The Death of QANTAS - Page 5

gtfpv · 29-10-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troystanton78

We all must realise it wasn't a 5mil payrise, i believe it was a rise taking his pay upto 5mil, most of which is incentives and performance based, he also stated that the board wll not be paid whilst the airline is grounded,(leading by example) i think we have to look at the situation as a whole, if job sec was guaranteed for ever and payrises each year then qantas may as well shut up shop now, it is just not sustainable, some jobs must be outsourced or qantas is history, air fares have been getting cheaper as competition grows, something must give

THAT REALLY is the sad reality i guess . people should really be voting or negotiating for a decent redundnacy package so they can get out of the industry , and if all fails just leave the industry and allow those who are lesser skil... errrr willing to work for less come in . its like they say pay a bloke what his worht if you want him , if you want less let him go. . .

troystanton78 · 29-10-2011, 10:22 PM

Is it really greedy to accept what a company is willing to pay you, i just got a decent increase does that make me greedy , or is it greedy to always expect more than what you get

**SSD-85** · 29-10-2011, 10:23 PM

All in all, I believe Henry Ford said it best;

"An honest days work for an honest days pay."

Deviate from that mantra too much, and you get what we are seeing today. On both sides of the fence.

egoxr6 · 29-10-2011, 10:23 PM

I am a bit biased here being a delegate for the ASU - local govt. However, to have the board approve a 2.2 millon pay 'rise' whilst this was going on is astounding. Even more so, to then shut the business down. Middle class is being absorbed into lower. People are getting pushed further and further to the bread line. No one person is worth the money these CEO's are being paid. Even if staff cave now and are effectively 'starved' to return, his days as CEO are numbered. Otherwise, the company will slowly bleed to death.

**Silver Ghia** · 29-10-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz (Page 1)

better than the irish airline with the race tape holding the windscreen in place..
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Rya...132432618.html

Quite irrelevant to this thread but just to get the record straight, the windscreen is held in structurally by a row of bolts at quite close pitch around its perimeter. So there are lots of bolts holding it in. The tape (I guess it was aluminium foil 'speed tape') would have been there just to protect sealant that may not have been fully cured, but seems not to have been applied properly if it was coming off. Hi-speed tape sticks like the proverbial when stuck down properly.

Usual media again not knowing anything about what they are talking about.

**Full Noise** · 29-10-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

... and the laughable thing is that australia's closest neighbours are all earning 2-5% of those huge wages . . . and yet the fault lies with the people from those countries willing to work for peanuts.

What’s the medium house price in those countries?
What’s the tax rate in those countries?
What are the interest rates in those countries?
What’s the cost of electricity in those countries?
What’s the cost of water in those countries?
What’s the cost of gas in those countries?
What’s the cost of maintaining a motor vehicle in those countries?
What’s the cost of educating children in those countries?
What’s the cost of maintaining your health in those countries?
What’s the cost of basic foodstuffs in those countries?

troystanton78 · 29-10-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egoxr6

Otherwise, the company will slowly bleed to death.

It will be a quick death if he crumbles to all their demands, and they will all be out of work

**DJR-351** · 29-10-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troystanton78

It will be a quick death if he crumbles to all their demands, and they will all be out of work

What are their demands......??

gtfpv · 29-10-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troystanton78

It will be a quick death if he crumbles to all their demands, and they will all be out of work

i agree , people seem to demand too much these days . i reckon casual workers simply shouldn't expect to be able to buy a home , after all they are casual right . i hope he doesn't cave to their demands !!

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troystanton78

It will be a quick death if he crumbles to all their demands, and they will all be out of work

What i find completely incomprehensible is total lack of understanding and care about the impact these demands will have on the very viability of the business they're demanding them from.. Surely they're not that simple...??

AC · 29-10-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troystanton78

It will be a quick death if he crumbles to all their demands, and they will all be out of work

Give an inch, they'll take a mile...

WAXBFAR · 29-10-2011, 10:37 PM

It is simple a right that both parties have.
Employees under fair work act (though union) can withdraw their labor,
and,
Employer can lock out their employees.
Both disrupt the clientele evenly.

troystanton78 · 29-10-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

What are their demands......??

just a couple,
job security guaranteed
no outsourcing to overseas
767 short haul pilots want a rise to that of a long haul A380 pilot (approx 30thou p/a)
just those 3 are unsustainable

gtfpv · 29-10-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

What i find completely incomprehensible is total lack of understanding and care about the impact these demands will have on the very viability of the business they're demanding them from.. Surely they're not that simple...??

finally someone who is looking at the board of directors !!!! i too thought it was crazy giving absorberant pay rises and then voting to lock the gates and stop the planes . completely agree .

earlybird · 29-10-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

What if your only competitor already operates under the same cost and outsourcing blueprint Qantas is trying to tap into to remain competitive?
Maybe we should blame Virgin customers for this.

Its inevitable that the jobs will go offshore. Your post is valid and true.

My point is we should stop playing the blame game and and keep the Aussie spirit alive by supporting each other by not letting the agro ferment in our lucky country.

pottery beige · 29-10-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troystanton78

just a couple,
job security guaranteed
no outsourcing to overseas
767 short haul pilots want a rise to that of a long haul A380 pilot (approx 30thou p/a)
just those 3 are unsustainable

so basically job for life.....

quickest path to a fat lazy workforce full of sooks!!!

troystanton78 · 29-10-2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

finally someone who is looking at the board of directors !!!! i too thought it was crazy giving absorberant pay rises and then voting to lock the gates and stop the planes . completely agree .

i think you've misunderstood what amg is saying there

Jim Goose · 29-10-2011, 10:43 PM

A job isnt a birthright??? Really?

Spoken like a true CEO.....

The United Nations would disagree with you there.... read the Bill of Human Rights.

But its funny, how people go one about their "right" to drive a car... their right to hoon, own a gun, choose to drink drive... but no right to have a job???

gtfpv · 29-10-2011, 10:43 PM

with me it comes down to this AUSTRALIAN SAFETY !
AUSTRALIAN CONDITIONS!
AUSTRALIAN WAGES !
looks like i'll be driving to my next interstate holiday! and staying on home soil .

flappist · 29-10-2011, 10:44 PM

Keep it civil guys

troystanton78 · 29-10-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

so basically job for life.....

quickest path to a fat lazy workforce full of sooks!!!

well said

spebgtsprint · 29-10-2011, 10:46 PM

Wow, this is a great debate! We are all obviously Australian through and through and thats why we are passionately debating this subject so close to a true blue Aussies heart............

I love everything Australian and am proud when I'm overseas seeing a QANTAS plane somewhere, and have even had a couple of conversations with overseas passengers on how wonderful QANTAS flight safety record is compared to other overseas carriers etc. "Being a proud Aussie..."

But whenever I fly interstate within Australia, I never fly with QANTAS simply because they are 99.9% always too bloody expensive than anyone else! I'm not too proud of that fact, but it's true.

I don't know all the true goings on here (never believe half what the media tells you), but for Australias international reputation and countless affected true blue workers and passengers stranded, I hope these plonkers can all get together ASAP and work things out - for Australias sake.

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

A job isnt a birthright??? Really?

Spoken like a true CEO.....

The United Nations would disagree with you there.... read the Bill of Human Rights.

But its funny, how people go one about their "right" to drive a car... their right to hoon, own a gun, choose to drink drive... but no right to have a job???

Having a job is not a birth right, the opportunity to attain, be considered or EARN a job is... MASSIVE difference.

Same as guns, car licence etc, you can apply, but there's no guarantees you'll qualify.

egoxr6 · 29-10-2011, 10:54 PM

I believe Qantas turned 300m odd profit last FY. Hang on, that was the 'international' arm of the business. So, the domestic arm paying Australian workers must now compete with other, um, skilled workers overseas. Don't worry though, as long as you're a shareholder, it will be sweet. You won't have a job anymore but ride them shares baby.

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egoxr6

I believe Qantas turned 300m odd profit last FY. Hang on, that was the 'international' arm of the business. So, the domestic arm paying Australian workers must now compete with other, um, skilled workers overseas. Don't worry though, as long as you're a shareholder, it will be sweet. You won't have a job anymore but ride them shares baby.

What was the ROFE %?????

troystanton78 · 29-10-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i'm fat because i drink too much beer thankyou very much...

damn straight

Jim Goose · 29-10-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Having a job is not a birth right, the opportunity to attain, be considered or EARN a job is... MASSIVE difference.

Same as guns, car licence etc, you can apply, but there's no guarantees you'll qualify.

We are signatory to the UN BILL OF HUMAN RIGHTS:

IT IS MY BIRTHRIGHT TO HAVE A JOB.... as well as anyone elses...

Wake up to yourself...

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

We are signatory to the UN BILL OF HUMAN RIGHTS:

IT IS MY BIRTHRIGHT TO HAVE A JOB.... as well as anyone elses...

Wake up to yourself...

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

You're completely miss interpreting these, that effectively said exactly what i did...

"right to work" means right to be considered for a job....

flappist · 29-10-2011, 11:10 PM

The slanging match STOPS NOW or you will all get holidays

FgNewbie · 29-10-2011, 11:12 PM

I suggest anyone wanting to lay claim to birthright entitlements should refer to their parents.

At this rate Qantas will be in good company.... TAA, Australian Airlines, Ansett.

I feel for anyone caught in this mess, especially the passengers.