Covid 19 -

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

One of the top brass at work today mentioned that some sort of legislative change was put through a couple of days ago regarding whether private companies can query or mandate vaccination? Anyhow, this afternoon, said person started to gauge whether employees would mind to a) disclose whether they have been vaccinated b) work with someone who has not been vaccinated.

My response was No and No, provided that vulnerable employees, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, were allowed to work from home if they choose to.

Anyhow, I'm getting a feeling that they will go down the check and mandate route, including for visitors, purely because they are concerned that by not doing so, it would open them up to OH&S issues. Does this fall under the company's duty of care to ensure they have a safe working environment for employees?

This is a topic that all companies are going to have to deal with sooner or later.

And yes, we have had deaths of employees that caught covid at our north american offices during the initial outbreak, so the risk tolerance is pretty low.

I do believe SPC in Shepparton will be one such test case for company compulsory covid vaccination as they are demanding their workers should all be vaccinated by November this year, the unions oppose this move and it will be interesting to see if this impinges on your human rights.
I can see this being challenged on all fronts and so it should be.

[CoupeKing]

Time to wake up:

[oldel]

Rand Paul is a moron with a dumb name. If anyone should wake up it's people that listen to a word that tool says as he cares about no one except himself.

[b0son]

How can you trust a guy who's hair looks like he just got out of the shower?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I do believe SPC in Shepparton will be one such test case for company compulsory covid vaccination as they are demanding their workers should all be vaccinated by November this year, the unions oppose this move and it will be interesting to see if this impinges on your human rights.
I can see this being challenged on all fronts and so it should be.

This just another naiive opinion on what can legally be enforced in a workplace.

In the real world the unions will side with the employers and typically with the proviso that the employee gets the day off with full pay to attend the vaccination clinic and be covered by sickness benefits if the employee feels sick after it.

Everyone who works at a sewage farm has mandatory hepatitus shots as well as a cocktail of others as a condition of emplyment.

Nothing new in the workplace as far as i can tell.

I was a mere contractor at the Werribee sewage farm and had to comply.

And funnily..they are finding covid at waste water plants...

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I do believe SPC in Shepparton will be one such test case for company compulsory covid vaccination as they are demanding their workers should all be vaccinated by November this year, the unions oppose this move and it will be interesting to see if this impinges on your human rights.
I can see this being challenged on all fronts and so it should be.

there was a huge discussion going on on FB about SPC. I live in Shepp. I have also been actively involved in OHS since 2000. I pretty much shut the discussion down by quoting Section 21 of the Victorian OHS Act 2004 'Duties of employers to employees'. The opening statement from the OHS Act is "An employer must, so far as is reasonably practicable, provide and maintain for employees of the employer a working environment that is safe and without risks to health.

Penalty: 1800 penalty units for a natural person;
9000 penalty units for a body corporate."
A penalty Unit is currently worth $181.74 so you do the sums

I am not sure if the Unions will have much of a win against the OHS Act as their mainstay these days is about protecting the health and safety of the their members, and that is all SPC are trying to do as well

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by zilo

This just another naiive opinion on what can legally be enforced in a workplace.

In the real world the unions will side with the employers and typically with the proviso that the employee gets the day off with full pay to attend the vaccination clinic and be covered by sickness benefits if the employee feels sick after it.

Everyone who works at a sewage farm has mandatory hepatitus shots as well as a cocktail of others as a condition of emplyment.

Nothing new in the workplace as far as i can tell.

I was a mere contractor at the Werribee sewage farm and had to comply.

And funnily..they are finding covid at waste water plants...

That would have been a condition of agreement when you signed up to when taking employment which I understand but for companies to introduce this in your work place and to force on to you is another matter.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

there was a huge discussion going on on FB about SPC. I live in Shepp. I have also been actively involved in OHS since 2000. I pretty much shut the discussion down by quoting Section 21 of the Victorian OHS Act 2004 'Duties of employers to employees'. The opening statement from the OHS Act is "An employer must, so far as is reasonably practicable, provide and maintain for employees of the employer a working environment that is safe and without risks to health.

Penalty: 1800 penalty units for a natural person;
9000 penalty units for a body corporate."
A penalty Unit is currently worth $181.74 so you do the sums

I am not sure if the Unions will have much of a win against the OHS Act as their mainstay these days is about protecting the health and safety of the their members, and that is all SPC are trying to do as well

If that was the case Worksafe would be pushing this agenda onto all companies, I don't see any evidence of activity from worksafe behind this.
Like I said it will be interesting to see the outcome of SPC push for compulsory vaccination.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Itsme

That would have been a condition of agreement when you signed up to when taking employment which I understand but for companies to introduce this in your work place and to force on to you is another matter.

Originally Posted by Itsme

If that was the case Worksafe would be pushing this agenda onto all companies, I don't see any evidence of activity from worksafe behind this.
Like I said it will be interesting to see the outcome of SPC push for compulsory vaccination.

It will very much depend on the industry you are in, my employer (shipping) is going through the motions of introducing Mandatory Vaccinations for all of it's employees worldwide and I would say 90%+ of them (employees) realise the necessity of it and are in agreement.

My employer is not the only company in this industry applying it, not by a long shot.....it will be a requirement of employment very soon.......

No Ticket Jab, No Start....

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Time to wake up:

and his qualifications are . . . . . . . .

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by zilo

This just another naiive opinion on what can legally be enforced in a workplace.

In the real world the unions will side with the employers and typically with the proviso that the employee gets the day off with full pay to attend the vaccination clinic and be covered by sickness benefits if the employee feels sick after it.

Everyone who works at a sewage farm has mandatory hepatitus shots as well as a cocktail of others as a condition of emplyment.

Nothing new in the workplace as far as i can tell.

I was a mere contractor at the Werribee sewage farm and had to comply.

And funnily..they are finding covid at waste water plants...

one of my sons works at a 'waste treatment plant' and he has mandatory shots

people who work in abattoirs have mandatory shots

I was a ViCSES volunteer and I was required to have Hep B shots

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Itsme

If that was the case Worksafe would be pushing this agenda onto all companies, I don't see any evidence of activity from worksafe behind this.
Like I said it will be interesting to see the outcome of SPC push for compulsory vaccination.

ummm, you need to get out more, the Victorian Government has put in addtions to the OHS Act to include powers for WorkSafe inspectors to check 'COVID plans' at workplaces, those powers were just renewed a few weeks ago (see 2nd link below)

https://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-covid-19

https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/a...on-regulations

I have a WorkSafe Inspector coming in later, would you like to ask him something?

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

and his qualifications are . . . . . . . .

I understand his field is eye surgery.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by cheap

I understand his field is eye surgery.

oh, so a respiratory illness expert then

[cheap]

This can not be true, my lying eyes are playing tricks again…

COVID-19 treatment drug hydroxychloroquine soon to be supplied in Australia

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-a...c-c2fc229f9089

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by cheap

This can not be true, my lying eyes are playing tricks again…

COVID-19 treatment drug hydroxychloroquine soon to be supplied in Australia

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-a...c-c2fc229f9089

my wife has been on that drug for years and she still needed the Vaccine according to her Specialist

[Trevor 57]

an Australian Doctors opinion - probably one I would listen to


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBbfS00n7VE

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

One of the top brass at work today mentioned that some sort of legislative change was put through a couple of days ago regarding whether private companies can query or mandate vaccination? Anyhow, this afternoon, said person started to gauge whether employees would mind to a) disclose whether they have been vaccinated b) work with someone who has not been vaccinated.

My response was No and No, provided that vulnerable employees, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, were allowed to work from home if they choose to.

Anyhow, I'm getting a feeling that they will go down the check and mandate route, including for visitors, purely because they are concerned that by not doing so, it would open them up to OH&S issues. Does this fall under the company's duty of care to ensure they have a safe working environment for employees?

This is a topic that all companies are going to have to deal with sooner or later.

And yes, we have had deaths of employees that caught covid at our north american offices during the initial outbreak, so the risk tolerance is pretty low.

No new legislation, as none is needed. We often have "competing legislation" and this is one. Anti discrimination and Provide a safe workplace (as Trevor said). Morrison that Providing a safe workplace will be paramount (and so inferring that it will trump anti discrimination in this case) but it will always be tested in a court if necessary.

The union rep was interesting with SPC. He said we support the right to choice but we also support vaccination....leaving out the word "mandatory" It will be interesting how they run this one, since one of their prime objectives is providing safety in the workplace.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Time to wake up:

I actually agree somewhat with his stand.
Once we reach a stage which he is saying his staff is at (everyone who wants a shot has had one) Personal choice has to return, I do not want to wear a mask forever, and especially not for people who think that this is just a flu and chose not to be vaccinated. The world will become a smarter place after we open up thanks to Darwinism.

Having said that, the US is not at that point yet, they are still giving three quarters of a million doses a day. The fact that he doesn't push for vaccination in his video dumbs him down a lot.

[notNA]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Could of locked down earlier like she was advised.............

She didn't seem to have a problem telling other states what they should be doing..

"we are the gold standard of contact tracing"

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

ummm, you need to get out more, the Victorian Government has put in addtions to the OHS Act to include powers for WorkSafe inspectors to check 'COVID plans' at workplaces, those powers were just renewed a few weeks ago (see 2nd link below)

https://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-covid-19

https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/a...on-regulations

I have a WorkSafe Inspector coming in later, would you like to ask him something?

Trevor I don't see any reference in those documents stating compulsory vaccination for employees which is what is being discussed.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by tweeked

No new legislation, as none is needed. We often have "competing legislation" and this is one. Anti discrimination and Provide a safe workplace (as Trevor said). Morrison that Providing a safe workplace will be paramount (and so inferring that it will trump anti discrimination in this case) but it will always be tested in a court if necessary.

The union rep was interesting with SPC. He said we support the right to choice but we also support vaccination....leaving out the word "mandatory" It will be interesting how they run this one, since one of their prime objectives is providing safety in the workplace.

The real gripe from the union in regards to compusory vaccination is the time frame set by the company with vaccine availability and present restrictions that are stopping people in getting it in a timely manner.

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by cheap

This can not be true, my lying eyes are playing tricks again…

COVID-19 treatment drug hydroxychloroquine soon to be supplied in Australia

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-a...c-c2fc229f9089

That article was posted a year ago...

[hayseed]

Do the SPC employees have to get the jab on their own Time or SPC's Time.?

& If there are side effects which cause the Employee to miss Work, Will SPC still Pay them or make them use Sick Days..

[T3rminator]

Whilst it remains not mandated by law, I reckon market forces will influence certain sector's policies at the end of the day. If top talents decide to walk, impacting bottom line and bonuses, you can be pretty sure policies will get tweaked pretty quickly. It can go either way though.

Of the 6 people that were asked (that I know of), all did not have a problem disclosing their vaccination status, and only 1 had an issue with working with people who were un-vaccinated, even though she is fully vaccinated. She also felt very uncomfortable putting that view forward.

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

....... The opening statement from the OHS Act is "An employer must, so far as is reasonably practicable, provide and maintain for employees of the employer a working environment that is safe and without risks to health.

That's it. That is what is being "debated" at the moment and prompted the questions to be raised in the first place.

Originally Posted by zilo

.....I was a mere contractor at the Werribee sewage farm and had to comply.

You really know how to get around beautiful Melbourne......Ringwood, Frankston, Werribbee.....

[Cav]

MELBOURNE, Aug 11 (Reuters) - The Australian Olympic Committee (AOC) has labelled the government of South Australia "cruel and uncaring" for imposing an extra two-week quarantine for athletes returning via Sydney from the Tokyo Games, meaning a 28 days of quarantine in total.

The additional quarantine requirement for athletes currently isolating in Sydney, the capital of New South Wales, comes on top of the two weeks mandated for all arrivals from overseas.

"Due to the high risk of the Delta strain of COVID-19 in NSW, anyone travelling from New South Wales must undertake 14 days quarantine upon entry into South Australia," the state said in a statement.

The AOC said South Australia had turned down its request for an exemption from the extra quarantine period.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sp...ia-2021-08-11/

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Cav

MELBOURNE, Aug 11 (Reuters) - The Australian Olympic Committee (AOC) has labelled the government of South Australia "cruel and uncaring" for imposing an extra two-week quarantine for athletes returning via Sydney from the Tokyo Games, meaning a 28 days of quarantine in total.



The additional quarantine requirement for athletes currently isolating in Sydney, the capital of New South Wales, comes on top of the two weeks mandated for all arrivals from overseas.



"Due to the high risk of the Delta strain of COVID-19 in NSW, anyone travelling from New South Wales must undertake 14 days quarantine upon entry into South Australia," the state said in a statement.



The AOC said South Australia had turned down its request for an exemption from the extra quarantine period.



https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sp...ia-2021-08-11/

AOC screwed up. Why the fudge would the planes have gone to Sydney. There are so many mystery cases, the cause of spread is not known. Sensible thing would have been NT and quarantine at Howard Springs, then everyone go back to their home state.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

AOC screwed up. Why the fudge would the planes have gone to Sydney. There are so many mystery cases, the cause of spread is not known. Sensible thing would have been NT and quarantine at Howard Springs, then everyone go back to their home state.

The first athletes did go there. Plenty of interviews with them from that camp. Most probably a capacity issue.

[Citroënbender]

I thought it fair enough to treat the athletes no differently, it highlights some of the silliness.

Australia Post seem to be struggling in Sydney, I’ve had an Express Post article sitting in Chullora for two days.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I pretty much shut the discussion down by quoting Section 21 of the Victorian OHS Act 2004 'Duties of employers to employees'. The opening statement from the OHS Act is "An employer must, so far as is reasonably practicable, provide and maintain for employees of the employer a working environment that is safe and without risks to health.

Penalty: 1800 penalty units for a natural person;
9000 penalty units for a body corporate."
A penalty Unit is currently worth $181.74 so you do the sums

I am not sure if the Unions will have much of a win against the OHS Act as their mainstay these days is about protecting the health and safety of the their members, and that is all SPC are trying to do as well

I'm not sure why it stopped the conversation. I can only assume that people didn't actually read what you posted or perhaps may not have interpreted what you posted correctly. In my mind it should have provoked discussion, not stopped it.

What you've posted is correct, Trev. Where I differ in my opinion to you on the application of that clause is the bit that I've highlighted. It seems to me that your interpretation of what is reasonably practicable, with respect to COVID and a company's vaccination policy in relation to that, is that it is ok for the company to mandate vaccination for it's employees, as a way to protect their health and safety. I'm not quite so convinced on that. As others have pointed out, there is potentially other conflicting legislation and I think the way this will be tested is through the courts. I'm not convinced that it's a black or white situation, and, again as others have said, whether a compulsory vaccination program is considered reasonably practicable may be dependent upon the industry sector.

The other thing to consider is the legislation you have quoted is specially for Victoria and the rest of the country operate sunder different legislation (WHS Act as opposed to the OHS Act). I'm not au fait with the WHS Act (being in Vic) but I'd imagine it would have a similar broad-brush requirement.

And I'm looking at this from the perspective of a Health and Safety Rep, Trev.