Alright AFF, lets lower the road toll...: Solutions

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

I think his lawyer had a lot to do with it, Oh and are you talking about John Singleton?

Yes it was and dont forget he was also transported on the wings of classical music to an astral plane where speed meant nothing . What a croc of **** , I wonder how much he bunged the judge ?
This guy is VERMIN he and Liz Hayes ( for the 5 minutes they were married ) moved to Castlereagh and were the driving force in getting Castlereagh Drag Strip shutdown .

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by XCwillo

...and then only to be rewarded with people telling me I can't do certain things because most people my age are too stupid to do the right thing...

this does not only apply to 'teenagers' or Learner/Provisionals, this can apply to just about any Gummint regulation at the moment.

Speaking of these "Around the block and reverse park" tests, it's easy to forget there were considerably less vehicles / traffic on the roads back then and cars (in general) were far more underpowered, so given the circumstances there was far less likelihood of crashing into something unless you were really having a moment. My first licence was paper and I just missed out on the "Traffic Sergeant" riding shotgun - I had one of the first RTA Assessors scrutinizing me.

The considerably more relaxed views on traffic control & licensing reflected the considerably less incidents (whether reported or not) on 'Learner / Provisionals' falling off the road, and I suspect the far less beligerence and selfishness of drivers in general. It's far too crowded, among other things; now so there needs to be tighter (read: not Draconian) regulation and policing in general, just to keep some semblance of control amid the chaos.

Everyone likes to think they are special and not subject to the road rules because "it's them, and they know how good a driver they are" or whatever...well...newsflash...not everyone is as good as they think they are or or impervious from having 'moments' whether they are deliberate or accidental... and I am not refering to anyone specifically or necessarily on this forum so; easy with the flamethrowers.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

C) P Platers, ban them from driving after 8 pm at night,

AHAHAH Many P platers still go to school and Uni during the day, and then work in the evening.
Perhaps instead of a blanket ban on all P platers, more cops should be on the road after 8pm looking for the Hoon P platers that are out looking for drag races.

I am on my P's and I start work at 8pm sometimes.... and I drive for my job.

Staring work at 8pm of a Friday or Saturday night is interesting. I see quite a few morons on the road, a lot of them are not P platers.


The problem is not P platers, its IDIOTS. Doesn't matter if they have had their license for 20 days, or 20 years. Stupid drivers should be the ones getting in trouble. Not just punishing all P platers because some people are morons.

[Trevor 57]

People of all ages make mistakes, it is the lack of concentration that is one of the biggest issues, that plus the over-estimation of skills and knowledge.

The driving task is just too big for some people - full stop, but how do you sort them out from the rest, well licencing testing should do it, but our soft-**** approach to licencing does not help.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

People of all ages make mistakes, it is the lack of concentration that is one of the biggest issues, that plus the over-estimation of skills and knowledge.

The driving task is just too big for some people - full stop, but how do you sort them out from the rest, well licencing testing should do it, but our soft-**** approach to licencing does not help.

Absolutely true.

It is a shame that all drivers are not re-tested at every license renewal, particularly in the theory component.

I am quite sure more than half of the drivers on the road have no idea how to negotiate a roundabout or multi-lane carriageway.

[dylancox]

Originally Posted by flappist

Absolutely true.

It is a shame that all drivers are not re-tested at every license renewal, particularly in the theory component.

I am quite sure more than half of the drivers on the road have no idea how to negotiate a roundabout or multi-lane carriageway.

Also, more than half of the drivers on the road don't understand the dangers of driving a poorly maintained, unroadworthy car. With Victoria at least, a car can be bought once with a RWC and will never need to be checked again for as long as the owner keeps the car continuously registered.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dylancox

Also, more than half of the drivers on the road don't understand the dangers of driving a poorly maintained, unroadworthy car. With Victoria at least, a car can be bought once with a RWC and will never need to be checked again for as long as the owner keeps the car continuously registered.

No No No ...... Bob Jane All Rounders are just as good a Yokohama Advan 103s especially when all that noisy tread stuff has finally worn off.

And your "super bling" mags don't get as dirty when there is none of that horrible black stuff left in the brakes.

And most importantly, stripes and body kits make up for unbalanced geometry due to cut springs and worn out shock absorbers and look sooooo much better.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

People of all ages make mistakes, it is the lack of concentration that is one of the biggest issues, that plus the over-estimation of skills and knowledge.

The driving task is just too big for some people - full stop, but how do you sort them out from the rest, well licencing testing should do it, but our soft-**** approach to licencing does not help.

Yes how can we sort them out or wake them up.
Peoples ATTERTUDE & ignorance how many people know of some useless driver who has a licence but should not really have one.

Like i will not get in a car with some, not because they drive to fast but because they are just hopeless & foolish idiot drivers.
And there most likely the 98% of the ones who do believe in all the government spin.

But if any gov authority was to say for this lot to prove them selves in a practical test they would object strongly and the gov know it.

If you cause an accident you should have to prove your self competent.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by dylancox

Also, more than half of the drivers on the road don't understand the dangers of driving a poorly maintained, unroadworthy car. With Victoria at least, a car can be bought once with a RWC and will never need to be checked again for as long as the owner keeps the car continuously registered.

I have seen Victorian statistics that quite clearly state that un-roadworthy cars make up less than 1% of all serious and fatal crashes.

The un-roadworthiness of a car has very little impact in accidents statistics. It is attitude, skill & lack of concentration that cause the vast majority of accident stats - sorry.

The whole "un-roadworthy" stuff is put out into the media by the likes of NMRA. RACV, etc to push business to their members.

[flappist]

Hey here is an idea.

Why not make your drivers license number a defacto "identity number" like the proposed "Australia Card"?

You need you DL to vote so vote early, vote often becomes moot.
If you lose your license you can't vote unless you get it back.
If you forget to vote you lose points
And if you don't want to vote then don't drive......

And the extra advantage is that the inner city uber nutters and hippies et al. will no longer have any input as to how the country is run.

Of course those who have held a license but have had to hand it in due to age or infirmity would still retain the right to vote.

I wonder if there would be any backlash as I am fairly sure some elected representitives in inner Sydney & Melbourne as well as NT, NWA & FNQ would probably not like this cunning plan

[DJL351]

Okay - I'll bite.....

1) Give the courst some Balls.
There are people out there that have been banned from driving for whatever reason, yet they still drive. And even after being caught again, they are released.
Lets face it, these people are spitting on the courts (symbolically). Try it in for real and see what happens.

Lets make people think about it a little more. - My solution; if you get caught again while on bail/suspension (whatever) you loose your dominant hand.
(yes, thats right, chop it off at the wrist)

Harsh? Maybe, but they are less likely to do it again.
(this - as far as I am concerned should also cover Break and Enters, vehicle stealing and robbery)

2) Better education
Lets start teaching kids from 10 not 15/16. (I'm talking at home - not school)
My misses has 3 nephews aged between 17 and 16 - all three are of the console (game) era. All three think they can drive (they win races on the computer!) The oldest of the three managed to spin their mothers AU wagon on his first 'lesson'. All three have no concept of speed or the effects of momentum or spacial awareness.

Whenever I'm driving with them, we talk about vehicle postioning, braking distances, cause and effect, identifying traffic, judging other driver behaviour etc.
Now, the youngest of the three, who I've been able to give the most time to, has driven with an instructor and has been told that his road awareness and 'habits' are very good.
(he also claims that his times in GT5 have improved )

3) Give them somewhere to be stupid
Rule number one - tell someone they can't do something, they'll want to do it more.
Local gov (in WA anyway) have spent loads of money on build skate parks, in an attempt to stop the kids from doing it in places they don't want them to. And (for the most part - in my area anyway) it has worked well.

So, lets open up an area, with a few bits of road (track) and a skid pan and leave them to it.
Oh no! They could get hurt! Well yes, as they could doing out the front of a house, at least this way they can only hurt themselves.
And I can hear the chours of people saying what about those that are watching etc. Well, if they are out there, they are aware of the risks - end of story!

I know myself, that after spending the day at Barbs, my driving calms on the roads.

4) Vehicle standards
Lets see the introduction of vehicle checks.
In WA, once the car has it's plates, it is never required to be checked by DPI again - unless it is given a 'Yellow' or becomes unlicenced.

Lets make all vehicles, over X years of age require a full insepction every 18 months until it reaches Y years of age at which point, they become 9/12 month checks.

Having seen some of the broken down buckets on the road - I feel this is a massive requirement to not only improve safety, but traffic congestion too.
It would also (could) have an impact of the stupid and unsafe modifcations being done on some cars.


I have more; but most are realated to the reduction of the crime rate and only really expand on point 1.

[castellan]

Why do people think being real harsh is the way i don't think it works we have to many strict laws for small stuff and we are to weak on the real bad stuff.

But for no hoper thieves drugos & repeated high level **** pots ect.
Boot camp would be an option for some.
But i would like to have some kicked out of the state for a period if they were unrepentant creations and some if they still don't cease and desist could be banished to the middle east eventually to make a new start.
Maybe that may give the morons a wake up call. like they have made their own bed now they will have to sleep in it.

I came across two clowns striping a car as i was riding through the bush i stopped and said hey i bags the turbo on that bro and they objected and retaliated like vultures, that peak on the helmet and my boots came in handy. i believe a hiding is the only real way to sort some out.

[castellan]

Why do people think being real harsh is the way i don't think it works we have to many strict laws for small stuff and we are to weak on the real bad stuff.

But for no hoper thieves drugos & repeated high level ****s pots ect.
Boot camp would be an option for some.
But i would like to have some kicked out of the state for a period if they were unrepentant creations and some if they still don't cease and desist could be banished to the middle east eventually to make a new start.
Maybe that may give the morons a wake up call. like they have made their own bed now they will have to sleep in it.

I came across two clowns striping a car as i was riding through the bush i stopped and said hey i bags the turbo on that bro and they objected and retaliated like vultures, that peak on the helmet and my boots came in handy. i believe a hiding is the only real way to sort some out.

[BENT_8]

@ DJL351

1, I like your thinking, but its never gonna happen

2, Now where talking, this is exactly how i educate my youngens, its often too late to save some poor twisted soul wrapped round a tree, but never too late to make an example of it to those who'll listen.

3, Jury's out on this for me, i remember plenty of accidents and carry on after drags when AIR was open here.

4, No evidence to support vehicle standards cause accidents, however i do agree with some points.

[opto]

Raise the driving and drinking age minimum to 21.
Seems as though the lack of Parental Discipline has led to a lack of Self Discipline for todays youth.
Kids these days seem to be able to get anything, and they abuse it too.
Only way is wait for them to grow the ***** up !

[Coyote mk3]

Originally Posted by opto

Raise the driving and drinking age minimum to 21.
Seems as though the lack of Parental Discipline has led to a lack of Self Discipline for todays youth.
Kids these days seem to be able to get anything, and they abuse it too.
Only way is wait for them to grow the ***** up !

That just is not practical, in many situations. (driving not drinking)

Just one particular example.
Apprentices - would be unable to drive to jobs, pick up stuff for the boss, drive to work (public transport really isn't practical for many people) etc.

[Mark351]

Roll cages, 5 point harnesses, helmets and hans devices?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDeqDxBzpM4

Seriously tho, annual RWC's and make driver education part of school with decent assessment prior to handing out L plates. I'm sure they can weave things into existing subjects such as physics as well. More police on the roads tackling other dangerous habits such as tailgating, not keeping left, etc instead of the focus on speed through inanimate cameras. I'd support a 0.02 alcohol limit too.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by opto

Raise the driving and drinking age minimum to 21.
Seems as though the lack of Parental Discipline has led to a lack of Self Discipline for todays youth.
Kids these days seem to be able to get anything, and they abuse it too.
Only way is wait for them to grow the ***** up !

Yeah 21, makes so much sense!!! I'm still under 21, but I have been working fulltime for 2 years. How would I of got to work at 3am on a sunday morning? I am sure there is heaps of buses to an industrial area at 3am on a Sunday morning.
get a taxi??? Wait an hour for a taxi that is covered in vomit that charges me 30-40 bucks each way? 80 bucks a day for taxi?? Might as well stay home on the dole, I will get more money for myself!

Or should I ride a pushbike at 2am in the middle of winter in the rain?
Then do a 9-12 hour shift then ride the bike home again?
1 hour bike ride, work 12 hours, 1 hour bike ride home. 14 hour day!!!!

Then what am I supposed to do at work, since I supposed to drive cars for work? Let the other older guy do all the work and do all the driving as well?

Why because some young idiots can't drive? Why the hell would you punish me. I never got pulled over or got a fine on my P's. Why should I get punished?

[Coyote mk3]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Yeah 21, makes so much sense!!! I'm still under 21, but I have been working fulltime for 2 years. How would I of got to work at 3am on a sunday morning? I am sure there is heaps of buses to an industrial area at 3am on a Sunday morning.
get a taxi??? Wait an hour for a taxi that is covered in vomit that charges me 30-40 bucks each way? 80 bucks a day for taxi?? Might as well stay home on the dole, I will get more money for myself!

Or should I ride a pushbike at 2am in the middle of winter in the rain?
Then do a 9-12 hour shift then ride the bike home again?
1 hour bike ride, work 12 hours, 1 hour bike ride home. 14 hour day!!!!

Then what am I supposed to do at work, since I supposed to drive cars for work? Let the other older guy do all the work and do all the driving as well?

Why because some young idiots can't drive? Why the hell would you punish me. I never got pulled over or got a fine on my P's. Why should I get punished?

Well said mate,
I am in a similar position. Have been doing a fair few 10-12 hour days starting at 4:30, and there is no way I am riding my pushie there and back.

[Cooper69S]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Yeah 21, makes so much sense!!! I'm still under 21, but I have been working fulltime for 2 years. How would I of got to work at 3am on a sunday morning? I am sure there is heaps of buses to an industrial area at 3am on a Sunday morning.

Yeah the "raise the minimum age" argument isn't practical. People are expected to support themselves after leaving school. Living costs money, even if you're at uni. Making money requires a job which in many cases requires a drivers licence. Sure there are practical ways that the road toll could be reduced, this isn't one of them.

[JC]

Raise the speed limit to 120 on undivided highways and 130 on dual carriageways for cars, and 110/120 for trucks. That should fix the highway/fatigue issue.

In urban areas - enhance red lights with tyre spikes that come up from the road. Replace roundabouts with flyovers.
Book anyone (6 points, but only a small fine) not doing within 10km/h where they have at least 4 cars stuck behind them and a distance of say 100m to the car in front.

Oh, and get more police on the roads. And "deputise" experienced drivers to act as police for driving infringements; supply them with in car video, and have someone back at the station do the booking based on video evidence. Sort of like mobile camera cops.

Or, leave the road toll as it is, and compare to other countries to show where Australia lies in terms of death per 100,000 people - that way, we can se whether the road toll is getting worse in real terms, or better. My instinct says it is getting better anyway, and it has nothing to do with speed cameras (more to do with safer cars than anything).

[BENT_8]

Ok, heres one from left field.
I've often wondered why we are required to insure a particular vehicle and then be limited to who can be covered for it.
Wouldnt it make sense to insure yourself so as to be covered for use of any vehicle within your licence class and terms.
This way if you have a poor driving history, dui, speed etc. you will pay a higher premium than someone who has behaved.

Now, if a new driver gets his licence and automatically has to start paying a premium from day 1, which comes with the threat of increasing should he muck up, he will come to realise keeping a clean record is beneficial to his hip pocket.
Make this insurance compulsory and deductable before wages etc. are paid same as child support etc. and valid for life.
That way if you start off bad you will carry that burden for life, no if's, no but's.
Drill it into the kids from 10-12 yrs as part of a 1hr a week road education unit and a cumpulsory part of the national curriculum, let em know if they stuff up it WILL haunt and follow them for LIFE...

This will only hit the guilty hard, more people will be insured and the innocent can go about life as normal.

Any thoughts, and go easy as proberbly needs fine tuning.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by opto

Raise the driving and drinking age minimum to 21.
Seems as though the lack of Parental Discipline has led to a lack of Self Discipline for todays youth.
Kids these days seem to be able to get anything, and they abuse it too.
Only way is wait for them to grow the ***** up !

There is a lot of good kids who have every right to drive at 17 we all have to learn some where. if i was to teach an apprentice it does not matter what age they are some will pick it up faster than others and there are fools at all ages.
There is incompetence, so how do you deal with that?
There are fools, so how best do we deal with that problem.
There are dopey ignoramuses how do you best deal with that lot.
Come to think of it why do i think our government is run by incompetent foolish dopey ignoramuses.

[platinumXR]

As I have indicated in other threads / posts; Annual or even biennial competency testing (in whatever form to be determined – annual theory then biennial practical or something) should be mandatory to retain your license. Simply buying it at the RTA should not allow you carte blanche in respect to mutual recognition of competency considering the potential danger and ramifications of ineptitude and apathy. The mere fact that there are serious/ fatal/ alcohol or fatigue related crash statistics and such animated and fervent debate on the issue should be an indicator that there is a need for reform.

Our society as a matter of evolution has become dependant on motor vehicles for day-to-day existence and as a consequence treat their (cars/trucks) movements or operation as a trivial concern as in many respects - it is very easy to manipulate controls to move it from A to B...but there is very, VERY little focus on technique and populated interaction. Same as a CAMS license – you need to earn it.

Additionally; Learner / Provisional’s often do forget they are learning and on probation and therefore authorities / other road users pay more attention to the Red/Green/Amber ‘target’ on the front and back. This should not tar all L&P with the same brush...but it does, accept it. It was the same when I went through my L&P time, and unboubtedly it will be the same when YOUR children go through theirs.

Over policing and the excessive / negligible use of 'Speed/Safety' camera's is a band-aid solution not to mention a convenient cash-cow response to a broader, more difficult and more socially orientated issue than would first be thought. Attitudes, then behaviour need changing or guiding...THEN...maybe there would be less crashes, less insurance and rego costs...

JMHO.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

As I have indicated in other threads / posts; Annual or even biennial competency testing (in whatever form to be determined – annual theory then biennial practical or something) should be mandatory to retain your license. Simply buying it at the RTA should not allow you carte blanche in respect to mutual recognition of competency considering the potential danger and ramifications of ineptitude and apathy. The mere fact that there are serious/ fatal/ alcohol or fatigue related crash statistics and such animated and fervent debate on the issue should be an indicator that there is a need for reform.

Our society as a matter of evolution has become dependant on motor vehicles for day-to-day existence and as a consequence treat their (cars/trucks) movements or operation as a trivial concern as in many respects - it is very easy to manipulate controls to move it from A to B...but there is very, VERY little focus on technique and populated interaction. Same as a CAMS license – you need to earn it.

Additionally; Learner / Provisional’s often do forget they are learning and on probation and therefore authorities / other road users pay more attention to the Red/Green/Amber ‘target’ on the front and back. This should not tar all L&P with the same brush...but it does, accept it. It was the same when I went through my L&P time, and unboubtedly it will be the same when YOUR children go through theirs.

Over policing and the excessive / negligible use of 'Speed/Safety' camera's is a band-aid solution not to mention a convenient cash-cow response to a broader, more difficult and more socially orientated issue than would first be thought. Attitudes, then behaviour need changing or guiding...THEN...maybe there would be less crashes, less insurance and rego costs...

JMHO.

+10000

Rep points to you..

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by flappist

Absolutely true.

It is a shame that all drivers are not re-tested at every license renewal, particularly in the theory component.

I am quite sure more than half of the drivers on the road have no idea how to negotiate a roundabout or multi-lane carriageway.

..+1

You are right, and it's a damn good start and should be part & parcel of competency based retention.

What the solution is, as posed by the OP; I am not too sure about but I do know that if there were more focus on teaching people HOW to drive CORRECTLY or COMPETENTLY from the onset - then there would be far less need to over regulate or scrutinize.

Driving at speed is not a dangerous thing when done so competently and to conditions (whether they be weather conditions or in heavy traffic) - the speeding mum 'just wanting to het her kids to school on time' in the Captiva is just as dangerous as the recalcitrant drunk barreling through the school zone either oblivious or just arrogantly thinking he/she is impervious.

Everyone (me included) has been running late and stepped up the pace a bit...but more often than not driving smarter can be more productive than just driving faster (read: Red Mist) and putting other road users at risk because YOU are in a hurry.

...whew...I need a Bex and a lie down...

[trippytaka]

Simple. Take half of the cars off the road and build effective public transport.

If you don't pass a high level skills (combination of defensive driving etc) you can't drive on the road and you are relegated to public transport.