Bloody Councils and their fines - Page 5

NickyN · 02-05-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

I think you have misunderstood it mate. Council have told me the property is mine. I'd say it's more a matter that they are too proud and pig headed to admit they were wrong and withdraw it properly. To them, this must be how they try and save face. Hence i will need to threaten them with legal action, as it now means i have an official caution against my name.

I agree with you there. As long as possible they will stand by their initial citation even if they are in the wrong. Council can't fine you because you have proven your point and the citation was wrong to start with, so making it a caution is their way of not letting it go. How childish of them, making it into a power struggle.

FgNewbie · 02-05-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickyN

Of course! It's something that council neglected so it should be taken care of.

Are you saying its council's responsibility to paint a property line for every property owner that doesn't erect a fence or some other means of marking their property line ?

Rodp · 02-05-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattSAU2XR8

On the other hand, the burden of proof really should rest with the complainant.

Imagine if a cop just looked at you driving past doing your own thing and said 'I think that guy is speeding and his car doesn't look to good from here, possibly unroadworthy, and he might not be registered and what the hell he's probably drunk, and for all I know he could have some stolen goods in the boot and his catalytic convertor has been gutted, so I'll just post him a bunch of tickets and hope that a few of them stick'.

It probably wasn't such a big deal that the council whacked a ticket on this particular car, only that they were too arrogant to properly consider Landau Stable's perfectly reasonable objection to the fine.

Also, the fact that the car is NEAR a road does not mean it has to be facing the same was as traffic. Consider a car parked in a driveway near to the front of a property - it's at 90 degrees to both traffic directions!

From the photo, the car appears to be sitting on a paved road next to a grass verge. If you were to show 100 people that photo, I'd be shocked if a single person came back and said that the vehicle is parked on private property.

Agreed that the burden of proof should rest with the complainant, my point is that, to me, there's enough proof that the car is illegally parked. I'd then clearly mark my boundary to avoid this problem in the future. Bear in mind, this is a parking fine. Being sent fines in the mail for your example above isn't a valid comparison.

However, recent events would have me angered. Proof provided that the car is not illegally parked should not receive a 'caution', it should be completely squashed. That would definitely draw my ire.

sudszy · 02-05-2011, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickyN

Chest beating and bravado? That's not what it sounds like to me. Imo, Landau stood up for himself and questioned council about the fine. He has every right to do so. Seems not many would do but he did which I'm pretty sure surprised whoever he contacted. So instead of just dropping the fine now they are going to issue a citation which is still a mark against his name in good standing. What would you do? Would you have let it slide and just pay the fine and go on your business? Or, knowing what he knew about his extended boundary would you not have made your point?

Sorry, but I don't believe it's your place to make judgment and decide he wasted his time and the time of everyone else involved. Just because they're council doesn't give them the right to do whatever they please, they are still accountable for their actions. You'd take action on something if it meant enough to you.

You have clearly misunderstood the point I was making. Not at any stage did I say Landau should accept council's fine and not challenge it etc.
In regards to wasting time:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickyN

Sorry, but I don't believe it's your place to make judgment and decide he wasted his time and the time of everyone else involved. .

Perhaps if you had quoted me fully and/or had read it properly the time wasting comment I believe is justified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

Basically, you could have prevented yourself wasting time, the officer involved and all the other people in council if you had have just done the community minded thing in the first place and have parked it around the other way.

Another thing to consider, it could have just have easily been a police officer that could have ticketed Landau's car, looking out for the public, would you expect the police officer to be consulting the titles office just in case someone's property cases part of the roadway?

MattSAU2XR8 · 02-05-2011, 11:14 PM

Should have had a look at the pic earlier - pretty understandable that parking cops would have thought it was illegally parked. Still, once council found out that it wasn't that should have been the end of it. Sore losers.....

grandpa_spec_F6 · 02-05-2011, 11:28 PM

Reading between the lines here, it would seem that Sydney is cramped and unfriendly city, run by a pack of litigious "anchors" who only want to line their pockets...

Move up to Brisbane, at least we have a little more parking

93EB_SXR6 · 03-05-2011, 02:27 AM

There is a lot of **** going on here.

nstg8a · 03-05-2011, 07:28 PM

im interested to see if there is some some vague law about parking in cases like this.

while its easy to say 'its private property, il park however i feel" its quite conceivable that is some vaguely written council bylaw that in cases like this then its considered 'public access', so normal road rules prevail.

what would happen if you had a few beers after work on a friday, then go 'shoot, i left the customers car parked in my private park out the front' you jump in it, just as constable rbt walks past seeing you sitting your stubbie on the wheely bin before you jump in the car to reverse it into the shed...

now if the car never left private property, and he breathalyses you and you fail... do you get done? id put money on yes.

Jim Goose · 03-05-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

im interested to see if there is some some vague law about parking in cases like this.

while its easy to say 'its private property, il park however i feel" its quite conceivable that is some vaguely written council bylaw that in cases like this then its considered 'public access', so normal road rules prevail.

what would happen if you had a few beers after work on a friday, then go 'shoot, i left the customers car parked in my private park out the front' you jump in it, just as constable rbt walks past seeing you sitting your stubbie on the wheely bin before you jump in the car to reverse it into the shed...

now if the car never left private property, and he breathalyses you and you fail... do you get done? id put money on yes.

The usual definations given to a road by council is the same as what they use in the traffic act. A council by law cant make a law more restrictive then a state gov. Having bitumen right up until his doorstep like that forms part of the road yes... as its a road "related" area.

However yes it is his property... so the arguement can go either way.

It would be better to have that bit of bitumen either ripped up or a white line added along his boundary or bollards, etc.... in order to avoid future dramas

FgNewbie · 03-05-2011, 09:32 PM

Could a knowledgeable person please tell me the fundamental difference between Inclosed Lands Protection Act and Enclosed Lands Protection Act.

At this point I'm guessing it is only a difference in spelling between states.

Dave3911 · 03-05-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

im interested to see if there is some some vague law about parking in cases like this.

while its easy to say 'its private property, il park however i feel" its quite conceivable that is some vaguely written council bylaw that in cases like this then its considered 'public access', so normal road rules prevail.

what would happen if you had a few beers after work on a friday, then go 'shoot, i left the customers car parked in my private park out the front' you jump in it, just as constable rbt walks past seeing you sitting your stubbie on the wheely bin before you jump in the car to reverse it into the shed...

now if the car never left private property, and he breathalyses you and you fail... do you get done? id put money on yes.

Which was the point originally argued a few pages back. I think if the council wanted to force this issue they could still proceed with the infringement, for the reasons you've outlined.

I'm not sure about other states, but your comparison with drink driving doesn't float in Victoria, as here it doesn't matter where you are driving, even your own property, you can't be over the limit.

nstg8a · 03-05-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3911

I'm not sure about other states, but your comparison with drink driving doesn't float in Victoria, as here it doesn't matter where you are driving, even your own property, you can't be over the limit.

thats interesting, i did not know that

Jim Goose · 03-05-2011, 10:24 PM

oh here we go again.. the old fable about being in charge of car while drunk on your own land...

Dave3911 · 03-05-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

oh here we go again.. the old fable about being in charge of car while drunk on your own land...

It's not a fable at all.

Matty4 · 04-05-2011, 10:04 AM

I know this is getting way off topic, but what reasonable grounds would a police officer have to enter private property to test a drivers BAC?

craigrobinson · 04-05-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

Reading between the lines here, it would seem that Sydney is cramped and unfriendly city, run by a pack of litigious "anchors" who only want to line their pockets...

Move up to Brisbane, at least we have a little more parking

Um.... no dont move to Brisbane... um..... becauuuusssseee.... um it rains???? hahahahahahaha we dont want to end up crowded and cramped like sydney. hahahahahaha

I think. um..... Adelaide???? hehehehehe

craigrobinson · 04-05-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty4

I know this is getting way off topic, but what reasonable grounds would a police officer have to enter private property to test a drivers BAC?

In NSW, a police officer has the right to enter any dwelling or property be it private or government (including Defence Force Land changed under the DFDA in 1997) if they suspect on reasonable grounds that an offence has been commited. the NSW Crimes Act was changed in late 2002 to modify the term ' on reasonable grounds' to accomodate the ever present threat to the public after major world events.

I can provide a clause and sub clause if you need. i dont want anyone to think that i dont know what im talking about..... hahahahahaha

SEZ213 · 04-05-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FgNewbie

Could a knowledgeable person please tell me the fundamental difference between Inclosed Lands Protection Act and Enclosed Lands Protection Act.

At this point I'm guessing it is only a difference in spelling between states.

Doesn't appear to be one...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inclosed

Jim Goose · 04-05-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigrobinson

In NSW, a police officer has the right to enter any dwelling or property be it private or government (including Defence Force Land changed under the DFDA in 1997) if they suspect on reasonable grounds that an offence has been commited. the NSW Crimes Act was changed in late 2002 to modify the term ' on reasonable grounds' to accomodate the ever present threat to the public after major world events.

I can provide a clause and sub clause if you need. i dont want anyone to think that i dont know what im talking about..... hahahahahaha

Yes if you committed the offence whilst driving on a public road....

aussie muscle · 04-05-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Seems to me this could have been avoided if the roadway was clearly marked as private property. To me it's ridiculous to assume that a parking officer should have to go into records to check boundaries of properties prior to issuing an infringement notice for a car that would otherwise be illegally parked.

Seems silly to give a ticket for being the wrong way around. it's not like he was blocking traffic or parked in a way that reduced parking for other people. like the guy i photographed parked across two disabled spaces.

Jim Goose · 04-05-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Seems silly to give a ticket for being the wrong way around. it's not like he was blocking traffic or parked in a way that reduced parking for other people. like the guy i photographed parked across two disabled spaces.

It is illegal to park the wrong way, facing the flow of traffic...

craigrobinson · 04-05-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yes if you committed the offence whilst driving on a public road....

No mate, the NSW Police have the power to enter any dwelling private or otherwise if they have reasonable cause to beleive an offence has been, is likely to, or is being commited full stop.

Jim Goose · 04-05-2011, 02:02 PM

The question was in relation to drink driving....

You cant be breath tested for driving on your own back yard.
They can enter your premises yes, to breath test you AFTER the fact it has occured, wether you were chased, or a witness came forward etc....

craigrobinson · 04-05-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The question was in relation to drink driving....

You cant be breath tested for driving on your own back yard.
They can enter your premises yes, to breath test you AFTER the fact it has occured, wether you were chased, or a witness came forward etc....

Sorry mate, i misunderstood your response. Although, when you have had a few drinks with your mates, your likely to start carrying on, in your car in your yard or proerty ( i know i have pushed a few cows over) (( as in the animal type... lol) then the bloody neighbours complain then the police knock on your door. lol. its like a big bad cycle........ damn it!!!!!

um, anyone else experienced this????? um... err..... not me officer... it was him.... hahahahahaha