Quickest unopened BOSS Engine - Page 5

**Chris** · 25-11-2005, 08:02 PM

Ok then, unopened.

so how do you police it? ive seen engines with "varying" manifold vac due to cam differences from the factory.

so HOW DO YOU POLICE IT? you cannot.

if its all about mateship and a beer and honesty, then rules shouldn't matter, just run forced or NA.

But some workshops rely on a reputation, and (shock horror) may "bend the truth" with regard to mods, in order to alter public perception. Mateship is one thing, but in a business, $$$$ count.

this is why I have been so open about what I have done.

There are so many things about the boss motor you can change and keep it within the rules cam has set out, but I dont think it can be policed.

If you guys are going to implement opened/unopened it will make it nearly impossible to avoid finger pointing. Leaving it forced or NA ends the arguments there.

either way, lets get it on.

SpoolMan · 25-11-2005, 10:04 PM

Yeah lets rip up the track.....whoops i don't have a Boss anymore...
I will have to hair dryer the track...lol..
With the introduction of H/P Tuners or VCM suite coming along soon there will be a lot of novice tuners that will be playing Home Tuner with there own Boss..this is in part why we need a unopened category, gives the little guy who wants to play with his own tune something to aim for....
Unopened you have to find new ways of making the car go quicker, without cracking the engine open, keeps a tighter budget on things makes it harder.
The fastest N/A opened Boss or Forced Boss will be the person that has the biggest budget.

XRQTR · 25-11-2005, 11:36 PM

I'd hate to see you blokes when you're old and grey and trying to figure out whos wheel chair has the illegal bearings and carbon fibre centre. :hihi:

I know this may seem simple but whoever has the fastest cars, especially if they are perhaps too fast for the claims made on them, can expect to get the covers lifted.

:

However in saying this it would also only be fair that those who point the finger should be paying for the hand that holds the spanner at the festival of truth and only if it is found that an illegal/improper improvement has been made then the owner can fork out for the cavity search

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XRQTR · 26-11-2005, 01:37 PM

Another thing I was just thinking about on the way back from G+D, which by the way is shaping up to be a pretty good turn out, was why not run the series just like any race series with a points system.

Maybe the best way, if we are to play by the honour system, might be to run a heads up type of category where similar cars are ran together and for example 2 points for a win at the line and 1 point for ET, or even 5 points for a win, 3 for ET and even say 1 point for mph. Then if you wanted to mix things up a bit maybe go a wild card series a couple of times a year where the competitors and who they will run are actually pulled out of a hat, this could be like the 3 race super points series in the V8s where you may actually be able to increase any lead you may have or even drop it if you're really unlucky lol. But even then maybe just be able to drop your worst round, I mean if its gonna be a series then it should be ran as one not just turn up if you want but actually have pretty much full time competitors.

I have some other things but would like to hear peoples thoughts on this first, and the whole point of keeping the points do low is to keep the series as close as possible not have someone with a 500 point lead half way through the round.

Your thoughts and comments gentlemen

Cheerz
Stef

Craig · 26-11-2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Another thing I was just thinking about on the way back from G+D, which by the way is shaping up to be a pretty good turn out, was why not run the series just like any race series with a points system.

Maybe the best way, if we are to play by the honour system, might be to run a heads up type of category where similar cars are ran together and for example 2 points for a win at the line and 1 point for ET, or even 5 points for a win, 3 for ET and even say 1 point for mph. Then if you wanted to mix things up a bit maybe go a wild card series a couple of times a year where the competitors and who they will run are actually pulled out of a hat, this could be like the 3 race super points series in the V8s where you may actually be able to increase any lead you may have or even drop it if you're really unlucky lol. But even then maybe just be able to drop your worst round, I mean if its gonna be a series then it should be ran as one not just turn up if you want but actually have pretty much full time competitors.

I have some other things but would like to hear peoples thoughts on this first, and the whole point of keeping the points do low is to keep the series as close as possible not have someone with a 500 point lead half way through the round.

Your thoughts and comments gentlemen

Cheerz
Stef

This is all getting too difficult i think i will just stay as run what ya brung.....

**Chris** · 26-11-2005, 02:29 PM

yeah rock on!!

CAMS290 · 26-11-2005, 04:03 PM

Guys, the Un-Opened class will be a good thing for the majority of people who want a bit more out of their boss powered cars, without blowing the budget. Having a 260 & 290 Un-opened class will keep it fair for the 260 owners, because of their 30kw disadvantage from the start.

How about: 260 Un-opened
290 Un-Opened
Boss N/A
Boss Forced inc Nitros

rodderz · 26-11-2005, 05:28 PM

Thats not a bad idea Cam, it's simplified it a great deal but still has definitions between each class that define the level of modification

Quadcams · 26-11-2005, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

Guys, the Un-Opened class will be a good thing for the majority of people who want a bit more out of their boss powered cars, without blowing the budget. Having a 260 & 290 Un-opened class will keep it fair for the 260 owners, because of their 30kw disadvantage from the start.

How about: 260 Un-opened
290 Un-Opened
Boss N/A
Boss Forced inc Nitros

Thats how i've always looked at it.

Now lets race. :sm_headba

XRQTR · 27-11-2005, 12:40 AM

If you're gonna worry about sub classes then how about sub sub and also sub sub sub classes.

The only sub classes should be set out as N/A and F.I. which would effectively put it at 4 different classes.

SpoolMan · 27-11-2005, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

If you're gonna worry about sub classes then how about sub sub and also sub sub sub classes.

Stef you can get these at a lot of service stations now, i like mine with 6 grams of fat or less....hold the mayo..lol..

:

XRQTR · 27-11-2005, 10:25 AM

The wraps are better bud, and what are you worried about 6 grams for?? your waistline seems ok to me haha

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CAMS290 · 27-11-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowride260

Now lets race. :sm_headba

Lets go and kick some LS1 **** :1syellow1

X ORSMXR · 28-11-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

How about: 260 Un-opened
290 Un-Opened
Boss N/A
Boss Forced inc Nitros

l like this too, and of course the stipulation between 260 and 290

DOC · 28-11-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

l like this too, and of course the stipulation between 260 and 290

Hi Chris ( Orsm )

having the NA as one leaves a long gap between those who have opened motors etc ? dont know but makes it mostly impossible for those with just bolt ons ?

or maybe i just gets back in my corner

Un Opened
NA
Opened
Forced

:

Quadcams · 28-11-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

Hi Chris ( Orsm )

having the NA as one leaves a long gap between those who have opened motors etc ? dont know but makes it mostly impossible for those with just bolt ons ?

or maybe i just gets back in my corner

Un Opened
NA
Opened
Forced

:

Doc I think you have to keep the unopened 260 & 290 records apart as the 290's have a good advantage over the 260's (much better internals). once the 290 boys get going there going to smash us 260's.

DOC · 28-11-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowride260

Doc I think you have to keep the unopened 260 & 290 records apart as the 290's have a good advantage over the 260's (much better internals). once the 290 boys get going there going to smash us 260's.

yes agree one for 260 and 290

**Bluepower** · 28-11-2005, 04:25 PM

unopened or opened is in reality not relevant.

If the motor has oil pump gears replaced, it is OPENED.

We believe that concious effort should be maintained in providing the customer with the best bang for their dollar, if it means opening the engine, then so be it.

Most clients in the real world want the most for their dollar - maintaining an "unopened" rule will cause campaigners to use larger than necessary stall converters as was the case at a recent drag meeting.

From a Drag racing perspective, there should only be 2 classes. Any more than that, and it will get very boring very quick.

347_XR8 · 28-11-2005, 05:17 PM

I heard that changing the oil pump gear was a reliabilty issue, and had no performance gain, therefore not "opened" because there is no possiblie gain from it.
There has to be more than 2 categories, cause no matter which way you look at it (opened vs un-opened or forced v n/a) it is going to make a big split between opions.
I suggest running ona similar set-up to LS1's

CAMS290 · 28-11-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukey_XF

I heard that changing the oil pump gear was a reliabilty issue, and had no performance gain, therefore not "opened" because there is no possiblie gain from it.
There has to be more than 2 categories, cause no matter which way you look at it (opened vs un-opened or forced v n/a) it is going to make a big split between opions.
I suggest running ona similar set-up to LS1's

I had timing chain tensioners replaced under warranty too, so technically speaking, mine has been opened too ???
Oil pump gears are definatly a reliability issue, not a performance gain involved, like the LS1 valve springs.

I agree Luke, more budget conscious people will look closer at the un-opened class, as a guide of what they can achieve with more modest spending.
And seperating the 260/290 motors will make it fairer for the 260 guys.

Then you can have just 1 opened class, that can be open slather with modifications.

CAMS290 · 28-11-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

Most clients in the real world want the most for their dollar - maintaining an "unopened" rule will cause campaigners to use larger than necessary stall converters as was the case at a recent drag meeting.

If it a means to get a quick time, or chase a time, some people resort to removing weight from their cars by removing seats like some of the LS1 guys, or using light weight racing wheels. A lot of clients wouldnt bother lightening their cars to improve performance either .
Stall convertors and diff gears go hand in hand to get these heavy barges off the line.

**Bluepower** · 28-11-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

If it a means to get a quick time, or chase a time, some people resort to removing weight from their cars by removing seats like some of the LS1 guys, or using light weight racing wheels. A lot of clients wouldnt bother lightening their cars to improve performance either .
Stall convertors and diff gears go hand in hand to get these heavy barges off the line.

Yes, I certainly hear you there. The cars certainly feel much "lighter" with some drivetrain assistance.

imagine it with a 6 spd auto!!

**Bluepower** · 28-11-2005, 06:11 PM

And we were not referring to your car with our comment regarding your converter. Outstanding first effort mate, what were the other runs like? how many, how hot was it?

rodderz · 28-11-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

I had timing chain tensioners replaced under warranty too, so technically speaking, mine has been opened too ???
Oil pump gears are definatly a reliability issue, not a performance gain involved, like the LS1 valve springs.

I agree Luke, more budget conscious people will look closer at the un-opened class, as a guide of what they can achieve with more modest spending.
And seperating the 260/290 motors will make it fairer for the 260 guys.

Then you can have just 1 opened class, that can be open slather with modifications.

Spot on Cam... while I hear what you're saying Chris I think most people think of enhancements when they hear "unopened"

Things like valve springs or oil pump gears are done to improve a weak part, not to give more power (although ls1's can achieve higher revs with better springs?). It may involve opening up the engine, but yet so would be replacing the timing chain tensioners as a few Boss motors have got. I would regard it more a service item than a mod- better to protect things before you go thrashing them

I would regard opened as doing modifications to either the stock parts to improve power and torque, or replacing those parts with items that allow greater tuing scope for higher revs, or machining engine parts for the same purpose. These things will not be financially available for most punters thus they would want to stick to an unopened section

Cam, after being in your beast on Saturday I cant wait to what she pulls after some adjustments! I think we'll see something well into the 12's all being well!

XRQTR · 28-11-2005, 11:08 PM

Guys you speak of unopened unless for reliability issues, well as i understand it Chris Xtremes cam timing is more a reliability issue as they are out of sync from factory and therefore would comply with a reliability issue. I mean wouldnt it be beneficial to know we are all on a level playing field in this respect??

Correct me if i'm wrong gentlemen.

CAMS290 · 28-11-2005, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

And we were not referring to your car with our comment regarding your converter. Outstanding first effort mate, what were the other runs like? how many, how hot was it?

Heaps of 13.2 and 13.1 runs around 104 to 106mph with high 1.8 60' times.
The weather was around 22 to 25 degrees, a nice cool night would of been great.lol
Have to wait for Calder, a nice cool night hopefully.

Seems as though there is still a couple of torque reduction settings that have to be sorted out, it is shutting down on WOT changes, costing me at least a couple of tenths per shift, you can feel yourself getting thrown forward in the seat between changes.

A very comendable effort by the guys at G & D for only having the software for a week before, mine was the first auto they have done.
It is an awesome drive on the street, an absolute animal.
A bit more fine tuning with the auto and we will be out to have some fun.
:voldar02:

CAMS290 · 28-11-2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Guys you speak of unopened unless for reliability issues, well as i understand it Chris Xtremes cam timing is more a reliability issue as they are out of sync from factory and therefore would comply with a reliability issue. I mean wouldnt it be beneficial to know we are all on a level playing field in this respect??

Correct me if i'm wrong gentlemen.

It is a known fact that there is a problem with oil pump gears on the boss motors, Chris would know, more than most people about this, i know personally of 5 failures, 4 of them have resulted in replacement motors.

Have you heard of any motors being replaced for cam shaft timing problems ???
I dont think it is a reliability problem, but i have heard there is some gains in playing with the lobe separation, there may even be some tolerance in the standard gears to play with

:

**Chris** · 28-11-2005, 11:26 PM

correct cam, we played with the gears for more cylinder pressure, to make a 260 perform more like its older brother, the 290.

Calder is on Friday, coming out?

CAMS290 · 28-11-2005, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

Cam, after being in your beast on Saturday I cant wait to what she pulls after some adjustments! I think we'll see something well into the 12's all being well!

Im not counting my chooks before they are hatched Rodderz,but i honestly think it will run a 12 when the trans is sorted out, everyone that has been in the car can feel the hesitation between shifts.

CAMS290 · 28-11-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

correct cam, we played with the gears for more cylinder pressure, to make a 260 perform more like its older brother, the 290.

Calder is on Friday, coming out?

I wont have it sorted by Friday Chris, hopefully by Friday week it will be right.
Its frustrating knowing we are losing tenths, i will be there with bells on when the little glitch is fixed.

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