Great Wall Motors. Any good?

[Mitcon]

Wow, ok lol

Yes there are lots of VW's sold in China, heck theres so many people there lots of most brands we know sold. See the thing is alot of you folks are talking about brands over there or cars in general. I was only talking about Utes and SUV/CUV's if you limit your choices to these the largest selling independant is GWM with it's Utes and the Hover (X240 to us here).

Also to those saying about saftey ratings as being poor and equal to that of 5-10 year old car and then in the same line then further equating that to being equal with a 15-20 year old vehicle. Really I'm not sure if your for or against the GWM vehicles but I think you need to re-do your research.

Remeber, again we are not compairing passanger vehicles here. You folks are using current ratings for passanger vehicles against a commercial vehicle. Do your home work and 85% of current 4x4 commerical pick-ups or vans are 3 star rated by ANCAP and most only just make it into that 3 star group. Some like the Ford Couriers right up till the last model only got 2 stars.

Then the Ranger/BT50 just squeezed in a 3 star rating and look at things like Mitsubishi and Nissan's commerical Vans...1 star.

If you compare the V240 Ute with vehicles of the same nature, like the Courier, RA Rodeo, Isuzu D-Max, Nissan Navara etc etc they are all only just a 3 star rating. And I think you will find that if ANCAP did a retesting of a current Australian stock V240 it too would be a 3 star (they have been retested to this standard, just not by ANCAP and they were approached I'm told to re-test but declined).

This is why I say people are putting them down without fair reason and it's fear mongering. People aren't comparing apples with apples, they are using ratings etc to their advantage to make these vehicles look worse than they are. Sure 2 or 3 star ratings aren't very good but they are what 95% of current commerical vehicles rate at and if you take into the fact that a great deal of commerical vehicles on the road today are older and wouldn;t even get a rating they would come up so bad.

The other factor people use is just by saying "it's made in China" so it's crap, where do immature people get this stigma from? China produces some of the highest quality items of avail in the world, yes they can and do produce rubbish too but thats only because some tight wad greedy Aussie importer has asked them to provide them with the cheapest thing they can.

China will cater to any market, pure and simple. And just because something is Aussie made doesn't mean it's quality, what a joke. This may have been the case many, many years ago when we took pride in things but that was the same all over the world. In this day and age it's the time of consumerisim and mass marketing, higher wages and bottom dollars.

There is man, many examples of shonky aussie made junk you can find anywhere. In-fact with alot of todays trends, mindsets and attitudes I often feel embarressed to say I'm a Aussie. While alot of us think we live in a top country with top quality engenering, design and manufacturing processes the world at large does not see us that way.

Don't get me wrong as I love being a Aussie and I support Aussie buiness and design where I can afford to and where it deserves it with even more preference to supporting small local business. But today we live in a global market, if you want to survive in it you need to get with the times and we all need to change our mindsets and attitudes.

And again, I bet you wont find a Aussie designed and built car that isn't full of a great deal of Chinese made components. Or for that matter any quality brand product made up of many moving and electronic components. Even high end companies like merc, BMW, Audi and some fo the more expensive European cars are made in China.

Really guys, you don;t have to buy them if you don;t like them. Thats easy and we're all different with different needs but if your going to bash a product do it for valid reasons based on facts and on a equal playing field. Compare them to most vehicles that are of the same kind from the last 5 years right upto current offerings, they don;t come up that bad.

If you want to take and sad facts from that the reality is that almost all commerical vehicles are of a poor safety rating and even a great deal of the passenger list isn;t as good as it should be. All of the companies pumping out automotives these days should be stepping up their game.

[Mitcon]

End of the day I still say it's a simple fact that we can ALL only blame ourselves by not supporting Australia and being greedy and it's already too late to go back. This even includes myself, we all ask for more and want to pay less and we want it faster.. Heck no we don't even want it faster these days, we just can't wait...

WE WANT IT NOW!

The rare time I see Aussie quality these days sadly is in the very small privately owned and operated one local man businesses and even then it's getting more and more rare.

[Quicksand]

Holy crap batman

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Mitcon

Are we allowed to share pics in this thread/forum ?

If so here's some of my Chinese takeaway lol

Hey Mitcon,

Like your work, think I saw it on the 4WD forum?

Removing the factory rear bumper also removed your rear fog lamps, and left you with a fully functioning rear fog switch & wiring.

You could add LE Perei's 'RF178' rear fog lamp (used on Landrover), and mount it right_of_the_vehicles_centerline on your new rear bar somewhere, then connecting it to the factory rear fog wiring now currently sitting unused. You'd only need the one lamp!

Lamp costs about $19 and you'd also order the bracket $4.
http://www.perei.com.au/products/RF178.htm

Alternative suppliers:-
Three lamps on page, UK mob - they post stuff in you ring, accept Visa/MC:-
http://www.ncs-systems.com/res/423

Hella Australia;
Part No. 2302. $120 or so. Must be made of gold.
http://db.hella.com.au/cgi-bin/catal...w&flmaint=2278
(Used on some NSWFB tenders as a rear fog).

All examples are ADR 52/NVS compliant.

Kinda looks naked without it....

NOTE: Removing the factory rear fogs also removed the two rear red reflex reflectors, these are legally required under ADR/NVS, they are built into the rear fog lights on that model. So, you'd need to fit two red reflectors, symmetrically mounted at the rear end too, potential defect otherwise.

[Mitcon]

Thanks for the info Keepleft and reminding me. I did and still do plan on putting fogs back in, I actually bought a led set-up I was thinking of using but had changed my mind.

And yep you saw mine before and commented on it on a 4WD forum, thats me

When I had the custom bar made I had asked them to re-use the original rear fogs but I'm not sure why the outcome worked out how it did. Thats why I had planned on doing something myself anyways.

Did not know about the reflectors being a issue though and I will certainly see to correcting that.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Mitcon

Thanks for the info Keepleft and reminding me. I did and still do plan on putting fogs back in, I actually bought a led set-up I was thinking of using but had changed my mind.

I've received today in fact a PIAA "DENO-3 LED rear fog lamp" destined for installation to a ladies new Nissan Micra. Dimensions are perfect for a tight fit situation (under bar mount), and it does glow well - mildly brighter than a brake-light. But at USD$105 is kinda expensive.
http://www.piaa.com/Powersports/lamps.html

Do take into account the Perei RF and Hella RF suggestions to see if their dimensions are suited to your bar, -IF the GW lamp units are indeed unsuited.

Hella items chrome body is steel, but if water gets in - its reflector is pretty much cactus if not dried quickly, two wires feed centrally through its mounting bolt, so ensure its watertight.

Perei lamp feeds two wires, protected by a plastic flexible sleeve from its black nylon body, for the price its not a bad quality lamp. Ring em and they'll usually post one to your door, again - note those dimensions!

Did not know about the reflectors being a issue though and I will certainly see to correcting that.

Happens, aftermarket rear bar install folk need to keep on top of this stuff.

Anyhow, been good reading watching your project develop. (PS - Hope you never have to use GW's standard supply EU spec warning triangle at someone else's crash:-) Look forward to any update pics. Regards.

[Mitcon]

The original lamps can't be refitted really, seeing as it's a 4WD and bar level lights will see water I'll have a better look at the Perei you suggested and if not will fabricate my own LED set-up of some kind.

I hope I don't have a need to use the triangle for myself or anyone else but it does look like a fairly ok made unit. Pitty all cars don't come with them as standard.

Again thanks for the help, info and input. These kind of things are very good to know and it seems alot of folks either don't know or don't care.

[SB076]

Why compare 4 x 4 pickups with vans? Hilux, Triton are both 4 star, Colardo and Navara are both 3 star. The Ford Courier that you mentioned above is a 1999 model.

I made mention of the Hover in my previous post.

As stated previously I haven't driven one so I cant really comment (apart from the facts as I see them) GWM themselves stated that they were dissappointed with the crash test result, so no news there.

As you stated the vehicle will fit the needs of some and others it wont. I can understand some being skeptical about the quality of the car (think 1990 Hyundai)

[LUXO_8]

fact of the matter is the seatbelt retractor failing in the test is why the v240 scored 2 star....this is now rectified so they should get a 3 star rating now......only ANCAP wont redo the test now the car is rectified..

i dont mind them at all, and if they had a TD engine id buy one

[Mitcon]

Yes, the Triton and Hilux are both better rating on the ANCAP testing and 4 stars isn't bad at all though it would be nice to see commercials getting upto 5 stars one day.

The Ford Courier was sold upto untill 2006 I thought as I'm sure I knew someone who bought one new around then? Haven't checked up on that but it doesn't really matter, as there was no updates to the vehicle far as I know that would have improved it's ratings and hence wasn't tested by ANCAP.

Why mention Vans etc? simple as they are commercial vehicles just like 4x4 and 2x4 pick ups.

Yep, GWM were not happy with the ANCAP results as stated but that was because the vehicle (V240 only here I'm talking about) had already been tested to ANCAP standards reaching a strong 3 stars.

Also as already said GWM offered freely another vehicle as the one tested proved to be faulty but was declined I'm told. Again ANCAP tests are performed once and not repeated so they don't allow for acceptable failure rates and as such should only be used as a rating or guide and not as rock solid.

They are very important and I whole heartly agree that even if the V240 did get a 3 star rating IMHO thats still not anything to rave about as in this day and age we should all be striving for 5star vehicles and not just passanger vehicles.

Heck if anything commericals should be made better and get better ratings as they normally spend more time on our roads and therefor are at a increased risk of accidents etc. What about the poor delivery drivers that spend all day on our roads driving a Hiace, they have families that need them to stay alive.

Really end of the day all I'm saying is alot of the naysaying and negative folks aren't basing info directly or well is all. The better these vehicles do hopefully the more they will improve them and in the end all of us consumers should end up better off as with some luck it will wake up the likes of Toyota and Nissan to improve their own stanards.

Also maybe help things get back into check and become more competitive again also, see I remember when Toyota first came to Australia and they were they cheap rice burning imports that everyone trashed. 48 years later and they and now one of the more fav'd vehicles by average folks and they are also some of the most expensive.

If we were talking about loss of industry etc it'd be a different discussion though it's a bit late for that as the bull has already run the gate. But I just wonder what happened to the Aussie spirit of giving the little guy a fair go. If sales go up, theres more spending in our economy...more dealers more jobs..maybe lower prices on other new/used vehicles and like others have said for someone who has been stuck with a older used vehicle these cars offer a huge step up in safety.

Way I see it, it's a win win situation for most everyone unless we keep stigmas alive and bag them till folks are just too scared to try them. Then if things are bad enough and sales go low enough I'm sure they'll close their doors here, leaving people who did buy them in a bad situation.

The people selling and repairing them without a job and back out hunting again, less money changing hands affects lots of things and we will continue to keep paying too much for our other current commerical vehicles.

I still like Holden and Ford for one basic reason as they haven't changed as much as the original jap cars, they stayed middle of the road and fair. jap cars came in cheap and now dominate the market and for the most part have got as expensive as or more so than the rival Ford or Holden.

[Mitcon]

Originally Posted by LUXO_8

fact of the matter is the seatbelt retractor failing in the test is why the v240 scored 2 star....this is now rectified so they should get a 3 star rating now......only ANCAP wont redo the test now the car is rectified..

i dont mind them at all, and if they had a TD engine id buy one

Alot of people are wanting them with the deisel, I reckon it wont bill till late this year or early next from what I heard. I know alot of sales people are saying anyday but I doubt it, none even know for certain what motor it will be.

I'm pretty sure it'll be the new little 2L powerhouse that looks the same as the Audi one to me, can;t believe how small that thing is. I think they may even be offering the option of auto on the X240 by then too maybe. Either way wont be far off now, seems older I get the faster time gets away.

GWM were so upset with the seatbelt issue they didn't just ask the supplier to make good and fix the issue and replace them. They dumped contract with that supplier and looks for the best they could that would correct and supply them fastest so they could solve the issue quickly as possible.

How many companies chase things that quickly these days for us end users? GWM seem to me to be very savy folks and are looking to do very well with hopefully quality products that will only improve around the world.

They have been investing in many other countries opening new state of the art factories upto same standards as Toyota etc and who know they may even do so here one day.

I shouldn't say this as it's hearsay and I've no idea it to be fact but I think they even made some small changes to other parts of the vehicle to improve it's saftey though I think this was at production line level so not something you will get changed in recalls but rather only see in new or current sales.

How many makers of cars invest in making their own crash test stations and set-up equal of eurocap/ancap standards? GWM did this and thiers is actually longer.

Anyways, here's a youtube link to a vid on the company GWM for those that are interested to have a look. Runs for 10mins and has alot of fluff IMO but theres some good info too.

Great Wall Motors

lol, geeze I feel like I'm selling these damn things hahaha. I'm happy with mine, they certainly aren't for everyone. No-one make or model of car is.

[snowcone]

Why should we support a local car industry that produces average products. If it wasn't for the influx of the Japanese cars back in the late 60's and early 70's, we probably wouldn't have half the items in our cars now. It was cheaper competition that forced the Aussie builders to improve their product. The Holdens and Fords back in those days didn't come standard with heaters even. Some had a radio, but not push button. Standard fittings in a base Corolla or Datsun had all the accessories they could pack into them. The Chinese are now producing a pretty good product for a lot less money than their competitors and scaring the daylights out of them. It won't just stop with commercial vehicles either. Our Australian cars are overpriced.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by snowcone.

Our Australian cars are overpriced.

Yeah thats what I though when I picked up a G6ET in what way is that car overpriced again and comparing with what??

There was also a popular pun might not be politically correct during the 1960's and 70s that described the quality of Japanese cars. Japan used to make cheap and nasty goods, they have transformed and now make high qualtiy parts but they are also considered an expensive place to manufacture.

[JimNiki]

Originally Posted by snowcone

Why should we support a local car industry that produces average products. If it wasn't for the influx of the Japanese cars back in the late 60's and early 70's, we probably wouldn't have half the items in our cars now. It was cheaper competition that forced the Aussie builders to improve their product. The Holdens and Fords back in those days didn't come standard with heaters even. Some had a radio, but not push button. Standard fittings in a base Corolla or Datsun had all the accessories they could pack into them. The Chinese are now producing a pretty good product for a lot less money than their competitors and scaring the daylights out of them. It won't just stop with commercial vehicles either. Our Australian cars are overpriced.

give us one example of a similar large luxury vehicle like the G6ET which costs less and we'll give you 10 examples of similar imported vehicles costing more!

Ford aren't as bad as you make them out to be...same for (cough) Holden.

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by snowcone

Why should we support a local car industry that produces average products. If it wasn't for the influx of the Japanese cars back in the late 60's and early 70's, we probably wouldn't have half the items in our cars now. It was cheaper competition that forced the Aussie builders to improve their product. The Holdens and Fords back in those days didn't come standard with heaters even. Some had a radio, but not push button. Standard fittings in a base Corolla or Datsun had all the accessories they could pack into them. The Chinese are now producing a pretty good product for a lot less money than their competitors and scaring the daylights out of them. It won't just stop with commercial vehicles either. Our Australian cars are overpriced.

Australian cars without heaters? What era are you going back to?

As for Australian cars being too expensive. That is our own dam fault. We all want more pay at the end of each week. We will all go strike for it. But when it comes to spending that little extra we get on Australian product, well, then, thats too dear so we will buy the Chinese crap. Aside from our own greed and cheapness, we can also blame the Government for dipping its hand into every aspect it can. How much Tax comes out of a new car made in Australia.

As for the original topic. The Japanese manufacturers realised some time ago how in effecient a 4 cylinder was at not only moving a 4WD 4 door ute, but that it was even more useless at pulling a fully loaded4WD ute.

I personally will continue to buy locally made cars. Not all cars made here will suit everyone, but they suit me. so I will continue to them and buy them new, whenever I can.

I cringe at the thought that one day, everything that we buy will be made in China. I have seen first hand in my profession, just how bad chinese manufacturing can be.

[Quicksand]

I had a friend over from America recently. He loves his Fords and was interested when i took him for a drive in the BF2 XR6T. He asked how much it cost, and he was shocked by saying "wow, you dont get a lot of car for that amount of money!".

And he was right. In America, he could get cars far better than my little OZ Ford for the amount of $$ that i forked over.

Herein i think lies the issue; the amazing markup on cars imported into Australia compared to how much they cost around the rest of the world. How much does it cost to buy a BMW in America or Europe for example? How much for an American Mustang?

[ck11]

The point that people are missing is that large australian cars might be offer a lot of performance and space. But our lifestyle and circumstances dont require it. We live 15kms from the sydney cbd and there is no way you can enjoy the performance or expoilt even 50% of a large car's potential due to traffic. Unless you are driving interstate a lot or live in regional areas, the demand simply isnt there. There are speed cameras every few kms, redlight cameras, lots of traffic on weekends etc etc which all conspire to made a large car redundant.

How many people on this forum really exploit the performance potential of there cars without exceeding the speed limit and live in the cities. With our draconian speed limits and laws, it is not pragmatic.

Petrol costs, traffic and ridiculous speed limits will kill of the australia car industry unless they can compete in the medium and small car market.

[Mitcon]

JimNiki,
your avatar looks bloody panful mate lol. I hope that isn't actually you...ouch.

It is sad we have lost so much local production but it's the way of the world and has happened everywhere. It's also like the small business too being killed off more and more by the chains and giants. But it's still ourselves to blame for it really.

But hey, imports have also helped make change here and did bring improvements etc and in general we all live a more material life now with many much nicer things than were even of avail in the old days.

I remember not having a heater and having to wipe my windscreen whenever it fogged up and man I was so excited when I had a new XB wagon with aircon and those big comfy seats. Least it seemed leading edge and special to me back then.

I think in general all cars have improved in many ways, not just with gadgets but reliability in general. But I must admit I think new cars are crap to work on and in 4WD's I'm still not so keen on having so many bloody electrics to mess up. But I guess that doesn't happen very often.

Most places in the world get cars much cheaper than us, heck look at what you pay for a Toyota in China as to the price we pay here and they get taxed heavy on those there. Or look what we sell Magnas to the US for etc. The prices we pay (or anyone else pays for that matter) don't have a great deal to do with the actual costs.

It's more about what the market will support, we take up new things very easily and quickly here. We complain about it in forums and to Mates etc but we don't really do much about it. But it all also comes back to inflation and us, ourselves being greedy.

Growth causes growth and the only constant is change my friends.

As to cars power and driving and all that, well I don't really care about going fast anymore. I prefer to slow down now and take more in, be more aware of my surroundings etc etc. Besides why try t go fast, petrol costs a fortune...theres nothing but speeding fines waiting everywhere. I knew someone with a lamborghini once and where was there good to drive it?

They did damge driving it in a shopping centre carpark on a speed hump if memory serves me corectly lol.

It makes everything that may happen more dangerous and a greater chance of taking a life if the worset does happen. The roads are crap here and the list can go on and on, at the end of it all. A smaller less poluting engine is fine for me. I lvoe the environment and wildlife and everything else beautiful and awesome about this country we live in.

Life is still too fast paced anyway and is far too short, every day goes by faster and faster. If it takes me a extra two mins to drive 20k's how is my life any worse or affected. And now when I get on the open road (which most the time are still shocking quality) I slow down even more. I've done my rushing, I'm sick of it. I want life to slow down and enjoy whats left.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Mitcon

End of the day I still say it's a simple fact that we can ALL only blame ourselves by not supporting Australia and being greedy and it's already too late to go back. This even includes myself, we all ask for more and want to pay less and we want it faster.. Heck no we don't even want it faster these days, we just can't wait...

WE WANT IT NOW!

The rare time I see Aussie quality these days sadly is in the very small privately owned and operated one local man businesses and even then it's getting more and more rare.

No, you can apportion most of the blame to yourself.
My garage has 4 Aussies and one fat german in it, and all of them were expensive. You bought on price alone and that is what has eroded this countries manufacturing base for years - people like you. I think you'll find that most of the members here at fordforums.com.au have australian made fords of some description and like myself buy Australian made where possible, so laying blame on all and sundry to assuage your own guilt in the decimation of local industry is disingenous at best.

You have come on a car forum devoted to one particular brand and besides talking up a chinese car, you have also directly been putting ford down as well. Dont they have a great wall forums?

I'm not to blame for what's happening to our businesses, people like you are.
You think great wall cars are great; good for you. I don't particularly care whether they are or not; what it's going to do is be a catalyst for other cheap brands to come here and undermine our local industry. Don't presume to lecture me about my fault in this, I didn't buy one of these cars, you did.
Oh, and BTW, before asking where my television etc came from I had no choice; we haven't built them here for over 20 years (although it is an old rear projection built in Japan).

[Mitcon]

Originally Posted by ltd

No, you can apportion most of the blame to yourself.
My garage has 4 Aussies and one fat german in it, and all of them were expensive. You bought on price alone and that is what has eroded this countries manufacturing base for years - people like you. I think you'll find that most of the members here at fordforums.com.au have australian made fords of some description and like myself buy Australian made where possible, so laying blame on all and sundry to assuage your own guilt in the decimation of local industry is disingenous at best.

You have come on a car forum devoted to one particular brand and besides talking up a chinese car, you have also directly been putting ford down as well. Dont they have a great wall forums?

I'm not to blame for what's happening to our businesses, people like you are.
You think great wall cars are great; good for you. I don't particularly care whether they are or not; what it's going to do is be a catalyst for other cheap brands to come here and undermine our local industry. Don't presume to lecture me about my fault in this, I didn't buy one of these cars, you did.
Oh, and BTW, before asking where my television etc came from I had no choice; we haven't built them here for over 20 years (although it is an old rear projection built in Japan).

Hmmm, claws are starting to show j/k. I myself admitted in my posts I too am at fault for these exact reasons, no need to reiterate. But I was talking in general and not pointing fingers at anyone person.

But there is far more to it that just because you were loyal to your Aussie made (or should that really be assemabled) cars, though you also admit to owning a German in there as well. I too have bought my share of Aussie designed or made cars over the years as have many others.

And no fear even if your TV wasn't made in China, I'm sure you have at least hundreds of Chinese made items that you own. Clothes electronics, cookware, plastics, foods, electrics and a list that goes on forever.

And thats nothing do with with our high wages and we all enjoy them and think they aren't high enough. Aussie have been doing themselves in for many decades, and yes I'm too blame as well but I'm hardly take credit for most of the blame myself as you suggest. I'm first to admit it but I think there would be very few Aussies who could deny this themselves completly.

I support small local business as much as I can and where ever I can, and because we are part of a global industry even if we do buy imported goods and the dollar doesn't stop here. We are still helping local employment and our own economy.

The other factor is we are part of a bigger industry and place these days, it's global and not just us anymore. Oh and what is a Aussie or us as we are surely a nation built up of many creeds. So sure point the finger at me, but folks who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Oh and I didn't buy on price alone, my reasons for my choice were based on many factors. Price was only one. I like how you say most of the people here buy Aussie made like yourself and then add where possible. I could say the same thing, man it's easy to pass the buck and point fingers.

Why do some people have to make things personal, if I have offended anyone this was not my intent. But I don't think any Aussie is without blame, that is if you see our current markets and economies as a problem.

EDIT: as a side note all the money I saved on buying a more expensive car I used to employ small local business do to mods and other work on my vehicle. About $20k worth which I'm sure helped those small Aussies.

[Mitcon]

It's all getting way off topic though, the thread was asking about Great Wall Motors.

I just wanted to give some imput on them as a owner of one for 8 months now that had done some touring with them. Some people may have found the information of some use or just interesting. And to help keep the discussion balanced and to clear some of the missplaced or fear based truths.

Oh and somewhere back folks were talking about the front end and headlights etc. Mine do say VW/Audi Germany on them.

[landau460]

A big reason they will take over the market as is the other importers is the fact we let them. If you are in china and decide to import there you will be hammered by a tax so large letting you know that you are not wanted there. Why could we not do that over here. For such a little country we are the leaders inso many things. So oftern we here of what we have made as a world first. We arewell off in the mining side (china will use that) and yet we kill for our selves.
Iguess we should now to compete i guess we will have to lower our pays to compete start living twenty to a house to cut costs car pool or train and or cycle. What the hay let become a communist country!

What the bloody hell happened to this country?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by ltd

No, you can apportion most of the blame to yourself.
My garage has 4 Aussies and one fat german in it, and all of them were expensive. You bought on price alone and that is what has eroded this countries manufacturing base for years - people like you. I think you'll find that most of the members here at fordforums.com.au have australian made fords of some description and like myself buy Australian made where possible, so laying blame on all and sundry to assuage your own guilt in the decimation of local industry is disingenous at best.

You have come on a car forum devoted to one particular brand and besides talking up a chinese car, you have also directly been putting ford down as well. Dont they have a great wall forums?

I'm not to blame for what's happening to our businesses, people like you are.
You think great wall cars are great; good for you. I don't particularly care whether they are or not; what it's going to do is be a catalyst for other cheap brands to come here and undermine our local industry. Don't presume to lecture me about my fault in this, I didn't buy one of these cars, you did.
Oh, and BTW, before asking where my television etc came from I had no choice; we haven't built them here for over 20 years (although it is an old rear projection built in Japan).

Please do not get personal on the discussion. Its not needed. The only problem with the discussion is the generalization and it is very near the fact. Many buy on price, I do and those who don't may have more money than sense. It just does come down to quality vs price and no one can bag anyone out for realizing that the quality FOR the price may be there for their particular needs.

Buying a German car ...... or anything from overseas and then bagging someone out for doing the same is just a little bit wrong. Obviously the German car suited your budget against your expectations ..... and isn't it wonderful that in Australia we have the choices? Makes the local produced cars that little bit better.

[Mitcon]

Oh so true, choice is a wonderful thing and we're very lucky to have so many in a country of our size.

Everyone is different, has different budgets or needs and tastes. Whats right for one is just plain wrong for another etc.

Anyways, we should be getting back on track for those interested in the vehicles or those that have something to say about them both good and bad as we do need to keep things balanced for readers to get good feedback.

Alot of people read up on things such as this without even being members of a forum, it's good to always try to keep comments constructive and welcoming as it may draw in and make it more attractive for more people to join the forum. Bad points or negatives can still be posted in a positive or constructive way and is better for everything in the end.

Don't want to scare em off lol

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by Mitcon

Hmmm, claws are starting to show j/k. I myself admitted in my posts I too am at fault for these exact reasons, no need to reiterate. But I was talking in general and not pointing fingers at anyone person.

But there is far more to it that just because you were loyal to your Aussie made (or should that really be assemabled) cars, though you also admit to owning a German in there as well. I too have bought my share of Aussie designed or made cars over the years as have many others.

And no fear even if your TV wasn't made in China, I'm sure you have at least hundreds of Chinese made items that you own. Clothes electronics, cookware, plastics, foods, electrics and a list that goes on forever.

And thats nothing do with with our high wages and we all enjoy them and think they aren't high enough. Aussie have been doing themselves in for many decades, and yes I'm too blame as well but I'm hardly take credit for most of the blame myself as you suggest. I'm first to admit it but I think there would be very few Aussies who could deny this themselves completly.

I support small local business as much as I can and where ever I can, and because we are part of a global industry even if we do buy imported goods and the dollar doesn't stop here. We are still helping local employment and our own economy.

The other factor is we are part of a bigger industry and place these days, it's global and not just us anymore. Oh and what is a Aussie or us as we are surely a nation built up of many creeds. So sure point the finger at me, but folks who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Oh and I didn't buy on price alone, my reasons for my choice were based on many factors. Price was only one. I like how you say most of the people here buy Aussie made like yourself and then add where possible. I could say the same thing, man it's easy to pass the buck and point fingers.

Why do some people have to make things personal, if I have offended anyone this was not my intent. But I don't think any Aussie is without blame, that is if you see our current markets and economies as a problem.

EDIT: as a side note all the money I saved on buying a more expensive car I used to employ small local business do to mods and other work on my vehicle. About $20k worth which I'm sure helped those small Aussies.

Rep comomg your way,makes to much sense,lol.

[ck11]

Mitcon, some very good points. It is unfair to blame someone for buying a non australian car. Not everyone has money to waste on a certain type of car if it doesnt meet their needs or is seen as less value compared to other brands, especially in this current climate where cost of living is so high. You can only protect an industry for so long before it will be exposed in this global economy.

Our manufacturers have the choice to adapt and be efficient or unfortunately close down. Not everything is based on price alone, german cars sell at a premium for their quality and engineering. If we cant compete on labour, then need to compete with more innovative and higher standards of engineering quality. If i recollect correctly engineering for the FORD figo sold in india was through collaboration with Aus, more of that needs to occur.

[FGII-XR6]

I try to avoid anything Chineese because of their histroy on human rights nothing much has changed so I feel supporting them we are supporting human rights violations

[ebxr8240]

Buy one knowing there can be issues..
We bought a Chinese quadbike.. New $500 .. Yamaha in similar size etc was over $2k...
We have replaced the bolts around rear axle..
But for the price we are in NO ways complaining..
They are bassically old Rodeo's.. Your decision on the $$$ to buy second hand Jap or Jap - Chinese made...NEW vehicle..
So you can afford to buy the new 5.0 Falcon when it comes out..!!!!!

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Please do not get personal on the discussion. Its not needed. The only problem with the discussion is the generalization and it is very near the fact. Many buy on price, I do and those who don't may have more money than sense. It just does come down to quality vs price and no one can bag anyone out for realizing that the quality FOR the price may be there for their particular needs.

Buying a German car ...... or anything from overseas and then bagging someone out for doing the same is just a little bit wrong. Obviously the German car suited your budget against your expectations ..... and isn't it wonderful that in Australia we have the choices? Makes the local produced cars that little bit better.

I didn't buy the german car, it was a gift. If it weren't for the terrible resale I would have sold it by now.
That said, I do take your point and Mitcon, not trying to get personal but you have your opinion and I have mine but the beautiful thing is, we're both entitled to have one.

[Mitcon]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Hey Mitcon,

Like your work, think I saw it on the 4WD forum?

Removing the factory rear bumper also removed your rear fog lamps, and left you with a fully functioning rear fog switch & wiring.

You could add LE Perei's 'RF178' rear fog lamp (used on Landrover), and mount it right_of_the_vehicles_centerline on your new rear bar somewhere, then connecting it to the factory rear fog wiring now currently sitting unused. You'd only need the one lamp!

Lamp costs about $19 and you'd also order the bracket $4.
http://www.perei.com.au/products/RF178.htm

Alternative suppliers:-
Three lamps on page, UK mob - they post stuff in you ring, accept Visa/MC:-
http://www.ncs-systems.com/res/423

Hella Australia;
Part No. 2302. $120 or so. Must be made of gold.
http://db.hella.com.au/cgi-bin/catal...w&flmaint=2278
(Used on some NSWFB tenders as a rear fog).

All examples are ADR 52/NVS compliant.

Kinda looks naked without it....

NOTE: Removing the factory rear fogs also removed the two rear red reflex reflectors, these are legally required under ADR/NVS, they are built into the rear fog lights on that model. So, you'd need to fit two red reflectors, symmetrically mounted at the rear end too, potential defect otherwise.

Hows this look KeepLeft

red reflectors either side on tailgate and LED high impact lens fog lamps on the bar