The drug "Ice"

[Focusfan]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

How do they afford to go from $2 sticks of glue to a $400 a gram habit? It's usually people that can afford it to start with that get addicted not glue sniffers. Then they run out of money and ***** hits the fan, if they haven't already overdosed or gone to jail.

They don't go from $2 habit to $400 gram one straight away.
Starting point is a shared joint in the park, next as they have little money they go to glue or petrol.
Then a lot end up sick or brain dead from the poisons in the fuel or glue. The ones that manage to get past these after a while
start to hunger for the high again but don't want to go back to the poisons knowing what happened to their friends.
Then they start to steel to get money for the more expensive drugs working their way up with more robberies for more drugs.
Again a large number are funded by parents who just give the kids money to get them out of their hair
not knowing what they are using the money for. Some sell everything to get funds for the habit and end up on the streets.
Not all are $2 to $400 over night. Hope this clears it up as to what I am saying. Nothing to do with race or religion overall.

[Focusfan]

Originally Posted by trublu

These two parts of your statement contradicts each other, I don't see how different cultures here in Australia have better kids disciplined as I've seen plenty just as bad.

Agree maybe not 100% accurate but it is an accurate statement in a lot of cases. Also a lot of cases are simply teens that have
no self control, maybe due to a condition and maybe due to eating foods that they should not. A lot of various reasons.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by superyob

GasOlane, could you please explain your objection to Focusfan's viewpoint?

About 15 years ago our daughter (We'll call her Mary) had a little Heroin habit (thats like saying someone is a little bit pregnant) so we had Mary's Daughter (our Granddaughter) live with us for the next 13years.

After managing not to OD for 10 years Mary got off it. In the next 5 years she managed to hold down 2 jobs, get a 'partner' (live in boyfriend and his son) Our Granddaughter moved back with her. She also 2 cars and was thinking of starting her own cleaning business.

About 7 months ago Mary fell off the Wagon and onto Ice, Since then she has no Boyfriend, no cars and has to move from the 5 bedroom place they leased, oh, and our (now 17) Granddaughter moved back in with us as Mary was not treating her very nice, she now has an AVO (DVO) out on Mum.

We also have a Son 2 years older than Mary, he's living in Qld, has a good job and having a great time with life in general.

Both these kids were brought up exactly the same, lots of attention, went to private high schools, came on holidays with us and we all had a ball at theme parks.

The problem was the people they hung around with, call it peer pressure if you like. This is something almost every parent will not be able to control, you cant tell your kids who to be friends with.

It only takes one ratbag (who seems to them to really really cool) to introduce them to the 'wrong crowd'.

If there is anything good to come about this it's that our Granddaughter knows first hand what this **** can do, and wants nothing to do with any drugs or anyone that even thinks they are 'cool'.

The latest on Mary is that we think she's coming good (again). She moving away from her circle of 'friends' here.

This will be a good thing, as we're getting quite tired of the abusive 3am phone calls, the threats to drive her car into my Wife's shop window and our granddaughter's boyfriend's car will now be safe.
(she rammed it 3 weeks ago, fortunately a Mitsubishi lancer was no match for an AU 1 tonner )

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Focusfan

They don't go from $2 habit to $400 gram one straight away.
Starting point is a shared joint in the park, next as they have little money they go to glue or petrol.
Then a lot end up sick or brain dead from the poisons in the fuel or glue. The ones that manage to get past these after a while
start to hunger for the high again but don't want to go back to the poisons knowing what happened to their friends.
Then they start to steel to get money for the more expensive drugs working their way up with more robberies for more drugs.
Again a large number are funded by parents who just give the kids money to get them out of their hair
not knowing what they are using the money for. Some sell everything to get funds for the habit and end up on the streets.
Not all are $2 to $400 over night. Hope this clears it up as to what I am saying. Nothing to do with race or religion overall.

Allot of current affairs shows portray it like that but I've never really seen people progress like that at all. The effects are all very different so it's not like ones just a stronger version of the other. My friends and I experimented allot when we were younger but none of us felt the need to keep upping the ante. Like the majority of people we just lost interest or grew out of it.

This notion of everyone progressing to harder and harder stuff is very misleading and doesn't really help the problem. It's like saying every kid that has a drink will become an alcoholic and then just washing your hands of it. Some drugs are instant chemical addiction whether you like it or not, others are mind over matter and some have no addictive properties at all.

[iCat]

there's not much you can do to educate people to steer clear of drugs, any sort. I guess you can give all the information and education you like: what they do with that when confronted by peer pressure is another matter entirely. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink blah blah.

I'd like to see the law come down on suppliers, big and small, like an absolute ton of bricks. I'd like to see even the deadbeat who sells a couple of tablets of something unidentifiable paraded in court and shoved away for a long time. I'd like to see the big supplier hung.

Because the threat of lengthy incarceration or death will be a deterrant to many. Not all, but many. And that means many less out there.

[Dash_XR]

Agreed but then someone else will just take their spot. It's supply and demand, you have to get rid of the demand.

[damo76]

I don't know why people bring pot into this, i used to smoke pot heavily in my teen years and early 20's and so did my friends. It never leaded me to harder drugs and i have never gone mental over it.
Try driving stoned, you slow down 1km from the traffic lights lol, 60kmh feels like your doing 110.
Well none of us smoke it now as i think life responsibilities and hand brakes have stopped us.
i say if you have problems with pot and go onto harder drugs like ice you are week and have other issues.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

About 15 years ago our daughter (We'll call her Mary) had a little Heroin habit (thats like saying someone is a little bit pregnant) so we had Mary's Daughter (our Granddaughter) live with us for the next 13years.

After managing not to OD for 10 years Mary got off it. In the next 5 years she managed to hold down 2 jobs, get a 'partner' (live in boyfriend and his son) Our Granddaughter moved back with her. She also 2 cars and was thinking of starting her own cleaning business.

About 7 months ago Mary fell off the Wagon and onto Ice, Since then she has no Boyfriend, no cars and has to move from the 5 bedroom place they leased, oh, and our (now 17) Granddaughter moved back in with us as Mary was not treating her very nice, she now has an AVO (DVO) out on Mum.

We also have a Son 2 years older than Mary, he's living in Qld, has a good job and having a great time with life in general.

Both these kids were brought up exactly the same, lots of attention, went to private high schools, came on holidays with us and we all had a ball at theme parks.

The problem was the people they hung around with, call it peer pressure if you like. This is something almost every parent will not be able to control, you cant tell your kids who to be friends with.

It only takes one ratbag (who seems to them to really really cool) to introduce them to the 'wrong crowd'.

If there is anything good to come about this it's that our Granddaughter knows first hand what this **** can do, and wants nothing to do with any drugs or anyone that even thinks they are 'cool'.

The latest on Mary is that we think she's coming good (again). She moving away from her circle of 'friends' here.

This will be a good thing, as we're getting quite tired of the abusive 3am phone calls, the threats to drive her car into my Wife's shop window and our granddaughter's boyfriend's car will now be safe.
(she rammed it 3 weeks ago, fortunately a Mitsubishi lancer was no match for an AU 1 tonner )

I hope everything works out for 'Mary' mate, and you get your daughter back.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

About 15 years ago our daughter (We'll call her Mary) had a little Heroin habit (thats like saying someone is a little bit pregnant) so we had Mary's Daughter (our Granddaughter) live with us for the next 13years.

After managing not to OD for 10 years Mary got off it. In the next 5 years she managed to hold down 2 jobs, get a 'partner' (live in boyfriend and his son) Our Granddaughter moved back with her. She also 2 cars and was thinking of starting her own cleaning business.

About 7 months ago Mary fell off the Wagon and onto Ice, Since then she has no Boyfriend, no cars and has to move from the 5 bedroom place they leased, oh, and our (now 17) Granddaughter moved back in with us as Mary was not treating her very nice, she now has an AVO (DVO) out on Mum.

We also have a Son 2 years older than Mary, he's living in Qld, has a good job and having a great time with life in general.

Both these kids were brought up exactly the same, lots of attention, went to private high schools, came on holidays with us and we all had a ball at theme parks.

The problem was the people they hung around with, call it peer pressure if you like. This is something almost every parent will not be able to control, you cant tell your kids who to be friends with.

It only takes one ratbag (who seems to them to really really cool) to introduce them to the 'wrong crowd'.

If there is anything good to come about this it's that our Granddaughter knows first hand what this **** can do, and wants nothing to do with any drugs or anyone that even thinks they are 'cool'.

The latest on Mary is that we think she's coming good (again). She moving away from her circle of 'friends' here.

This will be a good thing, as we're getting quite tired of the abusive 3am phone calls, the threats to drive her car into my Wife's shop window and our granddaughter's boyfriend's car will now be safe.
(she rammed it 3 weeks ago, fortunately a Mitsubishi lancer was no match for an AU 1 tonner )

Thanks for sharing that GasOlane. I was not expecting such a personal and detailed reply. I hope 'Mary' gets better...

[pottery beige]

Brilliant post gaso, it will tear you apart, you just have to be there when they've had enough

I made time and put a roof over a family members head, family was wtf you doing??

Uncle was in tears thanking me - not a problem uncle

I was FIFO at the time, yea, it may have been different if I was there at the time to support the cuzz

Fell off the rails, I still love her dearly, from last catch ups, all is good now though

Just be there for them when no one else will

[Focusfan]

Sorry to hear that story Gas, I did not insinuate that all habits were formed same way. I was just referring to my knowledge and experiences
in the past. It was not intended to be everybody's story. Also hope family can get her back from the edge. Is a bad place to be.

[Bluehoon]

I know someone special at the moment who has an ice addiction.
On one hand they want the normal life and when they're off it all is good.
Then they want the party life, or something happens and the trigger flips in the head and hit it hard which I don't agree with.

Sad part is the party life is creeping in, hitting crystal to stay awake through work and daily life. Chasing crack pipes on Wednesday afternoons...

Slowly I watch as good people walk away, the house gets run down and work is suffering.
As much as I have the feelings to be there for them, how do you handle the hot and cold, off and on routine..? Then the rest of the behaviour.
It hurts and I'll have to be there to a point, though half of me wants to walk as well.

This ice is scary, really scary. The emotional toll is takes on everyone around it is phenominal.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If Ice usage continues to grow at the rate it is, I guess by 2050 many people will be zombies if they continue to abuse it, theres your zombie apocalypse for you.

Some regions around Melbourne have an issue with needles being left everywhere in public toilets, the common sense thing to do would have needle dispensary boxes located in toilets for people to dispose of their needles into if they are going to shoot up in public toilets rather than leave them on the floor.

But it "looks bad", so the local councils would rather ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist then create a needle disposal policy and deal with the problem.

You probably won't stop people injecting in the toilets, but you can stop the majority of needles from being left on the floor through a simple measure, so why not try it?

Would you rather walk into the toilet and see a needle on the floor, or a needle box on the wall? Ideally you wouldn't want to see either but we live in the real world not the fantasy one so theres going to be needles in the toilet, its just where it is.

That is the problem we have, people would rather ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist because "it looks bad" rather than do the hard work, acknowledge it and find a solution to the problem. I've come across a few problems in life where it seems we've spent more time and effort in an attempt to conceal and hide something rather than look at the root cause of the problem and fix it.

Once we've got the needle box and the needles are inside, not on the floor, then we start working on how we stop people injecting in the first place as our end goal.

In melb north, the druggies dont even bother hitting up in the public toilets, you find needles in suburbia in the gutter , on the footpath, these dudes/dudetts do it anywhere..... no copulation given.

[damo76]

I know it would be a horrible thing to have a loved one go through ice addiction and you have my sympathy but how do people start on ice. I mean people know its an extremely dangerous drug so why take it? just stay away from it.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

How do they afford to go from $2 sticks of glue to a $400 a gram habit? It's usually people that can afford it to start with that get addicted not glue sniffers. Then they run out of money and ***** hits the fan, if they haven't already overdosed or gone to jail.

did you see the news last night or the night before ? a young girl distracts and 86 year old , a bloke comes from the side and elbows him in the head and kicks him in the head while hes down and then the pair off them rob the poor old fella, no doubt there are other criminal methods, but you see these scumbags picking easy targets probably for drugs on a daily basis.

[Dash_XR]

Yeah I did, people are like that without drugs too. You see drunks bash people like that all the time.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by damo76

I know it would be a horrible thing to have a loved one go through ice addiction and you have my sympathy but how do people start on ice. I mean people know its an extremely dangerous drug so why take it? just stay away from it.

Why do people smoke?
Why do people drink alcohol?
Why do people take drugs?

Simple answer is because they want to for various reasons, this has been happening through out worlds history & will never go away.

A sad fact of life.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mik

In melb north, the druggies dont even bother hitting up in the public toilets, you find needles in suburbia in the gutter , on the footpath, these dudes/dudetts do it anywhere..... no copulation given.

You aren't in Sunbury by any chance? Can't say I've noticed any needles lying about but I'm only usually hanging about Evans Street.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You aren't in Sunbury by any chance? Can't say I've noticed any needles lying about but I'm only usually hanging about Evans Street.

nah , reservoir, resa is a fairly big suburb , it has the full gamit of housing from well to do, to the lower class area/s .... or working mans area as i heard it described from a bloke that was trying to be polite , no offence to anyone else living in the area.

[mik]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

About 15 years ago our daughter (We'll call her Mary) had a little Heroin habit (thats like saying someone is a little bit pregnant) so we had Mary's Daughter (our Granddaughter) live with us for the next 13years.

After managing not to OD for 10 years Mary got off it. In the next 5 years she managed to hold down 2 jobs, get a 'partner' (live in boyfriend and his son) Our Granddaughter moved back with her. She also 2 cars and was thinking of starting her own cleaning business.

About 7 months ago Mary fell off the Wagon and onto Ice, Since then she has no Boyfriend, no cars and has to move from the 5 bedroom place they leased, oh, and our (now 17) Granddaughter moved back in with us as Mary was not treating her very nice, she now has an AVO (DVO) out on Mum.

We also have a Son 2 years older than Mary, he's living in Qld, has a good job and having a great time with life in general.

Both these kids were brought up exactly the same, lots of attention, went to private high schools, came on holidays with us and we all had a ball at theme parks.

The problem was the people they hung around with, call it peer pressure if you like. This is something almost every parent will not be able to control, you cant tell your kids who to be friends with.

It only takes one ratbag (who seems to them to really really cool) to introduce them to the 'wrong crowd'.

If there is anything good to come about this it's that our Granddaughter knows first hand what this **** can do, and wants nothing to do with any drugs or anyone that even thinks they are 'cool'.

The latest on Mary is that we think she's coming good (again). She moving away from her circle of 'friends' here.

This will be a good thing, as we're getting quite tired of the abusive 3am phone calls, the threats to drive her car into my Wife's shop window and our granddaughter's boyfriend's car will now be safe.
(she rammed it 3 weeks ago, fortunately a Mitsubishi lancer was no match for an AU 1 tonner )

Sorry to hear that mate, i don't think there's any magic cure for what ails people afflicted with drug disease, and no single cause is responsible, most of my mates and myself come from broken families, some violent and broken, and one way or another and as sure as the sun rises every day we found ourselves sticking together and getting up to mischief together,
over a period of time i lost one mate to drugs, another mate ended up indirectly a paraplegic due to drugs, and i can think of a couple of other instances , but no doubt most of us has been effected in one way or another by drugs directly or indirectly, hopefully things turn around for your daughter.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mik

nah , reservoir, resa is a fairly big suburb , it has the full gamit of housing from well to do, to the lower class area/s .... or working mans area as i heard it described from a bloke that was trying to be polite , no offence to anyone else living in the area.

I spent a fair bit of time in Plenty Rd where my grandparents used to live when I was growing up in the 1990s, between Tyler St and Kinkora Rd on Plenty Rd, right opposite the brake shop

Big change in demographics too from what I can remember back then.

[BENT_8]

I don't really give a **** for the scum bags who get off on the ****, its the damage they do to good people in their quest for the next high that ****** me off.

I met my Wife and her family when I moved out of home and went to work in a small country town at 15.
Her parents were the most hard working people you ever met. Her father worked for the local Council for 35 years, her mother worked in the local Post Office for 20yrs. They both cleaned the local area School after hours and ran a catering business on weekends catering for weddings etc.

I met the family through their Son. At the time he was an unemployed 20yo with a Marijuana addiction.
Being 15, away from the watchful eye of my parents it wasn't long (read half an hour) before I fronted up for my first dabble.
That initial buzz came in the form of a seriously well packed bucket bong of leaf.
Took the lot, 15 year old lungs an all...
I spent the next half an hour on hands and knees barking on the floor just trying to maintain some level of oxygen intake.
Oh, those were the days and it could have led to anything really.

Standing around the bucket that day were 5 young men, of those five, 3 spent most of the next 20 years in jail, one for killing his own mother for drug money.
The remaining 2, my Brother inlaw and myself went in different directions.
For me, Pot was good enough and as embarrassing as it is to say, I spent much of the next 23 years of my life smoking it, a cone here, a cone there.
For my BIL it was never enough, not long after my first cone I found him sniffing a dried white powder from a freezer bag and I freaked out.

From there it only got worse, the habit grew and the poison of choice got harder. Speed, Meth, you name it he's been on it
By the time he was 25 he was beyond help and it was starting to take its toll on everyone around him.
My Inlaws retired from their 9-5 jobs and bought a small takeaway business, it wasn't long before his hand was in the cash register.

Within 8 years he had run them broke, the stories he used to extort money from His Mother would make you sick.
Claiming bikies were going to kill him, then they were going to kill them.
Then he threatened to make false accusations of child molestation.
He held his own mother up for the weekends takings, $5k, then went about partying up right in front of her with the proceeds.
He had their house broken into, the shop as well.

In the end those hard working people who had given their children everything they needed were left with nothing and I had to stand by and watch it all.
If I told my FIL what I knew and had seen he would drop dead on the spot I have no doubt.

Today they have next to nothing to show for 50 years of hard work.
They lost their house after mortgaging it to keep the business afloat as long as they could.
The BF Falcon they tow their only real possession with, a 17' van, was financed by us.
They live in rental accommodation and both had returned to 9-5 jobs to survive.
The FIL is 74 and now retired again, the MIL 64 and about to retire.
They will have a small super payout coming to them, $30k, and then its the pension for their remaining days.

Looking back its hard to believe how bad it got and how far that family fell.

Its a terrible thing to say, and I will be honest and admit that I have shared this thought with my Wife, but I would give anything for him to have overdosed or found some other way to see himself off before it all got out of hand.
So sad to watch it all unravel.

[iCat]

there's a couple of very extraordinary stories told in this thread......

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by iCat

there's a couple of very extraordinary stories told in this thread......

and there will be

drug addiction is much n much any sort of illness, when your loved ones are sick it will tear you apart

when they are off it, its just like remission

meanwhile youre just waiting for that slippery ride through hell again

sucks

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by iCat

there's a couple of very extraordinary stories told in this thread......

Only extraordinary if you don't know anyone involved with drug addiction.

[iCat]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Only extraordinary if you don't know anyone involved with drug addiction.

Actually I meant that they were very personal stories that people chose to share.

[commodorenutt]

Just goes to show the far reaching consequences on society. Almost everyone you talk to would know of someone who has had a loved one struggling with addiction.

I can't imagine what it would be like trying to deal with someone on ice/meth. I've only experienced people on heroin, cocaine, and cannibis, and none were easy to deal with, but from what I've read & heard, Ice is far worse for aggression.


A friend of mine adopted 2 boys who were born to a heroin addict. Older boy was almost 1, and the younger was a newborn. Both were born as addicts.

They went through countless visits to various specialists, numerous operations to correct limb/hands/feet deformities caused by drugs during the pregnancies, and in the early days, many, many nights nursing them through "withdrawal" symptoms. The financial drain was enormous, and the stress got to my mate - he passed away at a young age from a stress-induced heart attack.

The kids are now in their early 20s and both are doing great in their work & study. All the love & care from their adoptive parents, and other family members who stepped in when my mate passed, gave these kids another chance at life. They won't go near drugs. But their story still falls on deaf ears when they try to discourage their mates from dabbling in drugs.

[tut0r]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

The kids are now in their early 20s and both are doing great in their work & study. All the love & care from their adoptive parents, and other family members who stepped in when my mate passed, gave these kids another chance at life. They won't go near drugs. But their story still falls on deaf ears when they try to discourage their mates from dabbling in drugs.

One of my old best mates is a big user of drugs now days, although mostly psychedelics he had a pretty ****** up bringing. By age 18 he was a qualified carpet layer earning from 1 - 3k a week working on his own, doing great. He smoked pot everyday, few in the morning then when he got home from work, but that turned into few in the morning, few at work, few at night.

Then sometimes to many in the morning he wouldn't go to work, then started partying more and more. He always did acid and mushies but still held a job, now hes on this whole hippy experience of everyone should share the world and give to each other(although he still takes from the government). All the while he doesn't work now, parties, takes numerous drugs and does absolutely nothing because everyone else is wrong.

Still a good mate at heart but I couldn't deal with his BS anymore and barely see him, I know others who had the same life style that came out fine, have families, houses and full time jobs.

But trying to discourage young teens from doing things they are not supposed to only makes them want to do it more. I dabbled in party drugs and I know I was one of the lucky ones who didn't get that 'dud pill' that sent me into cardiac arrest or things much much worse.

Awareness is a big key factor now days and even when the drug ads used to come on when I was a teen all I could think of was 'what BS this is'. Hell some of them I still think they are fear mongering more than awareness.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by iCat

Actually I meant that they were very personal stories that people chose to share.

Quite often the hardest part of sharing ones experiences is clicking the send button, written and deleted more than I've posted.

A lot of what I wrote is embarrassing and brings out a multitude of feelings, not pleasant ones I can tell you, but it is what it is. Drugs will tear you apart, destroy family apart and leave you broken if you don't have the strength to stop it.
When threads like this come up I don't care for one minute to share my experiences because it hits you between the eyes with reality.
Not some juiced up agenda driven ACA/TT version, I've seen the reality of these subjects first hand and if what I have to offer makes one person stop and consider the people around them, then its worth it.

[Pub247]

I see a lot of blame on drugs in this thread and not alot on people. Alot of stories start out with pot and it seems people blame it for leading people down an ugly road.


Thats total bull****. i know better than most on here about it.

I smoked pot everyday for about 5 years i held down a full time job didnt get arrested once. Hell on the weekend id go out and party take some pills couple of lines.

I never tempted to touch ice or herion or go a near a needle even when i was around people like that. Hell i loved getting stoned i still do.

But i don't do that anymore because i choose not to. I can say i was addicted but i chose to stop and i did. Same as i done with Cigarettes recently.

I believe it's all in the mind and its will power. I think anyone can quit or avoid temptation they just got to be strong enough, some people are just too weak to do it.

I have no sympathy for drug addicts only for those whose life they ruin in the process