Best bang for your bucks small car under 25 grand poll

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

i picked the holden astra - the latest model astras are very nice to drive.

Now theres a surprise!!

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by jonbays

you should think about the Renault Clio sport. its a small car but reminded me of racing minis from the 70's fast fast fast you can be as brave as you like in cornering. i was impressed.

just too small and not luxobarge enough for me in my old age but a great car better than the Peugots on the list

And it was $33,000 new. Which means it doesn't qualify for the sub $25k new car thing this thread is about.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Now theres a surprise!!

Hey, someone has to balance out the statistic :voldar02:

And for All of you Ripping into SA Built cars, don't forget that BMW and Mercedes both have Cars built in the same Country..oh..and as for the Holden Astra? Its built in Poland.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

In its price range it might be a good buy which is why I took one for a test drive when I was looking for a small car. It was too small under powered and not that good to drive.

Well, lets look at it and its competitors, and since as you say, the Zetec isn't sporty or special etc... we'll use the absolute base model, an LX 3dr manual, $15,990. 1.6 4cyl, 74kW 146Nm, 5spd manual.

Lets look at its same-price competition...

Hyundai Accent 3dr hatch, 5spd manual, 1.6 4cyl 82kW 145Nm - $15,990
Hyundai Getz 1.6 5dr hatch, 5spd manual, 1.6 4cyl 78kW 144Nm - $15,990
Honda Jazz GLi 5dr hatch, 5spd manual, 1.3 4cyl 61kW 119Nm - $15,990

and this continues with the likes of Kia's Rio, Mitsu Colt, Toyota Yaris etc etc.

Fiesta is the best performing car of all of these, best build quality, most refined, best handling, etc etc. The cars in its class that are actually better (VW Polo 1.6, VW Polo 1.9 TDI) or as good (Renault Clio 1.6, VW Polo 1.4) all cost more.

And as for what I mean by superior, German cars are superior in general. To everything. In their respective classes and/or otherwise. There is a reason that most car manufacturers strive to be like them. To have cars that feel the way theirs do. Copy their technologies, etc etc.

If I had $30k to burn, I'd rather be driving a bottom spec'd VW Golf 1.6 ($25,490+ on-roads) then a top-specced Toyota Corolla or what not. Its a better car. Always has been, always will be. And as the budgets go up, the models change, but the same rule applies.

[jonbays]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And it was $33,000 new. Which means it doesn't qualify for the sub $25k new car thing this thread is about.

OK you got me but the clio is a better car

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Well, lets look at it and its competitors, and since as you say, the Zetec isn't sporty or special etc... we'll use the absolute base model, an LX 3dr manual, $15,990. 1.6 4cyl, 74kW 146Nm, 5spd manual.

Lets look at its same-price competition...

Hyundai Accent 3dr hatch, 5spd manual, 1.6 4cyl 82kW 145Nm - $15,990
Hyundai Getz 1.6 5dr hatch, 5spd manual, 1.6 4cyl 78kW 144Nm - $15,990
Honda Jazz GLi 5dr hatch, 5spd manual, 1.3 4cyl 61kW 119Nm - $15,990

and this continues with the likes of Kia's Rio, Mitsu Colt, Toyota Yaris etc etc.

Fiesta is the best performing car of all of these, best build quality, most refined, best handling, etc etc. The cars in its class that are actually better (VW Polo 1.6, VW Polo 1.9 TDI) or as good (Renault Clio 1.6, VW Polo 1.4) all cost more.

And as for what I mean by superior, German cars are superior in general. To everything. In their respective classes and/or otherwise. There is a reason that most car manufacturers strive to be like them. To have cars that feel the way theirs do. Copy their technologies, etc etc.

If I had $30k to burn, I'd rather be driving a bottom spec'd VW Golf 1.6 ($25,490+ on-roads) then a top-specced Toyota Corolla or what not. Its a better car. Always has been, always will be. And as the budgets go up, the models change, but the same rule applies.

So now you realise the Zetec is nothing but a tarted up LX you are trying to justisfy it from a baselie car...

If I was in the market for that type of car from those 3 I would take the Honda...

[photn]

Originally Posted by mowog

So now you realise the Zetec is nothing but a tarted up LX you are trying to justisfy it from a baselie car...

If I was in the market for that type of car from those 3 I would take the Honda...

no you posted the Zetec is just a tarted up lx. Steffo decided to compare the LX because you would winge blah blah blah why didnt you use the LX its the same blah blah blah.

Lol you WOULD choose the JAZZ. your one of those ppl that think because Honda has a good rep with expensive cars and good quiality that you think the JAzz is the same... HA.

and you think that the German Built cars are no better than the SA ones. idiot. there are counltess of ppl that know a german designed and built cars are alot better than a SA cars.

the build quality cannot be matched by any manufacturer. if you had a list of cars on a piece of paper and you had to choose one. and the only info you had was the manufacturer ie germany, SA korea...etc.... 9/10 ppl would choose the german, regardless of what they got. obviously there is 1 Knob out of the 10 that would most probably choose the Korean one.....hmmmmm make a connection there. You would be that person to choose a korean car over a german one.

winge and complain and compare all you want. the majority of the world knows German Build quality is the best. Wake up to yourself.

as for the fiesta. when you are my age or anyone with a fiesta say 18-22 and you have a fixed budget and you want to buy a sportier car would you buy a jazz. or would you buy a german made. sexxy styles and moderately powered ford fiesta. for a decent price.

the fiesta IS a decent price for what you get, good build quiality, good design, sexual design, and a very econonomic car.

now please be Quite and go about your business someware else. i think every one has had enough of your crap. all you seem to be doing is stirring the pot.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by photn

no you posted the Zetec is just a tarted up lx. Steffo decided to compare the LX because you would winge blah blah blah why didnt you use the LX its the same blah blah blah.

Lol you WOULD choose the JAZZ. your one of those ppl that think because Honda has a good rep with expensive cars and good quiality that you think the JAzz is the same... HA.

and you think that the German Built cars are no better than the SA ones. idiot. there are counltess of ppl that know a german designed and built cars are alot better than a SA cars.

the build quality cannot be matched by any manufacturer. if you had a list of cars on a piece of paper and you had to choose one. and the only info you had was the manufacturer ie germany, SA korea...etc.... 9/10 ppl would choose the german, regardless of what they got. obviously there is 1 Knob out of the 10 that would most probably choose the Korean one.....hmmmmm make a connection there. You would be that person to choose a korean car over a german one.

winge and complain and compare all you want. the majority of the world knows German Build quality is the best. Wake up to yourself.

as for the fiesta. when you are my age or anyone with a fiesta say 18-22 and you have a fixed budget and you want to buy a sportier car would you buy a jazz. or would you buy a german made. sexxy styles and moderately powered ford fiesta. for a decent price.

the fiesta IS a decent price for what you get, good build quiality, good design, sexual design, and a very econonomic car.

now please be Quite and go about your business someware else. i think every one has had enough of your crap. all you seem to be doing is stirring the pot.

Are you feeling ok? seems that you might have some anger issues...

German = Better is marketing hype

Go Away... Mate I am having way too much fun you guys fight on the line like a huge fish... :

[Pieoter]

Originally Posted by mowog

So now you realise the Zetec is nothing but a tarted up LX you are trying to justisfy it from a baselie car...

Ill tell you just once again. It has extenisve suspension upgrades (Lower and stiffer springs, Harder dampers, low compliance bushes, Thicker front sway bar), close ratio gearbox and the 16inch rims. Granted the rims can easily be put onto something else.

Ok you'll get the jazz, Thats fine. But don't spout ill informed ****.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Ill tell you just once again. It has extenisve suspension upgrades (Lower and stiffer springs, Harder dampers, low compliance bushes, Thicker front sway bar), close ratio gearbox and the 16inch rims. Granted the rims can easily be put onto something else.

Ok you'll get the jazz, Thats fine. But don't spout ill informed ****.

Ok then its a sports car... are you happy now...

Its not that I would buy the Jazz its that I wouldnt buy a Fiesta for all the reasons I have said before.

What I am buying is an XR6 Turbo ute... Why? because I can :

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

So now you realise the Zetec is nothing but a tarted up LX you are trying to justisfy it from a baselie car...

If I was in the market for that type of car from those 3 I would take the Honda...

And you'd get in the Honda...

Bad build quality, cheap materials used inside and out, cheap, rattly interior, slow, bad handling, horrible ride, bad seating (especially in the back), etc etc. The myth that these cars are actually any good is quite ammusing. The Jazz is the worst new car I've had the displeasure of experiencing. And those Hyundai's are also pretty bad (my grandfather has an Accent). In fact, he wonders why his Accent with him driving (ie: not fast anywhere, not much throttle ever... slow grandpa driving) gets 10L/100km when my Fiesta gets 7.5L/100km with me driving (much faster), a/c on all the time, and the same size engines.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

German = Better is marketing hype

Its a bit more then that. Like I said before, there's a reason all these "good" Jap manufacturers always try to make their cars look, feel, sound and perform like German cars.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Ill tell you just once again. It has extenisve suspension upgrades (Lower and stiffer springs, Harder dampers, low compliance bushes, Thicker front sway bar), close ratio gearbox and the 16inch rims. Granted the rims can easily be put onto something else.

Ok you'll get the jazz, Thats fine. But don't spout ill informed ****.

I just had a look at the spec's on the Festiva

LX 1056kg
Zetec 1064kg

My guess is the gearing is different so that Zetec isnt slower than the LX because of the extra weight...

It would seem that the spec's for the suspension are the same. As stated in the info on both cars but hey I will take your word for it...

And 74kw is on PULP... That would make it about 70kw on ULP

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

I just had a look at the spec's on the Festiva

LX 1056kg
Zetec 1064kg

My guess is the gearing is different so that Zetec isnt slower than the LX because of the extra weight...

It would seem that the spec's for the suspension are the same. As stated in the info on both cars but hey I will take your word for it...

And 74kw is on PULP... That would make it about 70kw on ULP

The hardware is the same but the Zetec low and firmer, that's all.

As for the 70kW on regular, the only time I ever did run regular in my car there was zero performance difference.

[photn]

Originally Posted by mowog

I just had a look at the spec's on the Festiva

your an idiot. i swear, now you seriously should be quite and go away. if you dont know what car we are talking about bugger off. get the facts right.....and your at least 4 years too late to comment on the FESTIVA!

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And you'd get in the Honda...

Bad build quality, cheap materials used inside and out, cheap, rattly interior, slow, bad handling, horrible ride, bad seating (especially in the back), etc etc. The myth that these cars are actually any good is quite ammusing. The Jazz is the worst new car I've had the displeasure of experiencing. And those Hyundai's are also pretty bad (my grandfather has an Accent). In fact, he wonders why his Accent with him driving (ie: not fast anywhere, not much throttle ever... slow grandpa driving) gets 10L/100km when my Fiesta gets 7.5L/100km with me driving (much faster), a/c on all the time, and the same size engines.

We agree on something Hyundai's are crap...

Everything you said about build quality is typical of the class of car we are talking about.

The Fiesta is No Audi BMW or Merc. It is a cheap city car. cheap cars no mater where they are made are still cheap cars.

I get 6.5-7.0/100lkm around town from a 141kw Corolla.

[Pieoter]

Mowog 8kg isn't much difference. Differences in how full the tank is, how fat the driver is etc more than make up for it. IT would make F All difference.


I never claimed in was a sports car. Its just more sporty than the LX and GHIA. IT might hurt you to hear this but the Zetec will cream your ute when it comes to cornering.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by photn

your an idiot. i swear, now you seriously should be quite and go away. if you dont know what car we are talking about bugger off. get the facts right.....and your at least 4 years too late to comment on the FESTIVA!

I was just wondering did you loose a bet?

Or did you put those strips on your car by choice.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

The Fiesta is No Audi BMW or Merc. It is a cheap city car. cheap cars no mater where they are made are still cheap cars.

It's impressed enough people I've shown it to who own expensive German cars.

And people with Japanese cars worth 3x the Fez comment on how it feels better made then theirs :

As for not being an Audi/BMW/Merc etc... it still needs to compete with some of their cars... Audi A2, VW Polo etc. If its made in the same country, it has to be made to their standards to be viable competition, especially considering that in Germany, and most of Europe, the price difference it enjoys here is greatly diminished.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Mowog 8kg isn't much difference. Differences in how full the tank is, how fat the driver is etc more than make up for it. IT would make F All difference.


I never claimed in was a sports car. Its just more sporty than the LX and GHIA. IT might hurt you to hear this but the Zetec will cream your ute when it comes to cornering.

Yup will most likely go around corners better than the XR6 ute but I can live with that. The ute isnt going to be a boy racer car its going to be a tow car..

[Pieoter]

If your towing get a diesel.

[mowog]

Ok guys I have had enough fun I am getting bored with this anyway...

We are all cars guys who enjoy our cars and driving... Enjoy your cars and have fun.

[Steffo]

Just out of curiosity, what will the XR6T Ute be towing?

[photn]

you are one of those ppl that have that narrow minded view on cars. that all 4cylinder cars are cheap and crap compared to big 6 and 8 cyclinder cars.....well guess what. when you fill you car up for 100 bucks and it starts costing you an arm and a leg. i will be laughing filling up for 30-40 bucks and being able to spend the rest of the money on something worth wile...

a tow car.... will that "tow" car be towing your a$$ out of this thread.....

can you tell i dont like you that much????

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Pieoter

If your towing get a diesel.

I wont always be towing something so when its not doing that its just a Toy. And it will only be towing around 800kg. My Territory averages 14l/100 towing the same camper which is better than some diesels can average.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

I wont always be towing something so when its not doing that its just a Toy. And it will only be towing around 800kg. My Territory averages 14l/100 towing the same camper which is better than some diesels can average.

Ah, only 800kg. I'd probably have chosen an XR6 Turbo then myself. Its no secret they slaughter the 8's :hihi:

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Just out of curiosity, what will the XR6T Ute be towing?

Answered that below but again... A camper that is about 800kg

The ute is a lifestyle choice not just a tow car...

[mowog]

Originally Posted by photn

you are one of those ppl that have that narrow minded view on cars. that all 4cylinder cars are cheap and crap compared to big 6 and 8 cyclinder cars.....well guess what. when you fill you car up for 100 bucks and it starts costing you an arm and a leg. i will be laughing filling up for 30-40 bucks and being able to spend the rest of the money on something worth wile...

a tow car.... will that "tow" car be towing your a$$ out of this thread.....

can you tell i dont like you that much????

You are a funny guy...

I own 3, 4 cylinder cars I have owned a long line of 4's from a MK1 Cooper S to 5 Mini Mokes a Series 1 Suzuki Swift GTi. And currently a Corolla Sportivo

I have only ever owned 1 V8 which was a HQ ute with a nice 308...

A $100 fillup that doesnt hurt at all, I earn enough that the cost of fuel isnt an issue for me.

[photn]

Originally Posted by mowog

You are a funny guy...

I own 3, 4 cylinder cars I have owned a long line of 4's from a MK1 Cooper S to 5 Mini Mokes a Series 1 Suzuki Swift GTi. And currently a Corolla Sportivo

I have only ever owned 1 V8 which was a HQ ute with a nice 308...

A $100 fillup that doesnt hurt at all, I earn enough that the cost of fuel isnt an issue for me.

yet you still insist that small cars are shopping trolley's??

what makes them a shopping trolley?

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And you'd get in the Honda...

Bad build quality, cheap materials used inside and out, cheap, rattly interior, slow, bad handling, horrible ride, bad seating (especially in the back), etc etc. The myth that these cars are actually any good is quite ammusing. The Jazz is the worst new car I've had the displeasure of experiencing. And those Hyundai's are also pretty bad (my grandfather has an Accent). In fact, he wonders why his Accent with him driving (ie: not fast anywhere, not much throttle ever... slow grandpa driving) gets 10L/100km when my Fiesta gets 7.5L/100km with me driving (much faster), a/c on all the time, and the same size engines.

Where do you get this stuff from? In my experience Honda's have always had extremley good build quality - every comparo I have read praises the Jazz, and has it winning. Granted I don't like the styling of the Jazz but apart from that I think its a worthy competitor in this segment.

If I was the OP and was in the market I'd be buying a Mazda 3 (does everything well, and has good resale) or the Honda Civic (again good resale, but its something a little different in terms of styling, technology ect).