Covid 19 -

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by cheap

I've read 97-99% recovery from C19. But as more people receive vaccinations, then the recovery rate should be orders of magnitude higher than 97-99%, after all the world has spent trillions to get back to a pre C19 steady-state.

You know what, I love wishful thinking, I mean it's a positive outlook wether referring to covid or starving kids in Africa!

But something is telling me that we will never get back to pre covid days, not in the percentage you quote, this damn thing is a world changer, it's not like a world war, or even the aids virus.

I believe this virus is here, by or through whatever means you think, or imagine, to force all of humanity to stop being so bloody selfish, so self centred and to force us to embrace change as a positive, or go back to our old selfish ways and suffer!

Just another opinion!


Cheers Billy.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

High numbers (both cases and deaths) for NSW today:

262 cases in NSW, five deaths overnight
NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian is speaking in Sydney.

She said from 107,000 tests, they detected 262 locally acquired cases.

Ms Berejiklian said at least 45 of those were infectious in the community.

On the deaths, the NSW Premier said three people in their 60s, one person in their 70s, one person in their 80s had died.

"We extend our deepest condolences to all of their loved ones at the tragic loss. It's horrible that, during this time, families are losing their loved ones," she said.

"I want to convey that unfortunately 4 out of those 5 people were not vaccinated at all and one person had 1 dose of AstraZeneca."

E (I should have added these stats, too, as I think they are significant) NSW CHO Kerry Chant says there are currently 290 COVID cases in hospital and 251 people in intensive care and 24 of whom require ventilation.


and

Hunter Valley to go into one-week lockdown from 5:00pm after positive cases
"The local government areas impacted are Newcastle, Lake Macquarie, Maitland, Port Stephens, Cessnock, Dungog, Singleton and Muswellbrook," Ms Berejiklian said.

"These community leaders and local leaders are being advised of this.

"That will commence at 5:00pm tonight and go until midnight next Thursday, so a week, similar to what occurred in Orange and hopefully, similar to what occurred in Orange, we'll see that community have their restrictions or stay at home lifted at that time.

"Having said that, I want to confirm the arrangements in the eight local government areas will be exactly the same as exists in Greater Sydney, including the Central Coast.

"So that means no school and the same stay at home provisions apply."

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I should have added these stats, too, as I think they are significant) NSW CHO Kerry Chant says there are currently 290 COVID cases in hospital and 251 people in intensive care and 24 of whom require ventilation.

Could be a typo. Covid live showing 290 in hospital, 51 in ICU, 24 on vent.

Vic could be going into another snap lock down. 3 mystery cases. But I reckon they might try put some tighter restrictions first - back to indoor caps.

[FTE217]

I do question or raise my eyebrow the High Numbers quote.
Not being a DH BUT whilst we have known the kind of numbers of abroad and to date since its begun we've been conditioned about 0 is the target, per capita anyone doing maths can see the huge divide. Were lucky I still think in the big picture.
Yes I'm so sorry we're having the reports of loss, no one wishs this.
Yep Delta is a b itch fast spreader therefore I'm actually surprised its not double/triple and more case's to date.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT August 4th 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

250 new cases for Australia and 2 deaths so the CMR is 2.642%.

2 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.903%.

The UK had a higher 28,936 cases yesterday and lower 119 deaths for a CMR of 2.184%.

A higher 123,455 new cases in the USA yesterday and higher 666 deaths sees CMR at 1.749%.

Other notable points:
North America passes 43M cases;
Asia passes 63M cases;
Brazil passes 20M cases;

Finland (872);
Eswatini (1,068);Martinique (3,880) - reporting weekly;
Guatemala (4,399) - the previous high on 18/7/20;
Morocco (10,603);
Malaysia (19,819);
Thailand (20,200); and
Iran (39,357) ... recorded new highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period and Namibia drops below.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by FTE217

I do question or raise my eyebrow the High Numbers quote.
Not being a DH BUT whilst we have known the kind of numbers of abroad and to date since its begun we've been conditioned about 0 is the target, per capita anyone doing maths can see the huge divide. Were lucky I still think in the big picture.
Yes I'm so sorry we're having the reports of loss, no one wishs this.
Yep Delta is a b itch fast spreader therefore I'm actually surprised its not double/triple and more case's to date.

Perhaps I should have said 'high(er) numbers', FTE. I wasn't trying to compare it to other parts of the world in what we have normalised as a high or low number, rather just making comment that the numbers are large for NSW.

I think that, at times, people are reading too much into the written word on these posts and trying to find a underlying motivation that doesn't exist. I certainly didn't intend it that way.

[shedcoupe]

My wife had a fundraiser for covid in Thailand.
People who live hand to mouth have no food and can’t pay the rent.
The hospital in her home town has no body bags.
Twenty thousand cases a day are reported and many more go unreported.
And people in Australia whine about not being able to go to the gym.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Perhaps I should have said 'high(er) numbers', FTE. I wasn't trying to compare it to other parts of the world in what we have normalised as a high or low number, rather just making comment that the numbers are large for NSW.

I think that, at times, people are reading too much into the written word on these posts and trying to find a underlying motivation that doesn't exist. I certainly didn't intend it that way.

Hey Fox, TBH not taking it the way you have read me as well mate so all good I'm fine.
My repsonse wasn't in any way directed to you.

I'm actually feeling just as I posted, the numbers are better than you'd expect when its all panic stations as its being reported and read by all.
Our city is the largest as we all know, div it by capita.
Sure we don't want it to outbreak out of control but staggering between 200/250 last number of days is not bad for now.
Not saying its fine and dandy live on but I'm sure you know what I mean.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Hey Fox, TBH not taking it the way you have read me as well mate so all good I'm fine.
My repsonse wasn't in any way directed to you.

I'm actually feeling just as I posted, the numbers are better than you'd expect when its all panic stations as its being reported and read by all.
Our city is the largest as we all know, div it by capita.
Sure we don't want it to outbreak out of control but staggering between 200/250 last number of days is not bad for now.
Not saying its fine and dandy live on but I'm sure you know what I mean.

My apologies, FTE. With your post being so close behind mine where I had used that term, I thought you were responding to it.

Glad we got that one sorted

[russellw]

Regardless of what our politically expedient masters might be telling us the WHO recommendation for AstraZeneca doses remains at an 8-12 week gap and they further state that "...longer dose intervals within the 8 to 12 weeks range are associated with greater vaccine efficacy."

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

My wife had a fundraiser for covid in Thailand.
People who live hand to mouth have no food and can’t pay the rent.
The hospital in her home town has no body bags.
Twenty thousand cases a day are reported and many more go unreported.
And people in Australia whine about not being able to go to the gym.

massive kudos to your wife mate....

Thats where I am coming from in my recent posts in the BIG picture.
Yes we all have concerns in own backyard but wow we've lost the plot.
We got roofs over our heads, food, water etc and we still complaining.
We can get tested, the jab.
Our homeless no disrepect live better than them for there is support there IF they wish for.
Tell that to those like in Thailand/India/Brazil etcetc

Our Feds/Prems and all round them have turned the general pop against each other as we've seen here.
My late Father inlaw of last year in his enthnic accent would say "propoganda !" god bless him.

[FairmontGS]

The COVID-19 'vaccine passport' is coming. Here's how it could work and how it's legal

Health authorities are currently pleading with Australians to get vaccinated if they can.

But at some point later this year, once vaccines have been widely available for some time, that approach is expected to shift.

Rather than just asking Australians to get a COVID-19 vaccine, governments will start treating the vaccinated differently to the unvaccinated in an effort to make being part of the first cohort much more attractive.

The vaccinated will have more freedoms. It might mean more freedom to travel, more freedom to get together with loved ones, or even to go to football matches and concerts.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-...work/100350778

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

The COVID-19 'vaccine passport' is coming. Here's how it could work and how it's legal



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-...work/100350778

I dont usually give two hoots about social experiments but this one will be a doozey.

Perhaps they can trial it in the ACT or TAS first?

[T3rminator]

Has anyone here, under 40, asked their GP's advice on AZ yet?

Mum had an appointment with her GP a few days ago. Just out of curiosity, I asked her if she could ask what her GP's view was on giving AZ to under 40s, since all these pollies give their own advice, but then CYA with "speak to your doctor". The GP's response was, "we leave it up to the individual to make their own choice". I take this to mean they are not confident enough to toe the under 40s line without some hessitancy? How much of these changes in medical policies is being driven by politics, certain individuals trying to save some face for the slow roll out? And people having a crack at govnur Young for giving her medical advice.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

First case in Tassie in over 12 months. Is it zilo that keeps telling us mainlanders to stay away from the Isle?

One new case in Tasmania
The first in more than 12 months.

A 31-year-old man who travelled from NSW via Victoria has tested positive. It was detected in quarantine but it is not yet confirmed whether he has Delta.

He arrived on Virgin 1364 on August 2 at 11:40am without having an endorsed pass, so was directed into hotel quarantine in Launceston and tested on August 3.

He left hotel quarantine and returned to NSW on August 4, before his test result was returned.

Contact tracers are at work.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Interesting press conference with Glady's yesterday. Asked twice if Bunning's should be open, refused to answer the question twice. I would of thought maybe for the Tradies, but the general public ?
Our local Bunning's car park was full yesterday and we are in lock down..........

That's kind of curious considering Bunnos had click'n'collect in Melbourne last year. Tradies could enter the store.

Why didn't the just roll it out in Sydney and Brisbane? They would have all the IT sorted and procedures could be just reused.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Has anyone here, under 40, asked their GP's advice on AZ yet?

Mum had an appointment with her GP a few days ago. Just out of curiosity, I asked her if she could ask what her GP's view was on giving AZ to under 40s, since all these pollies give their own advice, but then CYA with "speak to your doctor". The GP's response was, "we leave it up to the individual to make their own choice". I take this to mean they are not confident enough to toe the under 40s line without some hessitancy? How much of these changes in medical policies is being driven by politics, certain individuals trying to save some face for the slow roll out? And people having a crack at govnur Young for giving her medical advice.

You really think "make up your own mind" is not confident?

Surely "don't do it" would be not confident.

"Make up your own mind" to me from a medical professional is that it is such a small risk you can decide for yourself. I think you are drawing a very long bow to try to make this a Scomo thing.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Has anyone here, under 40, asked their GP's advice on AZ yet?

I got drilled by the consulting GP even as someone in the 50-60 bracket. I think more than anything else, he was seeking to impress the gravitas of a personal election upon me. He clearly stated the risks, pointing out that although the stats were small, they were real people comprising those reaction deaths and hospitalisations. He did not touch on age; it was implicit in his manner that he saw potential risk to me as not greatly different to someone in your age bracket.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Having trouble finding the original source to monitor for further comments and adjustments. Can you advise, please?

Search Rick Penney on facebook, I think he's on Linkedin too

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Wouldn't think this was a good thing to allow, unless under exceptional circumstances. Would only then potentially expose those involved in the transport industry, and other travellers, to a positive case?

Earlier, Director of Public Health Mark Veitch said leaving quarantine is allowed in order to leave the state.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

You really think "make up your own mind" is not confident?

Surely "don't do it" would be not confident.

"Make up your own mind" to me from a medical professional is that it is such a small risk you can decide for yourself. I think you are drawing a very long bow to try to make this a Scomo thing.

Well we all view things differently. If a GP had confidence, in my view they would be advising "yes, go ahead". "We are leaving it up to the individual to decide" is a very different response. And if they had said "no we don't recommend it", they would be seen to be hindering vaccination efforts?

Its been a while since I've visited a GP for meds, but if I recall, GPs would have no hesitation to hand you a prescription and say "here, take this" not "this med is available, up to you whether you want to take it". ATAGI was dragged kicking and screaming to come to the party, GPs were given indemnity by the Gov, I think you'd have to really have your head buried in the sand to think there has been no political influence.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

The COVID-19 'vaccine passport' is coming. Here's how it could work and how it's legal



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-...work/100350778

But no, you aren't forced to get it, while forcing people into it that don't want it by taking things away from them

Will be interesting to see the legal challenges. Does the UN charter not mention something along the lines of not forcing medical treatments on people? It's making people get it via a different direction.

What happens to the people who for various medical conditions cannot get it? Are they going to be blacklisted too?

Just today I saw a story of the Offspring drummer having to quit the band because he has julienne barre (or whatever it's called) and he has been advised by his doctors not to take it, cause it will flare up his condition. Which essentially makes it untenable for him to be able to play shows.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by cheap

Search Rick Penney on facebook, I think he's on Linkedin too

Unfortunately all hidden to non-members. Ah well.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Will be interesting to see the legal challenges. Does the UN charter not mention something along the lines of not forcing medical treatments on people? It's making people get it via a different direction.

What happens to the people who for various medical conditions cannot get it? Are they going to be blacklisted too?

The article did consider those questions.

Hang on, is that legal?

Probably, yes.

The pandemic has provided a striking demonstration of just how powerful some legislation is in overruling rights plenty of people have taken for granted.

In a public health crisis, governments can force people to stay onshore, to stay home and to avoid their friends and family under threat of heavy penalties.

And while mandatory vaccination has been explicitly ruled out many times, legal experts say governments can certainly make life difficult for the unvaccinated if they want to.

Associate professor Ron Levy from the Australian National University, who specialises in constitutional law, said any legal challenge to restricting the unvaccinated would face an uphill battle in the courts.

"There isn't too much that can be done, constitutionally speaking," he said.

He said the High Court would likely be averse to preventing governments acting on public health matters.

"It's practical, it's pragmatic, it's about balancing, and this is true not just during COVID but for decades now," he said.

"The court doesn't necessarily want to tie the hands of governments in addressing social problems of various kinds.

"And so in Australia in particular — this is quite different from other countries — our High Court has tended to give governments a free rein."

President of the NSW Council for Civil Liberties, Pauline Wright, said it was pretty clear cut: Australia's powerful health and biosecurity laws gave governments the right to do this sort of thing.

"At both state level and federal level, it is legal for the government to impose restrictions on people in times of health emergency," she said.

"So if a declaration is made, that there is a health emergency, then health orders are able to be declared.

"And we as citizens have to comply with that."

What if you can't get jabbed?

The policy aims to make life difficult for those resisting getting vaccinated in an effort to get inoculation rates up as high as possible, as quickly as possible.

But there are, of course, some who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons.

Work is underway to figure out how to ensure those who genuinely cannot get the vaccine are not subjected to undue restrictions through no choice of their own.

Exemptions could possibly look like those already in place under the "no jab, no pay" childcare policy, which sees childcare subsidies withheld from parents who do not vaccinate their young children.

Under that policy, medical exemptions are granted to those who have had anaphylactic reactions to vaccines, are significantly immunocompromised, or have natural immunity.

Ms Wright wants broader exemptions than that.

"If people do have genuine, religious or cultural reasons for not being vaccinated, then they shouldn't be restricted as a result of that," she said.

"As long as they can show that they've been tested and they are free of COVID-19.

"Because that's the other answer to it … either you've been vaccinated, or you can prove that you've been tested and you're COVID negative."

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by FTE217

IWe have all these testing stations here there everywhere, WHY not have the opportunity having the jab done there as well.
I know logistics maybe an issue BUT surely a system could be set up.

Seems like someone in the Vic government has been reading your posts, FTE

Get tested, get vaccinated pilot program in Melbourne
By state political reporter Richard Willingham

Students, their parents and teachers that are getting tested at a pop-up test site at Al-Taqwa College will also be offered a Pfizer vaccination as part of a pilot program.

A teacher at the school has tested positive and nearly 2,500 students and staff have been forced into isolation.

Education Minister James Merlino told question time the decision to delay second doses of Pfizer to six weeks allowed the government to trial the program.

"The program will provide the department with data regarding pop-up vaccination coverage which will inform future vaccine programs once more supply becomes available,'' he said.

[russellw]

Interestingly, a recent UK study has identified that a mix and match approach might offer better protection than using two doses of Astrazeneca alone - albeit not quite as much as two doses of Pfizer.

The trial, which involved 830 volunteers aged over 50, revealed that combining Pfizer and AstraZeneca jabs not only provides a "robust" immune response, it also produces more antibodies than two AstraZeneca shots.

Studying the different vaccine combinations when given four weeks apart, the trial also showed that the order of vaccine administration played a big role. A combination of AstraZeneca followed by Pfizer proved to be nearly as potent as two Pfizer vaccines. It produced the best T-cell responses, and also a higher antibody response than Pfizer followed by AstraZeneca.

Both mixed schedules induced higher antibodies than two doses of AstraZeneca vaccine, but the double Pfizer jab still had the highest antibody response.

Similar studies in Spain and Germany have also reported similar results.

There is also now better data on the effectiveness of the various vaccines against the Alpha and Delta variants as follows:

We found that the absolute difference in vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease with one dose of vaccine with the delta variant as compared with the alpha variant was approximately 12 to 19 percentage points.

However, the differences in vaccine effectiveness after two doses were small. This was the case for both the BNT162b2 (Pfizer) and ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (Astrazeneca) vaccines.

In the test-negative case–control analysis, the estimated vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease with the delta variant was approximately 36% with a single dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine and approximately 30% with a single dose of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine; the effectiveness was approximately 88% with two doses of the BNT162b2 vaccine and approximately 67% with two doses of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine.

Vaccine effectiveness against either variant was smaller after the receipt of two doses of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine than after the receipt of two doses of the BNT162b2 vaccine, a finding that is consistent with reported clinical trial findings.

US data - where Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson (Ad26.COV2) are in broad use has shown efficacy rates of ~67% for the J&J vaccine, 72-95% for Moderna and 64-96% percent for Pfizer. The UK data has the range for Pfizer at 88-96%.

Please note that the range figures for J&J/Pfizer are based on the effectiveness against getting infected (the first number) and the effectiveness against hospitalisation (the second number).

Executive Summary
A single dose of Pfizer only offers about 36% protection against infection, rising to 88% two weeks after the second dose.

A single dose of AstaZeneca offers 30% protection, rising to 67% after the second dose.

There isn't yet sufficient data on Moderna although early studies suggest the figures are similar to Pfizer.

The Johnson and Johnson vaccine is also short of data yet (it is a single dose vaccine) but early data suggests it is about 67% effective against the Delta variant.

Key take-away
Receiving the full regimen of two doses of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, such as Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna has also shown to be much more effective against the Delta variant than either of the non-replicating viral-vector vaccines (J&J and AstraZeneca) in terms of the Delta variant.

More about Delta
The current view is that the Delta (B.1.617.2) strain is:

- almost twice as transmissible as the original SARS-CoV-2 strain and 60-90% more transmissible than the Alpha (B.1.1.7) strain; and

- possibly more severe with an early Scottish study reporting the hospitalisation rate to be 2x higher than the Alpha variant and with some very different symptoms.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by tweeked

You really think "make up your own mind" is not confident?

Surely "don't do it" would be not confident.

"Make up your own mind" to me from a medical professional is that it is such a small risk you can decide for yourself. I think you are drawing a very long bow to try to make this a Scomo thing.

not just the above, T3, a GP won't especially in this case treat that question like handing out daily scripts, come on mate.
Your better than that by all your web reading and contacts providing you advise/intel.

Besides, as if you'd say yes or no to a patient that is just inquiring.
You wouldn't commit but say as he did.

Now for real my 2 sons @ 28/21 have had AZ jabs + fiance of eldest.
Just as CB quoted, your asked about your medical and family history, etcetc so they have an understanding of your background health as you'd expect.
Explained the minimal risks no diff to any vaccine or drug for we're all different.
All got the tick of approval and said yes please poke me !

Seriously man.

edit, and may I say, this was up to them, they are ****ed off, they want their lives back just as all of us.
Do we like having to do so ? ofcourse not but at the same time they the wife and I want to get all of us back on the road to freedom.
The more that do the better.
I won't hold anything towards who chose not to thats life BUT we who are putting the front foot forward are the ones opening the door imo.
We might have 3 heads by next decade but it didn't happen with the previous jabs/other decease's so the odds seem to be worth the shot or jab

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But no, you aren't forced to get it, while forcing people into it that don't want it by taking things away from them

Will be interesting to see the legal challenges. Does the UN charter not mention something along the lines of not forcing medical treatments on people? It's making people get it via a different direction.

What happens to the people who for various medical conditions cannot get it? Are they going to be blacklisted too?

Just today I saw a story of the Offspring drummer having to quit the band because he has julienne barre (or whatever it's called) and he has been advised by his doctors not to take it, cause it will flare up his condition. Which essentially makes it untenable for him to be able to play shows.

yeah but people were happy to ignore the UN about letting people come home too....

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Well we all view things differently. If a GP had confidence, in my view they would be advising "yes, go ahead". "We are leaving it up to the individual to decide" is a very different response. And if they had said "no we don't recommend it", they would be seen to be hindering vaccination efforts?

Its been a while since I've visited a GP for meds, but if I recall, GPs would have no hesitation to hand you a prescription and say "here, take this" not "this med is available, up to you whether you want to take it". ATAGI was dragged kicking and screaming to come to the party, GPs were given indemnity by the Gov, I think you'd have to really have your head buried in the sand to think there has been no political influence.

I know I said I would not comment anymore with this topic but on this occasion I will.
I don't know about your GP but the GP's I have had over the years sure do talk to me about the risks of some medicines that can have on you, in fact many times they warn me of some symptoms the medicines that can effect you so I guess there are some good GP's as there is quacks out there!
In my case with the AZ vaccination my doctor spelled out all the pro's and cons and left the decision for consent with me which I expected if I was to go ahead with it.
He never urged me to take AZ so no political influence IMO in which I decided to have it.

Cheers

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

ABC is calling a lockdown. Post says both Victoria and Melbourne.

ABC understands Victoria will go into lockdown
The ABC understands the State Government will soon announce Melbourne will go back into lockdown due to a growing cluster of covid cases in the city's west.

Eight new case were reported in the state today.

Details of what the lockdown will entail are expected later today.

Victorian presser expected between 4 and 5.

E: now this clarification
Clarification: Melbourne to go into lockdown
Sorry for the confusion, I've updated the previous post: Our information is that only Melbourne will go into lockdown. I'll keep you updated.