According to Drive Ranger XL and XLS are not selling?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Designed with a 15cm ruler and a crayon

Thats what those VDJ79 people love though

They might feel at home more if they move the back wheels inboard a few inches

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Plus the 110KW Cummins powerhouse

Safescape variant has the 130KW/600NM job with an Allison auto - you gotta remember VDJ79 series customers love using 15L/100km and 0-100 in 20 seconds

[barra240t]

Can say XL and XLS sales have absolutely picked up in the last couple of weeks, big fleet deals on XL and quite a few privates on XLS lately. I think we are nicking some from Toyota due to supply. Good for us, getting some more Ford's out there.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Can say XL and XLS sales have absolutely picked up in the last couple of weeks, big fleet deals on XL and quite a few privates on XLS lately. I think we are nicking some from Toyota due to supply. Good for us, getting some more Ford's out there.

Just having cars on dealer lots will certainly bring more people in if they know they can skip any waiting list. Ford must know this as they have been doing radio advertising saying you can get XL and XLS Rangers immediately, and Ambiente and Trend Everests to drive away on the day.

That will draw a few people in who don't want to wait. Not me though, it's probably going to be 12 months before I get my Wildtrak

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just having cars on dealer lots will certainly bring more people in if they know they can skip any waiting list. Ford must know this as they have been doing radio advertising saying you can get XL and XLS Rangers immediately, and Ambiente and Trend Everests to drive away on the day.

That will draw a few people in who don't want to wait. Not me though, it's probably going to be 12 months before I get my Wildtrak

I don’t think it will work for the very reason you’re not buying one,
almost zero interest in XL , dealers are gonna take a bath on these

It would be better if Ford just “forgot” about XL for the first 12 months
and just focused on high series demand….

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I don’t think it will work for the very reason you’re not buying one,
almost zero interest in XL , dealers are gonna take a bath on these

It would be better if Ford just “forgot” about XL for the first 12 months
and just focused on high series demand….

Might for people looking for one for immediate availability for work purposes, like if you had to wait a couple months for a new Hilux or you could immediately score a new Ranger to fill a gap you'd go the Ranger for sure.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I don’t think it will work for the very reason you’re not buying one,
almost zero interest in XL , dealers are gonna take a bath on these

It would be better if Ford just “forgot” about XL for the first 12 months
and just focused on high series demand….

I think it will, because as Franco says, if someone needs a ute for work duties, and they have a choice of waiting 6-12 months for a Hilux, or immediate delivery on a superior Ranger, it makes an easy choice.

Having stock on the ground is helpful for someone who doesn't care what they get, they just need something now. Not everyone wants to wait.

You are right about the last part though, and they will no doubt switch the production mix around to cater for the more in demand models as soon as they get the suppliers sorted with parts supply volume changes. They have already done it once, will no doubt require another go at as soon as they can.

V6 supply might be an issue though, they might need to run another shift, or make changes to the production line to increase volume. That's a harder job.

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Who the hell would buy the 79 series over the Raptor.

Hhahaha I guess someone who wants reliability and proven off road capability. Some one who wants to take their rig off road and into the bush and also know that they will make it out.

I've seen way too many horror stories with the Ford ranger products, EGR problems, rust problems, etc. I work at a Ford workshop, so I know all the problems Ford have, I've also worked at a Toyota workshop, and the only thing the landcruisers came in for where services, not engine rebuilds or engine replacements.

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

Hhahaha I guess someone who wants reliability and proven off road capability. Some one who wants to take their rig off road and into the bush and also know that they will make it out.

I've seen way too many horror stories with the Ford ranger products, EGR problems, rust problems, etc. I work at a Ford workshop, so I know all the problems Ford have, I've also worked at a Toyota workshop, and the only thing the landcruisers came in for where services, not engine rebuilds or engine replacements.

Not sure what this actually has to do with the title of the thread? Thanks for the inside info though, completely swayed me and now I'm going to buy only Toyota 👍🏼

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I don’t think it will work for the very reason you’re not buying one,
almost zero interest in XL , dealers are gonna take a bath on these

It would be better if Ford just “forgot” about XL for the first 12 months
and just focused on high series demand….

Sort of correct, zero interest from private/small business buyers, incorrect with platinum and government departments, they are on a different level so they usually will only buy XL product.

[Adamz Ghia]

So many horror stories with Ranger. Must be why Ford has so many repeat buyers and sales increase year on year. Because of all the horror stories.

These comments just don’t make sense.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

So many horror stories with Ranger. Must be why Ford has so many repeat buyers and sales increase year on year. Because of all the horror stories.

These comments just don’t make sense.

It's getting better every year. Launch went really well, to the point where the americans were asking how they did it. What is the secret. Cause they made an absolute mess of the Explorer launch a few years ago, and the Bronco roof problem at launch was a nightmare.

Ranger launch has been fairly seemless in comparison. A few driveline vibration issues very early on, but seemingly not much else bar some reports of the bluetooth phone calls being too quiet and hard to hear. Haven't heard of any more driveline vibrations since.

There was also one car with a blown turbo that circulated on facebook, but that happens from time to time. It wasn't uncommon with turbo Falcons getting noisey Garrett turbos straight out of the box. I went to Broady a few times to change them out after it was picked up on the initial test loop after the vehicle came off the line. When you think about how many turbos Garrett must build in a year, you are bound to get a few duds. They must manufacture millions of them.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Sort of correct, zero interest from private/small business buyers, incorrect with platinum and government departments, they are on a different level so they usually will only buy XL product.

I didn’t dismiss platinum as it is high series……

Governments buying XL Ranger?
Not when they can get cheaper 2WD and 4WD Utes from other manufacturers.
That’s why Ford only sells 300 odd 2WD Rangers a month

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I didn’t dismiss platinum as it is high series……

Governments buying XL Ranger?
Not when they can get cheaper 2WD and 4WD Utes from other manufacturers.
That’s why Ford only sells 300 odd 2WD Rangers a month

Market opportunity there I reckon.......

Ford can't fight on price, but they can fight on availability which is their biggest strength at the moment.

Hilux - 6 months
XL Ranger? Got one right here, got plenty, how many you want? Can have em all yesterday. Sign here and watch it appear in your driveway.

At least they can clear the stock of the XL/XLS they apparently have sitting around, even if its a bit more pricey you can have it sooner than the others and thats worth the extra to a customer who wants no fuss/no bull**** and wants something ASAP.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Market opportunity there I reckon.......

Ford can't fight on price, but they can fight on availability which is their biggest strength at the moment.

Hilux - 6 months
XL Ranger? Got one right here, got plenty, how many you want? Can have em all yesterday. Sign here and watch it appear in your driveway.

At least they can clear the stock of the XL/XLS they apparently have sitting around, even if its a bit more pricey you can have it sooner than the others and thats worth the extra to a customer who wants no fuss/no bull**** and wants something ASAP.

Think about this,
The Ute availability thing didn’t just happen, it’s been with us more or less for two years.
People not wanting XL, XLS is not going to suddenly change because available at dealers.
If that was a thing, they’d already be selling quick…..

What the XL and XLS builds do is deny production space for more high series builds.
Thailand plant supplies Australia plus domestic and other markets, all they need do is
change the tim mix for Australia to a richer mix and give local dealers more of the desirable
trims like Wildtrak, Platinum, Sports & RR.

[prydey]

If Ford offered the XL standard with the bi turbo instead of the single turbo, and free choice of ute body and still kept the price around $45k d/a then they might get more interest but as it stands they treat those at the shallow end of the pool as not worthy.

Once you option them to the basic level that most people would they are nudging over $60k.

I don't think availability would make a scrap of difference to all but a very small minority of businesses.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

If Ford offered the XL standard with the bi turbo instead of the single turbo, and free choice of ute body and still kept the price around $45k d/a then they might get more interest but as it stands they treat those at the shallow end of the pool as not worthy.

Once you option them to the basic level that most people would they are nudging over $60k.

I don't think availability would make a scrap of difference to all but a very small minority of businesses.

Post of the thread!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

If Ford offered the XL standard with the bi turbo instead of the single turbo, and free choice of ute body and still kept the price around $45k d/a then they might get more interest but as it stands they treat those at the shallow end of the pool as not worthy.

Once you option them to the basic level that most people would they are nudging over $60k.

I don't think availability would make a scrap of difference to all but a very small minority of businesses.

Well said, the XL is trying to compete against Utes that are a lot cheaper to purchase
and clearly, only a few people want the Ranger XL and are prepared to pay more for it.

Sure, you could change this or that but it competes in a price sensitive sub segment.

[simon varley]

the single turbo is still a really good engine. I think the problem might be that it wasn't available here in PX3 (I think?) and nobody is game to give it a drive to find out

[prydey]

Originally Posted by simon varley

the single turbo is still a really good engine. I think the problem might be that it wasn't available here in PX3 (I think?) and nobody is game to give it a drive to find out

125kw and 405Nm and still sent to the wheels via a 6sp...

My territory has better specs and its 10years old.

Toyota offer the 2.8 in everything except possibly workmate 4x2, and around $10k cheaper.

Why not offer a bare bones model that still has the same ability (towing etc) as more premium models?

I'd find it hard to believe if it was claimed to not be profitable for them.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by simon varley

the single turbo is still a really good engine. I think the problem might be that it wasn't available here in PX3 (I think?) and nobody is game to give it a drive to find out

Unless it produces some amazing economy. its just doesn't have enough torque compared to the competition.

perhaps the 2.3 ecoboost with todays diesel prices would be a better option.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

125kw and 405Nm and still sent to the wheels via a 6sp...

My territory has better specs and its 10years old.

Toyota offer the 2.8 in everything except possibly workmate 4x2, and around $10k cheaper.

Why not offer a bare bones model that still has the same ability (towing etc) as more premium models?

I'd find it hard to believe if it was claimed to not be profitable for them.

Don't Toyota have a smaller 2.4 TD in cheaper grades? I'm pretty sure they do.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Don't Toyota have a smaller 2.4 TD in cheaper grades? I'm pretty sure they do.

Yeah its in workmate - 2.4L TD 110Kw/400Nm

So its worse than whats on offer in the new Ranger.

4x2 Hi-Rider Hilux Workmate Single Cab w 2.4L TD - $35,729 DA - you can't go non hi-rider variant in 4x2.

4x4 in normal spec Hilux Workmate single cab w 2.4L TD - $46,705 DA - what an absolute joke for that ****box. This is the only way you can get the non hi-rider variant in diesel.

The 2.4L TD is about $3000 more than the 2.7L unleaded variation.

Given the price of diesel compared to unleaded it makes you wonder if its worth the $3000 premium.

Whats 4x2 Ranger XL single cab w 2.0L TD worth?

I don't think they even do a single cab - its not on their build and price on their website? Why would you not have a single cab Ranger?

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by simon varley

the single turbo is still a really good engine. I think the problem might be that it wasn't available here in PX3 (I think?) and nobody is game to give it a drive to find out

It is, more than enough for a run about or work ute, I think the negativity towards it are from the people who are going to be towing warriors and are going to go four wheel driving every second week which, in reality, they never actually go four wheel driving or tow anything?

Also, Transit Custom has been doing fine as a work van using it.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yeah its in workmate - 2.4L TD 110Kw/400Nm

So its worse than whats on offer in the new Ranger.

4x2 Hi-Rider Hilux Workmate Single Cab w 2.4L TD - $35,729 DA - you can't go non hi-rider variant in 4x2.

4x4 in normal spec Hilux Workmate single cab w 2.4L TD - $46,705 DA - what an absolute joke for that ****box. This is the only way you can get the non hi-rider variant in diesel.

The 2.4L TD is about $3000 more than the 2.7L unleaded variation.

Given the price of diesel compared to unleaded it makes you wonder if its worth the $3000 premium.

Whats 4x2 Ranger XL single cab w 2.0L TD worth?

I don't think they even do a single cab - its not on their build and price on their website? Why would you not have a single cab Ranger?

The budget ute is all about cost of ownership, Im an advocate for the diesel despite the 3 grand premium, but todays diesel prices sort of screws that theory.
the unleaded would be the better option, especially if the diesel is a slug

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by barra240t

It is, more than enough for a run about or work ute, I think the negativity towards it are from the people who are going to be towing warriors and are going to go four wheel driving every second week which, in reality, they never actually go four wheel driving or tow anything?

That’s not the issue, the problem Ford have with Ranger XL is that it’s not on the target audience’s list.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

4x4 in normal spec Hilux Workmate single cab w 2.4L TD - $46,705 DA - what an absolute joke for that ****box. This is the only way you can get the non hi-rider variant in diesel.

Is it really Franco, I'd have said the bigger joke was that Toyota ask that because Aussies are stupid enough to pay it, can hardly blame the manufacturers with that in mind.
Theres not a new car on the market worth what we get asked but whilst we continue to accept being shafted they'll gladly oblige.
If people got over themselves and refused to pay the inflated figures the price would come down which is exactly whats happening with XL/S right now.
Ford arent going to abandon our market for Ranger if its one of their biggest so refusing to pay rediculous premiums will only result in those profits being trimmed to keep the volume moving.

Problem is, Aussies spend big to remain relevant amongst their peers be it houses or cars.

Stupidity at its finest from the smartest people in the room apparently.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Theres not a new car on the market worth what we get asked .

FG XR6 was about $36k d/a in its day and most would say that was reasonable. We paid about $35k d/a for our Escape and it runs rings around falcon in pretty much every way in my view. Is it worth it?? All I know is it's a lot of car for the money.

I agree about the utes though.

[.:4:.]

Im still unsure as to why the basic ute pretty much is a thing of the past. I had a base 2013 2.2L ranger, single cab low rider, 6 speed manual as a work car. Would i buy one as a personal car? Nope. Yes it was not fast, however it did what it needed to do very well. It had a canopy on the back so could carry heaps of stock and tools. I frequently towed +- 2 tonnes with it and it did that sorta ok. Interior wise it was nice enough, vynal floors for a work ute is a good thing. No touch screen radio, again for a work ute thats a good thing.
That got replaced in december 2019 with a new storm trooper triton. So probably the cheapest diesel ute on the market. Still 2wd, but they all are hi riders and again single cab. This one was a cab chassis but had a nice caddy service body put on the back. Similar basic interior, but a touch screen radio (smudge screen), but this one was an auto. For the kays i did at that job, the auto was nice. I still reckon the clutch and gearbox in the ranger are the best i have had for a manual. the extra power of the mitsubishi 2.4 diesel was noticeable. Still towed as frequently the same sized trailers and it was nicer to tow with, probably due to being an auto. The main detractor about the storm trooper was, well, god they are ugly.
But both those utes were everything you need and a little more. Not luxury an any form of the word, but comfortable seats, drove good but only loaded, served the utility purpose perfectly fine. I did manage to get my old manager to spill the cost of both those basic utes one day. 2.2 XL ranger with the canopy, 31k. Storm trooper diesel auto with service body, 37k. The mitsubishi was run out pricing though for the base cab chassis.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Is it really Franco, I'd have said the bigger joke was that Toyota ask that because Aussies are stupid enough to pay it, can hardly blame the manufacturers with that in mind.
Theres not a new car on the market worth what we get asked but whilst we continue to accept being shafted they'll gladly oblige.
If people got over themselves and refused to pay the inflated figures the price would come down which is exactly whats happening with XL/S right now.
Ford arent going to abandon our market for Ranger if its one of their biggest so refusing to pay rediculous premiums will only result in those profits being trimmed to keep the volume moving.

Problem is, Aussies spend big to remain relevant amongst their peers be it houses or cars.

Stupidity at its finest from the smartest people in the room apparently.

The only reason for these prices is that the two local options got iced 5 years ago, you'd never have single cab $46K 2.4L Hilux 4x4 when there was sub $30K DA Falcon single cab on the market.

You can see now why 10 year old EcoLPI Falcon utes are still fetching above $20K on the used market, or those 2001-2006 F250/F350 going for $80K with 300,000km on the clock of the 7.3s.

Its the same as suddenly how everyone pulled out of the micro-car segment except KIA and now the Picanto GT has a $6000 price rise on a car that was selling for $19K DA a couple years ago - because everyone else abandoned the segment except Kia and now they're taking those sales for the few who want those options.

Same with the small car segment - now there's basically only the Kia Rio and the Suzuki Swift, again big price rises because less competition, even then Kia is still using the same 6sp auto and 1.4L engine they've been using for 10 years.

Its not so much people being stupid its the manufacturers exploiting market conditions, at the end of the day there isn't really 'competition' between them at the bottom end of the market, until one goes above and beyond, and so far Ford is the first one to suddenly come out with an option at the high end of the market.

Its not competition when you all offer the same spec vehicles in the same price with the same engine options with very minor details between them.

The market can only buy what the market is offered, plenty of people here were saying that no one wanted decently powerful Thailand Specials because the market buys the diesel 4 cylinder dual cabs en masse, suddenly Ford is the first one who comes out with high powered Thailand Specials and you can't get your hands on one for 12-18 months?

It wasn't that no one wanted them, its that no one offered it to the market, suddenly someone does and now they can't keep up with demand. The market wanted it, you just didn't offer it.

Makes it mightily difficult for Toyota to justify the prices for their top end of the Thailand Specials when Ford comes out with Ranger Raptor, Ranger Wildtrack and XLT et al with V6 diesel options, 10sp autos and as well as a 292KW twin turbo monster.

Where as Toyota has a 2.8L diesel engine and wants to charge you $75K DA for their sticker pack with a bullbar.

I think what we'll see either Toyota pulls their finger out with the Hilux, or is content with being the low end of the Thailand Special market king while Ford is content with being the upper end of the Thailand Special market king.

Look at the VFACTS figures by manufacturer rather than models - you can fit the Queen Mary II between Toyota and second place, they have high numbers represented across all segments they compete in, not just one model selling numbers in a couple specs.

Makes me wonder about a single cab Raptor to compete with the VDJ79, you look at them both on the hoist in that clip I linked and the underneath of the Raptor makes the VDJ79 look like a Thailand Special made out of Maccas straws