VFACTS April 2024

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Each time I read about American I-6 engines, it makes me realise just how fantastic the Barra six was.

I wonder if Holden had it’s time over whether it would have evolved its I-6 the same way…
The painful cost of Nissan I-6 that nearly broke them and then settling for Buick V6…yikes….
I guess the Alloytec won back a lot of buyers but still seems like the long way around…
Still, the Alloytec probably won back a lot of lost ground…

Do you mean the Ecotec? The Alloytec had the Holden service department telling my Dad not to upgrade his VY to a VZ as they were having so much trouble with the latter motor.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Jeep takes axe to Grand Cherokee prices

Jeep has slashed prices of its Grand Cherokee by up to $28,000 as sales of its latest generation of family SUV have continued to slump.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...herokee-prices

This illustrates just how much fat is built into car pricing in this country.

That's a reality moment right there. We had an older model GC overseas and as a new hire car it was quite nice - so checked them out and gasped at the price seeing 70's and 80s asked. Thought it would be selling in 50s to 60s. Their sales results are a pity as the design of it is really good, and it's still one of the only ways to get AWD/4x4 and a petrol 6.

Edit: if only the Americans had listened to this man

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Instead, he went to Japan...

[XR Martin]

Ecotec was a rough old nugget, but were just as indestructible as the Falcon six without the headgasket issues.

[Sprintey]

Yep a 186 was both smoother and indestructible.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Yep a 186 was both smoother and indestructible.

My parentage was not of Ford origin, but of Holden, so don't ask me how or why I landed in the blue camp. My father owned a number of Holden's, although none after I was born. He has always been adamant that the 186 was the best 6-cylinder engine they made, in particular the specific balance between capacity/ability to rev, and how they responded to modifications.

[Franco Cozzo]

I got love for the Ecotec/Buick V6, thats the best modern-era GM 6 cylinder ever.

Yeah its rough, but **** its indestructible, just everything about it, even electrically its good.

That era Commodore basically only do intake manifold gaskets, DFI, coil packs, CKP, ignition key slip rings and sometimes BCM.

The HF V6 'Alloytec' successor is an absolute turd from a reliability standpoint in comparison.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

My parentage was not of Ford origin, but of Holden, so don't ask me how or why I landed in the blue camp. My father owned a number of Holden's, although none after I was born. He has always been adamant that the 186 was the best 6-cylinder engine they made, in particular the specific balance between capacity/ability to rev, and how they responded to modifications.

Agree, grew up with Holden 6's and the 186 was held in higher regard than my red 173 and 202s. Apparently 202s would burn out valves out in the tropics - still quite robust though. Base 186 is a joy, a bit of torque down low (peak 1600 revs) and it can get up and go along for us Grampa Sports enthusiasts. Very tuneable, I could probably still adjust the carby and distributor in my sleep. Would love to try a 186S or 186 X2 to see what they are like.

For the more recent era I like their ecotec, but without being a mechanic I'd be stuffed trying to replace that timing sensor thingy on the side of the highway.

If I had the space:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...17227521/?Cr=0

Do you have space for that wags Franco?

[DFB FGXR6]

Will be interesting to see how the new 150-Series Prado will do against the Everest. It certainly looks the part with the vaguely retro styling and will naturally have the Toyota reputation advantage, but the price rises and the carry over ancient 2.8 boat anchor count against it.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ross-the-board

[PG2]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

My parentage was not of Ford origin, but of Holden, so don't ask me how or why I landed in the blue camp. My father owned a number of Holden's, although none after I was born. He has always been adamant that the 186 was the best 6-cylinder engine they made, in particular the specific balance between capacity/ability to rev, and how they responded to modifications.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Agree, grew up with Holden 6's and the 186 was held in higher regard than my red 173 and 202s. Apparently 202s would burn out valves out in the tropics - still quite robust though. Base 186 is a joy, a bit of torque down low (peak 1600 revs) and it can get up and go along for us Grampa Sports enthusiasts. Very tuneable, I could probably still adjust the carby and distributor in my sleep. Would love to try a 186S or 186 X2 to see what they are like.

For the more recent era I like their ecotec, but without being a mechanic I'd be stuffed trying to replace that timing sensor thingy on the side of the highway.

If I had the space:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...17227521/?Cr=0

Do you have space for that wags Franco?

Yeah, yeah, I know, way off topic...

The 186S is better than the 186 and I think I am one of those believers that the 186 is the best of the red motors.

When I was 18, I owned a LC Torana with a 202 and then I drove one with a 186S engine in it (well, that was what I was told was in it) and it deadset scared the crap out of me!

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Will be interesting to see how the new 150-Series Prado will do against the Everest. It certainly looks the part with the vaguely retro styling and will naturally have the Toyota reputation advantage, but the price rises and the carry over ancient 2.8 boat anchor count against it.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ross-the-board

Lost its #1 advantage over every other 4wd, it's 150L fuel tank.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Will be interesting to see how the new 150-Series Prado will do against the Everest. It certainly looks the part with the vaguely retro styling and will naturally have the Toyota reputation advantage, but the price rises and the carry over ancient 2.8 boat anchor count against it.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ross-the-board

The amount of Hiluxes I see with that 2.8L boat anchor blowing blue smoke around Melbourne is absolutely wild,

Those things are absolute turds, can't believe they went from ye olde 3L job to the new 2.8L and went backwards at a rate of knots with all sorts of issues.

KUN26R is peak Hilux IMO.

I reckon it'll fly off the shelves because Toyota, all their cars drive like park benches, yet they sell hand over fist.

[XR Martin]

I must say we've never had a major issue with the 2.8s, the odd one with a timing chain rattle but that's it. Probably had a few hundred come through the fleet.

The old 1KDs arnt perfect either, plenty crack pistons. Basically if you want them to last, you should replace the injectors, fuel pipes, water pump, and do an intake clean at the same time you do a timing belt.
Going rate is $7-8k.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Will be interesting to see how the new 150-Series Prado will do against the Everest. It certainly looks the part with the vaguely retro styling and will naturally have the Toyota reputation advantage, but the price rises and the carry over ancient 2.8 boat anchor count against it.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ross-the-board

It will sell very well I would say. People love Toyotas.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The amount of Hiluxes I see with that 2.8L boat anchor blowing blue smoke around Melbourne is absolutely wild,

Those things are absolute turds, can't believe they went from ye olde 3L job to the new 2.8L and went backwards at a rate of knots with all sorts of issues.

KUN26R is peak Hilux IMO.

I reckon it'll fly off the shelves because Toyota, all their cars drive like park benches, yet they sell hand over fist.

yep agreed, mine just keeps on keeping on rippa practical dual cab.
As XR Martin quotes, overall %'s rule to me, they have sold a shedload 3fold, people keep buying AND that new Prado will sell well.
You can't beat the distribution channels and the ongoing branding they have despite the flaws here people bring out, consumer and fleet land will keep buying.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by PG2

Yeah, yeah, I know, way off topic...

The 186S is better than the 186 and I think I am one of those believers that the 186 is the best of the red motors.

When I was 18, I owned a LC Torana with a 202 and then I drove one with a 186S engine in it (well, that was what I was told was in it) and it deadset scared the crap out of me!

That's the kind of story I wanted to hear! Nice one PG2.

I just loved the 186 and glide in a mate's HR Prem. So nice, the whole car, presentation, drive experience.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Will be interesting to see how the new 150-Series Prado will do against the Everest. It certainly looks the part with the vaguely retro styling and will naturally have the Toyota reputation advantage, but the price rises and the carry over ancient 2.8 boat anchor count against it.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ross-the-board

Yeah a mate has the current 2.8 novated and was really looking forward to this... until.. a day in the dunes north of Perth took the gloss off the guts of the 2.8. He subsequently worked out the new one will be heavier, and reckons it makes the one feature he doesn't like about his car, worse. So he'll wait or aim for a 300.

[Sprintey]

The Petrol hybrid of the new Prado is of interest, I wonder how they are going to do the 4x4 system.

I've followed their hybrid 4x4s with Adventure Sports TV on yt, Ryan has tested them and initially the rear e axle wouldn't apply in any meaningful way when needed, but they seem to be getting better.

Surely Prado would do the hybrid in series rather than a separate e axle at the back.

[Sprintey]

back on topic, meanwhile in dealer land:

https://www.afr.com/companies/transp...0240528-p5jh6h

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Each time I read about American I-6 engines, it makes me realise just how fantastic the Barra six was.

I wonder if Holden had it’s time over whether it would have evolved its I-6 the same way…
The painful cost of Nissan I-6 that nearly broke them and then settling for Buick V6…yikes….
I guess the Alloytec won back a lot of buyers but still seems like the long way around…
Still, the Alloytec probably won back a lot of lost ground…

Remember the Holden I6 was fully cast iron and didn't even have crossflow. A late 1985 Holden I6 was equivalent to an XB era Falcon I6, and that's why it was considered too much of a task to get it ready for unleaded. Particularly when the Nissan I6 was right there, itself a victim in the 1990s.

Only problem with the Nissan I6 was the skyrocketing Superyen (as Modern Motor dubbed it) making it not very cost effective to source, hence that glorious sounding V8 was brought out of retirement, quickly slapped together for unleaded, Trimatic was the only available transmission, and made less power and torque than a crossflow EFI Falcon six. But the ads came out thick and fast, "there's nothing like an Aussie V8 and you can only get one from Holden", they always were better at marketing than our team were.

From what I gather it cost less for GMH to make a V8, than it did for them to buy a stock standard I6 from Nissan. Hence the Buick 3800, favoured by muzzas everywhere. Many a grandma spec VN Executive was thrashed into the ground during my high school years.