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13-07-2011, 07:01 PM | #121 | |||||
Size it up
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We can save the world, the polar bears, and the Great Barrier Reef. We can make the planet a better place for our children. We can lead the way and show those worthless other countries how superior we are. We can be part of the solution, not part of the problem. And we don't even have to get of our backsides and do anything, all we have to do is hand over some money. It's just so easy, do I have to wait till next year or can I start paying more tax now? |
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13-07-2011, 07:59 PM | #122 | |||
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10% is what the states get and changing that will likely be impossible. The only way it could happen is if we had LNP in every state and they believed each other. The concept I wish I could get an answer on, even though I accept that I know but a fraction of its impact, would be: Why can't we abolish all taxes in their entirety and implement a flat ~30% "GST". The more you spend, the more you pay. All of life's essentials are tax free which promotes their affordability by all wealth delineations. A reality is that the more you earn, the more you spend and the rule described above would account for you at that point. When we have a major disaster to pay for, the Govt of the time can announce that for X time, we are winding the tax up by 0.5% to cover it (much like the RBA control growth with the cash rate). I absolutely accept that it may be over-simplistic and not thought through - but I'm buggered if I can find anyone to tell me so! |
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13-07-2011, 08:13 PM | #123 | |||
GT
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that is a good concept and does have merit , i have often wondered why govts havent simplified taxes also . one finance guru of the 1990's from europe , cannot recall his name , studied the australian tax system . and suggested that we could erraticate all income taxes , and have a debit tax of 1% on everything we purchase , in other words every single transaction incurrs 1% tax . not just on purchasing , but on everything , deposits and gifts inc, he concluded that the tax would be fairer across the board for all , and would pretty much demolish the black market . revenue would be increased and all would be better off . wether this was true or not . ( i wouldnt have a clue) but i liked hearing the concept . |
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13-07-2011, 08:47 PM | #124 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Canberra
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While I accept the main objective (well the greenies one anyway) of this is to persuade industry to reduce pollution be that by investing in environmentally friendly technology or improving processes, I think the reality is that they will just increase prices to cover their carbon tax liability without actually reducing emissions.
I really don't have faith in industry taking it as it was intended even ignoring the fact it will have little effect in the context of the whole world. |
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13-07-2011, 09:11 PM | #125 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Going by most of the posts on this thread, I can only conclude that some people are against the carbon tax because they dont understand the theory behind it.
The main point to understand would be that the actual funds raised by a carbon tax isn't what brings a reduction in emissions or helps the environment. So raising existing taxes to fight climate change would have zero effect. Forget raising the GST or income taxes - how exactly would that make you pollute less? The tax sends a price signal - harnesses the market to achieve an outcome. I'm sure everyone has heard those catchphrases more than a few times over the last few weeks. To put it simply; Company A get slugged with carbon tax, then pass every cent on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Company B spend a bit of time and money to implement a less polluting way to produce the same product, aren't taxed, and offer it to the market cheaper than company A. Consumers automatically buy from company B, forcing company A to change their practices = less pollution. It really is a very simple concept to understand; the theory of carbon tax I mean. As for the one we're getting, I haven't had time to research the finer details, so unlike most, I wont comment on it specifically. A point to consider though - the GST wasn't popular at the start and resulted in the Howard governments approval rating to dip to the low 30's déjà vu anyone? |
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13-07-2011, 09:33 PM | #126 | ||||
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13-07-2011, 09:49 PM | #127 | |||
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Ironically (and sadly) it's the same situation we're in now. |
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13-07-2011, 09:54 PM | #128 | |||
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You say same, I say not. |
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13-07-2011, 09:55 PM | #129 | |||
Banned
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13-07-2011, 10:00 PM | #130 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Correct. Hopefully this carbon tax does to the greens what the GST did to the democrats.
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Daniel |
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13-07-2011, 10:02 PM | #131 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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VIXEN MK II GT 0238 with Sunroof and tinted windows with out all the go fast bits I actually need : |
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13-07-2011, 10:11 PM | #132 | |||
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It would appear to me the people screaming most about deceiving the people with the 'no carbon tax in a ...." are the ones didnt even vote for labor in the first place, how exactly have they been deceived? Last edited by sudszy; 13-07-2011 at 10:16 PM. |
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13-07-2011, 10:12 PM | #133 | |||||
335 - STILL THE BOSS ...
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1. There was a lie before the election Company B? Is this the fairies that dance at the bottom of my garden? There are way way to many questions with no definitive answers ....... EVERYTHING will increase ... To what extent? No one knows. There will be profiteering. To what exetent? No one knows. How many jobs will be created, maintained or lost? No one knows. How much visual pollution is wind farming going to produce? No one knows. Carbon Dioxide produced 'unnaturally' is actually a real problem here? Only those that think they know know but who knows really. Who is these 500 companies that are going to pay? I dont think they really do know. Who is running the country? I know. When are we going to close the coal mines down and stop exporting? I know we wont. What is the true cost to the manufacturing sector here? No one knows Is there going to be any manufacturing left? No one knows. What is the air quality be like in Melbourne or Sydney on 20 years time because of this tax? No one knows. What is going to be my electricity bill be in 3 years time? No one knows. How is it going to effect me and my family in 10 years time? No one knows. How is not the air we breath out labeled as pollution? I dont know. How much pain are we about to bear against the pain of having a status quo? No one knows. In the world environment, what difference are we going to make? No one knows. 'They' pay a tax .... 'They' pass it on to me ..... 'They' don't care. Magically ..... No polluting carbon? How? I don't know The air will be better ..... really? To what extent? No one knows. Why is Carbon dioxide such a dirty word? It is very natural and is a necessity ..... both natural and unnatural. I don't know why. What is going to replace these 'dirty' coal power stations that will guarantee a continuity of power? Solar? Gas? Wind? How clean is gas? I don't know? Climate will be controlled ...... well holy cow they are a damn clever bunch! ........... can think of another 20 BASIC questions but unfortunatly they are a bit political but I hope you understand that it is NOT Quote:
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We aren't talking about bananas here ..... we can do without these when the price sky rockets. We are talking about the necessities of life in the 21 century and bugger me if I am moving into a grass hut and walking to work.
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'73 Landau - 10.82 @ 131mph '11 FG GT335 - 12.43 @ 116mph '95 XG ute - 3 minutes, 21.14 @ 64mph 101,436 MEMBERS ......... 101,436 OPINIONS ..... What could possibly go wrong! Clevo Mafia [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Last edited by Auslandau; 13-07-2011 at 10:18 PM. |
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13-07-2011, 10:30 PM | #134 | |||
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13-07-2011, 10:31 PM | #135 | |||
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13-07-2011, 10:34 PM | #136 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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As for the current government being overwhelmingly rejected, thats obviously not entirely true. I could have said the same about the opposition had they managed to snare power. Although I agree with you on their future prospects. Quote:
Anyway, I dont wish to discuss the carbon tax here as its a fruitless exercise - everyone has made up their mind. I just made my previous post because I'm certain some on here are clueless to the theory behind how a carbon tax might be effective. |
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13-07-2011, 10:35 PM | #137 | |||
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Im now guessing you voted Liberal but are making a noise about how you were lied to by the person you didnt end up voting for anyway? |
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13-07-2011, 10:46 PM | #138 | |||
335 - STILL THE BOSS ...
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'73 Landau - 10.82 @ 131mph '11 FG GT335 - 12.43 @ 116mph '95 XG ute - 3 minutes, 21.14 @ 64mph 101,436 MEMBERS ......... 101,436 OPINIONS ..... What could possibly go wrong! Clevo Mafia [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] |
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13-07-2011, 10:48 PM | #139 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Are you serious? You really think businesses wont undercut their opposition if they are able to and still make a profit? It already happens all the time!! Holden do it to the point of not making a profit! Quote:
Thanks for listing all of your concerns, but they are completely irrelevant to anything I've posted. As I've said a couple of times, I was commenting on the theory behind a climate tax, not the climate tax Australia is about to recieve. |
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13-07-2011, 10:55 PM | #140 | |||
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Get with the program. Every poll under sun is suggesting 60-90% of respondents want an election NOW on this issue. It's not us you need to convince sudzy, it's the whole damned country. Thank The Lord that people are starting to speak their mind on this issue, it's been getting very scary for a long time now. |
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13-07-2011, 10:56 PM | #141 | |||
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13-07-2011, 10:57 PM | #142 | |||
335 - STILL THE BOSS ...
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The point being ....... a tax based on theory ..... what the hell is the point! NO ONE knows what the outcome will be ...... and that is just a little bit scary. Communism is very very good in theory.
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'73 Landau - 10.82 @ 131mph '11 FG GT335 - 12.43 @ 116mph '95 XG ute - 3 minutes, 21.14 @ 64mph 101,436 MEMBERS ......... 101,436 OPINIONS ..... What could possibly go wrong! Clevo Mafia [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] |
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13-07-2011, 11:24 PM | #143 | |||
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Julia Gillard did say there would be no carbon tax under a government she leads, but things change when you form a minority government. She would have had to make some sacrifices in order to form government, just as Tony Abbott would have had to make if he was successful in forming a minority government. I love how everyone is bagging out the Labor party over this, when if the Coalition was in power things would be much worse all round right now. Tony Abbott wouldn't have stimulated the economy during the GFC, meaning our now strong economy would have been like those of many other less fortunate countries. He would have brought back a 'Work Choices' style industrial relations system, which would see many out of work during a bad economic situation, and with a much reduced chance of getting another job (which would probably be on much less pay, and with no job security). So you wouldn't have been taxed, but hey, you'd have very little to be taxed on anyway. There would certainly be no moves towards reform of an ailing health system, which is simply straining under an ever ageing population. These are realities guys, there is always another side to things. I'm not saying I like all the decisions the current government has made. I cringed when the insulation scheme was introduced, but thought it would be good for some people who didn't have any insulation in their house (and couldn't afford to, i.e. pensioners). In the end, it was the shonky installers who were really to blame for that, but some responsibility should fall on the government for not ensuring adequate safeguards were in place. The same sort of thing happened when the LPG rebate was introduced by the Howard government, just not with tragic consequences (that I can recall anyway). The debate in this thread has been quite one sided, and I'm just trying to introduce some balance. You can be a car enthusiast and support a greener future, and I will be worse off under this carbon tax. Cheers |
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13-07-2011, 11:39 PM | #144 | |||
335 - STILL THE BOSS ...
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One sided? I look at it as a larger percentage in disagreement. I haven't said I am for or against it really but ..... if you asked anyone if they would like a cleaner environment the answer would be yes. Its how it is implemented that can be the problem. The implementation of this tax seems that it will hurt more than it being a fix to anything and long term it is just guess work ..... except that it is inevitable that the cost of living will increase somewhat. That is the only fact. As someone said the other day .... "If you were a climate change believer you should be disgusted in this package ..... and if you are a skeptic, even more so."
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'73 Landau - 10.82 @ 131mph '11 FG GT335 - 12.43 @ 116mph '95 XG ute - 3 minutes, 21.14 @ 64mph 101,436 MEMBERS ......... 101,436 OPINIONS ..... What could possibly go wrong! Clevo Mafia [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Last edited by Auslandau; 13-07-2011 at 11:44 PM. |
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13-07-2011, 11:41 PM | #145 | ||||
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Greg Combet (sp?) said this week that there would be over $600,000,000 going to the UN. Is this 10%? He also said it won't be funded by the Carbon Tax. Really?
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So yes Howard said there wasn't going to be a GST and we ended up with one however we had the chance to not have one. Big difference in my book. Last edited by naddis01; 13-07-2011 at 11:47 PM. |
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13-07-2011, 11:48 PM | #146 | ||||
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14-07-2011, 12:05 AM | #147 | |||||
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The devil is in the detail, and you're correct in that how this is implemented could be a problem. It is inevitable that the cost of living will increase, but the only real fact is that this will happen regardless of a carbon tax. From what I've seen of the details of the new tax, the cost of living will not increase for alot of people, although this is being actively misreported by some sections of the media. Quote:
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14-07-2011, 12:09 AM | #148 | ||
Have Boost, will use it..
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Or take it to a referendum
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14-07-2011, 12:22 AM | #149 | ||
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Just in case you were wondering which post I was referring to:
http://fordforums.com.au/showpost.ph...6&postcount=87 |
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14-07-2011, 12:25 AM | #150 | |||
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