Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > Non Ford Related Community Forums > The Bar

The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29-08-2021, 01:01 PM   #14251
Citroënbender
DIY Tragic
 
Citroënbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,512
Chairman's Award: Chairman's Award - Issue reason: Your outstanding contributions to this community have not gone unnoticed. IN my view you are a worthy recipient of the (rarely used) Chairman's Award. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

I’m intrigued by the comparatively low numbers of Covid tests in Victoria vs the numbers of tests in NSW. Is it a resourcing difference, or where they’re being conducted, or differing social motivations?
Citroënbender is online now  
Old 29-08-2021, 01:04 PM   #14252
.:4:.
Kicking back
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,695
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender View Post
NSW really kicking own goals today.
Yep, the wrong goals. Records for testing and jabs, not so bad, but the hatrick being cases... It almost baffles me with community transmission, nothings open. Is the supermarket now the local hangout? It doesnt defy logic per say as the current strain is proven to be more agressive and easier to transmit, but still.
.:4:. is online now  
This user likes this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 01:10 PM   #14253
russellw
Chairman & Administrator
Donating Member3
 
russellw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 1975
Posts: 107,328
Community Builder: In recognition of those who have helped build the AFF community. - Issue reason: Raptor: For Continued, and prolonged service to the wider Ford Community 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
I’m intrigued by the comparatively low numbers of Covid tests in Victoria vs the numbers of tests in NSW. Is it a resourcing difference, or where they’re being conducted, or differing social motivations?
I think that it's more related to their being less hotspots currently (and some of those bing less popualated as well) but I'd expect to see testing numbers increase as case numbers do. At the moment they are running about half those of NSW although it was 51,000 yesterday.
__________________

__________________________________________________

Observatio Facta Rotae



Last edited by russellw; 29-08-2021 at 01:17 PM.
russellw is offline  
This user likes this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 01:15 PM   #14254
tweeked
N/A all the way
 
tweeked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender View Post
I’m intrigued by the comparatively low numbers of Covid tests in Victoria vs the numbers of tests in NSW. Is it a resourcing difference, or where they’re being conducted, or differing social motivations?
Dont forget the mandated testing in LGA's for essential workers.
__________________
BA GT
5.88 litres of Modular Boss Powered Muscle
300++ RWKW N/A on 98 octane on any dyno, happy or sad, on any day, with any operator you choose - 12.39@115.5 full weight

tweeked is offline  
This user likes this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 01:41 PM   #14255
JasonACT
Away on leave
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: ACT
Posts: 1,735
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Outstanding work on the FG ICC issues. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The insane amount of work he has put into the Falcon FG ICC is unbelievable. He has shared everything he has done and made a great deal of it available to us all. He has definitely helped a great deal of us with no personal gains to himself. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsnake View Post
He's 81 years old?...you talk like he's a burden on you 24/7, he's just a lonely old man who does not understand what's happening with covid, cut him some slack eh
He's not lonely, he just doesn't want to be with her indoors (literally). Mostly because she tells him things he doesn't want to hear, like to leave me alone! Quote: "She's always telling me to just let you go about your business."

But even as I wrote my post, I knew there would be people reading on this forum that would see it in themselves and not like what it said.

Cheer up Billy, here's a picture of me..

JasonACT is offline  
4 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 01:44 PM   #14256
GasoLane
Former BTIKD
Donating Member2
 
GasoLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonACT View Post
Cheer up Billy, here's a picture of me..

image
According to this photo, this is you !


__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
GasoLane is offline  
3 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 02:05 PM   #14257
FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0
Donating Member
Donating Member3
 
FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Heading thru Hell (Corner)
Posts: 8,329
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Willingly providing technical info and documents, despite glitches. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Heard Jeroen say in the presser today that we now have an active case out in the east of the state, in Traralgon. He mentioned that the person contracted the virus at a funeral in Melbourne and that exposure in the community since the funeral has been minimal.

I'm hoping this doesn't become the next regional cluster.
__________________
Labels are for jars, not for people.

Life is a journey, not a destination.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White
Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread

Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor
FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0 is online now  
Old 29-08-2021, 02:07 PM   #14258
JasonACT
Away on leave
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: ACT
Posts: 1,735
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Outstanding work on the FG ICC issues. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The insane amount of work he has put into the Falcon FG ICC is unbelievable. He has shared everything he has done and made a great deal of it available to us all. He has definitely helped a great deal of us with no personal gains to himself. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Remember to always wear your mask when outside..

JasonACT is offline  
2 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 02:11 PM   #14259
T3rminator
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
T3rminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,930
Default Re: Covid 19 -

‘Nothing in our studies ever prepared us for this’: A nurse on Sydney’s frontline tells it like it is

https://www.theage.com.au/national/n...27-p58mha.html

Fitz: You sound angry at the lack of resources?

Rosentreter: We are. We have been trying to warn the government for a year. We need more nurses! They boast about the ventilators they’ve now got, but ventilators without nurses are useless. And in recent times we have lost a lot of highly trained nurses to working in the vaccination hubs. Those hubs are important, but the actual vaccinations don’t require the high level of skills that a lot of those nurses have. We need them back.

Fitz: Given how tightly stretched you all are, is it hard to see commentators and politicians say “COVID is no worse than a bad flu”?

Rosentreter: I am super cranky. We all are. People who say that simply have no idea. And there is no excuse for them saying that. How can they? We discuss them with disbelief. Beyond that, we feel disrespected. We are working around the clock to keep people alive, and they are comparing it to the flu?
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Rides (past and present)
Current: 2004 Ford Falcon 5.4L 3v Barra 220, Manual
Past: Mitsubishi Sigma (m), Toyota Seca (m), Toyota Seca SX (m), Toyota Vienta V6 (m), Toyota Soarer 4L v8 (a), BA XR8 ute (m), T3 TE50 (m), BMW Z4 (m)

AFF motto - If contrary views trigger, please use ignore button.
T3rminator is offline  
5 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 02:21 PM   #14260
Citroënbender
DIY Tragic
 
Citroënbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,512
Chairman's Award: Chairman's Award - Issue reason: Your outstanding contributions to this community have not gone unnoticed. IN my view you are a worthy recipient of the (rarely used) Chairman's Award. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonACT View Post
Remember to always wear your mask when outside..

image
I thought you were a hair farmer, as we said in the eighties? That picture looks more like Scott from Vehcor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T3
…Those hubs are important, but the actual vaccinations don’t require the high level of skills that a lot of those nurses have. We need them back.
I absolutely believe in this; why not enlist more pharmacies, vets (with a pet booking)?
Citroënbender is online now  
4 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 02:51 PM   #14261
JasonACT
Away on leave
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: ACT
Posts: 1,735
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Outstanding work on the FG ICC issues. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The insane amount of work he has put into the Falcon FG ICC is unbelievable. He has shared everything he has done and made a great deal of it available to us all. He has definitely helped a great deal of us with no personal gains to himself. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Unsurprisingly, I don't look much (if anything) like Jason Statham:



(Wouldn't complain if I did though.)
JasonACT is offline  
Old 29-08-2021, 02:52 PM   #14262
DJR-351
I am Groot
Donating Member3
 
DJR-351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender View Post

I absolutely believe in this; why not enlist more pharmacies, vets (with a pet booking)?
It's not hard at all, if i can do it anyone can
__________________
..
McLaren F1
Dick Johnson Racing

"Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe
DJR-351 is offline  
This user likes this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 04:52 PM   #14263
zilo
BANNED
 
zilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender View Post
I’m intrigued by the comparatively low numbers of Covid tests in Victoria vs the numbers of tests in NSW. Is it a resourcing difference, or where they’re being conducted, or differing social motivations?
It's a simple case of...If you want to get your numbers down...do less testing..


Hmmm...where have I heard that before?
__________________
Please press the "Like" button if you enjoy my posts.

(It's the red triangle with exclamation mark on the left)
zilo is offline  
2 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 07:04 PM   #14264
CyberWasp
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
CyberWasp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In Front of a Monitor
Posts: 1,660
Default Re: Covid 19 -

We are soon coming up to nearly 2 years on this virus and there is no official standard on masks.
I would guarantee half the problem is that most of the ones people are using are useless and ineffective.

__________________
2004 Mercury Silver Falcon XR6T - 5 Speed
2017 Platinum White Mustang GT - 6 Speed
2022 Blue Thai-Special for Daily Duties - Auto
CyberWasp is offline  
5 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 07:29 PM   #14265
tweeked
N/A all the way
 
tweeked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilo View Post
It's a simple case of...If you want to get your numbers down...do less testing..


Hmmm...where have I heard that before?
Yep simple.......but totally wrong, and can be disproved with facts and stats as usual. It was Vics busiest testing week yet with over 50,000 tests every day for the last 5 days.

NSW is just having a lot more close contacts, a lot more symptomatic people to test, plus a huge number of essential workers having to be tested just to work, even if they have no other reason to be tested. This will drop off in a big way when the vaccination requirements come into force on the 30th.
__________________
BA GT
5.88 litres of Modular Boss Powered Muscle
300++ RWKW N/A on 98 octane on any dyno, happy or sad, on any day, with any operator you choose - 12.39@115.5 full weight

tweeked is offline  
This user likes this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 08:06 PM   #14266
Metdevil
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 440
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberWasp View Post
We are soon coming up to nearly 2 years on this virus and there is no official standard on masks.
I would guarantee half the problem is that most of the ones people are using are useless and ineffective.
I mean, would it matter if there was a 'standard'? People would still refuse to wear them, they would claim that it was just more 'flip-flopping' on the stance of wearing masks (see: the The WHO originally didn't want people wearing masks argument).
Besides, I feel like the use of masks isn't necessary to create an impervious barrier between your mouth and nose and the killer virus than it is to just create a restrictive path from one person's face holes to another's.

In other words, it stops knuckle-draggers who don't know how to swallow from spitting all over you as they talk. We're not exactly aiming for surgery theatre levels of sanitation here.
Metdevil is offline  
5 users like this post:
Old 29-08-2021, 10:09 PM   #14267
Jack91
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Jack91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ballarat
Posts: 2,132
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Rang hotline today as we have secured a construction project in an aged care facility and will shortly start doing site measures, figured I'd get a reserve appointment no problem. No Bueno, do not qualify. Near 2 month wait.
What a ******* joke.
Jack91 is offline  
This user likes this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 05:08 AM   #14268
Citroënbender
DIY Tragic
 
Citroënbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,512
Chairman's Award: Chairman's Award - Issue reason: Your outstanding contributions to this community have not gone unnoticed. IN my view you are a worthy recipient of the (rarely used) Chairman's Award. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

The “2km from home” map developers have added NSW LGAs to their map.

https://2kmfromhome.com/5km

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack91
…Near 2 month wait. What a …joke.
I’m sorry it’s such a nationally divisive vaccination campaign. To be in a city pumping out the shots while other parts of Australia literally have weeks to wait - it’s not a good look.
Citroënbender is online now  
This user likes this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 07:09 AM   #14269
XR Martin
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
XR Martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 9,005
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Be proactive, ring your gp and others, and also try the pharmacist.
I also had a 2 month wait through the government, tried my gp and got in within a week.
I am now full vaxxed. (Pfizer)
__________________
2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170

2004 BA wagon RTV project.

1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red

1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired

1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project.
XR Martin is offline  
5 users like this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 08:13 AM   #14270
slowsnake
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 3,618
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Being proactive is fine, but there are some limitations you have to allow for, like hitting a brick wall at every turn, not your fault, like GP'S who care but don't know what to do, or can't get vaccine, some folk have a cruise through life others don't, you know I bet you that some folk on this forum don't know what "proactive" means!

I have never liked the term "knuckle draggers" to describe someone different to you or me, I know what it means but the knuckle dragger is oblivious to the put down.
But sadly they do exist, they just need educating, hard I know, but not everyone is as smart as the rest of us, I just hope this virus is fair to everyone, not selective to the rich or poor, seems certain stars of the screen get special privileges, sports stars too!

Hooroo, hoorah and hooray.......

Cheers Billy

Last edited by slowsnake; 30-08-2021 at 08:32 AM.
slowsnake is offline  
Old 30-08-2021, 08:23 AM   #14271
Citroënbender
DIY Tragic
 
Citroënbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,512
Chairman's Award: Chairman's Award - Issue reason: Your outstanding contributions to this community have not gone unnoticed. IN my view you are a worthy recipient of the (rarely used) Chairman's Award. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Could we - Australia - please have just a week where we say something other than “stay safe” to one another as a salutation on parting?
Citroënbender is online now  
5 users like this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 08:42 AM   #14272
Polyal
The 'Stihl' Man
Donating Member2
 
Polyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,586
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender View Post
Could we - Australia - please have just a week where we say something other than “stay safe” to one another as a salutation on parting?
Good luck kent?
__________________
  • 2017 Toyota Prado (work hack)
  • 2017 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
  • 2003 CL7 Honda Accord Euro R (JDM) - K20A 6MT
  • 1999 Lexus IS200 - 1G-FE Turbo 6MT
  • 1973 ZF Ford Fairlane
Polyal is offline  
3 users like this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 09:09 AM   #14273
slowsnake
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 3,618
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender View Post
Could we - Australia - please have just a week where we say something other than “stay safe” to one another as a salutation on parting?
" may the fleas from a thousand camels, find a resting place in your underpants "


Cheers Itchy brother!
slowsnake is offline  
3 users like this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 09:36 AM   #14274
zilo
BANNED
 
zilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeked View Post
Yep simple.......but totally wrong, and can be disproved with facts and stats as usual. .
Go ahead...

show me your facts and stats "as usual" that make the statement that, reducing testing numbers reduce the number of cases found, incorrect.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying you are wrong to say the statement is wrong which in my book makes you wrong.
__________________
Please press the "Like" button if you enjoy my posts.

(It's the red triangle with exclamation mark on the left)
zilo is offline  
Old 30-08-2021, 09:55 AM   #14275
cs123
Donating Member
Donating Member3
 
cs123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Morayfield
Posts: 28,139
Community Builder: In recognition of those who have helped build the AFF community. - Issue reason: Can't think of anyone more deserving. Russ Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: For all the technical support behind the scenes. Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Technical submission 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilo View Post
Go ahead...

show me your facts and stats "as usual" that make the statement that, reducing testing numbers reduce the number of cases found, incorrect.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying you are wrong to say the statement is wrong which in my book makes you wrong.
I was wondering about this too

If they are asking everyone in a LGA to be tested then they would get a specific rate of positive cases

If they are asking people with symptoms to get tested then they would get a different rate of positive cases, wouldn't they? Because previously people who were feeling fine would be tested and now it's only people who would feel sick
__________________
I love Holdens....
cs123 is online now  
3 users like this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 10:01 AM   #14276
Citroënbender
DIY Tragic
 
Citroënbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,512
Chairman's Award: Chairman's Award - Issue reason: Your outstanding contributions to this community have not gone unnoticed. IN my view you are a worthy recipient of the (rarely used) Chairman's Award. 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

I’d wondered about trying to “sweep” some of the Sydney areas of concern by asking people to get tested per sets of numerical addresses, eg if you lived in Fairfield and your residential address ended in 1 or 6, you ideally got tested. Not mandatory, but socially encouraged.
Citroënbender is online now  
Old 30-08-2021, 11:11 AM   #14277
tweeked
N/A all the way
 
tweeked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilo View Post
Go ahead...

show me your facts and stats "as usual" that make the statement that, reducing testing numbers reduce the number of cases found, incorrect.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying you are wrong to say the statement is wrong which in my book makes you wrong.
They are not reducing the tests in VIC, they are doing more than ever.

So your statement, while rhetorical and obviously correct in isolation by itself, is totally misleading and not relevant at all in the comment you are replying it to.

But I am sure your are already aware of this.
__________________
BA GT
5.88 litres of Modular Boss Powered Muscle
300++ RWKW N/A on 98 octane on any dyno, happy or sad, on any day, with any operator you choose - 12.39@115.5 full weight

tweeked is offline  
Old 30-08-2021, 11:22 AM   #14278
russellw
Chairman & Administrator
Donating Member3
 
russellw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 1975
Posts: 107,328
Community Builder: In recognition of those who have helped build the AFF community. - Issue reason: Raptor: For Continued, and prolonged service to the wider Ford Community 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT August 29th 2021.

Note
: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

1,305 new cases for Australia and 6 deaths so the CMR is 1.950%. NSW set a new record with 1,221 cases and the total is also a new record for Australia.

84 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.751%.

The UK had a higher 32,937 cases yesterday and lower 61 deaths for a CMR of 1.967%.

A lower 83,621 new cases in the USA yesterday and lower 672 deaths sees CMR at 1.651%.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)

Global cases pass 217M, the last 1M in 2 days;
Australia passes 50,000 cases;
Europe passes 55M cases;
Asia drops below the 90th percentile for the 10 day period;

Jamaica (929);
Australia (1,305); and
Sir Lanka (4,612)

... recorded new highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period while Indonesia drops below.
__________________

__________________________________________________

Observatio Facta Rotae


russellw is offline  
2 users like this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 01:40 PM   #14279
snap0964
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sth Coast NSW
Posts: 1,512
Default Re: Covid 19 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citroënbender View Post
Could we - Australia - please have just a week where we say something other than “stay safe” to one another as a salutation on parting?
Michael Conrad from Hill St Blues:
snap0964 is offline  
2 users like this post:
Old 30-08-2021, 02:20 PM   #14280
russellw
Chairman & Administrator
Donating Member3
 
russellw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 1975
Posts: 107,328
Community Builder: In recognition of those who have helped build the AFF community. - Issue reason: Raptor: For Continued, and prolonged service to the wider Ford Community 
Default Re: Covid 19 -

NSW reported a new record 1,290 cases so the 'actual' line remains above the predictive line and the 10-day average growth rate rises to 1.08 (up from 1.06).

__________________

__________________________________________________

Observatio Facta Rotae


russellw is offline  
2 users like this post:
Closed Thread


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 07:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL