Fukushima declared an emergency...

[pottery beige]

where do you plan on building these dams

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

where do you plan on building these dams without disenfranchising any frogs

Mr Beige, the question was not where we could build a hydroelectric dam, nor if we should build a hydroelectric dam. The question was is there an equivalent renewable power generator to match Liddell in NSW, in fact there isn’t a non renewable power generating plant that can match the top 4 renewable generators.
The answer was yes, not that we should build them, or will build them.
I think a reminder is necessary. Renewable does not mean without social or political issues that need to be overcome. Or that because it is renewable it should be done without discussion and debate. The desire of my commentary and offer of fact is to possibly offer enlightenment to those open to it. I know some will never agree, but we can only continue the discussion as better informed people make better decisions.

Justin

[cheap]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I will ignore your spelling msiatakes and offer some facts...
Liddell power station in NSW is a coal-powered thermal power station with four 500 megawatts (670,000 hp) GEC (UK) steam driven turbo alternators for a combined capacity of 2,000 megawatts (MW)
Two renewable power generators thats spring to mind are 1) The Three Gorges Dam in Hubei, China, which has the world's largest instantaneous generating capacity (22,500 MW) and 2) Itaipu Dam in Brazil/Paraguay with (14,000 MW)
Now as Im only 13 I believe 22,500Mw is 11.5 times greater in capacity and 14,000MW is 7 times greater in capacity than Liddell...hmmm not equivalent. so how about Lijiaxia Dam which produces 2000MW but only ranks 56th in terms of size.

Justin

Great news, so we'll be transitioning from coal and building hydro power stations right across the breath of Australia and the rest of the world too, is that the renewable solution? Is it Justin?

BTW, note the correct spelling of mistakes, you typed "msiatakes"

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by cheap

Great news, so we'll be transitioning from coal and building hydro power stations right across the breath of Australia and the rest of the world too, is that the renewable solution? Is it Justin?

BTW, note the correct spelling of mistakes, you typed "msiatakes"

Oh you got me mate. I got so excited as I’m only a teenager who has been on AFF for like 6 months and I made another spelling mistake. Corrected it but not quickly enough! But I answered your question satisfactorily.
Please see my previous post regarding what I think of the information I provided. I have consistently stated a diverse and spread method of power generation is needed, I haven’t even started on use and efficiencies to minimise power need. but will add that Iceland, predominately a one city nation, derives 85 percent of its power from renewables, its oil consumption being attributed to transport. It is possible, with the right attitude Australia could easily do it.
Do you have a preference where your electricity comes from as long as it comes? or must you have coal and nuclear generated electricity for some religious reason.

Justin

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by b0son

You're full of isotopes, you're being bombarded with radioactivity every day, both from the environment and from what's already within you.

No way really?

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

where do you plan on building these dams

On a river....

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

No way really?

http://www.rerowland.com/BodyActivity.htm

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

On a river....

Without wrecking a downstream ecosystem.... ?

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by b0son

Without wrecking a downstream ecosystem.... ?

Yes precisely! On a river... but without wrecking a downstream ecosystem.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by b0son

http://www.rerowland.com/BodyActivity.htm

But you speak as though these toxins are harmless and have caused nobody any harm. Yet they're proven to be the cause of thousands of chronic diseases/illnesses. Do you want to create a new generation of mental disorders or something?

Epigentics.... can't ignore them.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by b0son

Without wrecking a downstream ecosystem.... ?

You are right, any major infrastructure project will have significant social and political as well as environmental implications. Renewable energy does not mean zero impact. What we need to determine as a society is what are we prepared to risk, effect or do without to achieve what we want.
If we choose Nuclear we need to, as a society, accept that the waste will need to be stored for a history, the risk of a radioactive event and the other associated issues like security, mining tailings, transport and true cost. If we choose Hydro as an example we need to accept a large impact on a watercourse and valley somewhere, if we choose a mixed solution we need to accept a bit of everything.
Simply put a traditional centralised power generation solution requires a small footprint, but has significant environmental impact. While a renewable solution requires a larger footprint or more footprints, but has a smaller environmental impact and I argue a greater positive economic impact.
There are pros and cons to all technologies, and we can only weight them up after intelligent, responsible debate without rhetoric and deliberate miss-information

Justin

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by b0son

http://www.rerowland.com/BodyActivity.htm

While I agree Radiation to be a natural and possibly beneficial side effect of the building blocks of physics and chemistry the Rowlands probably aren’t the best example to cite. Bob is a post war meteorologist and Ann wrote about trains and education. In effect both are authors not researchers
While his dialogue talks of research I don't believe his 'findings' are peer reviewed. But His point stands.
Dependant on dose some radioactive elements do exist naturally, we are bombarded with radiation every second. but the dose is key, hence the term background radiation, which is the level or dose which helps determine half lives of low and high level radiation.Ie how long must we wait till a high level radioactive element decays to effectively background levels.
Background levels being 3-6 millisievert (mSv)depending on where you live in the world. USA is 6.24? mSv including medical, natural and residual accident radiation.
100 mSv is the lowest level in which an increase in cancer is evident
10,000 mSv will be fatal within weeks.
Fukushima detected 72,900 mSv and Chernobyl a massive 200,000 mSv was detected at the site after the incidents. Far and above the levels our bodies can withstand.
Justin

[CJR09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=xT1-rkJCiuU

[2011G6E]

I do hope people aren't going by that fake and misleading map getting around Facebook and other sites showing the radiation in the Pacific...it's been thoroughly discredited as scare-mongering.

[Trump]

TEPCO being honest???

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311dis...AJ201309130063

[fordomatic]

this is getting ridiculous, when is the media going to give it some coverage?

[mik]

i read in an article somewhere , they are building one or two of those huge tanks per day, that is what it said...... per day to put radioactive water in, how long can they keep that up?

[blueoval]

Fukushima readies for fuel rod removal
http://news.yahoo.com/fukushima-plan...tSrBEAnxLQtDMD

Facts on complex fuel rod removal
http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/fa...hima-fuel-rods

[Maka]

Hope it all go's well with no complications, the last thing Tepco needs is more bad luck - how delicate & complicated is the task of fuel rod removal!

The salvage crews are national hero's doing a task that surely might not end too good for them down the track...lets pray this saga ends well for Japan & its people.

cheers, Maka

[jpblue1000]

Sobering statement from the article;

'That worst-case scenario said a huge evacuation area could encompass a large part of greater Tokyo, a megalopolis with 35 million inhabitants.'

JP

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Sobering statement from the article;

'That worst-case scenario said a huge evacuation area could encompass a large part of greater Tokyo, a megalopolis with 35 million inhabitants.'

JP

Not to be too cynical, but I foresee this happening sooner than we think. It's whether or not other surrounding countries will provide amnesty for fleeing Japanese refugees because of the this. Also how badly it will effect the Japanese economy.

[wulos]

I think that their worst case modelling may be a little 'over the top'? but it does show that they are at least looking a bit further forward than the initial design analysis that thought it would be a great idea to instal their backup generators inside of "underground" bunkers.

From the article..

"Government modelling in the immediate aftermath of the Fukushima disaster, which was only subsequently made public, suggested that an uncontrolled nuclear conflagration at Fukushima could start a chain reaction in other nearby nuclear plants."

.

[ILLaViTaR]

3 reactors have actually melted down and the 4th is likely to but hopefully not.

But don't start panicking until we see 3 eyed fish. In this day and age science is crap (ie the opinion of nuclear physicists). Our eyes and archaic opinions are the only reputable sources for solid validation of evidence when it comes to subatomic particles so let's just wait and see what happens. That's the smartest thing to do before we start spending money on renewable energy. Hopefully we can get another eye like the fish so our science becomes 33% more powerful.

[mik]

from memory they where saying some of the fuel rods may have burnt through bottom of the reactor, hence the large increase in radiation just recently, also they where saying there is a possibility the whole building could collapse with the next quake , creating an even bigger disaster.

In a clip on the tube, a well known scientist had a lady call him asking how safe she was in tokyo from the nuclear fallout,
he was skeptical she was in any danger, but told her to send the filter out of her air conditioner, which she did, the lady told him the air con had not been used for some time as she had been away for 6 weeks iirc, the guy was expecting to find nothing, and when the filter was seen it had very little dust on it as the apartment had been closed up and not used for some time.

upon checking the filter it had one of the nasty radioactive particles in it(sorry i can't recall which one) that set the detector off.
This sent alarm bells ringing as the sample of dust was so small and to have a find at all is a big worry.
To the lady's original question was she safe in tokyo, he told her she should leave.
I feel sorry for the Japanese people, but tepco needs to get Khyber pass quick smart and let international help get in there tackle the problem, whenever a company is looking after share holders, money comes first, whats right comes second.

[gtfpv]

That sounds scary .

[GasoLane]

CNN is not in the business of scaremongering and had someone in there... this report from less than 24 hrs ago.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/07/wo...isit-hancocks/

[Trump]

TEPCO have found a new source of manpower to help with the clean up:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9BT00520131230

[blueoval]

Thats terrible. Forced recruiting of homeless because their expendable?

I understand there is no willing volunteers but this isnt the answer either, and especially for min wages.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

TEPCO have found a new source of manpower to help with the clean up:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9BT00520131230

Reading that makes me feel unwell... spent 4 days in Osaka 4 months ago as part of an 18 day trip to Korea and couldn't wait to return to Korea... Dont know what it was, the people were so sombre and withdrawn...

They have been in an apparent recession for years, this is the last thing they need.

I wonder if they evacuate parts of Japan and go to Korea for help, especially with their history.....

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

TEPCO have found a new source of manpower to help with the clean up:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9BT00520131230

Wow that's ****** I guess this isn't the 21st century after all.

Backwards government.