The demise of manual transmissions?

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by kinksta

I forgot automatics don't have neutral....wtf?

One day I believe there will be a transmission, automatic, that can be used exactly like a manual if you want, just without the extra pedal. It is basically there at the moment.

Another decade or two of development and manuals will be special orders, if that. (IMHO)

How about the DSG boxes in the new Audi's and VW's?

They are basically sequential manual gear boxes, just with an automatic clutch (well, two of them).

[smoo]

Originally Posted by kinksta

I forgot automatics don't have neutral....wtf?

One day I believe there will be a transmission, automatic, that can be used exactly like a manual if you want, just without the extra pedal. It is basically there at the moment.

Another decade or two of development and manuals will be special orders, if that. (IMHO)

Alfa Romeo Selespeed, BMW SMG, VAG DSG are already here to name a few.
Every automated truck gearbox is the conventional manual with electric solenoids or pneumatic actuators controling the clutch and gear selectors, some even lack the synchros so aren't as complex as the conventional manuals. These are becoming more and more popular in most applications.

[dogfish]

Is Steering a car Really Driving as that is all you are doing in an Auto Isn't it.
I had the Ford sales man in 2005 saying buy the Auto it's Just like a manual.
"Really I replied, so it has a peddle on the left of the brake so you can double clutch up and down through the gears."
His response " Ughh No"
Me " You can do a horse shoe Change then"
Him " Ughh No"
Me " well it's nothing like a Bloody Manual then is it."
That's what your missing out on in Auto's double clutching, Serious Engine Braking, Horse shoe Changes, Real hill starts (with no handbrake).
Who buys an FPV for Fuel efficiency I mean seriously I want a V8 oh and it has to be efficient on Fuel.
What's the point of buying a Sports/Muscle car.
Back to 1971 "Hmmm I would love to purchase this GTHO PHIII"
"No worries sir"
" My only concern is it's Fuel Efficiency"
" oh well it's 15 litres to the 100"
" No that's no good I'm of to buy the Leyland Marina then"
The same still applies today in my book want a fuel efficient car DON'T BUY A V8.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by tweeked

So that when their cruise control sticks on, they are not one of the increasing crowd who cannot work out that putting the car in neutral and applying the brakes will help.........

How does the transmission in the car alter a person's knowledge of what to do in such a situation? If you cant work out that applying the brakes and shifting to N will slow you down then you shouldn't be on the road period!!

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by tweeked

So you already have radar cruise control, auto parking, we are not far away from taking your seat an just sitting there and the car does the work. That is not driving, you are just another passenger.

Like it or lump it, it takes more skill to drive a manual properly. Both have there place. I have an economical auto to use a pure transport. But when I want to DRIVE, i take my manual. Im not looking for luxury - i'm looking for enjoyment. I have a couch that has luxury.

Agreed!!If I wanted to be a passenger I'd sell my car and use public tranz!!

[kinksta]

Originally Posted by smoo

Alfa Romeo Selespeed, BMW SMG, VAG DSG are already here to name a few.
Every automated truck gearbox is the conventional manual with electric solenoids or pneumatic actuators controling the clutch and gear selectors, some even lack the synchros so aren't as complex as the conventional manuals. These are becoming more and more popular in most applications.

Oh ok, I was unaware thanks for the heads up.

I will change what I should have said instead of: "One day I believe there will be a transmission, automatic, that can be used exactly like a manual if you want, just without the extra pedal. It is basically there at the moment."

One day I can't wait till a falcon gets one of these VAG DSG boxes hehe

[GreenR]

well manual lovers get a hold of your most wanted car and hold on to them for your dear life that way in 20 years if manuals have become extinct you will still have something beautiful and unique that nobody else does

[xy500]

Originally Posted by kinksta

Oh ok, I was unaware thanks for the heads up.

I will change what I should have said instead of: "One day I believe there will be a transmission, automatic, that can be used exactly like a manual if you want, just without the extra pedal. It is basically there at the moment."

One day I can't wait till a falcon gets one of these VAG DSG boxes hehe

the day ford releases a base model falcon with a transmission like these, i will eat a single rail 4 speed.

[v gate]

Originally Posted by kpcart

good ridence to the manuals. its a big "fake" artform that motor journalists created and car enthusiast copied their line, its a big conspiracy to make some people look like more of a "driver" then others, when infact its just bs.

Some get this perplexion of "im a a better driver because i drive manual", because they have fallen into the engineering cycle, where a manual version of a car always had one more gear then their inferior auto counterpart. this was common in the 80s and 90s, but now, many autos are actually faster then manual boxes.

F1 had fully automatic cars in 2002 as it was the fastest way around a race track, so for "pure" racers, auto is the best option.

Who in their right mind would actually want to change gears manually, if the car can do the job for you and make your drive luxurious?

ive always thought that the drivers who think they are more 'pure" drivers because they change gears maually are just snobs who believe in a made up fantasy. and many of them think they are reminiscent to "racing car drivers" yet semi automatic has been the fastest way in motorsport for over 25 years.

Hey look im a snob. How cool

[EB#]

A little bit of trivia on the semi-automatic....
From Wiki:

Citroën produced a number of variants on semi-automatic transmission.
The Citroën DS, introduced in 1955, used a hydraulic system to select gears and operate the
conventional clutch using hydraulic servos. There was also a speed controller and idle speed step-up device,
all hydraulically operated. This allowed clutchless shifting with a single selector mounted behind the steering wheel.
This system was nicknamed 'Citro-Matic' in the U.S.

The Citroën 2CV gained an optional centrifugal clutch, marketed in English-speaking countries as "Trafficlutch".
It did not help with gear changing, but it disengaged automatically when the engine slowed to an idle.
A device was fitted to the carburettor to prevent the throttle closing abruptly, and the resultant clutch
disengagement and lack of engine braking.

Later, the manufacturer introduced optional semi-automatic transmissions on their medium and large
saloon and estate models in the 1970s; the Citroën GS and CX models had the option of three-speed,
semi-automatic transmission marketed as 'C matic'. This was simpler than the DS implementation: instead of
hydraulics it used a floor mounted quadrant lever operating conventional gear selector rods and an electrically
controlled wet plate clutch in conjunction with a torque converter. The torque converter gave more
of the feel of a conventional automatic transmission, which was completely lacking in the DS. Citroën semi-automatic
transmission of this era made no use of electronics: the entire gear selecting operation was carried out by simply
moving the gear lever from one ratio to the next.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by v gate

Hey look im a snob. How cool

Me too with my "Fake Artform " . Still beats the alternative doesnt it .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

How does the transmission in the car alter a person's knowledge of what to do in such a situation? If you cant work out that applying the brakes and shifting to N will slow you down then you shouldn't be on the road period!!

Shifting to N will help impede the cars forward progress will it ? It is you who should NOT be on the road , SERIOUSLY , my family use the roads you drive on .

[kinksta]

Originally Posted by xy500

the day ford releases a base model falcon with a transmission like these, i will eat a single rail 4 speed.

Well I didn't mean just a base model. They will obviously improve though over the next 10-20 years, Falcon won't be using the same 6sp as the ones now for decades. Surely not.

So maybe in 20 years you can eat your single rail 4 speed.

[Grobbo]

OK so here's a question - the new Ferarri 458 Italia only comes with an awesome 7 speed sequential box that changes so quick you can actually change mid corner without upsetting the balance of the car.

My question is, if you were gonna get one of these, and they had the option of a 6 speed manual - would you take it over such an advanced dual clutcher? Bearing in mind this box not only makes the car faster everywhere, but the reviewers say that it's as much of a driving enhancement as many of the car's other new features...

As much of a manual nut I am, I'd be having a long hard think about turning that kind of technology down....

This is undoubtedly where most serious sporting gearboxes will end up one day.

I don't think I've ever seen a review of the new GTR where someone's said 'I wish it was a manual...'

My point is, if a dual clutcher is that good, you'll soon forget about the lack of a clutch pedal...

[Grippy]

Originally Posted by Grobbo

OK so here's a question - the new Ferarri 458 Italia only comes with an awesome 7 speed sequential box that changes so quick you can actually change mid corner without upsetting the balance of the car.

My question is, if you were gonna get one of these, and they had the option of a 6 speed manual - would you take it over such an advanced dual clutcher? Bearing in mind this box not only makes the car faster everywhere, but the reviewers say that it's as much of a driving enhancement as many of the car's other new features...

As much of a manual nut I am, I'd be having a long hard think about turning that kind of technology down....

This is undoubtedly where most serious sporting gearboxes will end up one day.

I don't think I've ever seen a review of the new GTR where someone's said 'I wish it was a manual...'

My point is, if a dual clutcher is that good, you'll soon forget about the lack of a clutch pedal...

I'd still go the true manual box in the Ferrari, I dont care how good the new 7 speed sequential is, you will never have that connection to the car that only a stick and clutch give

[glavas]

i love being able to slow my car down quickly without using the brakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by Grippy

I'd still go the true manual box in the Ferrari, I dont care how good the new 7 speed sequential is, you will never have that connection to the car that only a stick and clutch give

I wonder if that would still be the same answer if you had just piloted both on a track... Or a sinuey mountain pass where it was actually more enjoyable to keep both hands on the wheel at all times...

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

you cant drop big rollback smokey fishhooks in autos ..

Don't own a company car, hey bloke???

I enjoy driving manual cars, but daily driving them in heavy traffic can be hard work, depending on setup - my XR6 had an awfully heavy clutch, crawling in to town every day was a nightmare... However the Toyota Stout I had with a 4 speed and 6.5:1 diff gears was great - You could take off in 4th and leave it there until you reached V-max.

Manuals for fun, autos for skids/driving to work. The end.

[Grippy]

Originally Posted by Grobbo

I wonder if that would still be the same answer if you had just piloted both on a track... Or a sinuey mountain pass where it was actually more enjoyable to keep both hands on the wheel at all times...

I couldnt care less if a 7 speed sequential box is a few tenths of a second quicker around a track, driving enjoyment is more important to me. Having one hand on the wheel at times is part of the fun for me, especially on my favourite twisty pass

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Shifting to N will help impede the cars forward progress will it ? It is you who should NOT be on the road , SERIOUSLY , my family use the roads you drive on .

Did you even read what i wrote or did you chose to ignore the bit about applying the brakes. I dont know about you but my car slows down if its put into N.

And i was referencing a post where a manual driver suggested also that placing the gearstick into N would help slow the car down with the aid of the brakes and im mearly making the point that the type of transmission should have no bearing on a persons knowledge of these facts!

So i shall continue to drive despite your thoughts. After all it is my job.

[Jack91]

Ive had my manual falcon for 2 days and driven it about 50km. It is more fun than an auto, but I dont think its as great as everyone makes out. However in saying that I wont go back to an automatic falcon now. Sort of wakes the old 4.0L up.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by dimka100

… Nissan has added the auto throttle blip feature into their latest Z box, but hey this is an AUTOMATIC feature not a manual one ….

Wrong, the manual also has this feature

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Wrong, the manual also has this feature

I think he means the blip feature is 'automatic', not the transmission.

I've heard a few journo's say it takes the fun out of nailing a sweet blip.

I agree - if the pedals are nicely spaced why would you want it done automatically.

Fricken PITA blippping the XR8 tho... Pedals are all over the show...

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by Grippy

I couldnt care less if a 7 speed sequential box is a few tenths of a second quicker around a track, driving enjoyment is more important to me. Having one hand on the wheel at times is part of the fun for me, especially on my favourite twisty pass

I don't reckon anyone could really say for sure unless they actually drove both back to back.

Considering a manual 458 will never exist and it's unlikely most if us will get to drive the dual clutch version it's probably a mute point...

A more likely scenario is the VW DSG V's Manual.

In the GTI the Manual would still be my pick but I've read a few journo's saying the DSG makes the Golf R a 'better car'.

Would be interesting to punt them back to back...

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

Ive had my manual falcon for 2 days and driven it about 50km. It is more fun than an auto, but I dont think its as great as everyone makes out. However in saying that I wont go back to an automatic falcon now. Sort of wakes the old 4.0L up.

Hmmm... AU XR6 is it? In Tazzy?

Probably the 2nd heaviest clutch in existence (behind the AU XR8) but I suppose there's not much traffic down there.

Try driving through Melbourne CBD for a few days and let me know how your knee feels...

[Grobbo]

Little vid of Golf R DSG V's Manual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfv...layer_embedded

[pottery beige]

just me but there is a sweet spot for manuals.. aroundish 400hp + 400ftlbs.... just enough to putter around without boredom and incinerate at will....

[SB076]

All my cars have been manual apart from my current car, previously I prefered manuals, but I used to get stuck in stop start traffic so I switched to an auto, which is a lot easier. Plus my driving style has changed too, in this day and age there is far more traffic and far less tolerance for accelerating quickly or doing 3 k's over the speed limit. In years gone by you could find a quiet road miles away from anything and have some fun downchanging blipping the throtte and accelerating through a corner in this day and age thats pretty much the worse crime you could commit. Therefore the fun of having a manual is no longer there for me (just my 2 cents) If I had the time and $$$ for a track car I would definitely go for a manual

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Little vid of Golf R DSG V's Manual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfv...layer_embedded

With that beautiful noise the R32 makes, the R specs have lost a lot of soul, IMO. :(

[JackoTJK]

I have a mate that drives trucks for a living...he owns an auto because he doesn't want to drive an 18 speed all week only to change gears at home.

I have a T5 in my EL with HD ceramic clutch, but i'm in rural NSW where there isn't huge amounts of stop start driving, and where cruise control set to 100kph gives me averages of 8-9L/100km with the turbo spooling lightly as i go up hill. I like to be able to put it in a gear and it stays there.

Has anyone here done an auto conversion in a car? You'd agree with me that it takes 2 people to struggle getting an auto out but you can put the manual in by yourself, ie power to weight favors the manual, not to mention driveline losses. Only a manual box with an automatic clutch could overcome both these issues

BUT if i wanted to keep a turbo spooled and not break axles, diffs, g/bags, dirveshafts and uni's flat shifting a manual, i'd definately get an auto. Can't beat an auto with tranny lock or even just brakes to get a turbo spooling off the line

BTW you can push start a manual EFI car if the battery is too low to wind, which is more common then dead flat anyway...and it would have to be about 6 volts for the ECU to not try to fire at all

sorry if it looks like a novel, but i read all 5 pages at once and wanted to share :P