Ford cutting EV production

[Sprintey]

Yes.

Not that I know where to find them, but I guess you could look for the value of their bonds as they go - think of GM in 2008 and what happened there.

It'd be so weird if they bankrupted themselves by deliberately choosing a capital intensive path that their customers didn't want.

[kypez]

The problem is misinformation and misunderstanding. People keep talking about hydrogen thinking they'll be able to run their existing cars or versions of it on hydrogen.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The only way they work is with a fuel cell that is linked to an electric motor that is silent; you're not going to get your V8 running on Hydrogen. Hydrogen is also stupidly expensive even though you use less, the per KG rate is high!

The Toyota plan is that people don't realise that their cars are actually silent and not what people thought Hydrogen cars would be.

Why anyone in their right mind would want hydrogen is beyond me.

Have a watch.

https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=T6iVHvSc_tFx6M30

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

The problem is misinformation and misunderstanding. People keep talking about hydrogen thinking they'll be able to run their existing cars or versions of it on hydrogen.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The only way they work is with a fuel cell that is linked to an electric motor that is silent; you're not going to get your V8 running on Hydrogen. Hydrogen is also stupidly expensive even though you use less, the per KG rate is high!

The Toyota plan is that people don't realise that their cars are actually silent and not what people thought Hydrogen cars would be.

Why anyone in their right mind would want hydrogen is beyond me.

Have a watch.

https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=T6iVHvSc_tFx6M30

Technically you can, BMW has done it with their various V12s from the early 1990s through to their last attempt in 2007 with the Hydrogen 7.

It was a piece of **** though and it did 50L/100km on hydrogen, while making less power than on unleaded.

It doesn't have much energy by volume but by weight it does because its light AF.

The only thing that makes sense for hydrogen is fuel cells and only for commercial vehicles because of energy density of batteries sucks for commercial use, but it works fine for passenger transport.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Technically you can, BMW has done it with their various V12s from the early 1990s through to their last attempt in 2007 with the Hydrogen 7.



It was a piece of **** though and it did 50L/100km on hydrogen, while making less power than on unleaded.

Yep. That was covered in the video too. It would vent the Hydrogen if you didn't use it for a few days and had a warning not to leave the car in closed places.

So many people I talk to about hydrogen truly believe their current ICE cars will just convert to Hydrogen or the new cars will just be ICE engines running on Hydrogen. So much misinformation/misunderstanding.

[jpd80]

Why can’t we just go back to low cost LPG and cut our fuel bill nearly in half

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Why can’t we just go back to low cost LPG and cut our fuel bill nearly in half

Or cheaper still CNG

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Or cheaper still CNG

Someone here on AFF has converted their B series to CNG, I posted their videos about it recently.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Someone here on AFF has converted their B series to CNG, I posted their videos about it recently.

It was a big thing over here years ago , was probably about 3x more popular than LPG , .....some conversions were shocking ie Morris commercial vans that were a POS were a nightmare as an apprentice mechanic to keep running , but 6cyl and v8,s ran well on it as you probably lost about 25% power

[PooDog]

At one stage we had 120000 cars running on CNG and were one of the biggest users in the world

I think there was a change of government and they just started pricing it out of competition

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Why can’t we just go back to low cost LPG and cut our fuel bill nearly in half

Originally Posted by PooDog

Or cheaper still CNG

India have moved to CNG big time. It's not as cheap as you'd hope though at the pump vs supplied at home.

Truth is, why cut the bill in half when you can cut it by 9/10 ths.

At least CNG and LPG will address the fuel security issues.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by kypez

India have moved to CNG big time. It's not as cheap as you'd hope though at the pump vs supplied at home.

Truth is, why cut the bill in half when you can cut it by 9/10 ths.

At least CNG and LPG will address the fuel security issues.

It's a very dry fuel a lot of valve guide issues ,cracked heads because they ran a bit hotter , I wonder how it would go in Indias heat ?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by PooDog

It's a very dry fuel a lot of valve guide issues ,cracked heads because they ran a bit hotter , I wonder how it would go in Indias heat ?

They seem to love it. All the manufacturers are releasing cars with dual fuel and all the cabbies love the CNG for being cheaper than petrol and diesel. It's cleaned up the air a bit too.

They want to go EV but energy generation will be interesting for them. Whilst coal is cleaner than petrol and diesel, What I haven't researched enough is emissions from CNG vs Coal.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by PooDog

It's a very dry fuel a lot of valve guide issues ,cracked heads because they ran a bit hotter , I wonder how it would go in Indias heat ?

The Barra sixes fitted with Eco LPI were great, I had a Ute with it, high compression ran like a clock,
great fuel economy used about 13 l/100 km but LPG was still cheap back then so sad when it was replaced.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The Barra sixes fitted with Eco LPI were great, I had a Ute with it, high compression ran like a clock,

great fuel economy used about 13 l/100 km but LPG was still cheap back then so sad when it was replaced.

I wanted to get a FGX G6E to replace our FG2 G6E EcoLpi but they didn't offer that as they didn't want Taxi's using them! Crazy! I loved that car. That was the beginning of the end of my purchasing of regular Falcon models.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by kypez

They seem to love it. All the manufacturers are releasing cars with dual fuel and all the cabbies love the CNG for being cheaper than petrol and diesel. It's cleaned up the air a bit too.

They want to go EV but energy generation will be interesting for them. Whilst coal is cleaner than petrol and diesel, What I haven't researched enough is emissions from CNG vs Coal.

You would think that even a Hybrid would be cheaper to run though ? The wife's got the plug in down to 0.8l / 100km , CNG wouldn't get close to that plus all the similar negatives to hydrogen, dirty great heavy tank to store etc and it used to stink out the car when you got a leak

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Why can’t we just go back to low cost LPG and cut our fuel bill nearly in half

Because in Australia the greenie movement doesn't see gas or any fossil fuel as acceptable...rotate the planet to say Europe and their greenie movement sees otherwise including bio-mass electricity generation, gas and in some countries even nuclear isn't the evil it once was...

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Because in Australia the greenie movement doesn't see gas or any fossil fuel as acceptable...rotate the planet to say Europe and their greenie movement sees otherwise including bio-mass electricity generation, gas and in some countries even nuclear isn't the evil it once was...

Gas isn't pollution free. Neither is solar for the manufacture process but it's still better than Gas. Not to mention the issues around extraction and environmental impacts of extraction.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kypez

Gas isn't pollution free. Neither is solar for the manufacture process but it's still better than Gas. Not to mention the issues around extraction and environmental impacts of extraction.

My point isn't the energy source, it's the difference of viewpoint of basically the same environmental groups here and those is some OS countries.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

My point isn't the energy source, it's the difference of viewpoint of basically the same environmental groups here and those is some OS countries.

They don't have the luxury of almost infinite space like we do. Nor do we have the climate they have to deal with. Gas is better than coal for them. Solar and wind are better for us than gas.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kypez

They don't have the luxury of almost infinite space like we do. Nor do we have the climate they have to deal with. Gas is better than coal for them. Solar and wind are better for us than gas.

One slight problem with solar, here in Vic our generation hours from solar is lower than further north. I remember when getting quotes from installation companies or researching on my own they made a point of adjusting their "sales spiel" determining payback periods due to average hours of sunlight per day. I laugh now when I get a cold call making all these claims on solar as 5 years of real world experience quickly cuts through all their BS. I tell them I didn't do it to save money, I did it to get away from power companies. Last bill we sent back to the grid double what we bought plus whatever we used during the day from our system, and without a battery yet.

I wonder if the drop in EV sales in the US for Ford means shorter supply time for the Mustang EV...although as mentioned, once again it's priced too high.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

One slight problem with solar, here in Vic our generation hours from solar is lower than further north. I remember when getting quotes from installation companies or researching on my own they made a point of adjusting their "sales spiel" determining payback periods due to average hours of sunlight per day. I laugh now when I get a cold call making all these claims on solar as 5 years of real world experience quickly cuts through all their BS. I tell them I didn't do it to save money, I did it to get away from power companies. Last bill we sent back to the grid double what we bought plus whatever we used during the day from our system, and without a battery yet.



I wonder if the drop in EV sales in the US for Ford means shorter supply time for the Mustang EV...although as mentioned, once again it's priced too high.

I think it's time we started thinking like a country rather than individual states. Power can be generated in other states and shared..

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by kypez

I think it's time we started thinking like a country rather than individual states. Power can be generated in other states and shared..

That should be the case with all essentials. One of the many quirks of our systems.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by kypez

I think it's time we started thinking like a country rather than individual states. Power can be generated in other states and shared..

The interconnectors are the limitation at the moment. We already share some energy between states, eg:

approx 700Mw NSW - QLD, 1300MW QLD - NSW

approx 1600MW VIC - NSW, 1350MW NSW - VIC

approx 600MW TAS - VIC, 500MW VIC - TAS

approx 800MW VIC - SA, 700MW SA - VIC.

Of course, the obvious issue with transmission over such long distances is transmission losses, which potentially make any significant sharing inefficient.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

The interconnectors are the limitation at the moment. We already share some energy between states, eg:



approx 700Mw NSW - QLD, 1300MW QLD - NSW



approx 1600MW VIC - NSW, 1350MW NSW - VIC



approx 600MW TAS - VIC, 500MW VIC - TAS



approx 800MW VIC - SA, 700MW SA - VIC.



Of course, the obvious issue with transmission over such long distances is transmission losses, which potentially make any significant sharing inefficient.

True, yes we are already sharing but we need to do more. Losses are not as important when the sources are renewable.

On a much smaller scale, I charge my home batteries and car from solar. I lose some 10% and sometimes a little more when I need to top up from my batteries.

But given how much I produce, I never give it any thought.

[Dr Smith]

FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0 beat me...and luckily my deliveries have all arrived so I can nick off and enjoy some of that aircon at home from our solar panels...Have a great weekend AFF members...

[Sprintey]

Peter Zeihan's take on the fall in EV sales and their rollout in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P95NFlAnmY

[jpd80]

At the moment, Ford now has over 14,300 unsold Mach Es at its US dealerships.
The numbers keep growing each month, something has to give soon, people just aren’t buying them…

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

At the moment, Ford now has over 14,300 unsold Mach Es at its US dealerships.
The numbers keep growing each month, something has to give soon, people just aren’t buying them…

Why would you when the market leader is cheaper, has significantly more experience and a better charging network?

On the Australian pricing alone you'd have to have rocks in your head to pay the extra $14K for the povvo pack 'Mustang' over the Tesla Model Y.

Tesla is the Ford of EVs and Ford is the MG of EVs

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Why would you when the market leader is cheaper, has significantly more experience and a better charging network?

On the Australian pricing alone you'd have to have rocks in your head to pay the extra $14K for the povvo pack 'Mustang' over the Tesla Model Y.

Tesla is the Ford of EVs and Ford is the MG of EVs

Hasn't Ford done a deal getting access to Tesla charges?
Edit, from next year.
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...hargers--.html

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Is Ford was getting access to Tesla charges?

Not all of them yet. Many but not all. They have adopted the Tesla plug style all the same.

In Australia, we use the generic plug but only half the chargers are available to other brands.