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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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02-11-2011, 10:43 AM | #121 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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XT is for national fleet customers only now, its not longer an option for private / small business. In Fords eyes XR6 is now the base model for private / small business. Holden are doing the same with Omega, unless your a national fleet customer they are actually dearer then SV6.
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02-11-2011, 10:54 AM | #122 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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What makes you think the EcoBoost will have 400nm??? Ford have previously indicated they will not be going for big spec numbers, but rather they will be concentrating on fuel economy and drivability …
The 2012 Focus ST is rated at 185kw and 360nm … I see these numbers as the maximum the Falcon may be getting, but more realistically the Falcon numbers will probably be slightly lower … remember this engine is not designed to win a grand prix but rather deliver good economy with efficient drivability … with the weight of the Falcon going after big numbers means the 8ltr per 100km target will be unachievable … Quote:
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02-11-2011, 11:01 AM | #123 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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02-11-2011, 11:01 AM | #124 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
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I actually heard from a mate who is an engineer with a supplier that works closely with Ford on important parts of the vehicle that they actually have detuned the EcoBoost package a little for that exact criteria and that the test drivers were really, really surprised at how well it went.
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02-11-2011, 11:02 AM | #125 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
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Considering this engine is in other Fords world wide like the new Focus ST, its not just what people here in Australia can do with their aftermarket wizzardry. |
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02-11-2011, 01:22 PM | #126 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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would`nt be amusing if the little engined falc became the best handling model ever because of the weight loss/distribution factor......... GT stripes anyone .
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02-11-2011, 01:26 PM | #127 | ||
The Futuriser
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,836
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I'm really looking forward to the Ecoboost Falcon. After all the reports from the States, It'll be interesting to see how it goes in the Falcon!
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02-11-2011, 01:45 PM | #128 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Has the potential to be that BUT ...
A. Previous reports have indicated that Ford will most likely not introduce it in the XR range. B. FPV will not be releasing am ore hotted up version. So being confined to the G's and GE's its unlikely ... that is unless you fit a proper aftermarket suspension to the Falcon Quote:
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02-11-2011, 01:47 PM | #129 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Oh I'll work it out just for fun:- Maybe the retail driveaway on an Ecoboost might be something like circa $54,990 and you can buy an XR6 on run-out for $34,990, difference = $20,000, so at 2 litres per 100 km's more efficient, (estimate 7.9 litres per 100 km's for Ecoboost vs 9.9 for inline 6) and with fuel at say $1.60 = 12,500 litres / 2 x 100 = 625,000 km's divided by an average per annum of 15,000 km's motoring per annum = 41 years motoring See what I mean by early adopters paying retail and getting bent over. Anyone genuinely interested in low cost large car motoring will simply buy an XR6 on run-out special pricing. Last edited by Rodge; 02-11-2011 at 02:00 PM. |
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02-11-2011, 02:05 PM | #130 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
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Fleets Rodge.... And greenies that don't care. Holden cylinder deactivation or sidi crap marketing over substance anyone....
Amazing what they can do with two litres these days, I drove a big VW Amarok 4wd in Darwin a while ago, hard to believe only two-litre engine.
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02-11-2011, 02:21 PM | #131 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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Trev, Fair comment about Fleet discounts but the retail customer is left paying through the nose if they want the latest new technology, that's my point.
Greenies buy hybrids, (trsut me I know I am married to one), and yes Sidi is creative marketing B.S. at its finest. |
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02-11-2011, 02:23 PM | #132 | ||
Fossil fuel consumer
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Borderline racism is not acceptable. No further chances.
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02-11-2011, 02:24 PM | #133 | ||
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Because I like the latest technology but resent fleets getting big discounts early on when I can't You can't tell me that doesn't put heaps of people off. The same applies to all the new retail pricing on FG2, its just so excessive the retail customer is seriously disadvantaged.
Last edited by GT; 02-11-2011 at 02:58 PM. Reason: quoted post and not required comment |
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02-11-2011, 02:46 PM | #134 | |||
You dig, we stick!
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What gives you the impression more torque isn't better for economy? |
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02-11-2011, 03:18 PM | #135 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Well to make more power the engine needs to burn more fuel …
When looking at the same engine, and assuming the engine in the same efficiency band (i.e. you are not trying to make too little power or too much power) a lower power out figure will be more economical than a higher power output figure … that is because more power requires more air, and more air requires more fuel to burn to maintain the same air/fuel mixture … (assuming the same efficiency band tuning is applied). The statement above may sometimes be counteracted when too little power is applied to a weight of a vehicle, hence making the higher power tune more economical, but in the Falcons case too little power is probably well below 300nm before it starts affecting economy negatively … When looking at other current implementations of the Ecoboost I can see the Volvo XC70 being a good reference point to the Falcon as it has similar dimensions and weight to the Falcon (i.e. large car) … its economy is 8.7ltr and its power figures are 177kw and 320nm, its 4wd so there is some extra drive train loss in there … The Focus ST on the other hand will have more power and better fuel economy of 7.7ltr but it’s a much lighter FWD car … That’s why I think the Falcon’s power will fall somewhere in between these two … unless Ford in not interested of achieving its original advertised 8ltr fuel economy targets … also don’t forget the Focus ST is tuned for premium fuel only, I would be surprised if Ford did the same for the Falcon and made it incompatible with 91. Quote:
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02-11-2011, 03:23 PM | #136 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Brochures are now on line for Mk2. Looks like Ford are holding back some info as the details and full specifications are very limited.
No rear and shots of the cars, no interior pictures etc. |
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02-11-2011, 03:53 PM | #137 | ||||
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Last edited by Falc'man; 02-11-2011 at 03:58 PM. |
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02-11-2011, 04:10 PM | #138 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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02-11-2011, 04:12 PM | #139 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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To start with, the I4 is coming out at the start out next year, all of FG1 run out models will be gone & FGII will have only been out 1-2 months, so there won’t be any 35K run out models in the market... They'll most likely come back at some stage, but by then they'll be some 4I's to add to the mix, or maybe they wont lift build rate, so between LPi, normal I6 & I4, the might not be many run-out deals for a loonng time!!!! And people really save money on pruis??? |
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02-11-2011, 04:19 PM | #140 | ||
7,753
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I would have thought by now we have had enough ecoboost threads. Unless I have missed something Ecoboost I4 is not part of this release i.e. FG Mk2 online.
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02-11-2011, 04:28 PM | #141 | ||||
You dig, we stick!
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This is about efficiency. Making more from less, or the same - If they can do so then why shouldn't they? I've shown how it's a possibility in my previous post. |
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02-11-2011, 04:57 PM | #142 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2010
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You right bulk buying should yield you a discount …. BUT a discount of 20 – 30 % of the RRP is a bit much and simply means you are inflating your RRP to convince the fleets you are giving them a “big discount”.
Also do not forget that the Dealers are also buying the cars in bulk (well the big dealer networks anyways) which means they will easily get the same “big discounts” from Ford just like the fleets if not better … while they will want a greater profit, they can still pass a lot of that saving back to the consumer if they wish to sell … Ultimately the whole inflated RRP strategy just does not work … the market is not stupid and simply prices these cars at their real price which generally equals to the “big fleet discount”, otherwise private buyers simply do not buy them … The best strategy is the one VW uses, that is fleets get Farkall discount of the RRP price (or very very little) for the majority of their models (GTI or Rspec ...) the market is happy and gladly pays RRP prices, second hand cars keep their value very well, and everyone is happy (both consumer, dealer, and manufacturer) … Ford’s strategy simply devalues their cars, keeps the private market mostly away, and does no favours to anyone. Quote:
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02-11-2011, 05:11 PM | #143 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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02-11-2011, 05:35 PM | #144 | |||
You dig, we stick!
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02-11-2011, 05:47 PM | #145 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Back on topic, and some self-interest, the MKII G6ET picks up as standard sat nav, 19" rims & alarm which were options on MK1 so that's about $4500 at rrp. Anything else?
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02-11-2011, 05:50 PM | #146 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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something like that would take a bit of $36,990 price fatigue off the XR and G Series models. Even though Ford has used discount XR to great effect, i feel that long term it's not good to do that. A prettier XT could fill that role and allow Ford to move XR6 up a rung, but only if Holden plays ball.... Maybe start matching Holden's "International" with XT SR or even the old "Futura" badge for specials.... |
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02-11-2011, 05:52 PM | #147 | ||
It's not an FG MKI.......
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Territory
Posts: 7,435
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Might be trivial to some, but rather annoying to others, but why does the FG now get called the FG MKI when it never existed?
Just because Ford have released an update and called it MKII doesn't mean the FG is now called MKI.
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02-11-2011, 05:58 PM | #148 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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as in XF, EA, EB, AU, BA, BF so why should FG be any different, it will happen regardless due to used vehicle sector taking up the nomenclature.... |
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02-11-2011, 06:14 PM | #149 | |||
Rob
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Location: Woodcroft S.A.
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the original is what it is. then there's a mk2/series 2 etc. |
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02-11-2011, 06:18 PM | #150 | |||
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Isnt this argumentative? |
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