Copenhagen summit dec '09, scam. - Page 5

cob115 · 24-11-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

So when you hear the Government spokes "person" saying "the opposition is in dissarray because there are 17 "rebels" just remember that they are opposing the ETS, and remember that those "rebels" are standing up for your freedoms as opposed to following the party line.

They are representing you as opoosed to being party of the conspiracy to equalise wealth throughout the world.

Like Castellan and GK have said a one world government will definitely come but that does not mean we should not fight it and try to defer it at every turn.

This is the best thread ever on AFF.

VERY VERY WELL SAID MR KOWASKI : )

XRQTR · 24-11-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillbilly F Truck

A real interesting link here fellas. The government has kept this one quiet!

http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/r...nda21_00.shtml

Agenda 21

PMSL the link no longer exists hahaha, they must have realised people had found it and moved it LOL

edit: the "rebels" are saying no because of the deals done with the biggest poluters, that being coal burning power companies, they have offered Au$6.5B in compensation to the biggest polluters in our country.

But more importantly as raised by the deputy leader of the the greens just earlier some of the power companies are now going to re commision some old power stations, so they'll actually be burning more coal. Yes this is actually in the amendments that some older de commisioned plants will be re opening as a result of the compensation deal.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sorry I shouldn't laugh

yes yes I know it's not funny

oh come on even you die hard climate change fanatics have to see the funny side in that

:

: well the hypocracy anyway

**Falcon Coupe** · 24-11-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Au$6.5B in compensation to the biggest polluters in our country.

But more importantly as raised by the deputy leader of the the greens just earlier some of the power companies are now going to re commision some old power stations, so they'll actually be burning more coal. Yes this is actually in the amendments that some older de commisioned plants will be re opening as a result of the compensation deal.

Vic had blackouts last year during the heatwave, we now have a larger population yet they refuse to build any more power stations.

:

TXU energy stated the 6.5 billion falls short, under the current agreement they claim they will become insolvent withing days of the ETS being signed. (10 billion is required)
Even if they receive 10 billion how does that help the environment ? money changes hands but we still need the power....

The CEO also claimed they will now stop millions of investment they had planned for Vic.

We are doomed if these loonies get their way.

**cs123** · 24-11-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent8

N
Here's how they do it...

We all know they receive loans from the World Bank and many times these loans are written off because they can't afford to pay it back but there's a catch...

The world bank says, "we'll give you all the money you need and if you can't pay it back, no problem, just handover control of your water and other natural resources and all is forgiven!"

I think you're describing the plot from Quantum of Solace.

rodderz · 24-11-2009, 08:38 PM

No matter what promises are made during an election they all still end up crooks

I read an article the other week about this global warming thing they want to sign at Copenhagen (stuffed if I can find it now), basically what it implied was that a united nation (ie global government) will end up getting huge power, as these changes will hurt and shut a lot of middle class businesses, the huge ones will benefit, while 3rd world countries will compensate for their lack of commitment to the deal by handing over a % of their resources- huge businesses benefit again. A lot of stakeholders are either part of government or these said huge businesses.

The points that xrqtr and falcon coupe put up are dead on- isn't the whole point of this thing to reduce pollution and save the global warming? Yet they are getting a deal to get compensated which ends up using more emissions that now. Bloody scammers!

XRQTR · 24-11-2009, 11:17 PM

All Copenhagen is about is setting targets for reduction, after the compo admissions to the big polluters I can't see how it will work, unless they make an environment fund which is what the taxes are for. So essentially the more you want to pollute the more you need to contribute to the fund, easiest way to raise these funds is to slug Joe Average and John Smith sole trader or P/L.

I already mentioned that even though they are agreeing and signing to certain targets the environment minister of Denmark admitted that they have no real recourse should any of the signing countries fail to meet targets or deadlines.

All this is is simply Kyoto Pt2, soon they'll have Stallone doing the run up the stairs or using the side of beef as a punching bag, because I can see many many more parts to this sad, sorry saga.

Romulus · 25-11-2009, 10:29 AM

So, let me get this right, the government and opposition have agreed on billions of dollars of subsidies to heavy polluters, yet every house hold is expected to pick up and $1100 per year tab through increase in power,groceries etc....

Australia, your government has sold your ar.se down the river in favour of supporting their big business mates.

SB076 · 25-11-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

No matter what promises are made during an election they all still end up crooks

I read an article the other week about this global warming thing they want to sign at Copenhagen (stuffed if I can find it now), basically what it implied was that a united nation (ie global government) will end up getting huge power, as these changes will hurt and shut a lot of middle class businesses, the huge ones will benefit, while 3rd world countries will compensate for their lack of commitment to the deal by handing over a % of their resources- huge businesses benefit again. A lot of stakeholders are either part of government or these said huge businesses.

The points that xrqtr and falcon coupe put up are dead on- isn't the whole point of this thing to reduce pollution and save the global warming? Yet they are getting a deal to get compensated which ends up using more emissions that now. Bloody scammers!

There was an interesting show on channel 2 the other day (cant recall its name) however it was basically suggesting that in the past there was seperation between the government and big business however these days there is a street in the United States (K street) where a lot of the lobbyists are. Each year they contribute 6.5 Billion dollars to the different parties, senators etc. The program was suggesting that big business (or in particular the lobbyists) actually have a lot of influence over the government decisions. Obama received something like $800 million to run for president (this money was used for advertising and promotion etc) However he received a lot of this money from the financial institutions he later bailed out during the GFC.

Duirng the GFC there was a lot of talk about how greed bought about GFC and that excutives renumeration packages were to blame as they took more and more risks to increase their renumeration through bonuses etc. At the time there was a lot of talk about limiting bonuses and salary as a lot of people didnt think it was right that a lot of people that help bring about the GFC received millions in bonuses. A lot of governments (including ours, UK's and the USA) said measures would be put in place to limit execs bonuses etc. However now GFC is no longer front page news everyone has gone quiet on limiting pay/bonuses. The program was suggesting this has to do with the governments from around the world receive money from a lot of these organisations.

Keepleft · 25-11-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

So, let me get this right, the government and opposition have agreed on billions of dollars of subsidies to heavy polluters, yet every house hold is expected to pick up and $1100 per year tab through increase in power,groceries etc....

Australia, your government has sold your ar.se down the river in favour of supporting their big business mates.

Just about, this is from Dr Dennis Jensen:-

Quote:

You may have heard that Wilson Tuckey and I have called for a spill. Not planned, this has been thrust upon us. We need to stop the ETS, the Partyroom had a clear position against it (by a majority of about 8), yet Malcolm decided that the sentiment was For the ETS! The partyroom MUST be listened to.

See this link;-
http://insidethemindoftim.wordpress....st-be-deposed/

Romulus · 25-11-2009, 12:02 PM

I guess Krudd has just found a means to claw back his $900 stimulus payment. Actually, the whole ETS and CPRS will succesfully claw back the entire stimulus package, and then some.
Well done Mr Rudd.

XRQTR · 25-11-2009, 01:06 PM

I really do hope that more people on here at least are taking notice of this thread and coming to the realisation that "Carbon Reduction" is a near impossibility without many many losers.

Please lobby your local member to speak out against signing any agreements until a viable solution is found for everyone, not just for the big end of town.

No one can now say it's just some silly Lord from Pomgolia that's making these claims but that our own polies are slowly coming to the realisation that things don't quite smell right. Once we have local polies willing to stand up and speak out then I think you all need to listen, unless you're all nothing more than a bunch of goldfish who forget everything 5 seconds after you're told.

You wanted eveidence, well there it is.

Right there, look, listen, think for yourselves.

Stop believing the hype and lets work out a real solution not another band aid.

I've said it so many times why don't they start a massive global tree planting campaign if they are so good for taking up CO2 and acting as a Carbon sink.

Why?? Because they don't make enough money from it all.

XRQTR · 25-11-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

I guess Krudd has just found a means to claw back his $900 stimulus payment. Actually, the whole ETS and CPRS will succesfully claw back the entire stimulus package, and then some.
Well done Mr Rudd.

With a massive profit to boot

Hillbilly F Truck · 25-11-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

PMSL the link no longer exists hahaha, they must have realised people had found it and moved it LOL

edit: the "rebels" are saying no because of the deals done with the biggest poluters, that being coal burning power companies, they have offered Au$6.5B in compensation to the biggest polluters in our country.

But more importantly as raised by the deputy leader of the the greens just earlier some of the power companies are now going to re commision some old power stations, so they'll actually be burning more coal. Yes this is actually in the amendments that some older de commisioned plants will be re opening as a result of the compensation deal.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sorry I shouldn't laugh

yes yes I know it's not funny

oh come on even you die hard climate change fanatics have to see the funny side in that

:

: well the hypocracy anyway

Here it is - http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/r...nda21_01.shtml

MONSOON · 25-11-2009, 04:01 PM

All the while there are green protesters turning up protesting that not enough is being done, I wanna know where are all the Anti Copenhagen treaty protesters are, Or is there none?

XRQTR · 25-11-2009, 05:29 PM

Well they (Liberals) voted for the ETS, I can't believe how towing the party line is so important to some of them.

Obviously more of them have stakes in this than what we might think.

Here's hoping that the Libs put someone else in the hot seat by the time they come back next year, maybe they might have the balls to ask the right questions.

Hmmmm the Cayman Islands look pretty good

:

Romulus · 26-11-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Well they (Liberals) voted for the ETS, I can't believe how towing the party line is so important to some of them.

Obviously more of them have stakes in this than what we might think.

Here's hoping that the Libs put someone else in the hot seat by the time they come back next year, maybe they might have the balls to ask the right questions.

Hmmmm the Cayman Islands look pretty good

:

Well it looks like the Liberal Party is tearing itself apart over Turnball's decision to support the government's ETS and CPRS bills. Several key front benchers have resigned so they can "cross the floor" and vote against the bill. Turnball is being sounded out as a lunatic and crazed man by some of Liberal party members.

Should be an interesting 24hrs, with the bill needing to be passed by 345pm tomorrow. Let's hope the bill doesn't pass.

xtremerus · 26-11-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Well it looks like the Liberal Party is tearing itself apart over Turnball's decision to support the government's ETS and CPRS bills. Several key front benchers have resigned so they can "cross the floor" and vote against the bill. Turnball is being sounded out as a lunatic and crazed man by some of Liberal party members.

Should be an interesting 24hrs, with the bill needing to be passed by 345pm tomorrow. Let's hope the bill doesn't pass.

Good to see some Local Members with gumption, to stand by their convictions, and not just toe the 'Party' line on this issue, unlike the other Parties. Otherwise we might as well just have a Parliament of just the major party leaders only, and no local representatives.

XRQTR · 26-11-2009, 11:46 PM

Ye I've been keeping an ear and eye out all day on that.

Trouble is some of them are only voting against it in the case that things go south because of it for the country (which is pretty much a given) they won't be able to use it as ammunition in any upcoming elections.

I love how Joe is using Tony Abbot to oust Turnbull so that he can then come in a few months later and make it out as though he's defending his mates (Turnbulls) honor by then taking over the party. Joe will run it, it's only a matter of when.

Actually I might just email him, LOL he's a FB buddy of mine haha

:

Walt Kowalski · 27-11-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Ye I love how Joe is using Tony Abbot to oust Turnbull so that he can then come in a few months later and make it out as though he's defending his mates (Turnbulls) honor by then taking over the party. Joe will run it, it's only a matter of when.

Actually I might just email him, LOL he's a FB buddy of mine haha

:

If you do know him please tell him that if he aligns with Turnbull he is FINISHED

He will be lucky to win his seat next election

Turnbull needs to go for this act which in my opinion is the biggest threat to Australia's democracy in my long life time.

XRQTR · 27-11-2009, 11:45 AM

Just got an email from Cory, group email LOL, saying tat the ETS has been defeated, I thought they had till 3:45pm today?? I haven't heard anything on the radio anyway but hope it's true.

Thing is that he now wants support for the CPRS (Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme) I think if they fight this the right way they may just get it right, by mass plantings of carbon sinks on private property that may not be fully utilised with even some kind of compensation for the farmers. How many properties are currently close to being shut down due to economic and environmental reasons, instead of subsidising the polluters why not subsidise the people that can actually make a difference.

I think that a push needs to be made to benifit not only the general public but also to allow farmers the opportunity to take up this option of subsidised carbon sink planting on their properties.

Actually I will respond with this to the email.

FASTXR · 27-11-2009, 12:15 PM

XRQTR · 27-11-2009, 06:27 PM

Sorry LOL that's what happens when you miss a word or two LOL, I meant support to help defeat this bill also.

Keepleft · 27-11-2009, 06:36 PM

Rip Turnbull asunder.

FASTXR - Handy post!

Romulus · 28-11-2009, 09:20 PM

Tomorrow's Galaxy poll reveals some interesting information. 4/5 people say not enough detail has been released about the ETS. 3/5 people believe the ETS should be deferred.

XRQTR · 28-11-2009, 10:27 PM

Man I love poles, especially if they have a seat in front of them and a cute girl that keeps bringing you drinks.

oh different poll, um ye well, you know, those polls are ok I guess as well.

I love how one poll in one paper says 80% of Australians believe in the ETS and now we have another saying 80% want to know more so are essentially unsure.

I might go and poll some girls at MG to see what they think about it all, that will be my personal role in this whole debate I think.

rodderz · 28-11-2009, 10:31 PM

The polls are probably done by the same scientists who researched global warming lol

naddis01 · 28-11-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

I think that a push needs to be made to benifit not only the general public but also to allow farmers the opportunity to take up this option of subsidised carbon sink planting on their properties.

The only problem with doing this is that it will take away productive land from food production. Maybe not staright away but over time it will. Dont forget that there will be how many Billion people by 2050? The food to feed these people has to come from somewhere. By the way I am a farmer, so a subsidised carbon sink may be of benefit to me.

XRQTR · 29-11-2009, 07:44 AM

I hear what you're saying Naddis, but keep in mind that we have some properties that are 10's and even 100s of thousands of acres, with a portion of them quite often not fully utilised for either cropping or grazing.

Even though farmers generally try to utilise as much of their property as possible there will always be a good portion that is left pretty much unused.

This would of course be something that would benefit many central/inland properties who have vast open areas, it would offer shade to stock, which would allow stock to venture out further. It would also allow for more damms and billabongs in these types of areas as the shade would offer some protection against evaporation, I know it will still occur but the shade would certainly slow it down some.

Crop farmers would of course have a harder time as most of the property would be under whatever they harvest, but even if it were used as a border between paddocks, say a 20-40 metre wide stretch, every little bit counts. The offshoot of this is that if it were fenced to either side also then neighbouring properties could graze in these areas bringing further income to the land holder.

It's more than just the carbon offset payments if you really start to look at it deeper, there is money to made in so many different ways, but I'm glad to have a farmer respond to that rather than some inner suburban kn..person who would only see further degradation due to grazing. The high country grazing trails is a perfect example, they say that due to CC we are experiencing greater fire danger periods every year, but what they forget to mention is that since they stopped grazing these areas that ground fuel has grown exponentially.

Instead of the cattle or sheep grazing on the undergrowth to keep it down to a minimum as well as trampling on the fallen bark and leaves to ground them down into a compost, we now have undergrowth that is reaching the canopy. Even the CFA has been trained to blame CC and GW because of government policy, if they told the truth about why the danger grows further every year then the graziers would have an argument to get these areas re opened.

Naddis there are so many different ways in which our governments are screwing us, and to think that Brumby is a land holder, really makes you wonder what happens to them once they feel the power doesn't it.

boss-290 · 29-11-2009, 11:03 AM

I miss Bush and Howard

Mark^^ · 29-11-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Tomorrow's Galaxy poll reveals some interesting information. 4/5 people say not enough detail has been released about the ETS. 3/5 people believe the ETS should be deferred.

My response to this issue of not knowing whats in the ETS is does anyone rember the introduction and ramming through of the GST?