My massive impact - A real life tale of small car vs large car safety.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble about small car safety ( although these stories here are great results)..... But the FG falcon was independently tested as the SAFEST car you could buy out of ALL cars on the aus used market.(sorry I've mentioned this quite a few times......but hey....it's a safety thing and I'm proud OUR FG falcons are so safe). And not just some silly five star rubbish!

Good too see everyone safe above!

So it safer then bigger cars like Prado's and Patrols?

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble about small car safety ( although these stories here are great results)..... But the FG falcon was independently tested as the SAFEST car you could buy out of ALL cars on the aus used market.(sorry I've mentioned this quite a few times......but hey....it's a safety thing and I'm proud OUR FG falcons are so safe). And not just some silly five star rubbish!

Good too see everyone safe above!

When it was new it wasn't the safest car on the market, its a great car but compared to the passive and active safety in the high end cars the FG and similar other Aussie offerings are found lacking. So how can it be tested as safest, who did the testing, what cars did they exclude, what did they compare it too, were there no safer cars on the second hand market at the time??? did they run one into a barina in an independent back yard test and conclude that big good small bad?

A link or its not true...

JP

[Wretched]

I think this is the reference, but i think his safest vehicle on sale is a little optimistic clouded by a little bias and misinterpretation of the article.
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...fest_used_cars

ORD'S Falcon FG is among the safest used vehicles on the road, a major study has found.

The FG is one of 19 vehicles recommended in the RACQ's annual Used Car Safety Ratings. But the list is dominated by small imported cars. Five made the Safe Pick list: Honda Civic, Peugeot 307, Volvo S40/V40, Volkswagen's Golf/Bora and the Golf/Jetta stablemates.

"This shatters the myth that big cars are safe," RACQ executive manager vehicle technologies Steve Spalding says. "Some (large cars) don't have a particularly high rating, while some of the smaller stuff can outperform them. What it means is you can pick a safe car that is still small and economical to run."

....

[Nikked]

'Sif bring truth into an argument...

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I think this is the reference, but i think his safest vehicle on sale is a little optimistic clouded by a little bias and misinterpretation of the article.
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...fest_used_cars

If this is the quoted article wait for the 'Universities know nothing about anything they should get out and get real world experience and cut their funding' claims as the researchers have obviously got a bias towards finding a result that doesn't exist malarchy.
HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAH and some more hAHAHAHAh

JhahahhahhahhahhP

[mik]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Ask a similar question...'T' boning accounts for over 1/4 (25%) of crashes according to some studies and even WRC cars cant withstand a +45 Km/h crash into a tree sideways?

We all take our chances, sometimes even the biggest and best engineered car wont save you.
Ive driven near on 1 million Km's mostly in small cars and I have never died, By the scientific reckoning displayed within this and many similar threads that would mean either:
a) small cars avoid crashes better than big cars as many other posters claim they survived the big one because their car was big
b) Small cars are as safe as big cars when they do get hit just the right way.
Whereas the likelihood is Ive been and continue to be lucky or observant and capable of avoiding any incident, would I have been as capable in a big car, would the car be as nimble, braking turning avoiding?
who knows but c.
onjecture has no place in the argument???

JP

Very true mate , and of course where we live , the roads we drive on and how we drive can also be major factors in our accident/driving history, as for nimble cars be it big or small I can certainly say beat my up 13 year old xr6 with light,fast ratio steering is certainly nimble for a family sedan and without any doubt in my mind saved my skin from some big hits over the nearly 10 years I've had it.
indeed conjecture doesn't add a lot to argument, but lifes experience is probably worth something.
I'd be happy to change my view on small cars if I saw a bit more crash testing in areas that it doesn't seem to be done for the general publics eyes, until that day comes the star rating to me probably still has some merit, but is still lacking especially in respect to small cars imo.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble about small car safety ( although these stories here are great results)..... But the FG falcon was independently tested as the SAFEST car you could buy out of ALL cars on the aus used market.(sorry I've mentioned this quite a few times......but hey....it's a safety thing and I'm proud OUR FG falcons are so safe). And not just some silly five star rubbish!

Good too see everyone safe above!

Are you sure you don't mean safest FoA car? Atleast when it was introduced. I can't see how it would be safer than some of the big name euro's.

The combination of outstanding passive and active safety features, along with state-of-the-art crash simulation and a comprehensive physical crash test program has delivered the safest vehicle ever developed by Ford in Australia.

http://www.pressportal.com.au/news/1...008-04-11.html

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Never knew there were so many car crash experts on the forum. Size isn't the be all and end all in these situations, smarter engineering can make up for size discrepancy.

You think?

So, if you’re the expert, tell me how this 5 star rated Toyota Hilux would have fared if I chose not to avoid him in his little brake checking exercise.



Who will be the safest here? Let’s see…
5 star rated Toyota Hilux dual cab.
Zero rated Kenworth K104 B Double.

Easy, the Hilux because it has 5 stars, right?

Originally Posted by chevypower

Why does it have to be one or the other, why can't it be bigger AND smarter? Because when all else is equal (including technology), the bigger and heavier vehicle will prevail.

People should listen to this man.

[UberKnee]

So we should all just drive Kenworth trucks then...

Of course if you're talking about something thats 20 times the weight of the car its hitting size is all that matters. But if you're only talking about 500kg difference at most size isn't this unstoppable, unmatchable factor that will see a FG Falcon plough through a hatchback every single time.

Use a little logic here before you pat yourself on the back.

[You Yangs]

Seeing as though we are showing crash pics heres mine. Bloke in the Commo SS lost control and presented me with a wall of ute across my lane.https://www.facebook.com/#!/media/se...1258564&type=3

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

So we should all just drive Kenworth trucks then...

Of course if you're talking about something thats 20 times the weight of the car its hitting size is all that matters. But if you're only talking about 500kg difference at most size isn't this unstoppable, unmatchable factor that will see a FG Falcon plough through a hatchback every single time.

Use a little logic here before you pat yourself on the back.

Agree with this comment, the B.S. is starting to show on this topic.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I think this is the reference, but i think his safest vehicle on sale is a little optimistic clouded by a little bias and misinterpretation of the article.
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...fest_used_cars

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/521...fest-used-cars

you know, im sick to death of ******* like you on here abusing me for ZERO reason.
I made a simple statement....and now when questioned ive supplied the real article with the facts. so feel free take your own misinterpreted cloudy optimism somewhere else.

The test involved over 180 of the most popular sold models and ...YES....it includes cars and 4wds.....everything from ford transit vans....to mercs pajeros and Suzuki swifts.

And they where tested in real world crash and injury conditions including statistics from police crash investigations and so on.
feel free to read the article if you want the real facts....don't take my word for it

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/521...fest-used-cars

you know, im sick to death of ******* like you on here abusing me for ZERO reason.

Abuse?

No, people just sifted through what you posted compared to what the full story was.


Yes, FG falcon is/was the Safest used car you could buy...but you seemed to think that was good enough to attack sound theory that others have discussed in a proper manner. And all someone did is link the same story, from a different publication from the same source as your article, with the same basic information...


But you discredit them?


From your linked article...

The 19 used vehicles that earned the Safe Pick rating ranged in size from smaller hatchbacks to larger SUVs, challenging the myth that only larger cars can be safe

No one is saying Large cars are un-safe, no one is saying small cars are the safest...

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/521...fest-used-cars

you know, im sick to death of ******* like you on here abusing me for ZERO reason.
I made a simple statement....and now when questioned ive supplied the real article with the facts. so feel free take your own misinterpreted cloudy optimism somewhere else.

The test involved over 180 of the most popular sold models and ...YES....it includes cars and 4wds.....everything from ford transit vans....to mercs pajeros and Suzuki swifts.

And they where tested in real world crash and injury conditions including statistics from police crash investigations and so on.
feel free to read the article if you want the real facts....don't take my word for it

Are you able to participate in a discussion without resorting to name calling? It is far better to show up someone not by name calling but by intelligence. You might earn some respect that way.

Now I looked at your article, funnily enough it is reporting the same stats as the one I posted but with variations on the wording and fair enough too.

You see the stats your quoting come from the below link.
http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/R...ating-2011.pdf

Here it appears for the large car segment in 2011, both the Falcon and Camry scored top of the class.

Now from 2013 stats
http://www.mynrma.com.au/media/UCSR_2013_1.pdf

The BMW E38 5 series, the FG Falcon, the WL/WK Statesman, the W210 Merc E-Class, Nissan Maxima and Toyota Aurion all score highly.

So in conclusion yes, the FG is among the safest used cars assessed by Monash University in various circumstances (mostly correlated from police accident reports and various state accident commission statistics)

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/521...fest-used-cars

you know, im sick to death of ******* like you on here abusing me for ZERO reason.
I made a simple statement....and now when questioned ive supplied the real article with the facts. so feel free take your own misinterpreted cloudy optimism somewhere else.

The test involved over 180 of the most popular sold models and ...YES....it includes cars and 4wds.....everything from ford transit vans....to mercs pajeros and Suzuki swifts.

And they where tested in real world crash and injury conditions including statistics from police crash investigations and so on.
feel free to read the article if you want the real facts....don't take my word for it

Like any article , it is open to interpretation . Yes the FG was classed as the safest and so was the camry and the magna . all earlier builds and a lot cheaper to buy now and run than an FG , which these days for a lot of people is the bottom line .
I have to admit I was surprised where they classed a mazda 2 . Just sold my mums 2007 model which falls under the articles one of the "safest car " for class and ummm it didn't inspire a feeling of a long and pain free life .
So there you go , each to there own and it doesn't matter what you drive there is always something bigger out there to ruin your day if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time .

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/521...fest-used-cars

you know, im sick to death of ******* like you on here abusing me for ZERO reason.
I made a simple statement....and now when questioned ive supplied the real article with the facts. so feel free take your own misinterpreted cloudy optimism somewhere else.

The test involved over 180 of the most popular sold models and ...YES....it includes cars and 4wds.....everything from ford transit vans....to mercs pajeros and Suzuki swifts.

And they where tested in real world crash and injury conditions including statistics from police crash investigations and so on.
feel free to read the article if you want the real facts....don't take my word for it

Your quote

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble about small car safety ( although these stories here are great results)..... But the FG falcon was independently tested as the SAFEST car you could buy out of ALL cars on the aus used market.(sorry I've mentioned this quite a few times......but hey....it's a safety thing and I'm proud OUR FG falcons are so safe). And not just some silly five star rubbish!

The FG is not the safest but is one of the safest in it size class & was it not 5 star ANCAP rated to prove the statistics they now have on these cars.

[chrisandsharon]

Something every Kenworth is scared of.

[chrisandsharon]

Sorry I meant to show his big brother

Personally the way I see it is the variables involved in an accident are infinite. I'm just happy to be driving a 5 star vehicle, if anything does go wrong I've got half a chance. I did a lap around oz in a short wheel base BJ42, if I had any sort of accident in that I knew that was it, no second chances in those things.............you have a serious accident in a 40 series there's a good chance you'll die.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Are you able to participate in a discussion without resorting to name calling? It is far better to show up someone not by name calling but by intelligence. You might earn some respect that way.

Now I looked at your article, funnily enough it is reporting the same stats as the one I posted but with variations on the wording and fair enough too.

You see the stats your quoting come from the below link.
http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/R...ating-2011.pdf

Here it appears for the large car segment in 2011, both the Falcon and Camry scored top of the class.

Now from 2013 stats
http://www.mynrma.com.au/media/UCSR_2013_1.pdf

The BMW E38 5 series, the FG Falcon, the WL/WK Statesman, the W210 Merc E-Class, Nissan Maxima and Toyota Aurion all score highly.

So in conclusion yes, the FG is among the safest used cars assessed by Monash University in various circumstances (mostly correlated from police accident reports and various state accident commission statistics)

The Mitsubishi 380 also consistently scores 5 stars in the used car ratings on all those tests.

Australian car makers can make cars just as safe as the imports.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Abuse?

No, people just sifted through what you posted compared to what the full story was.


Yes, FG falcon is/was the Safest used car you could buy...but you seemed to think that was good enough to attack sound theory that others have discussed in a proper manner. And all someone did is link the same story, from a different publication from the same source as your article, with the same basic information...


But you discredit them?


From your linked article...

wow you and wretched are delusional now. The article yous posted is a MAJOR gloss over. My link is the actual test results....where if you actually READ it you would find quoted as I mentioned.....
"The study showed that the level of protection in the different categories of vehicles studied varied widely. The risk of injury or death was 8.2 times higher in the worst rated vehicle, the 1996 Daihatsu Mira, than in the best vehicle, the 2008-2009 FG Falcon."

so yes I feel it is abuse as you are the ones who are incorrect and basing your comments on these facts....along with the fact you degrade my initial comments without having even looked at the facts.

so please read the facts before degrading someones comments....or at the bare minimum have the descency to read the facts you ask for after not believing them in the first place and demanding sources!!!

and TRUBLU...I clearly said "WAS" not is the safest.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

Sorry I meant to show his big brother

Personally the way I see it is the variables involved in an accident are infinite. I'm just happy to be driving a 5 star vehicle, if anything does go wrong I've got half a chance. I did a lap around oz in a short wheel base BJ42, if I had any sort of accident in that I knew that was it, no second chances in those things.............you have a serious accident in a 40 series there's a good chance you'll die.

exactly...some people think suvs and 4wds are safer simply because they are bigger or sit higher. That's why 5 star ratings are reasonably useless as they only take into account the driver(maybe the front seats..not totally sure)
the independent test linked above tests for all occupants.....and not just frontal crashes. It gathers crash and injury info and calculates all these things to find a FAR more REAL world crash rating. Obviously cars that don't sell well will be hard to review tho in this format....but it certainly helps the masses.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

wow you and wretched are delusional now.

The article yous posted is a MAJOR gloss over. My link is the actual test results....where if you actually READ it you would find quoted as I mentioned.....


"The study showed that the level of protection in the different categories of vehicles studied varied widely. The risk of injury or death was 8.2 times higher in the worst rated vehicle, the 1996 Daihatsu Mira, than in the best vehicle, the 2008-2009 FG Falcon."

.

So a car that is 10 years newer is safer? Didn't see that coming!


Fact of the matter is, you exact article still has this written in it, "challenging the myth that only larger cars can be safe" and that's what this whole thread is about.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

exactly...some people think suvs and 4wds are safer simply because they are bigger or sit higher. That's why 5 star ratings are reasonably useless as they only take into account the driver(maybe the front seats..not totally sure)
the independent test linked above tests for all occupants.....and not just frontal crashes. It gathers crash and injury info and calculates all these things to find a FAR more REAL world crash rating. Obviously cars that don't sell well will be hard to review tho in this format....but it certainly helps the masses.

The 5 star ratings are reasonably useless which is your words & I want to buy a new model just released from a few choices available from different manufacturers.

How do I go about deciding which I hope is the safest for me since there will be no accident statistics available?

Do I buy big? Do I buy Brand name? the questions can keeps rolling on!

This is why the ANCAP Rating was created, maybe not the best solution but better than no information at all

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by trublu

The 5 star ratings are reasonably useless which is your words & I want to buy a new model just released from a few choices available from different manufacturers.

How do I go about deciding which I hope is the safest for me since there will be no accident statistics available?

Do I buy big? Do I buy Brand name? the questions can keeps rolling on!

This is why the ANCAP Rating was created, maybe not the best solution but better than no information at all

Don't believe ME then, look it up yourself......5 star ratings are very easy for new cars to reach these days. If you look at the difference between what ancap asks for....and the safety/crash results from the tests I quoted above...you will be amazed at how simple and...like I said....basically useless a ancap rating actually is.
I'll even give you a tip.....ancap doesn't recognize rear passengers for their rating.(if you still think its great then keep on reading)

Some of the worst crash/injury results are from cars with supposedly high ancap scores......go figure!

Anyhow it's nothing new....I'd bet 90% on this forum allready are aware that ancap ratings aren't exactly the gospel when it comes to SAFE cars!

As for buying a brand new car.....you could try looking at models that have evolved from five star models previously. For eg if the old focus is a five star and has a good crash history, and they bring out focus mk2. It'd be a good bet that the new model will be ok aswell. Common sense prevails. Or take a lucky dip....save all the research.....

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So a car that is 10 years newer is safer? Didn't see that coming!


Fact of the matter is, you exact article still has this written in it, "challenging the myth that only larger cars can be safe" and that's what this whole thread is about.

Ahh so that's the fact your pushing now! First of it was the fact yous thought I was commenting thru my ****.....then you posted an article YOU thought I was referring too.......then I posted the correct article showing I was in fact correct.
No mention of that now is there. quick SAVE YOURSELF!

Keep waffling on mate....next time you have a go at someone......get your facts straight first....so you don't make a fool of yourself!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Don't believe ME then, look it up yourself......5 star ratings are very easy for new cars to reach these days. If you look at the difference between what ancap asks for....and the safety/crash results from the tests I quoted above...you will be amazed at how simple and...like I said....basically useless a ancap rating actually is.
I'll even give you a tip.....ancap doesn't recognize rear passengers for their rating.(if you still think its great then keep on reading)

Some of the worst crash/injury results are from cars with supposedly high ancap scores......go figure!

Anyhow it's nothing new....I'd bet 90% on this forum allready are aware that ancap ratings aren't exactly the gospel when it comes to SAFE cars!

As for buying a brand new car.....you could try looking at models that have evolved from five star models previously. For eg if the old focus is a five star and has a good crash history, and they bring out focus mk2. It'd be a good bet that the new model will be ok aswell. Common sense prevails. Or take a lucky dip....save all the research.....

Prove ANCAP is useless, show us the links.

As for your comment saying Ancap rating is easy for cars to reach these days means the car manufacturers are designing safer cars.

In your own statement in bold you still rely on ANCAP rating, enough said here!

[zilo]

Only time to disregard NCAP ratings is when someone confuses a small 5 star NCAP rated car with a large 5 star NCAP rated car,

The large 5 star NCAP rated car is always safer.

[Nikked]

[BHDOGS]

******* hammer slam 1tuffute you owned there ***** good as for names keep using them there the best descriptive words for people you can get. You can try and be fancy like wretched or just say hes a **** much easier.

[MAD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXunnaaYtz0

You wouldn't know it by reading some responses here, but physics does exist.





Next we'll be arguing that two identical cars in a head on crash is equal to a 200km/h into a solid immovable object.