Gay Marriage in Australia?

[|||]

i'm all for gay marriage. we're meant to be the land of the "fair go" & equality for all.

the only arguments i've heard against gay mariage are religious or the fact that marriage is supposed to encourage breeding. i'll ignore the religious reasoning as i simply dont believe in god, but with regards to the breeding reasoning how far should we go? should couples who are unable to conceive a child be barred from marriage? how about those who just don't want kids? are they undermining the sanctity of marriage?

there's no logical argument for denying one section of society the same rights as others.

[Redrum]

I voted no. I am not religious, but from my understanding of Christianity which is this countries prominent religion the bible clearly states marriage to be that of a man and a woman.

I am not against same sex couples being recognized legally the same as being married but feel allowing them to be recognized as married is just anther erosion of our values and traditions.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by Streets

Why?

Simple really. Minority groups are ruining the country cause "they want".

Who in the hell is gonna stand up and bloody well say NO.

Marriage equals the union of a man and a woman. There's the definition.

[fmc351]

Long before religions hijacked marriage, people were united for life in marriage. Various tribes have had marriage ceremonies long before anyone thought to organise religion.

What the bible says a marriage is, should be irrelevant. The one right our constitution does provide us as individuals is a freedom of religion.

s.116
Commonwealth not to legislate in respect of religion

The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

[SB076]

Looking up the definition of marriage its listed as a union between a male and female.

I have no problem with people of the same sex living together and being in a relationship - however I dont beleive its necessary to change a meaning of a word to reflect this.

Edit I agree with Falcon force, maybe there can be a new word that better represents same sex couples.

[Chopped]

Are we really ready for Gay marriage if you have to walk on eggshells when it comes to discussing it ??

Just a thought . . . . .

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by FalconForce

good on you for putting your opinion in such a nice, straight to the point way without being offensive. I dont think that anyone should have to tread on eggshells as a gay man i actually prefer when people tell me what they actually feel without being offensive because i can take info away from that comment and help to shape my view on how others feel about it.

surely a civil wedding wouldn't offend any people of faith?

Mate can I say that this post is the most balance I have seen from a gay person. Usually you get attacked by people who are gay for voicing an opposite opinion. I just wanted to say well done with the way you approach things and how you take people opinions on board and try to understand the opposite view. Again you don't have to agree but aleast your trying to see all points of view. So well done

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by fmc351

What the bible says a marriage is, should be irrelevant.

Says who ?

[mcnews]

This opinion piece by Anson Cameron I thought was well reasoned.

---

Few people have vilified more suspected homosexuals with more success than me.

My witticisms used to ring as the top note in a symphony of aspersions and I got a lot of laughs from a lot of folks, as Johnny Cash sang about a boy named Sue. How many men and boys I sent toward self-loathing and high bridges I couldn't say. Hopefully, rather than hating themselves they hated me. That would have been just and the emotion better targeted.

I have no defence really, apart from I was young and heartless and ignorant enough to believe difference was defect. And deriding others was then, as it is now, a way of vindicating oneself. If homosexuality is wrong, then I am right. No room in the young mind for two rights.

But life eventually intrudes on unjustifiable prejudices. If you have any intellectual honesty at all they are hard to maintain. Unreasoning and unearned hate usually dies in an honest person as they get older.

Faith, however, puts you outside the realm of intellectual honesty. Don't think, it demands; the ancients have already done that for you. This freedom to believe without thinking allows for the continuation of otherwise unjustifiable prejudices into adulthood and makes it possible for svelte Christian honeys like Rebecca Hagelin to jetset around giving off spleen about the lives of others.

The Australian Family Association, a Christian lobby group, booked The Great Hall in Parliament House on Monday and had Rebecca, an author of Christian self-help books, fly in from whatever part of the States they are still free to revile queers.

She spoke of same-sex marriage, and to hear her on the radio name-checking Sodom and Gomorrah made me stop in my tracks. She said there was "no greater evil" than the forces who proposed to legalise gay marriage and that we were in a "war for the future of the human race".

Sodom and Gomorrah are generally reckoned by believers to have perished as a result of the grievous sins of their inhabitants. God had had enough of their shenanigans and stamped his foot. Murdered the populations of two cities, in which, surely a sprinkling of the kiddies hadn't yet sinned, and the lame, though willing, were unable.

Christians won't allow any thought of God making mistakes, being all-wise as he is. So we can assume Rebecca Hagelin believes God was on the money handing out wholesale homicide to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins. And by mentioning that twin-city massacre in the case of the legalisation of gay marriage in Australia she is implying, presumably, that God would be right to repeat the dose.

Implying we invite our own murder at the hands of her God if we allow a couple of dudes to tie the knot and partake of a measure of equality seems a tad over the top to me. That all those cute kids doing silly things on Australia's Funniest Home Videos be washed away in a flood because Denise and Rachel twin their surname and surname some twins. Talk about breaking a butterfly on a wheel.

But The Australian Family Association lapped her up. Rebecca Hagelin was a hit with the flock in Canberra. She told them if Australia allowed gay marriage, "anything'' such as polygamy and marriage between paedophiles and children ''could be called marriage". Except of course, the first would be legal, because we decided to make it legal. And the other two illegal because we didn't.

Nationals Senate leader Barnaby Joyce was on hand to address the National Marriage Coalition, too. He said his four daughters would be affected if same-sex marriage was allowed. "We know that the best protection for those girls is that they get themselves into a secure relationship with a loving husband and I want that to happen for them. I don't want any legislator to take that right away from me." I have no idea what he meant. I never do. But since he used his daughters as part of the argument, would it be wrong of me to hope at least one of them was sapphically inclined and, in later life, entreated him to walk her down the aisle and give her away to someone called Julia? After his blather he auctioned Bob Katter's hat. It made a good price because it comes with a hinge at the back and flips up like a dunny lid to reveal Katter's brain.

But back to the star attraction; Rebecca Hagelin. "Any society that has strayed from the definition of one man and one woman has eventually collapsed. We know ancient Rome and ancient Greece experimented with it. And of course they disappeared.'' Well, no, they became modern Greece and Italy.

But the upside of the hateful scaremongering of hook-line-and-sinker Christians is it only works on other hook-line-and-sinker Christians. The rest of us aren't shaken by threats of an Apocalypse triggered by wedlock.

So, perhaps, Rebecca, you could take your Biblical extortions back to the Bible Belt where they might make the people cower and fret. I don't know if Mississippians are up for legalising gay marriage, but I definitely saw people in that state wearing garments containing two kinds of thread. And Tennessee? Lordy. A dark and venal place where I witnessed grown men eating cloven-hoofed critters.

[Work Horse]

I "married " my wife, in a civil service, in front of a Celebrant.

We are not religious, so there was no mention of God or Christianity during our legal marriage service.

Interestingly there are many Christian groups that would have been happy to marry us in their church, despite the fact we are both atheists.

There are also Christian groups that would not allow us to be married in there church because of our beliefs.

I support the rights of churches to decide who they will allow to marry in their church.

I also support the rights of gay people to be legally married, just as I am.

I'm old enough to remember similar debates about legalising being gay.

I hope I'm young enough to see this debate go the same way.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Long before religions hijacked marriage, people were united for life in marriage. Various tribes have had marriage ceremonies long before anyone thought to organise religion.

What the bible says a marriage is, should be irrelevant. The one right our constitution does provide us as individuals is a freedom of religion.

s.116
Commonwealth not to legislate in respect of religion

The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

i'm a big fan of our constitution, constitutional law the gov has to abide by.
i suppose the gay movement could challenge the gov with a bunch of queens counsel, be interesting sitting in the high court public arena..

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by burnz

i suppose the gay movement could challenge the gov with a bunch of queens counsel, be interesting sitting in the high court public arena..

Especially if the queens counsel were indeed queens :-)

[pottery beige]

it doesnt affect me.. so why should i be concerned?? lols how it upsets some others...

[THE CADBURY KID]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Marriage = Yes
Children (Obviously IVF/adopt/surrogate) = No

I agree fully.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

We have on many occasions already in this great land of ours.

Exactly. And our world as we know it hasn't come to an end as a result. In fact, it has made the country a better place.

Originally Posted by Rapid Axe

Minority groups are ruining the country cause "they want".

How are gay people ruining the country by wanting equal rights?

[arlester]

Finally managed to read through the entire thread.

I'm probably going to open myself up here for the arguments and ridicule but I am gay.
I don't see marriage as a big thing but it would be nice to have the option there. I am only young at the moment (20) but when I am older I would like to marry and settle down with someone that I love.

Some of the other posters mention that it's about christianity and the age old tradition of it being between man and women.
As long as my research is correct then gay couples have been around long before christianity and the belief that it is meant to be between man and women. My view on it is as long as two people love each other and want to share their life together then why can't they get married? They don't have to have the ceremony in a church or anything but why not legally call it marriage?

It isn't like gay people choose to be that way either. This is possible to start into another argument but you don't know unless you have had it happen to you.
I don't have a explanation for this but it's just when you are growing up you figure out you have an attraction to the same sex. It's nothing you can help. It is sort of like food. I am in the minority here as well where I don't like pasta. It's just because I don't like the taste of it not because I chose not to eat it.

Another thing someone mentioned was suicide rates for young males. I figured out my attraction to males at the young age of 13. However I was petrified of telling my father because I knew what he's reaction would be. I even tried having a girlfriend to try and turn myself straight however after 2 years of doing this I realised it wasn't going to work.
Finally at the age of 18 I told my mother while we were on our way to shopping. The first thing that came out of her mouth was don't tell your father. This again made me pursue girls so I could hide it and again try to change myself. Now I look back I was ashamed and trying to change something I could not help.
After telling a few people word finally got back to him about it. Now I work in car sales and was dealing with some customers. While those customers were talking to my business manager I got a phone call. Which started with:
Dad: I've heard a rumour
Me: Was is that (Knowing full well what was coming).
Dad: Your a poofter. Don't bother coming home tonight you'll just get kicked out.

Ever since then I have not spoken to him. I love him with all my heart but he doesn't want a bar of it. This is mostly the reason for Young male suicide. Acceptance is what they are after.

Sorry for writing a whole essay about my life but sometimes it is good for people to see how life affects people when they find out they are gay.
My vote is going to YES let them marry. The history is there of this happening. It is just religion and the legal side. But why can't they legally be married? Like I said they don't need to have the ceremony in a church or anything.

[mcnews]

Terrible story mate. Your dad would be missing out and it will haunt him when is older I am sure. Hopefully when he matures as much as you have he will try to make contact again and make up for his sins.

And for others - Yes allowing same-sex marriage helps to break down another barrier so it is less easy for current day parents to have attitudes like this towards their kids. I can't imagine how this is not a good thing.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by |||

i'm all for gay marriage. we're meant to be the land of the "fair go" & equality for all.

the only arguments i've heard against gay mariage are religious or the fact that marriage is supposed to encourage breeding. i'll ignore the religious reasoning as i simply dont believe in god, but with regards to the breeding reasoning how far should we go? should couples who are unable to conceive a child be barred from marriage? how about those who just don't want kids? are they undermining the sanctity of marriage?

there's no logical argument for denying one section of society the same rights as others.

Chris******* ( i can't even say the word for fear of the PC wigers) is the only reason we had a great nation but now we have moronic fools running around like chooks pushing all stupid idiot dumb things because they are just so selfish and ignorant and so now we have these creeps running around pushing their low life filth on others.

The thing is they are so narrow minded and short sighted they can't see it.

Two bobs can not be called a marriage because it is extremely offensive and it is just another vicious assault and a attack on the truth of true marriage by fair din cum full on low life bastards.

We have dim wits that like to push the lowest denominator around ,about just stupid yobbos who happened to get married.
And i tell you yobbos Marriage is not a one day event, but a life long event and it's about raising children and being a true famly. it is not a joke it's about full on commitment.

The democracy god won't save you. And your liberal god nor will the commo god. nor will you PC god.

Wake up AUSTRALIA and grow up because without firm foundations you will crash just like a stupid foolish drunk at the wheel.

The so called Gay's can have all their entitled to but don't call it a Marriage.

[ltd]

Marriage as I understand it is the reunification of man and woman. As woman was derived from the rib of Adam, the reunification bit makes sense.

I'm not against gays having a civil union, but marriage is the domain of religion and should be allowed to stay withing it's definition.

Two fellas does not derive the reunification of Adam's rib. It's two of Adams ribs joining. Call the civil union a Ribwich.

This all comes down to respect. We're asked to respect the rights of homosexuals, yet they don't seem to want the respect the religious definion of the word marriage. Pick another word.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by ltd

Marriage as I understand it is the reunification of man and woman. As woman was derived from the rib of Adam, the reunification bit makes sense.

I'm not against gays having a civil union, but marriage is the domain of religion and should be allowed to stay withing it's definition.

Two fellas does not derive the reunification of Adam's rib. It's two of Adams ribs joining. Call the civil union a Ribwich.

This all comes down to respect. We're asked to respect the rights of homosexuals, yet they don't seem to want the respect the religious definion of the word marriage. Pick another word.

Religion does not own the rights to marriage.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by mcnews

This opinion piece by Anson Cameron I thought was well reasoned.

---

Few people have vilified more suspected homosexuals with more success than me.

My witticisms used to ring as the top note in a symphony of aspersions and I got a lot of laughs from a lot of folks, as Johnny Cash sang about a boy named Sue. How many men and boys I sent toward self-loathing and high bridges I couldn't say. Hopefully, rather than hating themselves they hated me. That would have been just and the emotion better targeted.

I have no defence really, apart from I was young and heartless and ignorant enough to believe difference was defect. And deriding others was then, as it is now, a way of vindicating oneself. If homosexuality is wrong, then I am right. No room in the young mind for two rights.

But life eventually intrudes on unjustifiable prejudices. If you have any intellectual honesty at all they are hard to maintain. Unreasoning and unearned hate usually dies in an honest person as they get older.

Faith, however, puts you outside the realm of intellectual honesty. Don't think, it demands; the ancients have already done that for you. This freedom to believe without thinking allows for the continuation of otherwise unjustifiable prejudices into adulthood and makes it possible for svelte Christian honeys like Rebecca Hagelin to jetset around giving off spleen about the lives of others.

The Australian Family Association, a Christian lobby group, booked The Great Hall in Parliament House on Monday and had Rebecca, an author of Christian self-help books, fly in from whatever part of the States they are still free to revile queers.

She spoke of same-sex marriage, and to hear her on the radio name-checking Sodom and Gomorrah made me stop in my tracks. She said there was "no greater evil" than the forces who proposed to legalise gay marriage and that we were in a "war for the future of the human race".

Sodom and Gomorrah are generally reckoned by believers to have perished as a result of the grievous sins of their inhabitants. God had had enough of their shenanigans and stamped his foot. Murdered the populations of two cities, in which, surely a sprinkling of the kiddies hadn't yet sinned, and the lame, though willing, were unable.

Christians won't allow any thought of God making mistakes, being all-wise as he is. So we can assume Rebecca Hagelin believes God was on the money handing out wholesale homicide to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins. And by mentioning that twin-city massacre in the case of the legalisation of gay marriage in Australia she is implying, presumably, that God would be right to repeat the dose.

Implying we invite our own murder at the hands of her God if we allow a couple of dudes to tie the knot and partake of a measure of equality seems a tad over the top to me. That all those cute kids doing silly things on Australia's Funniest Home Videos be washed away in a flood because Denise and Rachel twin their surname and surname some twins. Talk about breaking a butterfly on a wheel.

But The Australian Family Association lapped her up. Rebecca Hagelin was a hit with the flock in Canberra. She told them if Australia allowed gay marriage, "anything'' such as polygamy and marriage between paedophiles and children ''could be called marriage". Except of course, the first would be legal, because we decided to make it legal. And the other two illegal because we didn't.

Nationals Senate leader Barnaby Joyce was on hand to address the National Marriage Coalition, too. He said his four daughters would be affected if same-sex marriage was allowed. "We know that the best protection for those girls is that they get themselves into a secure relationship with a loving husband and I want that to happen for them. I don't want any legislator to take that right away from me." I have no idea what he meant. I never do. But since he used his daughters as part of the argument, would it be wrong of me to hope at least one of them was sapphically inclined and, in later life, entreated him to walk her down the aisle and give her away to someone called Julia? After his blather he auctioned Bob Katter's hat. It made a good price because it comes with a hinge at the back and flips up like a dunny lid to reveal Katter's brain.

But back to the star attraction; Rebecca Hagelin. "Any society that has strayed from the definition of one man and one woman has eventually collapsed. We know ancient Rome and ancient Greece experimented with it. And of course they disappeared.'' Well, no, they became modern Greece and Italy.

But the upside of the hateful scaremongering of hook-line-and-sinker Christians is it only works on other hook-line-and-sinker Christians. The rest of us aren't shaken by threats of an Apocalypse triggered by wedlock.

So, perhaps, Rebecca, you could take your Biblical extortions back to the Bible Belt where they might make the people cower and fret. I don't know if Mississippians are up for legalising gay marriage, but I definitely saw people in that state wearing garments containing two kinds of thread. And Tennessee? Lordy. A dark and venal place where I witnessed grown men eating cloven-hoofed critters.

Anson is off with the pixies.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by arlester

Finally managed to read through the entire thread.

I'm probably going to open myself up here for the arguments and ridicule but I am gay.
I don't see marriage as a big thing but it would be nice to have the option there. I am only young at the moment (20) but when I am older I would like to marry and settle down with someone that I love.

Some of the other posters mention that it's about christianity and the age old tradition of it being between man and women.
As long as my research is correct then gay couples have been around long before christianity and the belief that it is meant to be between man and women. My view on it is as long as two people love each other and want to share their life together then why can't they get married? They don't have to have the ceremony in a church or anything but why not legally call it marriage?

It isn't like gay people choose to be that way either. This is possible to start into another argument but you don't know unless you have had it happen to you.
I don't have a explanation for this but it's just when you are growing up you figure out you have an attraction to the same sex. It's nothing you can help. It is sort of like food. I am in the minority here as well where I don't like pasta. It's just because I don't like the taste of it not because I chose not to eat it.

Another thing someone mentioned was suicide rates for young males. I figured out my attraction to males at the young age of 13. However I was petrified of telling my father because I knew what he's reaction would be. I even tried having a girlfriend to try and turn myself straight however after 2 years of doing this I realised it wasn't going to work.
Finally at the age of 18 I told my mother while we were on our way to shopping. The first thing that came out of her mouth was don't tell your father. This again made me pursue girls so I could hide it and again try to change myself. Now I look back I was ashamed and trying to change something I could not help.
After telling a few people word finally got back to him about it. Now I work in car sales and was dealing with some customers. While those customers were talking to my business manager I got a phone call. Which started with:
Dad: I've heard a rumour
Me: Was is that (Knowing full well what was coming).
Dad: Your a poofter. Don't bother coming home tonight you'll just get kicked out.

Ever since then I have not spoken to him. I love him with all my heart but he doesn't want a bar of it. This is mostly the reason for Young male suicide. Acceptance is what they are after.

Sorry for writing a whole essay about my life but sometimes it is good for people to see how life affects people when they find out they are gay.
My vote is going to YES let them marry. The history is there of this happening. It is just religion and the legal side. But why can't they legally be married? Like I said they don't need to have the ceremony in a church or anything.

reading that brought a tear to my eye mate .
your only young . i just hope that you know , people have all types of greivences and struggles with thier parents of all topics . i was ashamed to have a girl friend , because i thought my family was abnormal , and i was part of it . it made me feel ugly and different . and we're all hetero , alcohol can bring around the same discomfort mate .
please realise there are many burdens in life , yours is not unique .cheers

[gtfpv]

great reading this thread . i still think marraige is for a man and a woman , religion for me has nothing to do with it . same as i think you can be gay and a christian , you dont have to be an athiest because your gay , everyone is a sinner , the bible states that . and we all fall short , i would just like to say , being gay is wrong in religion , so is stealing , porn , bad thoughts , being bitter. lying , drinking to get drunk , hatred .i'm guilty of more than one of those , i bet all are . all can be forgiven , thats what religion is all about , thats why its for all . anyways .
keeping religion out of it . i think marraige has its own place for a man and a woman . anything else or other form of it , has to be called something else .

[arlester]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

reading that brought a tear to my eye mate .
your only young . i just hope that you know , people have all types of greivences and struggles with thier parents of all topics . i was ashamed to have a girl friend , because i thought my family was abnormal , and i was part of it . it made me feel ugly and different . and we're all hetero , alcohol can bring around the same discomfort mate .
please realise there are many burdens in life , yours is not unique .cheers

Don't feel sad for it. I have gotten over it myself.
I know that my case is not unique. I also understand that people have differences in life all the time. I do disagree with you saying we are all hetero though. If that is meaning heterosexual. Of course if you mean it by your own family then I retract that.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by arlester

Don't feel sad for it. I have gotten over it myself.
I know that my case is not unique. I also understand that people have differences in life all the time. I do disagree with you saying we are all hetero though. If that is meaning heterosexual.

I think he was referring to his own family, pointing out hetero families can have big problems too.

[lilmattie]

In true meaning - "Marriage" is for man and woman.
"Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Steve" - sorry - had to slip that one in.

Without going into huge specifics.. The whole discussion stems from your world point of view.

IF you believe there is no God and we all evolved from microbial pond scum.. then same sex marriage isn't an issue. Anything goes; including all reason for morality, life purpose.. We would have no reason for living, other than to fulfill our own purpose and once we die - nothing. There's no point to life/or to live.

However..

If God does exist, and he created all things, then a lot of other things that people do (including gay relationships); are morally wrong (as defined by God ref: Bible). - my belief!

Our society's laws were originally based on judaeo-christian ethics; which is Biblical ethics and morality.

Yes, heterosexual marriages have problems and fail. I would see that as a failing of the 'person' not the institution of marriage. Can a man and man or a woman and a woman have children naturally - negative ghostrider!

+1 against.

[hamoudy10]

Originally Posted by arlester

Finally managed to read through the entire thread.

I'm probably going to open myself up here for the arguments and ridicule but I am gay.
I don't see marriage as a big thing but it would be nice to have the option there. I am only young at the moment (20) but when I am older I would like to marry and settle down with someone that I love.

Some of the other posters mention that it's about christianity and the age old tradition of it being between man and women.
As long as my research is correct then gay couples have been around long before christianity and the belief that it is meant to be between man and women. My view on it is as long as two people love each other and want to share their life together then why can't they get married? They don't have to have the ceremony in a church or anything but why not legally call it marriage?

It isn't like gay people choose to be that way either. This is possible to start into another argument but you don't know unless you have had it happen to you.
I don't have a explanation for this but it's just when you are growing up you figure out you have an attraction to the same sex. It's nothing you can help. It is sort of like food. I am in the minority here as well where I don't like pasta. It's just because I don't like the taste of it not because I chose not to eat it.

Another thing someone mentioned was suicide rates for young males. I figured out my attraction to males at the young age of 13. However I was petrified of telling my father because I knew what he's reaction would be. I even tried having a girlfriend to try and turn myself straight however after 2 years of doing this I realised it wasn't going to work.
Finally at the age of 18 I told my mother while we were on our way to shopping. The first thing that came out of her mouth was don't tell your father. This again made me pursue girls so I could hide it and again try to change myself. Now I look back I was ashamed and trying to change something I could not help.
After telling a few people word finally got back to him about it. Now I work in car sales and was dealing with some customers. While those customers were talking to my business manager I got a phone call. Which started with:
Dad: I've heard a rumour
Me: Was is that (Knowing full well what was coming).
Dad: Your a poofter. Don't bother coming home tonight you'll just get kicked out.

Ever since then I have not spoken to him. I love him with all my heart but he doesn't want a bar of it. This is mostly the reason for Young male suicide. Acceptance is what they are after.

Sorry for writing a whole essay about my life but sometimes it is good for people to see how life affects people when they find out they are gay.
My vote is going to YES let them marry. The history is there of this happening. It is just religion and the legal side. But why can't they legally be married? Like I said they don't need to have the ceremony in a church or anything.

Brought a tear to my eye to man. I've been a very prejudiced person, but that post opened my eyes. Thank you.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by lilmattie

IF you believe there is no God and we all evolved from microbial pond scum.. then same sex marriage isn't an issue. Anything goes; including all reason for morality, life purpose...

Wow. I am sorry but if people need to get their moral guidance from a book of fairy tales then they are a lost cause from the start. I have absolutely no belief in any existential being or god or whatever you want to call it, and my moral compass comes from myself alone via the influences of family and friends and life experience. Religion is in no way required for a thorough understanding of right and wrong.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by lilmattie

Yes, heterosexual marriages have problems and fail. I would see that as a failing of the 'person' not the institution of marriage. Can a man and man or a woman and a woman have children naturally - negative ghostrider!

+1 against.

Fair enough and well reasoned discussion.

One question though. If having children is pivotal to the concept of marriage, does marriage apply to those heterosexual couples that either choose to or cannot have children naturally? In those that cannot have children naturally, has god decided that they should not procreate and therefore they should not marry?

Just thoughts.

[lilmattie]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

great reading this thread . i still think marraige is for a man and a woman , religion for me has nothing to do with it . same as i think you can be gay and a christian , you dont have to be an athiest because your gay , everyone is a sinner , the bible states that . and we all fall short , i would just like to say , being gay is wrong in religion , so is stealing , porn , bad thoughts , being bitter. lying , drinking to get drunk , hatred .i'm guilty of more than one of those , i bet all are . all can be forgiven , thats what religion is all about , thats why its for all . anyways .
keeping religion out of it . i think marraige has its own place for a man and a woman . anything else or other form of it , has to be called something else .

Yes, but the Bible tells people to 'stop' sinning Being 'christian' isn't a license to do 'whatever' because all is forgiven.

On topic - agreed. If you have to call it something - then marriage isn't it. Marriage doesn't cover same sex relationships IMO.