First Drive: Falcon Ecoboost

[Smoke Pursuit]

I an seriously considering a 4 pot G6E for next year... After having a Territory diesel and cutting the need to refuel in half I think I could live with a 4 pot G6E....

[bernbo]

Originally Posted by prydey

another area where we can't have uniformity across the country.

here in s.a. rego cost is determined by cylinder count, nothing else.

why we can't have the same rules nationwide i'll never know.

Same in QLD. Just a quick comparison of rego that may help the 4's case in QLD. If you have a large fleet i.e Queenland government these dollars would soon add up to big numbers.

New Vehicle rego:
4=$1860 (assuming $40000 list price, 12 month including CTP)
6=$2223 (also $40000 list price)
8=$3601 (i.e GT @$65,000)

Assuming ($55,000 eg G6e level for all cylinder numbers)
4=$2328
6=$2769
8=$3225

Registration renewels (no need for vehicle cost as duty has been paid. Compulsory third party included, 12 months rego)
4=$636
6=$799
8=$976

[SteveJH]

I think you may have picked the wrong example for a fleet. The Queensland government wouldn't care what the rego cost was because they'd just be paying themselves anyway.

[bernbo]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I think you may have picked the wrong example for a fleet. The Queensland government wouldn't care what the rego cost was because they'd just be paying themselves anyway.

You are probably right, but as I work for Qhealth I know that there is no discount because it is all government money. I would say its the other way; our I.T department charges us $50 for a second hand replacement mouse for the computer they supplied! Its all about the budgets and keeping beauracrats in jobs. Anyway a bit off topic, but it would still be a big saving to get into a 4 cylinder falcon for the fleets.

[Link]

Originally Posted by Grobbo

I don't reckon we'll see many tuned versions of these - the target market is Corporates, Fleets and Families.

If they open it up to P platers then maybe we'll see some chipping and tuning as they try to covertly extract a bit more poke, but ultimately the turbo must be quite small to deilver such solid low rev torque and then sign off up top.... Henceforth it would need to be changed for a good dose more power... And P platers can't modify a car for more power... A new 40k car on finance with illegal mods... Hmmm

Plus the tranny is only good for 450 nm... Mild mods would get it there pretty quick.

I think most rev heads or boost junkies will just go for an XR6 turbo...

While i do agree I always wanted a 4 door variant that was RWD - and i think that is the key. The only 2LT 4 door cars i can think of are AWD, Evo and WRX or FWD, Golf GTi, Mazda 3MPS, XR5T so to me this opens up a huge void with a 4cyl RWD platform. I know people who just flat out REFUSE to even drive a XR5T purely because it is, as they put it, wrong wheel drive.

If they bring it out with a decent 6spd manual transmission i think they will have a good seller on their hands.

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by Link

While i do agree I always wanted a 4 door variant that was RWD - and i think that is the key. The only 2LT 4 door cars i can think of are AWD, Evo and WRX or FWD, Golf GTi, Mazda 3MPS, XR5T so to me this opens up a huge void with a 4cyl RWD platform. I know people who just flat out REFUSE to even drive a XR5T purely because it is, as they put it, wrong wheel drive.

If they bring it out with a decent 6spd manual transmission i think they will have a good seller on their hands.

Yeah maybe. It is unique in that regard. Although it's not really a 4 door 200sx with that weight...

At least if it does get tuned a bit, Ford will have to think about an XR version...

A lot of private buyers seem to like the way the XR6 looks over anything else, they'd surely buy a more economical version with the same looks and better handling. It's not like you can really hear the six on the standard cars - which 99.99% of FG XR6's are...

[blueoval]

Had this have been FWD, the neigh sayers here would be screaming for heads to roll. The fact that its RWD is the biggest plus for a large majority of members here and I believe that alone is the saving grace for a lot of people with phobias of FWD cars.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I think you may have picked the wrong example for a fleet. The Queensland government wouldn't care what the rego cost was because they'd just be paying themselves anyway.

You are making the assumption that the various departments of state government work together for the common good.

Actually the best representitive model of state government is the Feudal system of Britain before the renaissance.

Many Lords, Earls and Dukes rule their private domains squabbling with each other over even the slightest differences.

They are jealous of each other and often will go out of their way to disrupt others rather than have them gain some advantage or increased status regardless of any collateral damage to the ordinary people.

Although they are under control of the King they only actually acknowlege this when they need something or are commanded to appear in the royal court.

So basically any cost that comes out of their budget is opposed as it is "their" money to spend on "important" things not given to their neighbouring "Lord" as tribute........

[Fev]

Just followed an unmarked Eco LPI Falcon XT - was in 'Smoke' I think its an Eastwood car for those who live around the northern Sydney area

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Had this have been FWD, the neigh sayers here would be screaming for heads to roll. The fact that its RWD is the biggest plus for a large majority of members here and I believe that alone is the saving grace for a lot of people with phobias of FWD cars.

Ecoboost in FG2 guise was never NOT going to be RWD.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well lets hope there is a "battle of the barges" in MOTOR/WHEELS in the near future.

Something like 0-400m, wakefield lap, fuel economy (both litres & cost) with single driver and 4 people and 300kg in the boot.

Comparing G6 I6, T4 and L6 as well as Commodore little and big V6s.

In addition to the raw data a simple table showing actual costs based on km/wk or km/yr for 10,000, 20,000 & 30,000km/yr over a 3 year period accounting for initial cost, rego, insurance and assuming a 50% resale.

So the odds will be even an no one feature of any model will unfairly reflect on the others.

Leave out the 0-100 and hot lap...totally irrelevant to 95% of buyers. They're more interested in economy, running costs, and comfort levels, than something trying to portray itself as a highly strung bitumen burner.

Rego...you mean there are places in Australia where four cylinder cars don't cost less than six cylinder cars...? Queensland wants to know the cylinder count, nothing more, as well. Of course I still remember my old man sarcastically complaining that he was paying four cylinder rego for Diahatsu Charade that only had three cylinders... But then, the guys with V12 Jags only paid V8 rego...

[GT69]

Originally Posted by flappist

You are making the assumption that the various departments of state government work together for the common good.

Actually the best representitive model of state government is the Feudal system of Britain before the renaissance.

Many Lords, Earls and Dukes rule their private domains squabbling with each other over even the slightest differences.

They are jealous of each other and often will go out of their way to disrupt others rather than have them gain some advantage or increased status regardless of any collateral damage to the ordinary people.

Although they are under control of the King they only actually acknowlege this when they need something or are commanded to appear in the royal court.

So basically any cost that comes out of their budget is opposed as it is "their" money to spend on "important" things not given to their neighbouring "Lord" as tribute........

Off topic. But spot on!

Carry on.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Ecoboost in FG2 guise was never NOT going to be RWD.

Exactly. I'm quite amused that people thought it would be anything but.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Exactly. I'm quite amused that people thought it would be anything but.

Didn't Ford say (when they announced that they would be bringing one out) that they were gonna be making it a RWD & a world first for an ecoboost engine?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Grobbo

I don't reckon we'll see many tuned versions of these - the target market is Corporates, Fleets and Families.

If they open it up to P platers then maybe we'll see some chipping and tuning as they try to covertly extract a bit more poke, but ultimately the turbo must be quite small to deilver such solid low rev torque and then sign off up top.... Henceforth it would need to be changed for a good dose more power... And P platers can't modify a car for more power... A new 40k car on finance with illegal mods... Hmmm

Plus the tranny is only good for 450 nm... Mild mods would get it there pretty quick.

I think most rev heads or boost junkies will just go for an XR6 turbo...

I agree with much of what you have said. Bear in mind though, the BA XR6 Turbo had 'only' 450Nm.

As for modability. The low inertia K03 turbo is what is fitted to the 2.0L EcoBoost motor. Here is a compressor flow map for the K03-275. Similar results may be expected.

http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...075-turbo.html

The map suggests about 26lbs/min of airflow at a pressure ratio of 2.0:1 ie 14.7psi boost. This equals about 260hp at an Air Fuel Ratio of 12:1, but since this is a DI motor, it may get away with being leaner than that. So, 13.2:1 (10% less fuel) and perhaps 286hp (214kW) is achievable.

It retains good efficiency up to a PR of 2.4:1 or about 20psi of boost at about 20lb/mins of air. At that boost level it would / should be 450Nm. At 286hp/214kW max flow, the max rpm for that torque could be held to would be 4500rpm. After that power would remain steady and torque proportionally drop as rpm rise to be 340Nm at 6000rpm. Typical of a small turbo, boosting early and falling over at the top. But, very good for daily driving!

I think a $1500 tune, would provide far better bang then $1500 on the NA6 through catback and tune. But you'd be starting from a higher base with the NA 4.0. Compared to an XR6T. Neither are in with a shot! They are the champs

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Didn't Ford say (when they announced that they would be bringing one out) that they were gonna be making it a RWD & a world first for an ecoboost engine?

Yep, and the Carpoint article I posted referred to the fact that FoA's work with the Falcon Ecoboost application will have ramifications for RWD Ford vehicles globally, but some people seem to like ignoring cold hard facts.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm betting that with 50Kg off the front and 10 kg off the back,
Ecoboost would have about 50/50 weight distribution..

One article said its near as dammit to a perfect 50:50.

[FPV GTHO]

i wonder what sort of balance they could get it to have if a V8/I4 was the longest motor it needed...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

i wonder what sort of balance they could get it to have if a V8/I4 was the longest motor it needed...

Ponder this point, three cylinders on the I-6 sit forward of the front axle,
if you took that 80 Kg and moved it rear wards as in a V6 engine,
just imagine how much that changes the handling dynamics...

[Stazza_Brendan]

People talking about throwing a tune at it could be disappointed.
Runs different ecu to normal falcon. Meaning someone has to crack it, develop software, distribute it. I cant see modifying the ecoboost being a popular choice so there may not be enough demand for tunes.
Looks like it runs a airflow meter (how long till it runs out of resolution isf boost could be raised).
How much headroom is there on the injection side of things. Pump and injectors.
The 6HP26 in the xr6t was only rated to around 600nm and plenty of guys run well past this.

Might get intake, catback and intercooler replacements at best.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Stazza_Brendan

People talking about throwing a tune at it could be disappointed.
Runs different ecu to normal falcon. Meaning someone has to crack it, develop software, distribute it. I cant see modifying the ecoboost being a popular choice so there may not be enough demand for tunes.
Looks like it runs a airflow meter (how long till it runs out of resolution isf boost could be raised).
How much headroom is there on the injection side of things. Pump and injectors.
The 6HP26 in the xr6t was only rated to around 600nm and plenty of guys run well past this.

Might get intake, catback and intercooler replacements at best.

Thought all MKII falcons were running the new ECU?

[FPV GTHO]

SCT is an American company, it wont take them long to sort it out

[BFZ Wagon]

I wonder if rental car companies will end up getting these? Would certainly be a nice way to have a good drive of one anyway.
A couple of things I think are odd with the new 'Ecoboost' I4T.. It will only come in auto. (which is a damn shame) I wonder what a manual transmission version would have been like. Hmm.
Secondly, does anyone else think it's odd that the G6 and G6E models with a 4 cylinder engine will still be called G6 and G6E??. Doesn't the '6' mean it's a 6 cylinder? or am I looking too much into it?? It would be like calling a car an XR8 and putting a 6 in it. Just seems odd to me.
I figured it would be called a G4 or G4E but that would probably require too much stuffing around and unnecessary cost.

Ah well. It looks nice. I hope it sells well.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BFZ Wagon

I wonder if rental car companies will end up getting these? Would certainly be a nice way to have a good drive of one anyway.
A couple of things I think are odd with the new 'Ecoboost' I4T.. It will only come in auto. (which is a damn shame) I wonder what a manual transmission version would have been like. Hmm.
Secondly, does anyone else think it's odd that the G6 and G6E models with a 4 cylinder engine will still be called G6 and G6E??. Doesn't the '6' mean it's a 6 cylinder? or am I looking too much into it?? It would be like calling a car an XR8 and putting a 6 in it. Just seems odd to me.
I figured it would be called a G4 or G4E but that would probably require too much stuffing around and unnecessary cost.

Ah well. It looks nice. I hope it sells well.

Clearly, Ford wants to avoid proclaiming the Ecoboost as an I-4 or 2.0 litres because
doing that in a large car may cause people to be underwhelmed with thoughts of
an under performing slug, something embarrassing to drive an admit to friends....
In short, Ford wants to give the engine a fighting chance against preconceived
negative images, just drive the car an tell us what you think.....

When you look at Falcon EB vs Mondeo XR5T, the Falcon has better performance
and fuel economy, and actually rivals figures achieved by the Ecoboost Mondeo

Fingers crossed that Ecoboost and EcoLPI add significant sales to Falcon.

[Nikked]

So, where are all the people who laughed at a 4cyl falcon, saying it was no better then a gutless starfire?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Fingers crossed that Ecoboost and EcoLPI add significant sales to Falcon.

It should, as long as people are aware of it.

Ford truly have a range like never before, even just on the falcon.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ponder this point, three cylinders on the I-6 sit forward of the front axle,
if you took that 80 Kg and moved it rear wards as in a V6 engine,
just imagine how much that changes the handling dynamics...

handling?? i think that is very overrated. most buyers wouldn't care. i'd even go as far as saying many buyers have probably already got a strong bias toward a particular car even before taking anything for a drive.

the xr8 used to get bagged for having a heavy weight over the front, but in day to day driving the average joe wouldn't know and wouldn't care. those that said it was an issue in their day to day travel probably did so because they read an article where an 'expert' said it was.

if there was a survey at the local shops or school asking 'how does your car handle?' i'm sure the respondants wouldn't really know what to say.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by BFZ Wagon

I wonder if rental car companies will end up getting these? Would certainly be a nice way to have a good drive of one anyway.
A couple of things I think are odd with the new 'Ecoboost' I4T.. It will only come in auto. (which is a damn shame) I wonder what a manual transmission version would have been like. Hmm.
Secondly, does anyone else think it's odd that the G6 and G6E models with a 4 cylinder engine will still be called G6 and G6E??. Doesn't the '6' mean it's a 6 cylinder? or am I looking too much into it?? It would be like calling a car an XR8 and putting a 6 in it. Just seems odd to me.
I figured it would be called a G4 or G4E but that would probably require too much stuffing around and unnecessary cost.

Ah well. It looks nice. I hope it sells well.

BMW and Mercedes long stopped putting 'accurate' badges on their models. ie 320i once meant that it was a 3 series with the 2.0L six. Now it can have a 1.9L or 2.1L six. The 323i had a detuned 2.5L. At the time, when they started playing around with the badges the speil was along the lines of "x engine performs like a 2.5L" so we have kept that badge etc.

The diesel 318d/320d share the same 2L motor with different tunes. The Benz E250 now runs a 1.8L turbo 4. The E550 a 4.7L turbo V8.

Yes, creating a G4/G4E would be unnecessary cost. Ford want people to focus on the technology and driving experience not the cylinder count.

[FG_Frodza]

Originally Posted by phillyc

BMW and Mercedes long stopped putting 'accurate' badges on their models. ie 320i once meant that it was a 3 series with the 2.0L six. Now it can have a 1.9L or 2.1L six. The 323i had a detuned 2.5L. At the time, when they started playing around with the badges the speil was along the lines of "x engine performs like a 2.5L" so we have kept that badge etc.

The diesel 318d/320d share the same 2L motor with different tunes. The Benz E250 now runs a 1.8L turbo 4. The E550 a 4.7L turbo V8.

Yes, creating a G4/G4E would be unnecessary cost. Ford want people to focus on the technology and driving experience not the cylinder count.

I agree, but also, Ford isn't exactly wanting to scream from the rooftops that it's a 4 cylinder.

If they put a V8 in a G6E I am sure they would call it a G8E.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by BFZ Wagon

I wonder if rental car companies will end up getting these? Would certainly be a nice way to have a good drive of one anyway.
A couple of things I think are odd with the new 'Ecoboost' I4T.. It will only come in auto. (which is a damn shame) I wonder what a manual transmission version would have been like. Hmm.
Secondly, does anyone else think it's odd that the G6 and G6E models with a 4 cylinder engine will still be called G6 and G6E??. Doesn't the '6' mean it's a 6 cylinder? or am I looking too much into it?? It would be like calling a car an XR8 and putting a 6 in it. Just seems odd to me.
I figured it would be called a G4 or G4E but that would probably require too much stuffing around and unnecessary cost.

Ah well. It looks nice. I hope it sells well.

Unless this car gets P-plate exemption, rental car companies wont touch it.
I know of a case where a customer got a free upgrade to a Mercedes C200, customer was on P-plates and didnt know it was turboed, got pulled over and recieved massive fine a loss of licence....
Kind of humerous, when they could of gotten a much faster XR6 instead, and been completely legal.