Kevin Rudd finished?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Surely someone has a chance to put there stamp on things and not to be judged by there hair color or gender.
I suppose that's how your side of politics views things, its intelligent statement to judge someone one on there hair color, gender, race or religion, etc..
Statements like this belong in the dark ages, as a Father of 2 and pop of 5 granddaughters, I would like to think that they can succeed without being judged regardless of the gender and 2 of them having there lovely red (ranga) hair...
Good Luck to our new PM..

But thats the way things go these days ..... Popular Politics ..... based solely on the personality of those put forward by there party. It does come down to more what they look like, what they wear, how they speak, more so on what they stand for or their policies. No one knows what her intentions are (except that she stood behind Rudd with all decision made ..... either too weak to speak out or stood in agreement)

If its not about being the most popular you only need to look at Madden in Vic who has NO clue and Garrett who has absolutely no idea what he is doing and there are examples in every area federal and state.

Listen to 3AW and the amount of ..... "I will vote for her because she is a women" really does make me physically ill.

Liberals have not got policies on the table yet so hard to say they will do better but history proves as someone has said above .... the Libs are elected to clean up the mess. It has always been the case.

We survived the GFC because of a healthy bank account, healthy banks, healthy mining industry. The only people that benefited from the hand outs was The Good Guys with Plasma sales. Bank account is gone, banks are untouchable and the mining industry is the only thing left .... we will pay it back no matter who is in power.

Will be an interesting few months in politics but how the media swung from a "We hate Rudd" to We love Julia" is astounding.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by seduced_xr

this really ***** me off, i see plenty of aussies sleeping on the streets in perth when im in the city on saturday nights. yet these illegals have been flown into WA and handed everything, went with mum to centrelink the other day, shes trying to claim something to try help pay the cost of living for my sister who has severe anxiety and just cant get herself to stay at a job..

I feel for your sister and those on the street, these are the real problems our politicians and society faces.
Lets hope things do improve as these are the real issues that society needs to get behind and push our politicians into fixing, instead we now moving money to things like Paid Maternity Leave which I am not against but would rather see tax payers money go to those who are really in need.
The other-side of the fence is saying they well bring in a much higher paying Paid Maternity Leave, go figure those that are already being feed should be feed more...whilst others need better heath care for some quality in there life.

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Will be an interesting few months in politics but how the media swung from a "We hate Rudd" to We love Julia" is astounding.

So has the poles, the media play a massive part in who we vote for, look at the Murdoch papers and the mining debate no balance.
Watch a program that gets all sides together has so advertising or political commitment it was an eye opener to watch..
Most politicians are so well off could make more money in the private sector if they wanted to, they dont becuase they dont need the money.
While we stroke car engines, its there ego's they want stroked...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

But thats the way things go these days ..... Popular Politics ..... based solely on the personality of those put forward by there party. It does come down to more what they look like, what they wear, how they speak, more so on what they stand for or their policies. No one knows what her intentions are (except that she stood behind Rudd with all decision made ..... either too weak to speak out or stood in agreement)

If its not about being the most popular you only need to look at Madden in Vic who has NO clue and Garrett who has absolutely no idea what he is doing and there are examples in every area federal and state.

Listen to 3AW and the amount of ..... "I will vote for her because she is a women" really does make me physically ill.

Liberals have not got policies on the table yet so hard to say they will do better but history proves as someone has said above .... the Libs are elected to clean up the mess. It has always been the case.

We survived the GFC because of a healthy bank account, healthy banks, healthy mining industry. The only people that benefited from the hand outs was The Good Guys with Plasma sales. Bank account is gone, banks are untouchable and the mining industry is the only thing left .... we will pay it back no matter who is in power.

Will be an interesting few months in politics but how the media swung from a "We hate Rudd" to We love Julia" is astounding.

Agree 100%..
You've described to a "T" Australian politics for the past 30 years...

I dont care if a woman or man, blonde or redhead lead the country, i want the right party with the right policy first and foremost.
The "spokesperson" is secondary....

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Will be an interesting few months in politics but how the media swung from a "We hate Rudd" to We love Julia" is astounding.

Media = Public Perception

Public Perception = Election

Media always pulls the strings, it's just who is pulling theirs that calls the shots.

+1 on real issues of Homeless and people with real disabilities, IMHO paid maternity is a another case of people being able to maintain a lifestyle that otherwise they wouldn't have been able to maintain.

[prydey]

these days, everyone wants their cake and eat it too.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by prydey

these days, everyone wants their cake and eat it too.

Everyone who earns it, deserves it.

[russellw]

Mark is correct in reminding everyone that politics is (in general) not on the list of things that we discuss here.

The thread has been allowed to continue as the news was of sufficient interest to merit allowing the members to have their say on the issue but if it heads down the general political discussion road then it will get a stop sign.

Cheers
Russ

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Dr Jekkyl

I can understand how someone might be very enthused by the mining industry in Australia. Especially if employed directly or indirectly by it. It is also easy to get caught up in the industry spin. Yes it creates jobs, yes it creates significant revenue for government, (not so sure about infrastructure), etc. BUT at the end of the day it employs only a small amount of Australian people. That number is approximately 178,000 which equates to around 1% of the Australian workforce. So if we also factor in indirect employment by your 5:2 ratio, that figure jumps to 1.4% - SFA really. There is an argument that an 'economic multiplier' of magnitude 4 is created by this industry i.e. for every mining job, 4 others are created. If we consider however that mining employs 6% of WA's population, then 1 in 4 people under this model are employed thanks to the mining industry. I feel very confident in saying that this is NOT the case.Undoubtedly the industry did play some part of Australia's avoiding of recession but to say that it was the sole, or at least major reason is foolish. Hell, mining shed ~15% of its workforce during the GFC. If every other industry acted this way then the s#*t really would have hit the fan.

On a related note, if one is to spruik the avoidance of recession being facilitated by mining then they too must concede that the impressive economic growth achieved under the Howard govt was also due to this and not superior economic management. Furthermore, this industry is also calling for the implementation of permits to employ foreign labour on a reasonably large scale. How does that grab the xenophobes?

I am perplexed as to how anybody could actually think that the mining industry has the best interests of the nation, or its people, at heart. The benefits of the mining of finite resources which ALL Australians can lay claim to are limited. The downsides are conversely experienced by many, many more and include, but are not limited to, housing pressures, wage pressures, environmental degradation and the decline of other industries, hence jobs.

So long as there are mineral deposits on this continent, mining companies will pillage the land to make a buck, regardless of a resources tax or not. One thing is for sure though - as soon as the mineral reserves are gone so too will the mining companies. I think it would we wise for this nation to get in now for our deserved share - only 3 things stand in the way of this; the mining plutocracy, their bed-fellows the Liberal Party and the gullible swinging voter.

You like the mining tax and want your slice of the resources pie, go buy mining shares. You can have as many slices as you like. Or, if you actually, seriously think you deserve some, go and BUY a mining license, get a SHOVEL and dig the ***** up yourself!!!!!

[FPV8U]

On our new PM, im wonder what the ALP plan is as far as public perception in my mind if they backflip on previous policy she will look silly for having heavily promoted the ideas less than a a few weeks ago and if they don't well they are still in the same boat as they were with K.Rudd at the wheel.

Genuine question, not trying to be a Smart @$$ here, i don't spend a huge amount of my spare time looking policy and government planning up.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

It appears we have a shift change in allowing political statements.
.
In a few months you will all get your say at the ballot box, then come back here and say she is not good for the Country ( ) even when elected democratically.
Surely someone has a chance to put there stamp on things and not to be judged by there hair color or gender.
I suppose that's how your side of politics views things, its intelligent statement to judge someone one on there hair color, gender, race or religion, etc..
Statements like this belong in the dark ages, as a Father of 2 and pop of 5 granddaughters, I would like to think that they can succeed without being judged regardless of the gender and 2 of them having there lovely red (ranga) hair...
Good Luck to our new PM..

Goes both ways, Tony ABBOTT has been critised in recent times due to his religious believes. In regard to gender, her party have made it an issue, as they hope to cash in on the female vote. I believe in politics it is all relevant.

[uranium_death]

Abbott is a fool.
Opening your mouth and saying, 'not everything i say is the truth' (or something along those lines) is suicide.

I get the feeling Abbott is very unpopular with women voters and is viewed as grossly insensitive and even arrogant.

Australia is a very naive country at times that is very easily swept up in novelties (Kevin07 anybody?). The fact that Gillard is female is going to work favourably for the Labor Party.
Many people will vote for her purely because she is female. I think it's insulting to Australia, to voters who have a clue, as well as Gillard herself. I am sure that she wants to be judged on her own merits rather than the fact that she doesn't have a dangling appendage between her legs.

Gillard is also very charismatic and unlike Rudd, lives quite modestly and therefore will somehow assimilate with 'working families' better than Rudd, who despite what he says, lives quite a privileged lifestyle.

I get the feeling that Gillard will absolutely eat Abbott at the polls for the above reasons.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Listen to 3AW and the amount of ..... "I will vote for her because she is a women" really does make me physically ill.

We should never underestimate the stupidity of Joe Public.

On the contrary I find the whole media beat up about our PM being a woman quite archaic. To me this proves they are surprised a woman is actually capable and made it to the top.

Here's hoping the collective electorates look past figureheads to the policies that will shape our country when the time comes.

*Edit, looking above I'm in before the inevitable lock.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

You like the mining tax and want your slice of the resources pie, go buy mining shares. You can have as many slices as you like. Or, if you actually, seriously think you deserve some, go and BUY a mining license, get a SHOVEL and dig the ***** up yourself!!!!!

Us as individuals may not deserve a cash slice of the mining pie. But those resources belong to the Australian population as a whole, and at the very least, some of the wealth generated by them should be distributed among the population in the way of things like social services, infastructure, health, education etc.

What if you found loads of oil or precious metals in your backyard. Would you allow some massive company in to mine it out, and pay you a pittance for the privelege, or would you expect to pocket every cent, seeing as it came from your land...

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

What if you found loads of oil or precious metals in your backyard. Would you allow some massive company in to mine it out, and pay you a pittance for the privelege, or would you expect to pocket every cent, seeing as it came from your land...

It's my backyard. And if I paid to create the infrastructure to pull it out of the ground, paid wages for people to operate the infrastructufe, sold the oil at a profit and paid tax on that profit it is in my opinion YOU are not entitled to a freebie. However, buy shares in my operation and you are entitled to a slice of the profits I make.

[Auslandau]

If we could stay away from the specifics and stick with the topic .... will keep the thread from imploding into an all out political debate which to this point has avoided and has managed to keep general and relating to the topic.

[XAGSV8]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Us as individuals may not deserve a cash slice of the mining pie. But those resources belong to the Australian population as a whole, and at the very least, some of the wealth generated by them should be distributed among the population in the way of things like social services, infastructure, health, education etc.

What if you found loads of oil or precious metals in your backyard. Would you allow some massive company in to mine it out, and pay you a pittance for the privelege, or would you expect to pocket every cent, seeing as it came from your land...

Please be aware the mining companies already pay for the minerals in the form of mining royalties to the states. So we are getting a slice of the pie so to speak. The resources belonging to Australia is only a catch cry for the current government to justify their reasoning behind the tax. Without this tax they have a 12 billion dollar hole they have to fill. If the minerals do belong to Australia the mining companies can simply leave it in the ground for us to dig up when we want it.

Back on topic. I hope the current PM does turn things around, regardless of who we vote for it is Australia's economy at stake. Whoever is in charge needs to do a good job or we will all suffer. KRudd's biggest problem was that he was a micromanager with no leadership skills. Leadership in this job is the most important factor and KRudd was simply too inexperienced. You have to empower and trust your team under you to perform as they are your biggest asset. When you try to take everything on yourself you will burn out and fail.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

On our new PM, im wonder what the ALP plan is as far as public perception in my mind if they backflip on previous policy she will look silly for having heavily promoted the ideas less than a a few weeks ago and if they don't well they are still in the same boat as they were with K.Rudd at the wheel.

Genuine question, not trying to be a Smart @$$ here, i don't spend a huge amount of my spare time looking policy and government planning up.

i believe she will hang Krudd out to dry. she will backflip and claim that is the direction she always wanted and the reason she challenged Rudd.

[SVD]

Originally Posted by XAGSV8

Please be aware the mining companies already pay for the minerals in the form of mining royalties to the states. So we are getting a slice of the pie so to speak. The resources belonging to Australia is only a catch cry for the current government to justify their reasoning behind the tax. Without this tax they have a 12 billion dollar hole they have to fill. If the minerals do belong to Australia the mining companies can simply leave it in the ground for us to dig up when we want it.

Back on topic. I hope the current PM does turn things around, regardless of who we vote for it is Australia's economy at stake. Whoever is in charge needs to do a good job or we will all suffer. KRudd's biggest problem was that he was a micromanager with no leadership skills. Leadership in this job is the most important factor and KRudd was simply too inexperienced. You have to empower and trust your team under you to perform as they are your biggest asset. When you try to take everything on yourself you will burn out and fail.

The current PM will be no better then the last PM, she isn't in that position for any good reasons, only that she is a good public figure (for now), is a woman, and that she suited the Unions needs at that point in time.

It's unfortunate, but thems the breaks.


As for the mining argument, i relate everything back to the Saudi's and their oil, they are two similar situations, one where most of the countries getting plundered for their resources are making quite a tidy bit of coin, the other, where majority of the country gets bent over a fence and majority of the population is saying it's fair because they've been told by the mining companies that it is fair.

[prydey]

as for the govt and taxes

they increase the tax on smokes to try to DIScourage the practice and they increase the tax on mining to ENcourage the practice

[SVD]

Originally Posted by prydey

as for the govt and taxes

they increase the tax on smokes to try to DIScourage the practice and they increase the tax on mining to ENcourage the practice

I'd dare say the increase would have also been to help foot some of the bill that they pick-up by all those who have been getting PBS Prescriptions to stop smoking, at work on average we get 4 people a day coming in for continuation packs of Champix (a PBS Covered drug full price of $180ish) that due to either their medicare or concession card pay either $33.30 or $5.40, its not a small bill to foot for people who CHOSE to smoke...

[XAGSV8]

Originally Posted by SVD

The current PM will be no better then the last PM, she isn't in that position for any good reasons, only that she is a good public figure (for now), is a woman, and that she suited the Unions needs at that point in time.

It's unfortunate, but thems the breaks.

I totally agree and have never voted for the current party in government. Regardless of who is in I alway's hope they will do a good job for the sake of the country. I just doubt anything will really change with the new leader other then the fact she is a puppet to her "bosses".

[Dodge]

bring back johny, frickn alp have given away all of the piggy bank savings to forign aid and single mums. now the countrys in the red again and they are looking for new ways to get it back, too scared to tax the filty rich , so they coming after the middle class to cover their losses, f this country , less the 0and ry from the last word.

[mik]

if i`m not mistaken the super tax was aimed at the huge profiteers and the little bloke would have got less tax, in any event i`d say it was less gillards work that got here the job(she just rode a wave of opportunity) and more the huge money players in mining and media that did most of it,
Personnaly i would have liked for Rudd to finish his term at least, leaders come and go but the easy way in which the direction of a country like ours can be swayed scares me, does any one remember when Packer got on his own tv channel (current affairs) and said on national tv i think John Howard would make a good pm, next thing you know the bloke is in office.
are we just sheep in a padock?

[SVD]

Originally Posted by mik

if i`m not mistaken the super tax was aimed at the huge profiteers and the little bloke would have got less tax, in any event i`d say it was less gillards work that got here the job(she just rode a wave of opportunity) and more the huge money players in mining and media that did most of it,
Personnaly i would have liked for Rudd to finish his term at least, leaders come and go but the easy way in which the direction of a country like ours can be swayed scares me, does any one remember when Packer got on his own tv channel (current affairs) and said on national tv i think John Howard would make a good pm, next thing you know the bloke is in office.
are we just sheep in a paddock?

please, sheep in a paddock have more freedom, we're more like cows in an abattoir.

[pottery beige]

more of the same shallow happy meals handed out to all the greatfull minions.. no depth or substance or actual real path forward for this country other than spend.. spend.. happy meals..... this ones just got a bigger nose and aint wearing a wig....

[bungarra]

The first thing she should do is put tarriffs back on imported vehicles if the company does not manufacter or assembles vehicles in Australia. Would stop the dumping of vehicles being manufactured with cheap forced labour out of a some countries.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by prydey

i believe she will hang Krudd out to dry. she will backflip and claim that is the direction she always wanted and the reason she challenged Rudd.

Good point. Every time Rudd was on TV announcing something - she was right next to him nodding away like a well trained dashboard dog. Seems a bit rich to now be trying to distance herself from some of things she appeared to enthusiastically endorse just a few weeks ago......

[pottery beige]

boatpeople.. lets see if it really has got balls....

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by SVD

In reality, i feel bad for Rudd...but i was still gonna give him the flick, and the labor party, as long as Conroy is still around...

Remember the Libs started this internet filter policy. Conroy just went on with it. When the government can bring in another form of control (and since 9/11 they have done their best to remove our freedom to keep us free) they will.

Originally Posted by |||

Tony is a good catholic man with sound christian values.

That's the main reason why I wouldn't want Abbott in power.

[mik]

maybe there is a new "iron lady" in town?