So "In 5 Years' time we'll all be driving Chinese cars" - how's that working out?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

No specific fault being directed at you. Was a general observation, based on personal experience of late, which highlights some hypocrisy.

Its a bit like the advance nations having reaped all the benefits from fossil fuels, and then now telling developing nations they can't do the same . Good luck with that one.

ok then, why is it my generations fault that our parents decided to have a bucket load of kids - we didn't have a say in it. On my mothers side I am one of 41 grandchildren, please tell me how is that my generations fault

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

as a full time taxpayer since the age of 15, what's the problem? I contributed to the growth of the country for 51 years and I contributed a LOT to the ATO over the years and now you sook because I want an age pension. BTW, I am mostly a self-funded retiree.

With all your blustering you seem to miss a lot of facts Franco

Meh, I've been working since I was 15 as well, its not particularly rare amongst working class people, I've also worked with a bunch of children in the workplace too who are doing casual gigs on weekends/outside of school hours or on school holidays getting their first start in the world.

And yes you may have contributed a lot to the ATO over your 51 years, but aged pension is a welfare payment.

I don't have a problem looking after people who need help, whether its aged pension, dole, public education and healthcare, the stuff that makes us a first world nation.

The attitude of 'I paid my taxes, I DESERVE the pension', rather gives me the shits, especially when it comes from people who are well kitted out in their retirement years, rocking into Centrelink with 7 figures in the bank, multiple investment properties then put on a song and dance about how they deserve the pension because they've paid their taxes

Put context around it,

Yeah you (generalisation) paid taxes, and a lot of them over the circa 50 years of your career,

However,

You used the roads,
You used the public health care system,
Your children were educated, maybe in the public education system, even the private one gets lots of tax payer funding
Your house has water, sewage and power infrastructure, funded by the tax payer

If we want to play 'I paid my taxes!' game, then lets put context around it and lets look at net benefit of your taxes for the ATO vs what you received back in public funded services and infrastructure from the government.

There's a few of us here with no children, and these people contribute significantly more taxes than what they receive back in this day and age with all the childcare subsidies and payments from the boffins over at Services Australia, also the fact they're not having children educated by the system, or being looked after healthcare wise.

Particularly if we've got any DINKs here (dual income, no kids) - these people are peak cash cow for the ATO in that they're a net contributor to taxes.

Be careful about pulling the 'I've paid my taxes!' card, because everything can pretty easily go to a 'user pays' system if we want, and that will sort out the men from the boys, personally, that's a disaster if we go down that path for the people who require a bit of looking after.

These are the 'facts' you accuse me of not knowing, and if we bring these facts into the argument, it isn't going to bode well for the people in our society who need help, if we make policy according to the facts of the matter.

If we've got any of you here who are aged pension aged, and want their full rate of pension 'entitlement', I can organise this for you very easily, because I'm a good bloke.

Excluding family home, if you've got assets exceeding $451,500 anything above this limit, just give it all to me and I'll make sure you get your $43,000/year you will be entitled to as a married couple

Every thousand bucks over that $451,500 asset limit you lose a little bit of pension.

That will be $50 ($45.45+ GST) for my aged pension entitlement advice, invoice in the mail

Take the emotion out of the argument, I'm not talking about you as a person, I'm talking in broad strokes and generalisations, I see you thinking I'm comparing me to your parents and their time through the great depression, I'm comparing me to my parents (which is 'you' - as the generalisation).

For the record, your parents are about the equivalents of my grand parents, and they lived (and fought) in WWII in Europe. They didn't begrudge 'how easy' the coming generation had it when they moved to Australia and had kids, they were just happy they were able to provide 'social mobility' and moved upwards.

If I was in the situation where my hypothetical children are going backwards in living standards, I wouldn't look at how they have a phone and the internet and complain how I had to use text books at school. I'd be trying to find the root cause of the problem and trying to work on a solution on how we fix this and prevent it from happening.

There's a cohort of your generation (in Australia) who copped a hard time, and its the ones born right after WWII, the ones who ended up forced into the Vietnam War enforcing US foreign policy in a humid jungle, to come home and end up getting treated like shit for their efforts - there's even one (or a few) here on AFF.

Where as I look at my parents, and while they had some challenges it was mostly self-induced, but they had a pretty sweet run through compared to what I'm faced with when it comes to housing, employment, and competing with 100+ other people every time you apply for a job.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

ok then, why is it my generations fault that our parents decided to have a bucket load of kids - we didn't have a say in it. On my mothers side I am one of 41 grandchildren, please tell me how is that my generations fault

You've lost me. Show me where we are talking about faults and maybe I can try again.

[Franco Cozzo]

If anyone here likes movies, go watch 'Falling Down',

The film stars Michael Douglas as William Foster, a divorced and unemployed former defense engineer. It centers on Foster's trek across the city of Los Angeles as he attempts to reach the house of his estranged ex-wife in time for his daughter's birthday. Along the way, a series of encounters, both trivial and provocative, cause him to react with increasing violence and to make sardonic observations on life, poverty, the economy, and commercialism.

Its a movie from 1993 and its more relevant today than it was 30+ years ago when it released in cinemas

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Meh, I've been working since I was 15 as well, its not particularly rare amongst working class people, I've also worked with a bunch of children in the workplace too who are doing casual gigs on weekends/outside of school hours or on school holidays getting their first start in the world.

And yes you may have contributed a lot to the ATO over your 51 years, but aged pension is a welfare payment.

I don't have a problem looking after people who need help, whether its aged pension, dole, public education and healthcare, the stuff that makes us a first world nation.

The attitude of 'I paid my taxes, I DESERVE the pension', rather gives me the shits, especially when it comes from people who are well kitted out in their retirement years, rocking into Centrelink with 7 figures in the bank, multiple investment properties then put on a song and dance about how they deserve the pension because they've paid their taxes

Put context around it,

Yeah you (generalisation) paid taxes, and a lot of them over the circa 50 years of your career,

However,

You used the roads,
You used the public health care system,
Your children were educated, maybe in the public education system, even the private one gets lots of tax payer funding
Your house has water, sewage and power infrastructure, funded by the tax payer

If we want to play 'I paid my taxes!' game, then lets put context around it and lets look at net benefit of your taxes for the ATO vs what you received back in public funded services and infrastructure from the government.

There's a few of us here with no children, and these people contribute significantly more taxes than what they receive back in this day and age with all the childcare subsidies and payments from the boffins over at Services Australia, also the fact they're not having children educated by the system, or being looked after healthcare wise.

Particularly if we've got any DINKs here (dual income, no kids) - these people are peak cash cow for the ATO in that they're a net contributor to taxes.

Be careful about pulling the 'I've paid my taxes!' card, because everything can pretty easily go to a 'user pays' system if we want, and that will sort out the men from the boys, personally, that's a disaster if we go down that path for the people who require a bit of looking after.

These are the 'facts' you accuse me of not knowing, and if we bring these facts into the argument, it isn't going to bode well for the people in our society who need help, if we make policy according to the facts of the matter.

If we've got any of you here who are aged pension aged, and want their full rate of pension 'entitlement', I can organise this for you very easily, because I'm a good bloke.

Excluding family home, if you've got assets exceeding $451,500 anything above this limit, just give it all to me and I'll make sure you get your $43,000/year you will be entitled to as a married couple

Every thousand bucks over that $451,500 asset limit you lose a little bit of pension.

That will be $50 ($45.45+ GST) for my aged pension entitlement advice, invoice in the mail

Take the emotion out of the argument, I'm not talking about you as a person, I'm talking in broad strokes and generalisations, I see you thinking I'm comparing me to your parents and their time through the great depression, I'm comparing me to my parents (which is 'you' - as the generalisation).

For the record, your parents are about the equivalents of my grand parents, and they lived (and fought) in WWII in Europe. They didn't begrudge 'how easy' the coming generation had it when they moved to Australia and had kids, they were just happy they were able to provide 'social mobility' and moved upwards.

If I was in the situation where my hypothetical children are going backwards in living standards, I wouldn't look at how they have a phone and the internet and complain how I had to use text books at school. I'd be trying to find the root cause of the problem and trying to work on a solution on how we fix this and prevent it from happening.

There's a cohort of your generation (in Australia) who copped a hard time, and its the ones born right after WWII, the ones who ended up forced into the Vietnam War enforcing US foreign policy in a humid jungle, to come home and end up getting treated like shit for their efforts - there's even one (or a few) here on AFF.

Where as I look at my parents, and while they had some challenges it was mostly self-induced, but they had a pretty sweet run through compared to what I'm faced with when it comes to housing, employment, and competing with 100+ other people every time you apply for a job.

Franco is an expert at this stuff.
No-true.
A very close relative works for ....wait for it......Centrelink.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The attitude of 'I paid my taxes, I DESERVE the pension', rather gives me the shits, especially when it comes from people who are well kitted out in their retirement years, rocking into Centrelink with 7 figures in the bank, multiple investment properties then put on a song and dance about how they deserve the pension because they've paid their taxes

Truest words I've ever heard, I can never understand why other than pure greed, retirees bang on how they want the pension when they can fully support themselves in their own super benefits.


Anyhow back on topic, I don't think we all will be driving Chinese cars in 5 years' time when most Aussies still have reasonable choices of other makes to choose from, well I certainly won't be looking to purchase any Chinese vehicles at all in my lifetime.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

You've lost me. Show me where we are talking about faults and maybe I can try again.

You were slagging off at Boomers. I want to know how it is their fault they were born when they were. Why is it their fault their parents have large families

Are you aware that Boomers paid for the debt generated by WWII. Every generation pays the debt of the previous generation, it is the way of the world

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Truest words I've ever heard, I can never understand why other than pure greed, retirees bang on how they want the pension when they can fully support themselves in their own super benefits.


Anyhow back on topic, I don't think we all will be driving Chinese cars in 5 years' time when most Aussies still have reasonable choices of other makes to choose from, well I certainly won't be looking to purchase any Chinese vehicles at all in my lifetime.

The big problem with that part of Franco's argument is that he factually incorrect, your age test is means tested, the family home isn't counted but all the stuff in it is, cars are, furniture is, etc. Superannuation is counted etc etc. I know I have just been trough the pricess

[Trevor 57]

Do you see me whinge about your generation not having enough kids to pick up the tax burden, it is that bad we have import people to pay for stuff

Our generation is known for being hard working, your generation is known for whingeing 'oh whoa is me'

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Meh, I've been working since I was 15 as well, its not particularly rare amongst working class people, I've also worked with a bunch of children in the workplace too who are doing casual gigs on weekends/outside of school hours or on school holidays getting their first start in the world.

And yes you may have contributed a lot to the ATO over your 51 years, but aged pension is a welfare payment.

I don't have a problem looking after people who need help, whether its aged pension, dole, public education and healthcare, the stuff that makes us a first world nation.

The attitude of 'I paid my taxes, I DESERVE the pension', rather gives me the shits, especially when it comes from people who are well kitted out in their retirement years, rocking into Centrelink with 7 figures in the bank, multiple investment properties then put on a song and dance about how they deserve the pension because they've paid their taxes

Put context around it,

Yeah you (generalisation) paid taxes, and a lot of them over the circa 50 years of your career,

However,

You used the roads,
You used the public health care system,
Your children were educated, maybe in the public education system, even the private one gets lots of tax payer funding
Your house has water, sewage and power infrastructure, funded by the tax payer

If we want to play 'I paid my taxes!' game, then lets put context around it and lets look at net benefit of your taxes for the ATO vs what you received back in public funded services and infrastructure from the government.

There's a few of us here with no children, and these people contribute significantly more taxes than what they receive back in this day and age with all the childcare subsidies and payments from the boffins over at Services Australia, also the fact they're not having children educated by the system, or being looked after healthcare wise.

Particularly if we've got any DINKs here (dual income, no kids) - these people are peak cash cow for the ATO in that they're a net contributor to taxes.

Be careful about pulling the 'I've paid my taxes!' card, because everything can pretty easily go to a 'user pays' system if we want, and that will sort out the men from the boys, personally, that's a disaster if we go down that path for the people who require a bit of looking after.

These are the 'facts' you accuse me of not knowing, and if we bring these facts into the argument, it isn't going to bode well for the people in our society who need help, if we make policy according to the facts of the matter.

If we've got any of you here who are aged pension aged, and want their full rate of pension 'entitlement', I can organise this for you very easily, because I'm a good bloke.

Excluding family home, if you've got assets exceeding $451,500 anything above this limit, just give it all to me and I'll make sure you get your $43,000/year you will be entitled to as a married couple

Every thousand bucks over that $451,500 asset limit you lose a little bit of pension.

That will be $50 ($45.45+ GST) for my aged pension entitlement advice, invoice in the mail

Take the emotion out of the argument, I'm not talking about you as a person, I'm talking in broad strokes and generalisations, I see you thinking I'm comparing me to your parents and their time through the great depression, I'm comparing me to my parents (which is 'you' - as the generalisation).

For the record, your parents are about the equivalents of my grand parents, and they lived (and fought) in WWII in Europe. They didn't begrudge 'how easy' the coming generation had it when they moved to Australia and had kids, they were just happy they were able to provide 'social mobility' and moved upwards.

If I was in the situation where my hypothetical children are going backwards in living standards, I wouldn't look at how they have a phone and the internet and complain how I had to use text books at school. I'd be trying to find the root cause of the problem and trying to work on a solution on how we fix this and prevent it from happening.

There's a cohort of your generation (in Australia) who copped a hard time, and its the ones born right after WWII, the ones who ended up forced into the Vietnam War enforcing US foreign policy in a humid jungle, to come home and end up getting treated like shit for their efforts - there's even one (or a few) here on AFF.

Where as I look at my parents, and while they had some challenges it was mostly self-induced, but they had a pretty sweet run through compared to what I'm faced with when it comes to housing, employment, and competing with 100+ other people every time you apply for a job.

It’s the wrong weather for fishing Damo… Only the true diehards expect a bite on these chilly days! (Though you’ll probably get lucky with a few bored, malnourished fishies?)

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's a few of us here with no children, and these people contribute significantly more taxes than what they receive back in this day and age with all the childcare subsidies and payments from the boffins over at Services Australia, also the fact they're not having children educated by the system, or being looked after healthcare wise.

Particularly if we've got any DINKs here (dual income, no kids) - these people are peak cash cow for the ATO in that they're a net contributor to taxes.

Tell me about it, along with not being connected to the grid, never using medicare / Centrlink, ever receiving a first home buyers grant or solar rebate in the build.
But that's my choice.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

You were slagging off at Boomers. I want to know how it is their fault they were born when they were. Why is it their fault their parents have large families

Are you aware that Boomers paid for the debt generated by WWII. Every generation pays the debt of the previous generation, it is the way of the world

I was slagging criticising the hypocrites. The ones that are advocating against behaviour and policies that they themselves enjoyed all the benefits of. If that is not you, then you have nothing to worry about.

So going back on topic, have you driven a chinesium car? Thoughts?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

The big problem with that part of Franco's argument is that he factually incorrect, your age test is means tested, the family home isn't counted but all the stuff in it is, cars are, furniture is, etc. Superannuation is counted etc etc. I know I have just been trough the pricess

Which is exactly what I said, $451,500 in assets, which could be cars, caravan, super, your jocks, $451,500.

I suspect I understand how the aged pension system works better than most

[.:4:.]

Thing with the cheaper chinese cars is, pretty soon they will flood the used car market. Mainly because companies in general buy/lease their fleets so every 3 to 5 years replace them. So its all about cost cutting. As long as it lasts that time, they dont care about longevity of a vehicle. I also see these days managers for trade companies are getting their sr5s replaced with t60s and such. Similar luxuries as the perk of the pay packet but again, a lot cheaper.
Never driven a Chinese car, but have had them as youber rides. They seem to be, interior wise, much more disposable then cars of 20-30 years ago. That being said i had a polestar thing youber once and interior seemed decent quality but very sparce. As in no rear ac vents or map pockets on the back of the front seats.

[Captain Stubing]

I think the topic relating to Chinese cars has been exhausted for now.