TRP Racing Ford Falcon XR6T runs 9.1@159mph, update 8.48@165mph. - Page 5

prasac · 03-11-2011, 11:13 AM

i know another shop with a full on race head done, i know they want to push the 1500hp mark. one of the owners has a really nice 3/4 chassis Mustang that they could put it in.

im surprised we haven't seen more. everyone seems to jump on the rotary or 2JZ wagon, you don't see many in Australia go a Ford 6-cylinder or DOHC V8. yet they are capable of so much hp.

CYC06T · 03-11-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

i know another shop with a full on race head done, i know they want to push the 1500hp mark. one of the owners has a really nice 3/4 chassis Mustang that they could put it in.

im surprised we haven't seen more. everyone seems to jump on the rotary or 2JZ wagon, you don't see many in Australia go a Ford 6-cylinder or DOHC V8. yet they are capable of so much hp.

Very true. The big challenge with the I6 is that they dont seem to want to rev much. Power really tails off over 6500rpm.

I hear that some workshops are looking to de-stroke the motor from 4l back to 3.6 or so. Will be interesting to see how it all goes.

prasac · 03-11-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYC06T

Very true. The big challenge with the I6 is that they dont seem to want to rev much. Power really tails off over 6500rpm.

I hear that some workshops are looking to de-stroke the motor from 4l back to 3.6 or so. Will be interesting to see how it all goes.

they do the same with the 5.4 Ford V8's in the US, they de-stroke them so they can spin to 10000rpm

i suppose it will work, but you sacrifice a bit of torque also.

what do you rev yours to?

CYC06T · 03-11-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

they do the same with the 5.4 Ford V8's in the US, they de-stroke them so they can spin to 10000rpm

i suppose it will work, but you sacrifice a bit of torque also.

what do you rev yours to?

yeah - I think it is a new area and I believe the hope is to spin one of these to 9000rpm like an RB or 2J. Mine revs out to 7500 but to go beyond that the power/torque just isnt worth it. Not in my setup anyways. Neither is the lifespan of the engine, so I keep that in mind, cos I dont wanna rebuild it every 5 mins.

I will even work on shifting earlier on my next few runs to see if I can get make sure to use the torque-iest part of the rev range and maximise the 2nd half of the track mph.

prasac · 03-11-2011, 01:31 PM

ok, kool. what's the converter locking up at around 6500rpm?

i have the same sentiments, why push an engine if you don't need to. however, if the 4L is anywhere near as tough as the Ford V8's they can take some punishment. 4.6L Ford V8's are spinning to 10,000rpm 52psi making 2500hp and they are doing 70-100 passes before pulling them down. 1500hp engines i hear doing over 200 passes. the little Toyota engine in the Capri has done over 150 dyno and 1/4 mile passes, been very good so far touch wood. the other brothers 2JZ has done close to 300 dyno runs and 1/4 passes it's crazy how strong these new DOHC motors are.

CYC06T · 03-11-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

ok, kool. what's the converter locking up at around 6500rpm?

i have the same sentiments, why push an engine if you don't need to. however, if the 4L is anywhere near as tough as the Ford V8's they can take some punishment. 4.6L Ford V8's are spinning to 10,000rpm 52psi making 2500hp and they are doing 70-100 passes before pulling them down. 1500hp engines i hear doing over 200 passes. the little Toyota engine in the Capri has done over 150 dyno and 1/4 mile passes, been very good so far touch wood. the other brothers 2JZ has done close to 300 dyno runs and 1/4 passes it's crazy how strong these new DOHC motors are.

Truthfully I am not sure what revs the converter is locking up at.

I am sure the motor can take some punishment, we have certainly had that in mind when we built it, but given it was the first one for TRP, we couldnt know until we got it out there and seen what happens. At the moment the motor is making good power on relatively low psi and seems to be reliable, now that we have good oil and cooling setup. It is achieiving the initial goals we have for it, so at the moment I am not keen to really lean on it too hard and risk destroying it and running up a big $ tab that I cant really afford right now.

If the car can deliver 100+ passes at this power level I would be stoked.

Having said that......as with all racing, if we can get it heading back towards a 7 sec pass, I am sure I will bend a little and have a crack at laying one down. It would be a big achievement!

One step at a time. I find it is easy to talk about stuff and a little harder to make it a reality. I also see that people wanting to make a big statement also tend to have more failures than wins and I dont want the car to cop a hit like the Turbowerx VL did at Jambo and destroy all the hard work in one go.

prasac · 03-11-2011, 02:36 PM

you got the right people behind you that's the first step, everyone has to start from somewhere. the bad thing is things cna go wrong, R&D isn't cheap.. it's good to have a little competition and personal goals also, makes you push that little bit harder, though that can get you in the end also

QIK1 · 03-11-2011, 02:53 PM

It will be interesting to see how these engines go with a few more revs (9000), a better ability to breath and 50 plus psi, I think we can expect to see that 7's aren't that far away with reasonable reliability. Money wise it's probably out of the normal persons grasp but it should be possible.

Phil did trp have to change much in the bay to fit the 47 and have they turned it up yet to see how it goes on the rollers?

prasac · 03-11-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QIK1

It will be interesting to see how these engines go with a few more revs (9000), a better ability to breath and 50 plus psi, I think we can expect to see that 7's aren't that far away with reasonable reliability. Money wise it's probably out of the normal persons grasp but it should be possible.

Phil did trp have to change much in the bay to fit the 47 and have they turned it up yet to see how it goes on the rollers?

will be interesting when someone decides to invest. i've become very interested in these engines of late.

you don't see many drag cars with big power getting run up on the dyno. might do a few passes to get a base but the rest is done at the track dependant on condition etc. then again maybe it was completely tuned on the dyno

going off the mph and weight of the car it'd be making around 1300-1400hp @ the engine.

CYC06T · 03-11-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QIK1

It will be interesting to see how these engines go with a few more revs (9000), a better ability to breath and 50 plus psi, I think we can expect to see that 7's aren't that far away with reasonable reliability. Money wise it's probably out of the normal persons grasp but it should be possible.

Phil did trp have to change much in the bay to fit the 47 and have they turned it up yet to see how it goes on the rollers?

Sure will. I have a feeling it will take a workshop car to really push these engines and car setups to an extreme level. I guess the question always will be whether you do it in such a heavy car, or if you go straight to a tube chassis car and go for really impressive ETs. Heavy cars just put so much more stress on all other components.

We didnt change anything to fit the 47 in. It fit when all of the original factory gear was still there ie. the power steering reservoir and the radiator overflow tank. All we had to do wa put a bit of thought into the manifold design to make sure the wastegate was reasonably accessible and that we could shut the bonnet.

Honestly we havent turned it up on the rollers. We couldnt get it to stop spinning the tyres at 36-38psi, so we never fed a heap more boost into it to see what was going to happen. We really wanted to get the car out there and just see what times it could pull. Obviously its working reasonably well so far,and Im sure it did surprise the boys that it went under 8.50 pretty easily, so we know we are atleast heading in the right direction. The plan was always for me to get behind the wheel, and we all knew that it would take a few meets to get up to speed, so there hasnt been a need to revisit the dyno yet. I would probably want to invest in a billet crank to feel comfortable in really turning up the wick.

If I were able to go better than the 8.48 in the next few meets, depending on how much better we run, I would have a think about where to next. I would probably look at stripping more weight out before just pumping more boost in. Maybe I'll just say F@ck it and do both....he he he

CYC06T · 03-11-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

will be interesting when someone decides to invest. i've become very interested in these engines of late.

you don't see many drag cars with big power getting run up on the dyno. might do a few passes to get a base but the rest is done at the track dependant on condition etc. then again maybe it was completely tuned on the dyno

going off the mph and weight of the car it'd be making around 1300-1400hp @ the engine.

You are right, only a few pulls on the dyno to make sure everything was crisp and it could rev out. The rest at the track at this stage. You could put it on a big hub dyno if you wanted to tune it completely on the dyno, but track conditions differ a heap, so some flexibility by tuning on the day is pretty handy and has to be done anyways.

QIK1 · 03-11-2011, 05:20 PM

Dlm will be Using the new 3.6 eng in there car. Already has all the fruit and then some but still based on the manual but once theyve got what they want out of that there's already an auto waiting to go in and get real serious.

I was always told losing weight is almost as good as more hp so no doubt when yas go down this path if yas go all out there will be alot to gain particularly out of the hole with abit of a change to the setup no doubt. As for more power and turning the wheels we're still struggling with ours, we're havin to strap down bloody hard and use 5th gear and even then it's still turning the tyres high in the rpm, that's when we're not breaking stuff lol so can only imagine the fun ya havin with yours!!!

sideways82 · 03-11-2011, 05:33 PM

5th - no wonder you break shiz all the time

CYC06T · 03-11-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QIK1

Dlm will be Using the new 3.6 eng in there car. Already has all the fruit and then some but still based on the manual but once theyve got what they want out of that there's already an auto waiting to go in and get real serious.

I was always told losing weight is almost as good as more hp so no doubt when yas go down this path if yas go all out there will be alot to gain particularly out of the hole with abit of a change to the setup no doubt. As for more power and turning the wheels we're still struggling with ours, we're havin to strap down bloody hard and use 5th gear and even then it's still turning the tyres high in the rpm, that's when we're not breaking stuff lol so can only imagine the fun ya havin with yours!!!

Yeah, I had heard thats what was being used to power the beast. So the previous envy car is now a DLM car that has gone back to manual to clean up and will then go the auto. Looks like there are big plans in place - like all, I am interested to see what happens with a de-stroked motor.

As for your build, I completely understand as far as the dyno goes. The torque and aggressive power delivery makes it really hard to get an accurate run. Id love to say that breaking stuff is half the fun, but it is also frustrating, time consuming and expensive, so there are downsides.

It will be good to get your gearbox sorted and back on the rollers. Cant wait.

prasac · 03-11-2011, 11:07 PM

who is DLM? is that Dragon's Lair Motorsports or something? they are putting their engine into the Envy Dyno old car?

i have seen so many people damage engine and break parts on the dyno they get all upset. i tell them, imagine if they were out at the track and it happened. it could cost you your life, let alone the car. 300km/h + slicks + water/oil/coolant, usually doesn't end very happily

that's why we always tend to go overkill on everything.

SteveJH · 03-11-2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

who is DLM? is that Dragon's Lair Motorsports or something? they are putting their engine into the Envy Dyno old car?

Yeah, Dragon's Lair Motorsport.

He's using his own car, I think he's also got bits and pieces floating around in 2-3 others including one of the guys from Elite....

Check the 600kw+ section on xr6t forum plus their sponsor section if you want more info on them...

QIK1 · 04-11-2011, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sideways82

5th - no wonder you break shiz all the time

Have only used 5th the day we broke stuff and only because it's pretty much 1:1 with the diff gears we have at the moment.

Dlm are using there own car for the main build but also have another car with all the fruit as well but it'll be slightly different. As for other gear I'm pretty sure the staged kits have been put in boges car from elite and jamies from fpt.

CYC06T · 04-11-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QIK1

Have only used 5th the day we broke stuff and only because it's pretty much 1:1 with the diff gears we have at the moment.

Dlm are using there own car for the main build but also have another car with all the fruit as well but it'll be slightly different. As for other gear I'm pretty sure the staged kits have been put in boges car from elite and jamies from fpt.

I knew Spiro would be bringing his car out with a 3.6Lt in it push for the fastest manual and then the fastest auto cars.

I heard at Jambo that Envy were bringing out a 3.6lt as well, but there may have been confusion with DLM.

I saw on another forum that DLM and ASSIST were building something. Isnt ASSIST the numebr plate on the envy car?

Its all good - keeping the competition guessing is all part of the fun. Its great to see more R&D into these cars and some new combos coming out. Keeps the sport healthy and alive and intersting.

prasac · 04-11-2011, 09:36 AM

i haven't heard of DLM before are they new on the scene or have they had another car out before? i'd be interested to see if Errol Quartermaine steps up also. he has been running 7's for a few years when it was in a Torana, now has the Falcon also.

ASSIST is the Envy Dyno car.

CYC06T · 04-11-2011, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

i haven't heard of DLM before are they new on the scene or have they had another car out before? i'd be interested to see if Errol Quartermaine steps up also. he has been running 7's for a few years when it was in a Torana, now has the Falcon also.

ASSIST is the Envy Dyno car.

Yeah DLM is new on the scene based out of Qld. They have a cool website and are really progressing at setting up a ford turbo 6 performance outfit. Their website is worth a look, very well set-up.

Spiro, the owner (or one of the owners) is well known in the scene and has a very nicely prepared XR6 turbo. It has yet to make its debut with its new setup, but I am sure it will cause a splash from what I have seen. The guys have close ties to Brad from Atomic.

I have seen a few comments about a relationship between DLM and ASSIST, so not sure if the Envy guys are doing some work together??? Time will tell.

I havent seen/heard anything much more about Errol since he ran the 7.80s a while back. A full tube car like his/yours would be off the chart.

prasac · 05-11-2011, 09:26 AM

ok kool, it's good to see new blood out there. helps push everyone harder.

i think Errol races in Super Comp they are limited to a certain amount of boost that they are allowed to run, they are cube to weight and they run on an index (he might be holding back so as not to lower the index). yeah i don't remember hearing anything better than a 7.80@178 in the Falcon.

CYC06T · 06-11-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

ok kool, it's good to see new blood out there. helps push everyone harder.

i think Errol races in Super Comp they are limited to a certain amount of boost that they are allowed to run, they are cube to weight and they run on an index (he might be holding back so as not to lower the index). yeah i don't remember hearing anything better than a 7.80@178 in the Falcon.

Errol's definitely one to keep an eye out for in the future. He's really the only one running a twin turbo setup at a serious level.

I am looking to get the car out to the Full Throttle Friday on the 18th if all goes to plan. Should be good!

prasac · 06-11-2011, 05:34 PM

see ya there. pretty sure we are going out, think just going to leave it on the United E85 tune and see how we go. then test out the new fuel, we created our own little ethanol mix, so looking to see how it compares with the Platinum E85 race fuel we used to run. have about 400L it works out about 25% cheaper, higher octane and hopefully more consistent

CYC06T · 07-11-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

see ya there. pretty sure we are going out, think just going to leave it on the United E85 tune and see how we go. then test out the new fuel, we created our own little ethanol mix, so looking to see how it compares with the Platinum E85 race fuel we used to run. have about 400L it works out about 25% cheaper, higher octane and hopefully more consistent

Sounds good on mixing your own blend on the E85. We get ours from a local guy. I dont know the details, but it is about $55 for 20 litres. I have seen VPW in VIC do a 205lt E85 drum for $450 odd. It is supposed to be comparable to a 110 octane rating. I have considered getting a drum of it to have at home. Not sure on the octane rating of the juice we are currently using. I will try and suss out.

prasac · 07-11-2011, 10:51 AM

as long as it's pretty consistent within a few % all the time that is the main thing especially when racing. we used to run the Caltex E-Flex on the street we checked the ethanol it was 72%, so far the United E85 has been the most consistent it runs between 80-90% ethanol. the ethanol likes it a little fat, we usually run 11.5-11.8 @ the track, on the dyno was showing most power around 11.9-12.1 AFR but no point runing it that lean for an extra 10rwhp

we have run as fat as 10.1 and as lean as 14.0 on the track, it was losing a few mph. luckily on the 14.0 we didn't lose more than just a few mph, the E85 and engine proved just how resilient it was that run. Joe saw the AFR's that high but it wasn't popping and it was still pulling so he kept into it

CYC06T · 07-11-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

as long as it's pretty consistent within a few % all the time that is the main thing especially when racing. we used to run the Caltex E-Flex on the street we checked the ethanol it was 72%, so far the United E85 has been the most consistent it runs between 80-90% ethanol. the ethanol likes it a little fat, we usually run 11.5-11.8 @ the track, on the dyno was showing most power around 11.9-12.1 AFR but no point runing it that lean for an extra 10rwhp

we have run as fat as 10.1 and as lean as 14.0 on the track, it was losing a few mph. luckily on the 14.0 we didn't lose more than just a few mph, the E85 and engine proved just how resilient it was that run. Joe saw the AFR's that high but it wasn't popping and it was still pulling so he kept into it

You wouldnt want to run at an AFR of 14 for too long, or there will be a nice big BANG Im sure. Damn.....

I have some spare United E85 at home, although I am not sure how long you can have it sitting there without using it?? Its been there since early this year.

prasac · 07-11-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYC06T

You wouldnt want to run at an AFR of 14 for too long, or there will be a nice big BANG Im sure. Damn.....

I have some spare United E85 at home, although I am not sure how long you can have it sitting there without using it?? Its been there since early this year.

it was the whole pass

he knows the car and engine very well, he backs off soon as he hears/feels something he doesnt like. the car is like his baby he would never intentionally hurt it

as long as it's sitting off the ground and not sucking in moisture it can last a while. i have heard years, but, i'd be tempted to get a new batch every 6-12 months. more on the 6 month side.

CYC06T · 07-11-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

it was the whole pass

he knows the car and engine very well, he backs off soon as he hears/feels something he doesnt like. the car is like his baby he would never intentionally hurt it

as long as it's sitting off the ground and not sucking in moisture it can last a while. i have heard years, but, i'd be tempted to get a new batch every 6-12 months. more on the 6 month side.

Fair enough - I know how it feels to love your car like its a child or something! I wouldnt intentionally do anything to damage it!

prasac · 07-11-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYC06T

Fair enough - I know how it feels to love your car like its a child or something! I wouldnt intentionally do anything to damage it!

i love my little nugget also. only bad thing is it's a Dodge and not a Ford

CYC06T · 07-11-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

i love my little nugget also. only bad thing is it's a Dodge and not a Ford

They are hard not to love - as you put so much effort (and coin) into em!

Any eta on when yours will be making a track appearance? It is such an epic build.