Car industry prepares for Ford Australia exit - Page 5

turbodewd · 31-07-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

FORD PR please explain why the Falcon isn't being advertised ????

Probably because where the product sits in the product lifecycle. Its a marketing term. Basically you advertise a product at the start of its life.

I mean we dont see any advertising around specifically for similar cars do we? The Maxima, Mazda 6, Liberty - you rarely see ads for these. I mean u see plenty of ads for the Terri, but bugger all for the Kluger.

Personally I think the Falcon can exist beyond 2016 but will need:

EcoBoost 3.5L V6

And other fancy features:

HUD - head up display showing things like speed on the lower windscreen
more lightweight materials
LED taillights
keyless start
closeable front grille vents
auto boot open

flooded one · 31-07-2012, 11:23 AM

what will kill the straight 6 will be tuffer emission laws. the straight 6 is actually ahead of holdens newer V6s. I really notice the difference out on the highway between the too. the holden V6 (not the horrible 3L thing) is not gutless either by anymeans in saying that.

TheSneakiness · 31-07-2012, 11:32 AM

Again its the same fools with I want this and it must have that.

Ford don't offer it for one friggin reason, it doesn't sell. They are NOT going to make a certain car that 10 people are going to buy. Not good business.

If half of you were running Ford with your "it must have this" mentality Ford would have disappeared years ago.

Think about what you type first and pull your bloody heads in

Joe5619 · 31-07-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Probably because where the product sits in the product lifecycle. Its a marketing term. Basically you advertise a product at the start of its life.I mean we dont see any advertising around specifically for similar cars do we? The Maxima, Mazda 6, Liberty - you rarely see ads for these. I mean u see plenty of ads for the Terri, but bugger all for the Kluger.

[/LIST]

Please explain to me where the EcoLpi & EB4 is in terms of your product life cycle? then come back & tell me "Product life cycle" again, is the reason to advertise these products!!

**Polyal** · 31-07-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Ford don't offer it for one friggin reason, it doesn't sell. They are NOT going to make a certain car that 10 people are going to buy. Not good business.

Ill agree with one thing, is painfully obvious that the market they are selling in is infact to small...all the regs, tech etc you need to make a car competitive is massive and simply having presence in the market is not good enough.

Sure there are some good examples, take the Fairlane, I dont think the Caprice is doing that well and I would be surprised if it continues after this body shape. But how did GMH get around that, by increasing its market potential by reaching other countries.

If GM wasnt so inviting of the Commodore then they to would be in the poo IMO. Rather large difference between the two brands there.

malazn mafia · 31-07-2012, 12:37 PM

Exactly 10 years ago, Ford had an awesome newfalcon.com.au campaign, and amazing TV ad campaign 'new falcon: can't get enough of this'. Unforgettable IMO. Miss the good old days. How did they come from that to a yellow pages walking fingers ad, that somehow featured an FG falcon in the background like it was a side piece in the ad...

turbodewd · 31-07-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Please explain how the iron block is holding back the Falcon. Beside the weight penalty, the I6 gives the much newer Holden V6 a run for its money.

Mate, its about perception, weight and fuel economy. The EcoBoost wont need to run rich for as long to start up, i.e get to proper/efficient operating temp sooner.

Im very happy with my FG Turbo. But other punters may, unfairly, view the I6 as a bit dated.

Would love the I6 to have a lighter block, its just that Ford AU doesnt have the R&D for it. The EcoBoost is viable and could keep the Falcon alive...very alive. The trusty I6 probably wont be around in 2017.

Benjamin Smith · 31-07-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Exactly 10 years ago, Ford had an awesome newfalcon.com.au campaign, and amazing TV ad campaign 'new falcon: can't get enough of this'. Unforgettable IMO. Miss the good old days. How did they come from that to a yellow pages walking fingers ad, that somehow featured an FG falcon in the background like it was a side piece in the ad...

Can someone put up a link to this walking fingers ad so I can see what you guys are going on about because I can't remember it

Pepscobra · 31-07-2012, 01:14 PM

The I6 is an awesome motor, has been for decades (and there lays the problem... perception that its dated).
But I think its time for the Ecoboost V6 to find its way into the next Falcon.
One of the disadvantages of the I6 is that the nose of the Falcon had to be so long to accomodate it. Made the car longer, affected dynamics, etc.
You will see on a V8 Falcon that theres more room behind the radiator than there is on an I6 Falcon.
The smaller and shorter EB V6 is the way to go. Pretty soon forced-induction of some kind will be mainstream on all cars.

SpoolMan · 31-07-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

The I6 is an awesome motor, has been for decades (and there lays the problem... perception that its dated).
.

Correct I6 has been engineered so well you only have to look at how far there being pushed by the turbo brigade.
Its all about the torque and the V6 doesn't have it.

I6 discussion thread here.
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11372230

malazn mafia · 31-07-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Smith

Can someone put up a link to this walking fingers ad so I can see what you guys are going on about because I can't remember it

FG xr6t ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDFHZZpzM9U

BA xr6t ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNOY1mAo40U

RHR · 31-07-2012, 01:55 PM

The BA ad is far better than the FG ad. It takes around half the total ad just to see the car in the FG ad

anto · 31-07-2012, 01:58 PM

What on earth were they thinking.....

nstg8a · 31-07-2012, 02:11 PM

If falcon survives past 2016, it will only be through one ford strategies. The v6 is a no brainer. In that scenario.

Economically crate motors make a lot more sense than building your own.

As much as we like to bag Holden for releasing varients that were ultimately unviable imo a big reason they were able to do that is because of better part commonality.

Its easy to take the high moral ground sometimes and say ford were smart in dropping models like the wagon, fairlane, rtv etc, but really what's it gained the local ford consumer?

At the end of the day Holden as been able to tap into more funding to offset losses from niche models, and its those niche models that help to keep the Holden faithful umm faithful.

Yes Holden is in just as bad a shape, but a Holden fan can still go and buy a V8 Ute, or a wagon, or the holy grail a manual V8 wagon. Or a lwb luxobarge. Or they can keep supporting Aussie jobs and buy a small more efficient car in the cruze.

Not hard to see why Holden's still sell at least double what ford does.

Brand loyalty aside there's really nothing between comparable models from either brand.

Ford does some things better and Holden does somethings better.
Imo in a perfect world they could work together to share parts suppliers design teams etc.

Look how well received the ft86/brz twins have been. Obviously ford and Holden cooperating on builds would be like a Subaru and Mitsubishi joint evolution/wrx. It would never happen.

Motorbike manufacturers have been doing it for years.

The modern Aussie market is too small, too competitive and too discerning for three local manufacturers that all have compromised some areas of quality to try and stay price competitive.

tranquilized · 31-07-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Mate, its about perception, weight and fuel economy. The EcoBoost wont need to run rich for as long to start up, i.e get to proper/efficient operating temp sooner.

Im very happy with my FG Turbo. But other punters may, unfairly, view the I6 as a bit dated.

Would love the I6 to have a lighter block, its just that Ford AU doesnt have the R&D for it. The EcoBoost is viable and could keep the Falcon alive...very alive. The trusty I6 probably wont be around in 2017.

The trusty RWD Falcon wont be around in 2017, let alone the I6. Theres no way in hell Ford AU will engineer the V6 ecoboost for Falcon for just a few years on the market - Falcon will have the I6 till it dies in 2016. That much is a given, whats up for conjecture is whether Ford will build Falcons successor here, or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

The I6 is an awesome motor, has been for decades (and there lays the problem... perception that its dated).
But I think its time for the Ecoboost V6 to find its way into the next Falcon.
One of the disadvantages of the I6 is that the nose of the Falcon had to be so long to accomodate it. Made the car longer, affected dynamics, etc.
You will see on a V8 Falcon that theres more room behind the radiator than there is on an I6 Falcon.
The smaller and shorter EB V6 is the way to go. Pretty soon forced-induction of some kind will be mainstream on all cars.

Move the front wheels forward and dynamics and aesthetics would be improved significantly and the length of the I6 wouldn't be an issue. (as in, BMW) But yeah, it would be far cheaper and easier to just throw a V6 in there and reduce the front overhang, but I know which option I'd prefer...

FacultY · 31-07-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

FG xr6t ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDFHZZpzM9U

BA xr6t ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNOY1mAo40U

I love the BA ad. Ive even added New order - Slow Jam song to my ipod playlist to listen to while driving

Auslandau · 31-07-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RASER

Anyway, now its time to figure what they are going to import.

NOT interested in a Ranger, the F150 would HAVE to be on the line up, not at a silly price either, $29,990 + ORC

The problem with the Falcon [more than anything else] it just got to expensive, Ford should be cheered that they have been still able to make sales of them

The mid $30k Peugeot 508 for one kills it, modern, sleek, quality, frugal etc.

The Falcon is a vehicle of the previous generation, move on!

Yep ...... If the market is dying for a $36,000 115kw large car ...... this would be the one to get ..... the rest of this just makes me go

Bossxr8 · 31-07-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RASER

Anyway, now its time to figure what they are going to import.

NOT interested in a Ranger, the F150 would HAVE to be on the line up, not at a silly price either, $29,990 + ORC

The problem with the Falcon [more than anything else] it just got to expensive, Ford should be cheered that they have been still able to make sales of them

The mid $30k Peugeot 508 for one kills it, modern, sleek, quality, frugal etc.

The Falcon is a vehicle of the previous generation, move on!

The Falcon is better value for money now than it ever has been. Just compare the cost of a Falcon as a percentage of the average wage and its a lower percentage than ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snout

He speaks the truth. But the article is like p*ssing on a bushfire to save your house.

It seems The Motor Report is more interested in defending Ford than Ford are.

The damage is already done. But Ford don't really care anyway, they have their agenda. Do you think they would be just sitting down and taking it if they didn't already know their fate.

Falcon and Territory are dead, it wether Broadmeadows assemble anything post 2016 that is now the question and is being looked at. It all depends on making a business case for it, which will only work if exports throughout Asia eventuate. I think the plan of selling the Territory in Thailand is a test case for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Mate, its about perception, weight and fuel economy. The EcoBoost wont need to run rich for as long to start up, i.e get to proper/efficient operating temp sooner.

Im very happy with my FG Turbo. But other punters may, unfairly, view the I6 as a bit dated.

Would love the I6 to have a lighter block, its just that Ford AU doesnt have the R&D for it. The EcoBoost is viable and could keep the Falcon alive...very alive. The trusty I6 probably wont be around in 2017.

The Ecoboost 4 has been a total failure, Fords decision to not even bother advertising or promoting it effectively killed it before it even had a chance. Thanks Bob Graziano, Detroit must love the work you are doing, you are doing exactly as they have asked of you. You deserve your future promotion.

nstg8a · 31-07-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Ecoboost 4 has been a total failure, Fords decision to not even bother advertising or promoting it effectively killed it before it even had a chance. Thanks Bob Graziano, Detroit must love the work you are doing, you are doing exactly as they have asked of you. You deserve your future promotion.

I believe the 'dewd is referring the the ecoboost V6

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicGT

OMG i cant believe what a nerve i hit with starting this thread lol ;)
anyway, I have changed my habits round using them...i am a shift worker and live in a dimly lit suburb so have in the past had them on to illuminate the immediate sides of the road in front of the car...lots of peeps walking their dogs etc at 5am....just incase someone walks out in front of me Its alot easier to see the footpaths etc. From that i had been leaving them on all the time along the highway and into work...where someone had a go at me (which frankly is none of there business) and i know for a fact he was having ago only as he's jealous of the new car. Anyway i have stopped using them on the highway as they dont serve any extra illumination of the road at speed i have found once actually taking real notice. Remember i have only had this car for a couple of mths lol.

The car does look cool when they are on yes, why wouldnt it as it enhances the front end! To those who say its for wenk value then well frankly they are just jealous...sorry for speaking the truth and sorry for having pride in my AWESOME new FPV GT 335 cause that all it is........ i have an awesome outdoor spa with LED's and and an aweosme hot Fiancee that shares it with me every night over a scotch or two....so its safe to say i'm not a wenker... if you get my drift rofl some of you other guys i'm not so sure about though hahaha

Alot of posts here for and against but in the end its everyones own decision to use them or not...i do when i want for the reasons above...others also for their own reasons yay or nay. As for the law it is open for the officer to decide as far as i can tell from all the posts....A good discussion as always on the forums ;)

Cheers, Cos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

they are driving lights not fog lights, try using them in fog , its probably worse to have them on.

the idea of driving light is so you can be seen by other motorist.

this is what i think anyway.

kevino · 31-07-2012, 06:31 PM

Would like to see a comparison test between Ecoboost Falcon at say $37k and the equivalent $ Peugeot 508 which would be the 1.6 litre 115kw model..and perhaps Ecoboost Mondeo at same price point.
If I had 37k to spend on a car these 3 would be on the shopping list.

Chopped · 31-07-2012, 06:39 PM

Kieron · 31-07-2012, 06:54 PM

Large car sales are dead in Australia, Falcon, Commodore, Camry are sinking.
You can make the best ads the world has ever seen, have the most fuel efficient, feature laden large car on the market but they are out of fashion.

We may all get stuck into Fords advertising the Falcon, but what we don't know is what they do with the fleets where traditionally, 70% of Falcon sales come from. The Territory is advertised fairly consistently and we see it in the sales.
When choosing to spend money on advertising, Ford will almost certainly look at the ROI on the advertising spend and i'd suggest that constant, advertising (ala Territory) of the Falcon with it various power plants would not return as much on the spend as it does on the Terri/Fiesta/Focus hence we don't see much Falcon ads.

The Aus car market has exploded with choice over the last few years, the strong Aussie $$ has made the Euro stuff attractive and the likes of Hyundai and Kia have seriously lifted there game. Small cars are now larger and SUV's have taken the place of the family wagon, the Terri is the saving grace for the Ford Aus assembly line but that will will be long in the tooth come 2016.

The questions are, is there a need to replace the Falcon at all and if so, will it be built in Aus?

My view is there probably isn't a need to replace it and if it is, it will be imported. Either way, manufacturing for Ford Aus is sadly coming to an end.

Personally, as a life long Ford man and owner of 8 or so Falcons,I see the writing on the wall for our beloved machine and am looking forward to what Ford will introduce over the coming years. I'm certainly hoping on the Mustang at a reasonable price, ie Mustang GT and XR8 prices and/or the mooted AWD V6T Taurus suitably re-styled for Aussie tastes.

As Ford fans, perhaps if we accept the Falcon is no longer for these shores in it's current uniquely Aussie guise, we could start to discuss the future and what we would like to see in the showrooms, Ford reps reads these forums every now and again and perhaps positive future discussion may help to shape what they do, after all we all need a hero Ford we can buy/aspire too and carry the mighty Ford oval into the future down under

bobthebilda · 31-07-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Falcon is better value for money now than it ever has been. Just compare the cost of a Falcon as a percentage of the average wage and its a lower percentage than ever.

I remember when i was buying a new car in the mid 90's and looking at the same cars now, they are selling for the same price as they were then (and probably a little less as cars are now sold with on road costs added in). I didnt look at a falcon then, but going by redbook, I would say the Falcon price increase has outpaced quite a few others (probably just due to reductions in tarrifs).

On another track, I have seen a few experts say that Fords "demise" wont be too much of an issue for the other two. Ford might only be making 20% of the cars made in australia, but i am assumming it accounts for a mauch greater percentage of actual "australian manufacturing". Holden might make 3000 cruzes a year, but 60% of it is imported. A cruze made for $17,000 only has $6800 of australian input into it. A Falcon made for $28000 with 70% australian input has $19600 of australian inputs. 1000 Falcons = 3000 Cruzes. And 1800 territories probably more than match 2200 commodores due to higher input costs.

I reckon if someone did the sums then Ford stopping Falcon and Territory would damage local suppliers just as much as Holden packing up

dimka100 · 31-07-2012, 07:07 PM

Yep unfortunately for FOA the Fords that are coming out of the EU or USA ***** all over anything that's locally made ... and i'm pretty sure the parent Ford company is now in the process of planning phasing out all local outdated products and slowly evaluating importing a greater range of models ... after all if Ford actually had any positive news for the local market i'm sure they would be screaming out about it by now ...

Nikked · 31-07-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

Large car sales are dead in Australia, Falcon, Commodore, Camry are sinking.

Yet "medium" cars (sizeable to "large" cars) are doing well, as are large SUV's...

Its not large being a problem, its the use of space, and features/pricepoint.

Bucknaked · 31-07-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roberts

there is alot more bludges in the public service in canberra than on centrelink.

As opposed to all those other bludgers that live outside of Canberra.

nstg8a · 31-07-2012, 07:20 PM

There's so much choice in the market it will be hard for an existing model to claw back decent gains.

It' wasn't that many years ago that Hyundai and Kia owners were derided for buying Korean 'junk', now even the mods of this forum weigh up the pros and cons of the different models and find in favor of the imports from Korea.
And no, I don't mean that as a dig. At all.

Really what hope do locally assembled models have in the Face of true economies of scale available to the big overseas car makers.

One ford is the only true hope for an australianised grwd.

Says a lot about how far the competition has come in a relatively short time.

Bossxr8 · 31-07-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I believe the 'dewd is referring the the ecoboost V6

On closer reading I think your right.

But switching to a V6 is pointless now anyway, its too late for all that.

Franco Cozzo · 31-07-2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Not sure if you're being sarcastic. But I think you are on to something there. I support your post.

No sarcasm here for once

I'm not very good at media so that is why I want to be in there with contributing somehow, so putting in some $$$ seems the go.

So is anyone interested in taking up my offer, or wanting to contribute some funds to help out? Ford marketing won't do it, (particularly the case of the Ecoboost 4 and LPG Falcon)

Kitty is $20 so far for the winner, any official support from forum management?

Pro Tip:

Gobes32 and BossXR8 actually work for Ford, maybe they wouldn't mind doing a short piece or appearing in your presentation?

Keepleft · 31-07-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Consider a typical family in Sydney and Melbourne who need an average loan of around $400k plus save a deposit of $100k just to buy an average place to live (nothing flash in an inner suburb either), then put food on the table, clothing, health , transport, insurance costs, utilities, expenses of raising kids etc, then tell me that $80k is too high.

That just tells me our home and land prices are hideously over valued, and our wages. No offence.