VFacts June 2010

[bmorris]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

?????? question marks fill my head so much, how has the cruze become so big so quick?????? I don't know about pricing but is it really that much cheaper than the competition? What's the quailty like on them

From what I've heard they are a good car for someone who doesn't really care what car they drive (ie majority of the Australian public these days). Gets you from point A to B and is fairly cheap to run. Also cheap to buy. Explains its success.

[Windsor220]

They're popular because they are Holden. I know a few of wives/girlfriends that have bought them. They are better quality than the Daewoo range but still not near the Euro/Jap stuff.

[yift]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In the huge vacant lot next to Broadmeadows that used to be filled with products ready for delivery. Ford's sales are freshening but rebalancing the line is tricky and not done until absolutely necessary, that's why overtime is preferable to rebalancing in the short term.

read the second line of my post. the big vacant lot isnt fords anymore and not for a very long time unless they want to break the contract and lose a massive amount of money.

it was full of products that were not selling au - au3 and even a year or 2 after ba's release it was still full of au's.

as for overtime it is not preferable or feesable, if you have an idea of how broady runs you will know overtime will not work unless it is for the long run and also if there was a higher profit margin to retrieve all cost which will not only be from the employee's pay packets but it will have a flow on effect from all of fords suppliers.

[anto]

Originally Posted by ute83

Yep, good one ANTO. How do you compare a few recalls of late, to making problematic cars for nearly two decades?

you see, thats where I completely disagree. You are implying it is a rampant problem yet it isnt.
...and I would hardly call toyotas problems "a few recalls" when there are likely dozens of deaths involved and recalls across theior entire range including lexus.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/69014/to...for-89-deaths/
Google toyota recall and see for yourself.

Point is Ford is no worse than Holden or most other manufacturers in terms of reliabilty and build quality in the local market.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

?????? question marks fill my head so much, how has the cruze become so big so quick?????? I don't know about pricing but is it really that much cheaper than the competition? What's the quailty like on them

Been a passenger in one, very solid feeling, like a mini Audi. It must weigh a heap as its has that very chunky feel to the way it goes over things. very roomy roomy, beautiful interior for the price, heaps of features, good value. Driver said it wasnt very quick but the 6 speed auto is nice to find in this bracket. Id personally have one over a Focus (even though I know the Focus would drive better).

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by anto

you see, thats where I completely disagree. You are implying it is a rampant problem yet it isnt.
...and I would hardly call toyotas problems "a few recalls" when there are likely dozens of deaths involved and recalls across theior entire range including lexus.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/69014/to...for-89-deaths/
Google toyota recall and see for yourself.

Point is Ford is no worse than Holden or most other manufacturers in terms of reliabilty and build quality in the local market.

And how many cars did Toyota Australia recall??? From memory it was about 2.5K on Prius & that is it!!! So your point is not very value when in this country on 2.5K cars have been recalled!!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And how many cars did Toyota Australia recall??? From memory it was about 2.5K on Prius & that is it!!! So your point is not very value when in this country on 2.5K cars have been recalled!!

Problem is people dont remember the recall back in 06 with the front suspension issue. That Toyota knew about for 9 years and only acted after it resulted in deaths (btw they got a slap on the wrist for that).

[Resurrection]

No matter how you spin it, it was a crap month. Falcon's June sales were the lowest for that month in decades. I have Falcon sales figures back to the mid-80s and there has been no June in that period which had fewer sales than this year.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Some car companies make a lot of cars and big profits. There is a radical thought. Apparently some Ford fans believe Ford Australia is now only capable of only one or the other.

Bit sad really. They should be capable of both. Once they were.

Ford have navigated through difficult financial times and managed to show profit, and launched FG at the worst possible time, almost looked like 380 MkII... with the times we are in (things are far from better), profit matters. I agree given this is a record month it's disapointing market share wasn't higher, but as long as they're making money, it's all good.

When we enter the next boom however, there aren't really any more excuses...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

No matter how you spin it, it was a crap month. Falcon's June sales were the lowest for that month in decades. I have Falcon sales figures back to the mid-80s and there has been no June in that period which had fewer sales than this year.

Of course it's low, Ford is running out all the old Euro III cars before starting Euro IV models on July 1.
We've not had a mid model emissions switch like that since June 30 1986 (ULP).

[russellw]

While it is true that this is the worst June for Falcon, there have certainly been worse months in between - including 3 of the months earlier this year which were all below this figure.

The little chart below compares June Falcon sales since 1999.

Cheers
Russ

[anto]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And how many cars did Toyota Australia recall??? From memory it was about 2.5K on Prius & that is it!!! So your point is not very value when in this country on 2.5K cars have been recalled!!

huh ? you actually just made my point for me,..thanks

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by russellw

While it is true that this is the worst June for Falcon, there have certainly been worse months in between - including 3 of the months earlier this year which were all below this figure.

The little chart below compares June Falcon sales since 1999.

Cheers
Russ

If that was a a stock then you would say it is trending down and becoming worthless. Do you have one for the Commodore? It would be interesting to see how much ground Holden have lost since then as well. The long term survival of the 4 door family cars for both manufactures really does not look good these days.

Also is that right? Did they sell more AU's in June 1999 than BA's in 2003???

Also look how well the AU performed against the FG so far! I for one will not be so quick to disregard the AU from now on that's for sure.

Bud Bud.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Also look how well the AU performed against the FG so far! I for one will not be so quick to disregard the AU from now on that's for sure.

The new car market was an entirely different beast back then. Much more choice now and the SUV craze had barely begun to take off.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by anto

you see, thats where I completely disagree. You are implying it is a rampant problem yet it isnt.
...and I would hardly call toyotas problems "a few recalls" when there are likely dozens of deaths involved and recalls across theior entire range including lexus.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/69014/to...for-89-deaths/
Google toyota recall and see for yourself.

Point is Ford is no worse than Holden or most other manufacturers in terms of reliabilty and build quality in the local market.

So are you saying that ford don't have as many recalls as brand T? I don't know what you do for a living, i can tell you that there are a lot of workshops very busy with head gaskets, transmissions, brake shudder, diff repairs and so on and so on. And I see my fair share of it as well. I am not saying that ford are the only ones with problematic cars but they have by far the most, and when car ownership starts costing thousands upon thousands extra it leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by anto

huh ? you actually just made my point for me,..thanks

How?? You're implying Totoya has recalls after recall after recall. This is ture O/S but in Australia they have only recalled about 2,500 cars.. That is nothing compared to others in this country!! Your trying to imply an O/S Totoya problem to Australia Totoya.. When Australia as in large not been effected by O/S recalls!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Also look how well the AU performed against the FG so far! I for one will not be so quick to disregard the AU from now on that's for sure.

I think you need to look a like deeper into that!!! AU was built in a period with Australia large sedens where at there peck.. We are no where close to that anymore..

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by ute83

I am not saying that ford are the only ones with problematic cars but they have by far the most, and when car ownership starts costing thousands upon thousands extra it leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.

Care to quantify that with some proof/evidence?

Here is mine:

April 2007 - Ford's quality comparable to Toyota, Nissan

June 2007 - Ford brands dominate US quality survey

April 2008 - Ford quality equal to that of Toyota and Honda

July 2008 - Ford's long term durability improves faster than industry average

February 2009 - Ford global warranty costs slashed by $1.2B over last two years despite increasing warranty from 3 to 5 years and 36,000 miles to 60,000 miles

July 2009 - Ford tops quality survey

October 2009 - Ford quality climbs again

April 2010 - Ford has industries highest customer satisfaction with quality

June 2010 - Ford now has the industries highest initial quality among all non-luxury brands in the industry


Things are looking up in the quality department.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by ute83

So are you saying that ford don't have as many recalls as brand T? I don't know what you do for a living, i can tell you that there are a lot of workshops very busy with head gaskets, transmissions, brake shudder, diff repairs and so on and so on. And I see my fair share of it as well. I am not saying that ford are the only ones with problematic cars but they have by far the most, and when car ownership starts costing thousands upon thousands extra it leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.

Yeah headgaskets were common place with models over 10 years ago but Ford has moved on. I am aware Ford isnt the pinnacle for reliabilty but I know first hand what Holden is like becasue I work on them everyday. The VE would be the worst Commodore model since the VN as far as issues go. The amount of common issues is staggering considering on release they said qaulity control was going to take a big step up. Whoever invented/designed the alloytech should be shot.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

How?? You're implying Totoya has recalls after recall after recall. This is ture O/S but in Australia they have only recalled about 2,500 cars.. That is nothing compared to others in this country!! Your trying to imply an O/S Totoya problem to Australia Totoya.. When Australia as in large not been effected by O/S recalls!!

Nope. And this is only the Australian recalls let alone overseas:

Toyota

2010
* Toyota—Lexus GS and LS vehicles - Valve Spring Replacement - 6th July 2010
* Toyota—Land Cruiser 200 GXL—Front Seat Belt Buckle Replacement - 1st July 2010
* Toyota—LEXUS LS460 and LS600hL—Steering Control ECU Replacement - 24th May 2010
* Toyota—Prius ZVW30 vehicles—Brake Feel - 9th February 2010

2009
* Toyota—Land Cruiser 200—With Toyota Genuine Bull Bar - 2nd March 2009
* Toyota—Yaris NCP90, NCP91 and NCP93—Front Seat Belt Pretensioner-Insulator Pad - 29th January 2009

2008
* Toyota—Land Cruiser 100 and Lexus LX470—Dash Board Wire Harness Interference with Pedal Support - 26th May 2008

2007
* Toyota—Lexus IS250 and Lexus GS300 vehicles—Engine Fuel Pipes -29th November 2007
* Toyota—Hiace Van and Hiace Commuter Bus—Fuel Pump - 22nd October 2007
* Toyota—Hilux Four Wheel Drive Vehicles—Toyota Accessory Bullbar/Hazard Light Relay Kit - 12th October 2007
* Toyota—Hilux—Engine Hood (Bonnet) Striker - 12th October 2007
* Toyota—Camry—Headlight Dimmer Switch - 31st May 2007
* Toyota—Land Cruiser and Lexus—Front Disc Brake Rotor Retaining Bolt - 1st March 2007

2006
* Toyota—(Hilux) Surf vehicles - 31st August 2006
* Toyota—Echo & Prius NZ Engine—Crankshaft Position Sensor - 19th July 2006
* Toyota—Dyna 200 (XZU305, XZU345)—N04C-TF Engine Turbocharger - 19th July 2006
* Toyota—Land Cruiser 100 Series -27th June 2006
* Toyota—Prius NHW20 - 1st June 2006
* Toyota—Land Cruiser Prado 95 - 17th May 2006
* Toyota—Lexus IS250, GS300/430 - 19th April 2006
* Toyota—Lexus GS300 & Prius -4th April 2006
* Toyota—RAV4 - 20th January 2006

2005
* Toyota—Corolla/RAV4/Echo—Headlamp Dimmer Switch - 19th October 2005
* Toyota—Tarago ACR30 - 15th September 2005
* Toyota—Hilux 4WD and 4Runner vehicles - 7th September 2005
* Toyota—Tarago ACR30 - 31st August 2005
* Toyota—Corolla ZZE122—Moon Roof Wire Harness - 13th July 2005
* Toyota—Camry/Avalon—No 1 Rear Suspension Arm - 17th May 2005
* Toyota—Land Cruiser Prado - 17th May 2005
* Toyota—Avensis Verso—Fuel tank inlet pipe and breather tube - 3rd February 2005
* Toyota—Lexus—LS430 Fuel Pump - 27th January 2005

Source: http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/in...mItemId/952855

You have blinkers on if you think that the global brand has no impact on the local Australian brand. Where does the money come from or get pulled from everytime the parent company has to resolve a recall? It will come globally from new projects, from R&D, from that extra layer of quality assurance. It will go into oursourcing of labour and parts to countries that yield better economies of scale, but not necessarily comparable build quality.

From there global perception of the brand is tarnished which affects sales (see below) and the spiral continues. If Ford/GM/Toyota/etc global goes down, then Ford/GM/Toyota/etc Australia goes down too.

Ford Motor Co. overtook rival General Motors for the lead in U.S. sales on March 3 as Toyota faltered amid a series of mass recalls and congressional investigations into its safety standards. The company appeared to have capitalized on Toyota's woes as its February U.S. sales jumped 43%

Source: http://www.industryweek.com/articles...les_21225.aspx

If you still think we are cocooned in a little protective bubble from the rest of the world, i suggest you go and do a course on Globalisation.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

. Whoever invented/designed the alloytech should be shot.

Knowing GM he was probably promoted.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Nope. And this is only the Australian recalls let alone overseas:



Source: http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/in...mItemId/952855

You have blinkers on if you think that the global brand has no impact on the local Australian brand. Where does the money come from or get pulled from everytime the parent company has to resolve a recall? It will come globally from new projects, from R&D, from that extra layer of quality assurance. It will go into oursourcing of labour and parts to countries that yield better economies of scale, but not necessarily comparable build quality.

From there global perception of the brand is tarnished which affects sales (see below) and the spiral continues. If Ford/GM/Toyota/etc global goes down, then Ford/GM/Toyota/etc Australia goes down too.



Source: http://www.industryweek.com/articles...les_21225.aspx

If you still think we are cocooned in a little protective bubble from the rest of the world, i suggest you go and do a course on Globalisation.

you have missed the freeken point of the orginal poster & the freeken point to my reply!!!

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Care to quantify that with some proof/evidence?

Here is mine:

April 2007 - Ford's quality comparable to Toyota, Nissan

June 2007 - Ford brands dominate US quality survey

April 2008 - [URL=http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/07/ford-touting-quality-equal-to-that-of-toyota-and-honda/]Ford quality equal to that of Toyota and Hond
July 2008 - Ford's long term durability improves faster than industry average

February 2009 - Ford global warranty costs slashed by $1.2B over last two years despite increasing warranty from 3 to 5 years and 36,000 miles to 60,000 miles

July 2009 - Ford tops quality survey

October 2009 - Ford quality climbs again

April 2010 - Ford has industries highest customer satisfaction with quality

June 2010 - Ford now has the industries highest initial quality among all non-luxury brands in the industry


Things are looking up in the quality department.

WOW. Good on you inducted. This post is about AUSTRALIAN built cars.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

you have missed the freeken point of the orginal poster & the freeken point to my reply!!!

Lets make this simple for you Joe:

-Anto stated that Toyota were having more than "a few recalls", implying they have quality issues like Ford.
-You accused Anto of implying that Toyota have recall after recall after recall and that he was incorrect.
-You then went on to state that only 2500 cars have been recalled in Australia for Toyota.
-You also stated that Toyota Australia is not impacted by global recalls

I demonstrated to you that Toyota have had recall after recall after recall (after recall - as they had 4 in 2010 ). I also demonstrated that more than 2500 cars have been recalled as a result of the 3 recalls you conveniently overlooked. By listing global models, i also demonstrated recalls can affect us in Australia too.

Try writing your posts a little more clearly if this has been misunderstood.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by ute83

WOW. Good on you inducted. This post is about AUSTRALIAN built cars.

Allow me to quote myself from 4 posts up:

You have blinkers on if you think that the global brand has no impact on the local Australian brand.

I am still waiting for an answer to my question to you. Where is your statistical evidence to demonstrate that Ford Australia is "far" more problematic than other brands? Make a sweeping statement like that, then show us some proof.

[buickman]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

?????? question marks fill my head so much, how has the cruze become so big so quick?????? I don't know about pricing but is it really that much cheaper than the competition? What's the quailty like on them

Holden had a sale on for the Cruze in June the top of the range CDX 6 speed auto was $26,500 drive away and these are good cars for the money with all options including heated front leather seats .

Korean cars are starting to get the quality up on their cars as the Cruze scores a 35.04 out of 37 and the FG Ford scores 34.61 out of 37 for the 5 star rating.
Also Kia which was a shocking cheaply made car has improved their quality by getting Peter Schreyer from VW as their Chief design officer and the Cerato is a good car for the money.
The Korean cars are the big movers as far as sales go Hyundai is slowly moving up the sales charts.
These cars are competing for the private sales at an affordable cost to by and own with good safety.

[ute83]

@inducted. Show me statistical evidence that Australian made Fords are LESS problematic than other brands. I have worked on these cars for the past 25 years. Check out http://www.motorsm.com/complaints/latest.asp and you will see that the humble falcon is the fourth most complained car on that site.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Most of the complaints on that website are on cars over 10 years old. Falcons are rep cars that do lots of kms generally, and they haev been the second / third biggest selling car in aus for a long time, therefore ofcourse there are going to be plenty of whingers!

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The new car market was an entirely different beast back then. Much more choice now and the SUV craze had barely begun to take off.

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I think you need to look a like deeper into that!!! AU was built in a period with Australia large sedens where at there peck.. We are no where close to that anymore..

It's ok as my post was a little tongue in cheek at best so thanks for the heads up fellers and yeh I know that the large car segment has changed (read shrunk) even perhaps forever over the past ten years. but there is no escaping the fact that at no point has the FG out sold the AU for the month of June even at the end of the AU's cycle or from the usual spike that you get from the excitement surrounding the release of a new model in the FG's case either.

Originally Posted by buickman

Holden had a sale on for the Cruze in June the top of the range CDX 6 speed auto was $26,500 drive away and these are good cars for the money with all options including heated front leather seats .

Korean cars are starting to get the quality up on their cars as the Cruze scores a 35.04 out of 37 and the FG Ford scores 34.61 out of 37 for the 5 star rating.
Also Kia which was a shocking cheaply made car has improved their quality by getting Peter Schreyer from VW as their Chief design officer and the Cerato is a good car for the money.
The Korean cars are the big movers as far as sales go Hyundai is slowly moving up the sales charts.
These cars are competing for the private sales at an affordable cost to by and own with good safety.

You know what you are talking about, I was talking to someone who works at Holden (and has for sometime) today and amongst other things is grateful that they are on full time pay now. He told me that the Cruze has had a lot do with Holden's fortunes at the moment and that they could probably sell more if they could get their hands on them. The reason I am bringing this up is because he mentioned the delay of the local production of the Cruze was delayed because they needed more time to make sure that they could match the very high quality standards that the Koreans have now set with the Cruze when local production begins so that they don't spoil they party.

Bud Bud

[Stoney!]

Wow that's gotta hurt, it's more complained about than a land rover LOL!!! Holden Astra is no surprise, they were a crappy unreliable car and I hope they are never sold here again.

Stoney!