What problems have you had with your Mondeo?

[Mondaveo]

Hey there bundy, I've now done another 1000km since that event, and I haven't had a recurrence or any further issues. (I'm not totally convinced it will never resurface, but fot now I'm chalking it up as the computer "saw a 2".)

I wonder - did you also lose drive, or were you able to continue without stopping and restarting the engine?
From what I've read (online, 'cause this one is not covered in the owner's manual), "Transmission Limited Function" supposedly indicates the DCT has gone onto one clutch, but the car should still be drivable with half of its gears (1, 3 and 5 or 2, 4 and 6). Just for some reason, in my case I lost both clutches until I restarted the engine ("limited function" indeed!).

The fact you have warranty is definitely a good thing, but if your car is now running fine on all 6 gears with no current message, and if it didn't store a fault code (as mine didn't) they will probably have no way of telling anything ever went wrong with it. I'm not even sure if Pickles would be able to read the codes (although I believe it's standard OBD so should be doable) and I'm guessing they won't have access to any Ford software updates (unless they have some arrangement with a dealer or garage?). If you decide to take it up with them, ask what they'll do to investigate and take the advice of the others here regarding transmission fluid (i.e. was it changed on schedule and will they do a 'peace of mind' change under warranty).

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

Hey there bundy, I've now done another 1000km since that event, and I haven't had a recurrence or any further issues. (I'm not totally convinced it will never resurface, but fot now I'm chalking it up as the computer "saw a 2".)

I wonder - did you also lose drive, or were you able to continue without stopping and restarting the engine?
From what I've read (online, 'cause this one is not covered in the owner's manual), "Transmission Limited Function" supposedly indicates the DCT has gone onto one clutch, but the car should still be drivable with half of its gears (1, 3 and 5 or 2, 4 and 6). Just for some reason, in my case I lost both clutches until I restarted the engine ("limited function" indeed!).

The fact you have warranty is definitely a good thing, but if your car is now running fine on all 6 gears with no current message, and if it didn't store a fault code (as mine didn't) they will probably have no way of telling anything ever went wrong with it. I'm not even sure if Pickles would be able to read the codes (although I believe it's standard OBD so should be doable) and I'm guessing they won't have access to any Ford software updates (unless they have some arrangement with a dealer or garage?). If you decide to take it up with them, ask what they'll do to investigate and take the advice of the others here regarding transmission fluid (i.e. was it changed on schedule and will they do a 'peace of mind' change under warranty).

Hey there, thanks for the reply.

My symptoms were exactly as yours, although the check engine light remained on after re-starting. On the return trip from work this afternoon the transmission was shifting madly and registered an over temp alarm until I turned off the cruise control.

I took it straight to Ford and they advised a code of P0715 and gave me a quote for just over $2500 to replace a "power-shift sensor" somewhere inside the gear box. (10 hours labour plus sensor $582 and gaskets and oil)

Has anyone else had this problem? Am I being taken for a ride? Apparently there is a technical service bulletin on this code (but they wouldn't give me a copy)

They have re-set the engine light and the car seems to be driving normally, but I only drove from the dealers to home.

Cheers

George

[ope126]

A quick search; http://www.autocodes.com/p0715_ford.html

But there seems to be lots of info about it.

Don't you have a warranty through Pickles?
It should be at least a 3mth Statutory warranty.

I hope all is sorted for you soon!

[Mondaveo]

Hey there George,

For interest, I've been doing some research the past couple of days, and here's what I've found. Note that I'm no expert and have no first-hand experience, so you should take this for what it is: Googling and guesswork

Originally Posted by bundybear75

I took it straight to Ford and they advised a code of P0715 and gave me a quote for just over $2500 to replace a "power-shift sensor" somewhere inside the gear box. (10 hours labour plus sensor $582 and gaskets and oil)

To your price quote: OUCH!!!

P0715 appears in many results and seems to be a generic OBD-II code representing malfunction of the either Input Shaft Speed Sensor (ISS) or Turbine Speed Sensor (TSS) in the transmission. So that checks out.

Here is an excellent write-up about the Powershift transmission. It's for the 6DCT250 "dry" clutch in Fiesta and (petrol) Focus rather than the 6DCT450 "wet" clutch in (diesel) Focus and Mondeo, but they come from the same family of Getrag gearboxes so there should be many similarities. This mentions there are two Input Speed Sensors on the two input shafts, and I get the sense they are buried deep in the guts of the thing. Note the following passage:

Warning Modes & Limp Home Mode
...

• If the speed sensors fail on the input shaft, then the gears on that shaft are blocked.
• If the TCM itself or TR sensor (transmission range) fail, then both clutches are disengaged and the vehicle cannot be driven.
• These failure modes will trigger the MIL/CEL (malfunction indicator light/check engine light).

-----

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Am I being taken for a ride?

In my searches I found many people saying they fixed their P0715 error by replacing the ISS/TSS for under $100, but I don't think any of those were with Powershift transmissions. While your quote of $582 for the sensor sounds exorbitant, I suspect there's more hardware involved (this link suggests it's actually the whole TCM gets replaced) and the 10 hours labour speaks to the complexity of the work. Also, my Haynes manual for Mondeo - which covers conventional auto but not Powershift - says that ISS is not serviceable and you need a whole new tranny - so it could be worse!!

Fortunately you have warranty, so you should definitely flick it to Pickles and see what they make of it. I don't know what their process will be, but I'm confident you won't have to wear that expense.

Let us know how you get on!

Dave

[rondeo]

Just to add a bit more technical detail about the TCM on Mondeo powershift.

The TCM is inside the mechatronic unit which is the black plastic part to the front of the gearbox.

The following sensors relate to the TCM:

Speed sensor input shaft odd gears, inside TCM.
Speed sensor input shaft even gears, ditto.
Oil temperature sensor - Located on the TCM.
Temperature sensor control module inside the TCM a Temperature sensor redundancy.

Pressure sensors for control of the clutch pressure control solenoids.
Gearshift for position sensors gives the TCM information on the position of the four gearshift forks.

Inside the car in the middle console is the Gear Select Module (an electronic control unit or little computer) which sends driver stick movements to the TCM via the CAN bus.

Hopefully the above is correct and interesting, no hands on experience myself but it is from a reliable source, which cannot be reproduced, as usual.

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Hey there, thanks for the reply.

My symptoms were exactly as yours, although the check engine light remained on after re-starting. On the return trip from work this afternoon the transmission was shifting madly and registered an over temp alarm until I turned off the cruise control.

I took it straight to Ford and they advised a code of P0715 and gave me a quote for just over $2500 to replace a "power-shift sensor" somewhere inside the gear box. (10 hours labour plus sensor $582 and gaskets and oil)

Has anyone else had this problem? Am I being taken for a ride? Apparently there is a technical service bulletin on this code (but they wouldn't give me a copy)

They have re-set the engine light and the car seems to be driving normally, but I only drove from the dealers to home.

Cheers

George

Witholding TSB information seems to me just plain wrong if not illegal.
If such information is withheld in the belief that it will badly affect
the business of FmoCo, then they are simply crackers to put it mildly.
Problems with the Mondeo transmission don't look that common if you
go by info on the web, not gospel of course. TSBs for the Mondeo are
accessible by illegally entering the Ford etis website, silly as it is.
How is it panning out?

[bundybear75]

Update on the transmission issues:

Pickles use an independent warranty agent to provide their statuary warranties.

The agent sent me to an independent transmission shop in my home town who shrugged and said they haven't worked on one of these dual clutch cars but they would look it up and "have a go". Didn't fill me with confidence.

I rang the agent and managed to change the repairer to a transmission specialist in Canberra. I rang them and they were immediately familiar with the fault and what was required to repair.

The agent requires me to authorise the strip down and assessment of the transmission, requires a written report and quote, and if repairs are approved, will go ahead with payment for repairs. If they don't authorise the repair, I'm out of pocket for the strip down and I imagine the repair.

The car has been driving fine until today where it has been finding "neutral" between gears when shifting. The transmission specialist said this could be a symptom of the speed sensor fault.

Oh well fingers crossed they come through with the repairs for me.

[Deo]

That's odd by the agent on a few levels. Firstly that they would require a strip down 'in order to assess the transmission' - the problem is evident by the behaviour and codes, and opening it up won't actually make it clearer.

Secondly that they imply they have the right to decline the repair - this isn't like the situation of an extended warranty where they can claim fair wear & tear or lack of maintenance by the owner etc etc - you just bought the car and it's not fit for purpose!


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[Deo]

Out of interest what's the service history on the car? Was it done by a Ford dealer and can you be sure they actually changed the trans fluid? (Notice those
two facts aren't mutually exclusive!)

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[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by Deo

Out of interest what's the service history on the car? Was it done by a Ford dealer and can you be sure they actually changed the trans fluid? (Notice those
two facts aren't mutually exclusive!)

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According to the log books, the car was serviced by Ford dealerships every 15,000 as per schedule. The only ones not stamped are the 3000km inspection and the 7500km intermediate services.

I also asked my local Ford dealer to look up and they confirmed the 120,000 service was completed including the transmission.

The transmission specialist I am going to says he has done around 6 of these over the last few years with the same issue. Probably not a common problem but often enough to be concerning. I bought this as a commuter car (1000km per week) to replace my very tired old VP Commodore and I'm concerned I can't trust this one.

[Mondaveo]

Originally Posted by Deo

That's odd by the agent on a few levels.

Not that surprising to me - I'd say that they (Pickles/the agent) have a standard procedure that warranty authorisations require documentary evidence which they've specified as being a mechanical inspection report - as it happens that catch-all process is not a good fit for all issues.

Unfortunately if the error code was cleared and the car is not currently in limp mode and (mostly) drives fine, it might be difficult to prove to their satisfaction that there is a current fault, but I'm sure the transmission specialist can write something convincing (possibly including your inspection with Ford where the P0715 was diagnosed).

Watching with interest - my car seems to have a tendency to sometimes find neutral between 1st and 2nd gears when moving off, but I haven't been driving enough to establish if this represents a problem

[Deo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

I'm concerned I can't trust this one.

I'm confident you will have a solid car once this is done.
It's the old cliche of a cheap part failing and having a big impact because it is so hard to get to and therefore costing a bomb to fix!

Once they replace the component it won't fail again.

Please let us know how much the indie quotes/charges.
(because by the time the tranny is removed and opened there will be no option to get a second price or not proceed)


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[Deo]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

but I haven't been driving enough to establish if this represents a problem

That's definitely something to keep an eye on :( but if you aren't getting P0715 I don't know what to suggest, other than making sure the fluid is changed.

Edit: and TCM software updates guys, it's worth getting TCM updates.

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[Deo]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

standard procedure that warranty authorisations require documentary evidence which they've specified as being a mechanical inspection report

True and fair enough too - if they don't stipulate a strip-down.
If this specialist has done six of them I'm sure he can provide the diagnosis without even lifting the hoist and quote within 5%.




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[NZ XR6]

I hope this goes smoothly for you.

Modern autos may be more fuel efficient, but sometimes at the cost of reliability. My son sells used cars, and has some horror stories about VW DSG and Jap CVT boxes.

The Getrag box in the Mondeo seems OK though, and I expect yours will be fine once it's sorted.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

I hope this goes smoothly for you.

Modern autos may be more fuel efficient, but sometimes at the cost of reliability. My son sells used cars, and has some horror stories about VW DSG and Jap CVT boxes.

The Getrag box in the Mondeo seems OK though, and I expect yours will be fine once it's sorted.

Fingers crossed......

My introduction to Mondeo's has not been a good one.

The first one (owned for 28 hours only)



And then the transmission in the second one after 5 days......

[AGH]

Hi bundybear. I'm in the sin bin atm (my fault) but if you need anything or a pick up drop off at my end of town you have my number. Hope you have some joy soon.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Update on the transmission issues:

Pickles use an independent warranty agent to provide their statuary warranties.

The agent sent me to an independent transmission shop in my home town who shrugged and said they haven't worked on one of these dual clutch cars but they would look it up and "have a go". Didn't fill me with confidence.

I rang the agent and managed to change the repairer to a transmission specialist in Canberra. I rang them and they were immediately familiar with the fault and what was required to repair.

The agent requires me to authorise the strip down and assessment of the transmission, requires a written report and quote, and if repairs are approved, will go ahead with payment for repairs. If they don't authorise the repair, I'm out of pocket for the strip down and I imagine the repair.

The car has been driving fine until today where it has been finding "neutral" between gears when shifting. The transmission specialist said this could be a symptom of the speed sensor fault.

Oh well fingers crossed they come through with the repairs for me.

After lots of mucking around the warranty agent has finally approved the repairs. Down side is the transmission specialist can't get it till early March.

Also got advice today that the insurance company is finally settling on the first Mondeo I brought. Nice to have a little good news for a change.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

After lots of mucking around the warranty agent has finally approved the repairs. Down side is the transmission specialist can't get it till early March.

Also got advice today that the insurance company is finally settling on the first Mondeo I brought. Nice to have a little good news for a change.

Got the Mondeo back last Wednesday and have done about 1000 km since then.

Drives much better, gear changes at low speeds are much smoother and no neutrals between gears any more.

Fingers crossed that is the end of the problems for a while.

On a side note, when I got home after picking it up (115km drive), The warning "i" came on with a low battery alert. Came on again the next morning when I put the key in. Started up fine and drove 5 min to the servo where I get my morning coffee. Warning never came up again

[bundybear75]

The $2500 culprit.........

[rondeo]

What wire is that?

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by rondeo

What wire is that?

That supposedly is the dodgy speed sensor.

[Mondaveo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

That supposedly is the dodgy speed sensor.

Thanks for sharing. Did they run any kind of test on the component itself once it was extracted to confirm it is faulty? Or did they just install the replacement, and confirmation is implied by the fact the car works now?

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

Thanks for sharing. Did they run any kind of test on the component itself once it was extracted to confirm it is faulty? Or did they just install the replacement, and confirmation is implied by the fact the car works now?

Not sure if they tested the sensor after it was removed, they said they have done a half dozen or so with the same fault code/symptoms so they seem to know what they are on about.

I asked them if it would happen again in another 130,000 km but they advised that the new sensor has been re-designed and they havent had one back a second time. Not sure if this is true or if I was getting the fob off but the car does drive well now.

[Deo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Not sure if this is true

It's entirely correct


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[rondeo]

Originally Posted by Deo

It's entirely correct


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Thanks Deo, maybe you could elaborate?

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by Deo

It's entirely correct


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This is good news, I plan on doing about 45,000 km per year in this car and hope to get at least 4 years without too much trouble.

Deo, do you have any information on the new sensor? Did Ford realise there was an issue?

[cobrin]

looks like the Powershift Turbine (Input) Speed Sensor but I'd be guessing.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by cobrin

looks like the Powershift Turbine (Input) Speed Sensor but I'd be guessing.

According to the invoice :-

AM7M5R-7H103-BA DCT450 transmission input speed sensor 1.00 $522.85

Expensive little sucker......

[Mondaveo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

According to the invoice :-

AM7M5R-7H103-BA DCT450 transmission input speed sensor 1.00 $522.85

Expensive little sucker......

Hmm, I was under the impression (where the discussion got to previously in this thread) that the whole TCM would get replaced, but then I guess $500 would be extremely cheap for a whole computer module.

On the other hand, with reports abounding on the Internet of people replacing input sensors for <$100, that is dang expensive for a sensor! Though I've no doubt it would be very specialised for Powershift DCT.

So the rest of the invoice is just labour + transmission fluid change?