Covid 19 -

[slowsnake]

This is an interesting article on Israel's Covid issues, hope the link works, too long to copy in full!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...alia/100442304

Not working, but a good read!

Cheers Billy

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I felt the article was not evenly represented; it focused on cases, not deaths.

They are averaging (on a seven day basis), something like 23 Covid mortalities per day. That would be ~70 deaths per day for our population.

That's true. And a fair observation.

However, for me, the take away points were:

"They completely dropped their guard," said Kim Mulholland, a paediatrician at the University of Melbourne and member of the WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts on Immunization.

"There were lots of big gatherings, religious meetings, and all sorts of events that happened in June, in the middle of summer."

Leading infectious diseases expert Sharon Lewin said without any measures to control the Delta variant, it was difficult to stop chains of transmission, even with reasonably high rates of vaccination.

"What we've learned from [Israel], and what's consistent with the modelling … is that even at 80 per cent, you need to have some public health measures in place to contain transmission," said Professor Lewin, director of The Doherty Institute.

My bold there, just to highlight that the comment was made by the Director of the organisation that is leading the Federal Government's direction wrt Covid.

Making things more challenging is the fact that 25 per cent of Israel's population is younger than 12, meaning only 68 per cent of its whole population is fully vaccinated — a threshold too low to achieve herd immunity.

To try and tackle the surge of new COVID-19 cases, Israel has reintroduced some restrictions, including caps on public gatherings and masks in certain settings.

Health authorities have also begun to administer booster doses.

So even though the hospitalisation rate, as you've pointed out, is low, Israel are still re-introducing measures to minimise infection rates.

That being said, Israeli authorities are concerned about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines waning over time.

The majority of people suffering severe illness are over the age of 60 and received the COVID-19 vaccine at least five months ago.

"Most of the elderly in Israel were vaccinated with Pfizer, three weeks apart, back in January and February," Professor Lewin said.

"That's the other factor that's at play here. It's not just whether or not you were vaccinated; the time from vaccination seems to be important too."

But there is some good news for those Aussies who are vaccinated in the article, too:

"In Israel, when you look at the age-adjusted numbers for vaccination, the chance of you being hospitalised if you're over 60 is reduced 40-fold if you're vaccinated compared to if you're unvaccinated."

She said the fact fully vaccinated people were still being hospitalised was a reflection of very high vaccination rates, and the fact that no vaccine is perfect.

"The benefit of vaccination is that it reduces your chance of hospitalisation and death by about 90 per cent, but it's not 100 per cent," Professor Lewin said.

"So there will still be people that get hospitalised and die, even if they're vaccinated."

Fortunately, the relative number of deaths from COVID-19 in Israel is much lower than it was during the country's second wave.

[russellw]

Looking at the Israeli data a bit closer, using the same 14-day lag period between cases and deaths we've used before we get:

The CMR for the 23,880 cases between July 17-31 is a 0.641%.
The CMR for the 66,767 cases from August 1-15 is about 0.550% or similar to the UK.

There's still 5 days to go in the next 15 day period (August 16-30) but the CMR so far is a little lower but I'll continue to track it.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

This is an interesting article on Israel's Covid issues, hope the link works, too long to copy in full!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...alia/100442304

Not working, but a good read!

Cheers Billy

Is this what you were trying to post?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...alia/100442304

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

This is an interesting article on Israel's Covid issues, hope the link works, too long to copy in full!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...alia/100442304

Not working, but a good read!

Cheers Billy

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Is this what you were trying to post?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...alia/100442304

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Slowsnake's comes up 404 on this screen

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Slowsnake's comes up 404 on this screen

Yeah, but it's the same article I posted earlier.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Yeah, but it's the same article I posted earlier.

Ah right, sorry. I missed that post.

[Polyal]

So looks like most regional LGA's in NSW are free, so I am trying to work out if I am in a LGA that is not in lockdown can I travel to another LGA that is not in lockdown?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So looks like most regional LGA's in NSW are free, so I am trying to work out if I am in a LGA that is not in lockdown can I travel to another LGA that is not in lockdown?

LGA Map part way down the page.


https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...2-e4701b12de57

[Citroënbender]

Yes, I understand that is the case.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Interesting story about Israel's struggle with Covid since opening up after achieving high vaccine rates and potential learnings for Australia. Those expecting a 'free for all' might be a little disappointed.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...alia/100442304

IMO you have to just open up fully and accept that some people will die. What's the point of living, if all you are going to do is sit in your house all day forever?

Survival of the fittest. Those that are vaxxed have done all they can do, the rest is up to luck of the draw. People die from the flu all the time and no one bats an eyelid. It's just the way it goes.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So looks like most regional LGA's in NSW are free, so I am trying to work out if I am in a LGA that is not in lockdown can I travel to another LGA that is not in lockdown?

This kind of implies you can, but it isn't direct and doesn't detail any conditions that might apply as to when you can travel in the first place:

If those travelling across regional NSW enter an area in lockdown, they must follow stay-at-home orders
Deputy premier John Barilaro says anyone who travels across the state and enters an area in lockdown must comply with stay-at-home orders for 14 days.

"So, for 14 days, those stay-at-home orders will apply. No different to if you come to Sydney now, those stay-at-home orders will apply.

"So, my message to the regions is limit travel, limit mobility. We still have risk. There's no plan that has no risk.

"But this is, as Dr Chant has touched on, in the hands of people. If we do the wrong things, if we take this as an opportunity to go beyond the rules, what will happen is you'll see more communities put back into lockdown. And I don't want to see that. I don't want to see that on any community."

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I felt the article was not evenly represented; it focused on cases, not deaths.

They are averaging (on a seven day basis), something like 23 Covid mortalities per day. That would be ~70 deaths per day for our population.

Yep. I looked at the death graph and it no where near what they experienced in Oct and Jan. However, still higher than what we are seeing in other parts of the world who are also through their vaccination. For example, UK, its like 10-15% of what they experienced at their peak.

Happy to take AZ as my booster

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

IMO you have to just open up fully and accept that some people will die. What's the point of living, if all you are going to do is sit in your house all day forever?

Survival of the fittest. Those that are vaxxed have done all they can do, the rest is up to luck of the draw. People die from the flu all the time and no one bats an eyelid. It's just the way it goes.

pretty much this, vaxxed or anti vax and otherwise.
Take care when were out there with the zombies.

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Accuses people of posting misinformation, while posting misinformation



https://medicalrepublic.com.au/liveb...gust2021/51354

Breakthrough infections with Delta in fully vaccinated individuals show the same viral loads as infections in unvaccinated individuals, researchers have found.
The unpublished paper from Oxford University also suggests that the AstraZeneca vaccine offers slightly longer-lasting protection against the Delta variant.
The study prospectively tested 740,000 people – around half in the first Alpha wave of the pandemic and half in the latest Delta wave – regularly with RT-PCR on a preset schedule, regardless of symptoms or vaccination status.
This revealed that in the second wave, which was dominated by the Delta variant, peak viral loads in vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections were similar to those seen in unvaccinated individuals.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....31.21261387v1

We find no difference in viral loads when comparing unvaccinated individuals to those who have vaccine “breakthrough” infections. Furthermore, individuals with vaccine breakthrough infections frequently test positive with viral loads consistent with the ability to shed infectious viruses.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...V-2-delta.aspx

A US-based study has recently compared the viral load in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals who have been infected with the delta variant of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2).


The findings reveal that vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals exhibit similar viral loads following delta infection and that vaccine breakthrough cases have the potential to transmit infection to others.




At least do some research and stop watching the project

If you'd read the link that I provided, you would have seen that I was referring to your statement about the Mu variant. This part in particular:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This vaccine is not very effective at all. Now the Mu variant is coming on song, and it doesn't look like it does much against it, so it's even worse.

But also, all of those links you have provided also have a common theme: "Obtaining two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against the COVID-19 Delta variant of concern dominant in the UK today."

In other words, your statement about the effectiveness of the vaccine is wrong.

All these studies mean is that the vaccine still protects you against the disease, you're just still capable of carrying the virus so don't sneeze on people...

"Nonetheless, the finding of high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated individuals has important implications for risk assessment and mitigation. Emerging data suggest that circulation of delta may be associated with reduced vaccine effectiveness against any symptomatic disease, but protection against severe disease and death is still robust [12]. However, risk disinhibition may lead vaccinated people to increase behaviors that expose them to SARS-CoV-2 infection, and individuals with breakthrough infections could serve as sources of onward transmission to others."


Also, "Just decreases your chances of getting sick" isn't the con you think it is...

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

IMO you have to just open up fully and accept that some people will die. What's the point of living, if all you are going to do is sit in your house all day forever?

Survival of the fittest. Those that are vaxxed have done all they can do, the rest is up to luck of the draw. People die from the flu all the time and no one bats an eyelid. It's just the way it goes.

Heard yesterday 60 something people have died from drowning just in Victoria this year and we are only into September.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Heard yesterday 60 something people have died from drowning just in Victoria this year and we are only into September.

Swimming season’s coming up. Better lock down and stay safe.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Swimming season’s coming up. Better lock down and stay safe.

Thats a lot considering Victoria doesn't have as many inland waterways like NSW.
Reckon there will be some angry Vic boat owners who will be not allowed to launch into the Murray this season.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Thats a lot considering Victoria doesn't have as many inland waterways like NSW.
Reckon there will be some angry Vic boat owners who will be not allowed to launch into the Murray this season.

umm, what is Victoria largest river

Ever heard of dams, reservoirs and irrigation channels, and of course there is that killer called the Murray River and the biggest killer of all, called 'backyard swimming pools'

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

umm, what is Victoria largest river

Ever heard of dams, reservoirs and irrigation channels, and of course there is that killer called the Murray River

The Murray isn't in Victoria Trev. The border is the southern shore. Considering the story was about Victorian's drowning in rivers and the sea.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

The Murray isn't in Victoria Trev. The border is the southern shore. Considering the story was about Victorian's drowning in rivers and the sea.

I edited my response while you were responding

I know the Murray is NSW, but **** loads of Victorians drown in it and they are classed as Victorian drownings, not NSW drownings

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

umm, what is Victoria largest river

Ever heard of dams, reservoirs and irrigation channels, and of course there is that killer called the Murray River and the biggest killer of all, called 'backyard swimming pools'

Longest river in Vic is the Goulburn. Does that count as 'largest'?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I edited my response while you were responding

I know the Murray is NSW, but **** loads of Victorians drown in it and they are classed as Victorian drownings, not NSW drownings

Anyone else missed the point I was quoting from Bossxr8 comment.....anyway back to Covid.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Metdevil

If you'd read the link that I provided, you would have seen that I was referring to your statement about the Mu variant. This part in particular:



But also, all of those links you have provided also have a common theme: "Obtaining two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against the COVID-19 Delta variant of concern dominant in the UK today."

In other words, your statement about the effectiveness of the vaccine is wrong.

All these studies mean is that the vaccine still protects you against the disease, you're just still capable of carrying the virus so don't sneeze on people...

"Nonetheless, the finding of high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated individuals has important implications for risk assessment and mitigation. Emerging data suggest that circulation of delta may be associated with reduced vaccine effectiveness against any symptomatic disease, but protection against severe disease and death is still robust [12]. However, risk disinhibition may lead vaccinated people to increase behaviors that expose them to SARS-CoV-2 infection, and individuals with breakthrough infections could serve as sources of onward transmission to others."


Also, "Just decreases your chances of getting sick" isn't the con you think it is...

Your point was that viral loads of people vaxxed is less than un-vaxxed. I proved that wrong. You can twist your words as much as you want though. You were wrong.

Mu isn't even here yet. It's the delta that is here. The one in the studies I posted.

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by five 7

Really.....maybe you need to spend a bit more time on the old google...hate to think you were spreading misinformation.

https://www.monash.edu/discovery-ins...ls-in-48-hours

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/

Neither of those links are studies, they're just saying that 'maybe we should look into it'.

In an optimistic scenario, new drug dosage forms may not only contribute to mitigate SARS-CoV-2 infection, but also be effective against other emerging viral diseases.

Ivermectin therefore warrants further investigation for possible benefits in humans.

Despite this promise, the antiviral activity of ivermectin has not been consistently proven in vivo.

But also...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....26.21250420v1

Ivermectin was not associated with reduced mortality (logRR: 0.89, 95% CI 0.09 to 1.70, p = 0.04, I2= 84.7%), or reduced patient recovery (logRR 5.52, 95% CI -24.36 to 35.4, p = 0.51, I2 = 92.6%).

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2777389

Among adults with mild COVID-19, a 5-day course of ivermectin, compared with placebo, did not significantly improve the time to resolution of symptoms. The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/

we have to be concerned with putative important adverse effects that this drug could produce at the higher than usual doses that would be necessary for treating COVID-19 patients.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...in-covid-drug/

But many scientists warned that it would be impossible for humans to take high enough doses of the drug to produce an antiviral effect.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/faq-20485627

Ivermectin isn't a drug for treating viruses

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...py/ivermectin/

Ivermectin is not approved by the FDA for the treatment of any viral infection.

studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans.

Like I said, just two minutes and you'd find that Ivermectin is not an anti-viral drug...

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Your point was that viral loads of people vaxxed is less than un-vaxxed. I proved that wrong. You can twist your words as much as you want though. You were wrong.

Mu isn't even here yet. It's the delta that is here. The one in the studies I posted.

I never said that. Feel free to quote me. The link I provided was specifically about the Mu variant (B.1.621).

Also, Mu has come and gone, so wrong again. It peaked globally mid-July, it's still present in Columbia so I guess there's still a chance that it could come back but it had its time between April and August and doesn't seem to have taken hold anywhere else...

https://outbreak.info/situation-repo...cted=Worldwide

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

This kind of implies you can, but it isn't direct and doesn't detail any conditions that might apply as to when you can travel in the first place:

If those travelling across regional NSW enter an area in lockdown, they must follow stay-at-home orders
Deputy premier John Barilaro says anyone who travels across the state and enters an area in lockdown must comply with stay-at-home orders for 14 days.

"So, for 14 days, those stay-at-home orders will apply. No different to if you come to Sydney now, those stay-at-home orders will apply.

"So, my message to the regions is limit travel, limit mobility. We still have risk. There's no plan that has no risk.

"But this is, as Dr Chant has touched on, in the hands of people. If we do the wrong things, if we take this as an opportunity to go beyond the rules, what will happen is you'll see more communities put back into lockdown. And I don't want to see that. I don't want to see that on any community."

LOL get this. My LGA is now free, a 45min drive for me to go to work and guess what, I am in an LGA that has 1! case and is still in lockdown.....

So my work is unsure WTF to do, because technically 50% of thr workforce live in a free LGA but work in a lockdown LGA even though we are remote and on a secured site.

What a cluster, I going to the coast.

[Ben73]

Congrats to the vaccine stealers of Sydney with their upcoming freedom.
I’ll be a filthy second class citizen for the next 16 weeks until my second appointment.
Do you have to wait 2 weeks after your second vaccine to be considered “vaccinated”?
Maybe 18 weeks of living like scum in this authoritarian hellhole

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Heard yesterday 60 something people have died from drowning just in Victoria this year and we are only into September.

15 Australians die everyday due to air pollution. That’s 5400 a year.

I’ve never seen any government take reducing air pollution seriously.