Australian fuel efficiency standards aimed at cutting petrol bills, 'catching up' with US

[kypez]

Originally Posted by fatgas

I can add fuel to this fire, anecdotal though it is.

I have a handful of independent panel shops as clients and they all either handball the EV's when they come through the system or write them off. They don't want the liability of a possible smoke show after repair and the margins are even thinner when the repair doesn't involve the zappy zappy stuff (as others mentioned due to the significant use of aluminium, welded or bonded).

But most EVs don't use much aluminium. Model S and X did but Model 3/Y are all steel. As are most of the other products on the market.

The certified repairer where I've taken my cars to have plenty of EVs coming through for repair and they just repair them without fuss. They also are the certified repairers for Lamborghini and Porsche. Great workmanship and their rates are very reasonable when asking them to do a cashie for minor repairs outside of insurance.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by whynot

Lots of media reporting this morning that Apple is to shut down its division that is working on its electric vehicle. Apparently moving some of the team over to working on AI. And this is after it gave up on its full self driving project a few years back.



While sinking a few billion into a black hole EV project and then walking away with nothing might seem wasteful, but this is the way capitalism works. The successful survive and the weak perish.





It also says a lot about managerial confidence in being able to make a buck out of EV. Ditto, investor's confidence in EV when Apple's stock rose 0.7% immediately after the announcement.

Also shows how much of a Headstart Tesla has and how far ahead they continue to be. They build EVs with bigger margins than ICE manufacturers. They are priced very competitively against the rest of the market as well.

I always laughed when people rubbished them (on this forum) saying, "just wait till the other more established brands turn up and Tesla will be cactus". Yeah, it's not as easy as many thought to build an EV profitably.

[fatgas]

Originally Posted by kypez

But most EVs don't use much aluminium. Model S and X did but Model 3/Y are all steel. As are most of the other products on the market.

The certified repairer where I've taken my cars to have plenty of EVs coming through for repair and they just repair them without fuss. They also are the certified repairers for Lamborghini and Porsche. Great workmanship and their rates are very reasonable when asking them to do a cashie for minor repairs outside of insurance.

That's another part of the problem, the smaller operators are being quoted insane amounts to become certified repairers for Tesla and the other EV's.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by fatgas

That's another part of the problem, the smaller operators are being quoted insane amounts to become certified repairers for Tesla and the other EV's.

Yes, very true that could be happening.

[Citroënbender]

Given Australia’s love affair with statutory write-offs due to such calamities as a bent A-pillar, it’s surprising people are worrying much about repairability.

[fatgas]

No word of a lie, there was a Kia of some variety in one of the shops and the car was declared stat write off because there was a deep scratch on the drivers A-pillar.

Yep, a scratch. The insurance assessor couldn't even determine if it was caused by the accident or was pre-existing.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by kypez

But most EVs don't use much aluminium. Model S and X did but Model 3/Y are all steel. As are most of the other products on the market.

The certified repairer where I've taken my cars to have plenty of EVs coming through for repair and they just repair them without fuss. They also are the certified repairers for Lamborghini and Porsche. Great workmanship and their rates are very reasonable when asking them to do a cashie for minor repairs outside of insurance.

Can't edit it: should read that model 3/Y are almost all steel. Still a little aluminium used which I learnt today!

Thanks @ljf12 !

[whynot]

Originally Posted by kypez

Also shows how much of a head start Tesla has and how far ahead they continue to be.

Yup, I agree. Tesla went through a world of hurt to get their EV process working at its present efficiency. Others thought it would be relatively easy to copy (aka the second mover's advantage). Not so.

Getting back to the ALP's changes to Australian fuel efficiency standards ... I think that there is a fine line between gently nudging the market / supply chain in certain directions and exceeding the capability of either to absorb the change. A bit like driving on snow and ice, gentle little nudges can achieve far more progress than excessive inputs. To me, this change reeks of an unnecessary regulation, too much too soon.

Sure, it is a political exercise and since the ALP - with support of the Greens - have the numbers in parliament, they can make whatever changes they like. That is the way it works in our democracy. But the ALP shouldn't complain or whinge if the electorate turns and bites back, hard.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by whynot

Sure, it is a political exercise and since the ALP - with support of the Greens - have the numbers in parliament, they can make whatever changes they like. That is the way it works in our democracy. But the ALP shouldn't complain or whinge if the electorate turns and bites back, hard.

I hope parties do the right thing without worrying about the next election only. These standards are long overdue and whatever date that was set was going to be a shock to the system for those not wanting to change.

[fatgas]

Originally Posted by kypez

I hope parties do the right thing without worrying about the next election only. These standards are long overdue and whatever date that was set was going to be a shock to the system for those not wanting to change.

Shirley Ewe Geste?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

https://electrek.co/2024/02/26/ford-...kEfEAmKq_7Bveo

Here you go. As I mentioned, they had a stop sale that has now been lifted and they had a record Feb pushed by an 81% increase in EV sales and big increase in hybrid sales

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/04/ford...brids-evs.html

[Franco Cozzo]

The war on American utes and SUVs is beginning:

City of Yarra councilors are trying to prevent them in their LGA:

Does this look okay to you? It doesn’t to me.

Folks in Paris have just voted to triple parking fees for large SUVs to try to reduce their impact on city streets and people.

Here in Aus, we’re seeing RAMs and “Defenders” on the rise.

These are luxury vehicles, costing upwards of $100k, and they’re significantly more dangerous than smaller vehicles.

When they hit a kid (which they are more likely to do with huge blind spots), they are eight times more likely to kill them. ��

In the US, there has been a spate of parents killing kids in their own driveways.

They also have significantly higher greenhouse gas emissions than other vehicles, and do more damage to our streets.

All round, they’re something we need to see less of on our streets, not more.

That’s why I’m following Paris’s lead, and have put up a notice of motion asking staff to look into doing the same at the @cityofyarra.

This isn’t a silver bullet, but the state and federal governments are not doing enough. And when they fail, local governments step into the breach. And with increasing numbers of pedestrian deaths in Victoria, something needs to be done.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C4JOsjiPaI0/?img_index=7

My TAFE is in their council region and they're the biggest street parking Nazis going around, absolutely ruthless, so I'm curious about what they do to people with Thailand Specials, SUVs and American utes.

Every 2/4 hours we leave class to go swap car parks with each other then go back in, absolutely ridiculous

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by The cited article preceding

In the US, there has been a spate of parents killing kids in their own driveways.

Quite irrelevant to the core “goal” originally implied. Is this another example of clueless reactionaries attempting policy-on-the-fly?

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The war on American utes and SUVs is beginning:

City of Yarra councilors are trying to prevent them in their LGA:



https://www.instagram.com/p/C4JOsjiPaI0/?img_index=7

My TAFE is in their council region and they're the biggest street parking Nazis going around, absolutely ruthless, so I'm curious about what they do to people with Thailand Specials, SUVs and American utes.

Every 2/4 hours we leave class to go swap car parks with each other then go back in, absolutely ridiculous

Great, I really want to hear the latest unrealistic demands from inner city leftists void of real world experience about as much as I want an ingrown hair on my gooch.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Quite irrelevant to the core “goal” originally implied. Is this another example of clueless reactionaries attempting policy-on-the-fly?

Standard operating procedure for these people - you know how it is.

There's a massive undercurrent of salty pricks about American utes around inner Melbourne, and its just because everyone is upset about others having the sort of coin to throw around on epic purchases like that, so they want them banned.

They're using the 'safety' aspect, with the green aspect on the tail end of the argument, but its not the agenda, its just the padding around the shit sandwich covered in sprinkles they want you to eat.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Melbourne councils specifically target large SUVs/Thailand Specials/American utes in disincentive programs because it will generally only effect people outside of their rate payers.

They have nothing to lose discriminating against people who live outside their LGAs who may own these vehicles, and only something to gain in the form of popularity with their electorate, if you live within 5KM radius of Melbourne CBD you won't usually own a Ranger, or a RAM.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Standard operating procedure for these people - you know how it is.

There's a massive undercurrent of salty pricks about American utes around inner Melbourne, and its just because everyone is upset about others having the sort of coin to throw around on epic purchases like that, so they want them banned.

They're using the 'safety' aspect, with the green aspect on the tail end of the argument.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Melbourne councils specifically target large SUVs/Thailand Specials/American utes in disincentive programs because it will generally only effect people outside of their rate payers.

They have nothing to lose discriminating against people who live outside their LGAs who may own these vehicles, and only something to gain in the form of popularity with their electorate, if you live within 5KM radius of Melbourne CBD you won't usually own a Ranger, or a RAM.

If anyone doubts what Franco says, just go on Reddit r/Melbourne or r/Australia.

[kypez]

Seems FCAI have been pushing falsehoods about EV prices from these policies and Tesla has resigned from the FCAI. Polestar expected to follow.

No more reporting to VFACTs either anymore.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by whynot

Sure, it is a political exercise and since the ALP - with support of the Greens - have the numbers in parliament, they can make whatever changes they like. That is the way it works in our democracy. But the ALP shouldn't complain or whinge if the electorate turns and bites back, hard.

We also need to remember that certain brands have been lobbying the Aus Gov for a number of years now wanting these fuel changes.
It'll bite ALP due to certain media outlets only supporting one side, of doing nothing.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Standard operating procedure for these people - you know how it is.

There's a massive undercurrent of salty pricks about American utes around inner Melbourne, and its just because everyone is upset about others having the sort of coin to throw around on epic purchases like that, so they want them banned.

They're using the 'safety' aspect, with the green aspect on the tail end of the argument, but its not the agenda, its just the padding around the shit sandwich covered in sprinkles they want you to eat.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Melbourne councils specifically target large SUVs/Thailand Specials/American utes in disincentive programs because it will generally only effect people outside of their rate payers.

They have nothing to lose discriminating against people who live outside their LGAs who may own these vehicles, and only something to gain in the form of popularity with their electorate, if you live within 5KM radius of Melbourne CBD you won't usually own a Ranger, or a RAM.

Albanese denies Thai's PM raised our vehicle emission regulations at the recent ASEAN meeting, but the Thai PM said it was raised. It wouldn't surprise me Albo lied, his track record is lying. Another lie from Albo is vehicle manufacturers specifically make cars for Australian and Russian markets. Phttt. As if.

With the exception of the inner city Greens and some green Labor supporters, plus the TEALS, most Australian's will wake up to the agenda the ALP is pursuing. Ensuring Albo is a one term government will put the brakes on this ridiculous pursuit and give industry and consumers time to adjust to new emission standards.

In the meanwhile government could mandate minimum fuel standards similar to that of Europe, increase ethanol in fuels and mandate annual vehicle inspections to get the dodgy piles of junk off the road. WA does not have annual RWC's.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ds-2024-03-06/

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Another lie from Albo is vehicle manufacturers specifically make cars for Australian and Russian markets. Phttt. As if.

Ranger in the US is a Petrol affair. In a lot of Asian countries, Everest is offered with petrol. Heck, Amarok comes with the Ford petrol donk as an option in the top spec. We don't get that with Ranger. It's absolutely true that there are several dirty diesels that we get that countries with emission standards don't.

Even with the diesels, many markets require AdBlue that we have had an exemption for other than passenger cars like Everest. Ranger has been open to not use AdBlue but is required in other markets.

Seriously, it's not rocket science to do a little research into the subject.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by kypez

Ranger in the US is a Petrol affair. In a lot of Asian countries, Everest is offered with petrol. Heck, Amarok comes with the Ford petrol donk as an option in the top spec. We don't get that with Ranger. It's absolutely true that there are several dirty diesels that we get that countries with emission standards don't.

Even with the diesels, many markets require AdBlue that we have had an exemption for other than passenger cars like Everest. Ranger has been open to not use AdBlue but is required in other markets.

Seriously, it's not rocket science to do a little research into the subject.

Again, car manufacturers aren't making specific models for Australia and Russia, it's simply a case that they can delete items (like adblue, or the petrol DI turbo engine in the Ranger/Everest) and accommodate the engine calibration accordingly. Pretending the vehicles come down different production lines is a lie.


It would be of little pricing consequence to ad adblue and have a DI Petrol turbo engine to the Ranger/Everest line up. Indeed the petrol turbo would probably be a cheaper option than the V6 diesel. Why Ford don't offer the petrol turbo in Ranger/Everest is disappointing.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Again, car manufacturers aren't making specific models for Australia and Russia, it's simply a case that they can delete items (like adblue, or the petrol DI turbo engine in the Ranger/Everest) and accommodate the engine calibration accordingly. Pretending the vehicles come down different production lines is a lie.





It would be of little pricing consequence to ad adblue and have a DI Petrol turbo engine to the Ranger/Everest line up. Indeed the petrol turbo would probably be a cheaper option than the V6 diesel. Why Ford don't offer the petrol turbo in Ranger/Everest is disappointing.

I don't think anyone suggested they came down different lines. It's that the specification is more relaxed for Australia making them more polluting.

You're right that these are small cost items to add but that's the point, that they don't add these items for Australia to save money because of relaxed standards.

I called out only Ford here but a lot of others do the same. Quicker we get proper standards the quicker we'll see manufacturers produce cleaner models for our market.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's a massive undercurrent of salty pricks about American utes around inner Melbourne, and its just because everyone is upset about others having the sort of coin to throw around on epic purchases like that, so they want them banned.

They're using the 'safety' aspect, with the green aspect on the tail end of the argument, but its not the agenda, its just the padding around the shit sandwich covered in sprinkles they want you to eat.

Not that it is going to happen anytime soon, but I wonder how many environmentalists will choke on their chickweed spanakopita, soursob, milk thistle salad when the Cybertruck comes to a street near them. They cannot complain about its environmental creds, being battery powered and all that stuff. And because so much of it is recyclable (stainless steel exoskeleton, recyclable batteries, etc), it is all green goodness.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by whynot

Not that it is going to happen anytime soon, but I wonder how many environmentalists will choke on their chickweed spanakopita, soursob, milk thistle salad when the Cybertruck comes to a street near them. They cannot complain about its environmental creds, being battery powered and all that stuff. And because so much of it is recyclable (stainless steel exoskeleton, recyclable batteries, etc), it is all green goodness.

They're already deflating tyres of Tesla Model X's saying they are still SUVs that are evil. Cybertruck will definitely be a target for them

[whynot]

Originally Posted by whynot

I think that there is a fine line between gently nudging the market / supply chain in certain directions and exceeding the capability of either to absorb the change. A bit like driving on snow and ice, gentle little nudges can achieve far more progress than excessive inputs. To me, this change reeks of an unnecessary regulation, too much too soon.

I dug out a paper from 1985 about the introduction of unleaded petrol into Australia. One could argue that this was the most significant change in emission standards.

The initial consultation with industry started in July 1979. The final report was delivered in February 1981. ADR37 (for the move to unleaded fuel for new vehicles) was enforced from January 1986. So, there was effectively five years lead time from regulation (about seven years including consultation). Remember, this was under the time that the Federal Government was Liberal National Coalition. But the two states that it impacted the most (due to lead pollution and smog) had ALP in NSW and Liberal in Victoria.

The introduction of unleaded petrol is an example of good consultation across the political spectrum, federal and state, and industry-government.

There was noting stopping the current Federal Government from starting the consultation process just after they were elected in May 2022, and giving time for industry (and consumers) to adjust their forward purchases.

But, no, the ALP have decided to crash through with this.

Undoubtedly, the ALP policy wonks have had a look at this proposal from the plus/minus ledger of voting, and concluded that it best helps their cause. Probably loose votes on the right and pick up more from the left. That there is an anti-SUV wink is included in the mix helps their cause on the left.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by kypez

They're already deflating tyres of Tesla Model X's saying they are still SUVs that are evil. Cybertruck will definitely be a target for them

That is just so silly and so sad. Tesla Model X are a great car and a great source of inspiration of the future of motoring.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Again, car manufacturers aren't making specific models for Australia and Russia

yes. they are.

example. Ranger. In a RHD Euro 5 version, there are only 3 markets that car is sold in. South Africa sources from it's own plant. Thailand and Australia source from AAT/FTM. these are 2 different cars, so yes, 100% Ford makes specific cars only for the Aus market - plus needing to certify those cars for the stupid ADR approval

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by whynot

There was noting stopping the current Federal Government from starting the consultation process just after they were elected in May 2022, and giving time for industry (and consumers) to adjust their forward purchases.

it just seems a really, really strange way of 'improving' the fleet. I just can't understand why we don't move to Euro6 which would immediately bring the latest UK models here

[smoo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it just seems a really, really strange way of 'improving' the fleet. I just can't understand why we don't move to Euro6 which would immediately bring the latest UK models here

Why can’t they bring them here regardless?

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Romulus

In the meanwhile government could mandate minimum fuel standards similar to that of Europe, increase ethanol in fuels and mandate annual vehicle inspections to get the dodgy piles of junk off the road. WA does not have annual RWC's.

Let’s hope it stays that way.
The alternative is a huge money spinning operation with layers of bureaucracy paid by the end user and those who can least afford it.
The insignificant amount of crashes due to mechanic defects does not warrant annual or bi annual inspections.