Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Respectfully, I don't think affordability is the issue with Commodore and Falcon sales.
the average transaction prices have been stable over the last ten years or so.
I think it has far more to do with your latter point, smaller vehicles increasing in both
size and quality as well as an a la carte choice of vehicles tailor made to buyers needs.

Large cars need to be more attractive to buyers, offering a genuine fuel efficient
alternative to heavy SUVs without the mandatory need for a a diesel option,
a 5-door hatchback increases the chances of attracting those buyers back to Falcon.

has the sporswagon taken sales from ford? or from commodore?
would ford have a business case for a 5 door falcon?

[falconnut]

If i had the $60k to get a top of the line G6ET i would, but i dont :(

[nickdl]

If people want a car 5m long in the city they'll probably want it to be a ute or to seat more than 5. As people have said above, a Mazda3 is big enough as a family car, and for the same money as a heavily discounted XT Falcon, they can get a top of the range model with a lot more features and tech.

[Rodge]

Banks and finance companies have been ramming debt down our throat's for the last decade, who can forget all the add's, "put that holiday, car or boat on your house" and many consumers in the western world are up to their necks in debt and simply can't afford the initial up front purchase price of a large car when there's cars slightly smaller that do the same job for half the money.

Large cars arn't so necessary as we're moving to smaller families and the baby boomers kids are leaving home, (have left home ).

Falcon hasn't kept up with the latest tecnology, just jump in a Mondeo Titanium, which is almost as large as a Falcon and an excellent case in point.

Consumers seem to be smarter than we give them credit for, there's economic fears from a complete financial meltdown in Europe that will have severe ramifications for all the world's economies and fears of peak oil just around the corner. Sure Falcon have and are releasing more efficient powered vehicles but is it all too little, too late, are families now looking for vehicles in the 5-7 litres per 100 km's efficiency range, I think so. Just look at the December sales stat's on that thread, 5 of the top 6 selling vehicles are small cars and the other one is the Commodore. Tells you what customers want and (that Commordore much as we hate to admitt it), must be doing something right.

Resale has been a traditional weak point for Falcon and perhaps consumers are sick of getting a hiding every time they change over ? I updated my wife's small car and the changeover was only $12,500, it was a very refreshing and most welcome change to what I'm used to with Ford / FPV's.
I've written too many large cheques to Ford and FPV dealers and I know it, can't help but wonder if other customers are starting to feel the same way.

[2011G6E]

Simple answer to the original question...
"Economy".
Not only fuel economy, but the economy in general. Couple that with amazing equipment levels in "foreign" cars and the fact that the vast majority of consumers today couldn't care less and probably don't even know what end is doing the driving, and large cars (because cars like Mazda 6's & Camrys aren't "small" or even really medium anymore) that have a cheaper-to-register four cylinder engine are a better choice. It's happened before (people deserting sixes and eights in droves for fours), it'll happen again.

The four cylinder Falcon could change a lot of things...providing Ford actually hammer the advertising on it...

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by onfire

The Mazda 6 tops the list as the most sold vehicle in the country. The Holden Commodore comes in at number 2. While our very own Ford Falcon drops to 9th place overall for 2011.

Whats going on?

With the Mazda 6 taking the honors, it suggests what a lot of us will deny - that Australian consumers are moving towards small sedans with 4 Cylinders while remaining practical.

The 2nd placing for the Commodore tells us, there's still hope for the big 6 cylinder sedan in today's world. Could the green marketing push behind the SIDI engine have inspired some to stick to a larger car?

ok . i have a couple of theries . 1st of all please dont take offence , i dont want this to sound racist , and i may be just waffling off my head , i have only read the 1st post in this thread ,
now i think AUSTRALIAS population isnt coming from being born in an australian hospital . lots of people are coming here from overseas , these people have a background which is not atuned to what we call an aussie , with 2.3 kids , and a holden or falcon in the garage . so i think falcon and holden would be suffering sales from this , 2ndly younger people in thier 20's and 30's might not have the budget to by a new falcon , they might be buying smaller cars at 10k cheaper , thats my take , SUV markets have grown also . i think the people in australia today arent the same backround type people that were around 20 years ago , but the falcon still belongs to the 20 year ago type aussie .
a perfect example of this is suburbs , certain ethnicities live in certain suburbs .i'm sure they buy cars that thier neighbours like also . it makes sense to me ,
if i went and lived in russia , and there was a town full of aussies ( a few million aussies or so ) i guess thats where id live , and there would be a few falcons aroungd that place as well , especially if they were cheaper than the russian cars .
thinking further into it , there arent a lot of of holdens and fords around here where i live , and it has nothing to do with where people were born , i guess i'm eff d if i know now .

[z80]

The thing that puts me off buying a new Falcon is all the trouble people seem to have with after sales support.

Petrol is about the cheapest thing you put in a car unless you are a taxi.
So who cares if it uses a 5 litres ($7.50) a week more fuel than a smaller hatch like a Focus?

I just don't think any little hatch is as safe as a full sized, long bonnet car like a falcon or commodore.

Forget the 97 airbags and fancy ESP...all that goes out the window when someone T bones you and you have no time to react.

A Focus over a Falcon?......nah.....

A Mazda 3 or 6 over a Falcon?....nah...

I'll save my misery time in a wheel chair for when I go in the aged care nursing home, not just to save 7 bucks a week in fuel and get crippled in a small buzz box.

How would I feel having a crash in a Mazda 3 with all the family onboard?



EEEEEEk!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

1) has the sporswagon taken sales from ford? or from commodore?
would ford have a business case for a 5 door falcon?

1) there is no way to know but evidence abounds that Commodore sedan sales dropped as Sportwagon sales increased.
This could have been due to VZ stationwagon owners settling for a VE sedan until the sportwagon became available.

2) the fact that Ford stopped importing mondeo sedan says that says it was a liability,
there's every possibility that buyers are seeking the same utility out of Falcon and
maybe a sedan doesn't pass muster anymore....who knows for sure...

[jmack]

i think one of the biggest things to change is that a car use to be s show of status ,where now to the majority of people it is a means to get from point a to b and that footpath u cross when picking up a new car is damn expensive to cross unless u can write it off with tax ,and dont even go near the dearship issues

[falconnut]

Yeah the dealers are terrible.

[JG34JA]

One thing is lack of a wagon, but having a sweet steering Territory makes up for that: flexible, capable, spacious, wagon body. A really good product decision by Ford.

Maybe another is size, as measured in weight. I'm sure in the 1960's the Galaxie and Impala (1800kg+) were comprehensively outsold by the XR and HR (1300-1500kg). Nothing really changes. The ideal Aussie family car size is still 1400kg.

Third, I think cars are no longer seen in the same way. Never to be tinkered with or truly understood, they are just an item for A-B with as little hurt to the wallet, while enabling continuing connectivity. Before 2000 an automobile might have been the ticket to personal freedom of movement; now that freedom is online, over wireless, social networking sites, the www. So a Falcon that features raw grunt and the capacity for effortless travel over great distances has been superseded by (say) a Fiesta with bluetooth and full ipod compatibility for the freedom to remain constantly connected to others (an oxymoron?) on demand.

[kevino]

Yeah and if you do 800km a week and pay for your own fuel like I do a 2011 run out LX diesel Fiesta doing 4.5kms per 100 litres sounds pretty useful.
esp at say $18-19k.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

Maybe another is size, as measured in weight. I'm sure in the 1960's the Galaxie and Impala (1800kg+) were comprehensively outsold by the XR and HR (1300-1500kg). Nothing really changes. The ideal Aussie family car size is still 1400kg.

What an interesting concept, as i recall sales in the '70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s,
it seems that the sweet spot for most sales was between 900 Kg and 1400 kg
even though vehicles changed in that period the weight range remained similar but
once Falcon, Commodore and the larger Mid sizers began increasing in weight, their sales
began to wane, I suspect that city fuel economy really suffered and no amount of gearing
could make up for it, meaning people had to go to lighter cars to recover city fuel economy.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by falconnut

If i had the $60k to get a top of the line G6ET i would, but i dont :(

This is the situation for most. So a Mazda 3 is the more attractive option. These days falcons only competitor isn't commodore, its camry, Mazda 3 and even lancer.

Let's consider the falcon against these cars, reliability its at least on par, power its way ahead, economy a bit behind, practicality its on par too, so why don't they sell?? price!!!

Also Ford should with tail between legs dump the funny names like g6, g6et, g6eftpyu and whatever else and bring back fairmont and fairmont ghia even fairlane and LTD. Watch all the buyers come out if the woods. Offer a falcon xt with a v8 and steal all the ss sales.

They have a good product but they are trying to sell ice to eskimos. (People don't need it and not willing to pay price premium.)

[ZDHLANE]

I think a few factors like a few previoulsy mentioned.

1. These cars depreciate so quickly.

Even if i could afford brand new I would still wait abit and buy second hand. You get a whole lot of car for the money.
Unless you just have to have one as soon as it comes out, why wouldn't you by one for about $17000 cheaper 12-16mths later!
Alot of us that are looking to upgrade from a previous quality model

2. Advertising.

The advertising is woeful!. It has been discussed in other threads and it has too be a big part of it.
Despite financial difficulties, Holden has kept promoting what they think is a great Aussie product.
Funny, as much as I don't like the cars when i think of car adds, i tend to think Holden over anything else! (
Face it. Holdens advertising is still agresssive.

I think Ford have failed to "sell" the FG,they have not capitalised on promoting how good this vehicle is. (Its abit like advertising the EL trying to compete with the all new VT back in the day. Its too late and sales show it.

3. Fleet vehicles
How many Toyota and Mazda company cars do you see now?
We have seen Camries for yeards now, and we know the QLD has reduced the amount of Fords because of calimed Fuel emissions!!!!


It is interesting that back in the XD days when alot of kingswood fans got on the bandwagon of the European designed VB commodore, many found that the smaller lighter car did not suit all family types. Many still preferred the larger Kingswoods. Several others on either side including many Taxi owner operators steered towards the XD dues to its size despite weight!



Cheers

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by z80

So who cares if it uses a 5 litres ($7.50) a week more

$7.50 x 52 = $390 a year

Lets times that $390 by say, 5, if you keep the car for 5 years.

$1950 extra to go the same distance.

Plus the extra a Falcon costs over a Focus (same size as Mazda 3), my Focus was $26,000, XR6 Falcon was $35,000.

Insurance comparison doesn't matter at my age anyway, because regardless its always around $1800-$2500 anyways.

[jixel 78]

Originally Posted by falconnut

I agree with you dimka.

Jixel i dont know why you bought a BA Fairmont if you wanted fuel economy, a Wagon would have been much more suitable from the sound of things.

I`d have bought a Ford wagon, I only had one kid, the money was in the bank, but if they werent all XT bangers with no fast glass in the rear, no dual zone A/C no six stacker premium sound, no rims, no leather,no sports suspension(like AU SR but I didnt want an old stinker AU)leaf spring clanger back end, no nothing! The following Falcon wagon has around here is a bit silly when you can get a Terry,at least they have all the gear. But I cant stand the high rider lookit me SUV. They really are w@nk packs. The depreciacion on my Fairmont is such that I`d rather spend the money on my house or the kids holidays, and drive it into the dirt.Because by the time I trade it on a Commodore, they`ll give me nothing for it, no matter how `enthusiastically` well I cared for it. And theres the rub.

[Falc'man]

Affordability and cost cutting.

To buy a new Falcon of any sort, for a private buyer, is in many ways a luxury in that it is spacious for the occupants, it has the torque and power, the plush ride, and it's rugged. It's too big for the needs of most when they can get something cheaper that does the same job.

A lot of people nowadays need to preserve the dollar; there are many more options out there - cheap Korean cars where the quality has improved a fair bit, so it's no surprise the private sector is turning away from the larger cars.

So the main reason I think is affordability and living within our means.



When it comes to fleets, you can apply the same.
In a previous employ I went to get a BF turbo through novated leasing, the company director said "you don't need that" and didn't approve, although it was within my budget (I was betting he was scared his VE Calais V8 would get owned).

It's probably getting to the point now where more and more fleets, even where it's user-chooser, are saying no to the larger cars for the same reasons.. "you don't need that to do your job". It's cost-cutting like never before, it's saving fuel like never before. Can you blame them? The company I'm at at the moment are still on their BA Mk2's at Melbourne's head office. The director has a BF2 and so do we in Sydney, and we were last told that any updates are on hold.

So, why WOULD you buy a Falcon when priorities are paying bigger electricity bills, mortgage, or high rent? If you're not very well off then you wouldn't. People are made to live within their needs, that's for sure.

We're also confusing what people NEED, with what is IDEAL in the perfect world, that we all support the locals,
and as enthusiasts we KNOW that Falcon deserves to sell better, but, again, most people are looking after number one.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Also Ford should with tail between legs dump the funny names like g6, g6et, g6eftpyu and whatever else and bring back fairmont and fairmont ghia even fairlane and LTD. Watch all the buyers come out if the woods.

Watch buyers come out of the nursing homes you mean.

Originally Posted by ZDHLANE

3. Fleet vehicles
How many Toyota and Mazda company cars do you see now?
We have seen Camries for yeards now, and we know the QLD has reduced the amount of Fords because of calimed Fuel emissions!!!!

Mazda 3 had over 80% private sales last time I checked. I am sure any of the locals would love to get anywhere near that percentage.

[jixel 78]

And , well i certainly didnt buy a Fairmont for fuel economy, but all the other `ergonomic` stuff only came with a second child, half the second income etc. And a Commodore Sportwagon was a scratch in old man Holdens overalls at the time, if you get my drift.Eyebrows were raised when I saw one in that Voodoo blue colour.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by z80

Forget the 97 airbags and fancy ESP...that goes out the window when someone T bones you and you have no time to react.

A Focus over a Falcon?......nah.....

A Mazda 3 or 6 over a Falcon?....nah...

I'll save my misery time in a wheel chair for when I go in the aged care nursing home, not just to save 7 bucks a week in fuel and get crippled in a small buzz box.

How would I feel having a crash in a Mazda 3 with all the family onboard?


EEEEEEk!

Totally agree with this point. That's why my Mrs drives a fairmont. Yes a peugoet gti or mini cooper s is cooler but I want my Mrs (and me) to be safe. Sometimes accidents are other peoples fault and unavoidable.

But unfortunately most people dont think like us. They are penny pinchers at the expense of safety. For a couple of bucks a week.

[superfly]

I went against the trend and bought my first Ford a XR50 only a couple of months ago. The reason I bought is were
1) I hate Holden (never owned one though)
2) Needed a bigger car
3) Always been a 'Ford person'
4) I think the FG looks awesome.
5) Price was right too.

So far the Ford dealership has been fantastic (had a couple of issues) and I didn't even buy the car from them. Reading bad posts about dealerships is nothing new. Every car make gets them.

I came from owning Subaru's for the last 14 years and prior to that owning a number of Hyundais for 9 years. (there are lots of bad dealership posts from Subaru owners.)

I can't understand either why the Commodore outsells the Falcon. I do think Holden markets better.

[anto]

I bought a new FG for the Mrs runabout and will be buying another Falcon next time round when I need to update too, hopefully a GT or XR8 if they ever release one. The wife and 2 two kids love it and need the space and security when visiting friends out in the country. Tried a mazda 6 for her for 6 months before that, wont be making that mistake again !
My sister in law has a Mazda 3 with one child,...theyre a decnt car but she is now looking at either a Falcon or Como for more space...

Falcon is losing sales to larger cars (4wd) and smaller cars for people that dont need the space. Also Your Hyundais, cruze and the like are so damn cheap, I mean they out sell anything ford has in the same size due to price ....right ? In the end for most people it comes down to that...whats cheapest.

[onfire]

I tell you the reason why I'll probably buy a large sedan again.

I'll buy it in the second hand market.

Currently I drive a BA XR6. As a second hand vehicle you're talking decent value for money. Cheap as chips to buy, fully optioned, enough power to make it fun to drive, and decent handling and ride to match.

Resale is crap. Which is great, if you're looking for a bargain that you'll drive for a number of years without worry about value or trade-in.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by z80

Forget the 97 airbags and fancy ESP...all that goes out the window when someone T bones you and you have no time to react.

I might post up some smashed XR5/RS's that people have survived in. The Airbags and the way the car is designed to crash do help. Need to get with the times, new small cars are very safe.

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

But unfortunately most people dont think like us. They are penny pinchers at the expense of safety. For a couple of bucks a week.

Penny pinching? I could have bought an FG XR6 for the same money i paid for my XR5 and its not like my XR5 is flash on fuel. I never bought it to save money

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ZDHLANE

2. Advertising.

The advertising is woeful!. It has been discussed in other threads and it has too be a big part of it.
Despite financial difficulties, Holden has kept promoting what they think is a great Aussie product.
Funny, as much as I don't like the cars when i think of car adds, i tend to think Holden over anything else! (
Face it. Holdens advertising is still agresssive.

how many ads for mazda 3 did you see? or any of the other cars that make up the top 10? when was the last time you bought something because you saw it in a tv ad?

Originally Posted by jixel 78

I`d have bought a Ford wagon, I only had one kid, the money was in the bank, but if they werent all XT bangers with no fast glass in the rear, no dual zone A/C no six stacker premium sound, no rims, no leather,no sports suspension(like AU SR but I didnt want an old stinker AU)leaf spring clanger back end, no nothing! The following Falcon wagon has around here is a bit silly when you can get a Terry,at least they have all the gear. But I cant stand the high rider lookit me SUV. They really are w@nk packs. The depreciacion on my Fairmont is such that I`d rather spend the money on my house or the kids holidays, and drive it into the dirt.Because by the time I trade it on a Commodore, they`ll give me nothing for it, no matter how `enthusiastically` well I cared for it. And theres the rub.

mondeo wagon?

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by prydey

mondeo wagon?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we're talking Australian manufactured. I couldn't care less if Mondeo, Focus, Fiesta sell 5000 each per month. That does nothing for Ford of Australia's manufacturing arm.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we're talking Australian manufactured. I couldn't care less if Mondeo, Focus, Fiesta sell 5000 each per month. That does nothing for Ford of Australia's manufacturing arm.

i'm not 100% sure how the ford operate, but i believe you could be wrong. if the local arm isn't making profit but the imports are, then they can prop up the local arm on the back of the imports. its all one company. otherwise how does commodore survive? do you consider cruze to be local content? if so, then camry/aurion would be considered local content and their sales are abissmal and yet toyota can survive here, largely on their import sales.

whilst i agree it is ideal to have the local arm profitable (ford have recently said it is sustainable short term at the current levels), it isn't the end of the world and the reason for the increasing number of imports is that ford have realised the falcon can no longer be a 'one size fits all' car. to try to have a falcon deriviative in 4-5 different areas is too expensive. thats why LWB and wagon are gone and ute isn't far behind.

if you want a toyota wagon, you buy a kluger, or rav4 etc. if you want a toyota ute, you buy a hilux.

this is the road ford is taking.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by z80

The thing that puts me off buying a new Falcon is all the trouble people seem to have with after sales support.

Petrol is about the cheapest thing you put in a car unless you are a taxi.
So who cares if it uses a 5 litres ($7.50) a week more fuel than a smaller hatch like a Focus?

I just don't think any little hatch is as safe as a full sized, long bonnet car like a falcon or commodore.

Forget the 97 airbags and fancy ESP...all that goes out the window when someone T bones you and you have no time to react.

A Focus over a Falcon?......nah.....

A Mazda 3 or 6 over a Falcon?....nah...

I'll save my misery time in a wheel chair for when I go in the aged care nursing home, not just to save 7 bucks a week in fuel and get crippled in a small buzz box.

How would I feel having a crash in a Mazda 3 with all the family onboard?



EEEEEEk!

wouldn't it be closer to $15.00 a week?

in my case $215 a week extra.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Also Ford should with tail between legs dump the funny names like g6, g6et, g6eftpyu and whatever else and bring back fairmont and fairmont ghia even fairlane and LTD. Watch all the buyers come out if the woods. Offer a falcon xt with a v8 and steal all the ss sales.

No extra people will buy the car because it's called a fairmont. It's old and tired. Move on it has had no effect whatsoever on sales.

And nobody bought the XT with a v8 when it was offered, whats different now??