Alleged War Crimes by Australian Soldiers

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by lra

Why has this uninformed, antagonist, un-Australian post not been deleted.

His been doing that for 10 years. Country that looks after him is not to his standard.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

His been doing that for 10 years. Country that looks after him is not to his standard.

Got that right.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by lra

Why has this uninformed, antagonist, un-Australian post not been deleted.

The post hasn't broken any rules that I know of as we don't have rules against being unpatriotic or ignorant.

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by lra

Why has this uninformed, antagonist, un-Australian post not been deleted.

We allow free speech so idiots are more easily identified.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

The post hasn't broken any rules that I know of as we don't have rules against being unpatriotic or ignorant.

I'm sure some posts would have been deleted on moral grounds if not appropriate, don't get me wrong I'm not telling you how to do your job.

[MITCHAY]

These ****s are common here in Straya. They have parents from other countries and despite never going there for a visit let alone living there in the motherland, it is better and and it sucks here.

Never think why their parents went through it all to come here and they are born here and not over there

For the record my mums side is Hungarian. She said it is BS what these blokes are going through and they are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a trial.

[Cav]

OPINION: PM complicit in attack on the ‘meritorious many’



I am not an alarmist by nature; but I am a proud Australian veteran with 16 years of service including combat in Afghanistan.

It was insulting enough to suffer the Chief of the Defence Force threatening to write to the Governor General to remove the Meritorious Unit Citation from every special operations soldier who had served in Afghanistan between April 2007 and December 2013.

This threat has done untold psychological and emotional damage to veterans and their families, those living and deceased.

It has inevitably led to a heightened instance of suicide or the contemplation of such a final act within our veteran community.

I have expressed publicly, on the behalf of veterans, my anger and anguish at such a callus response to the Brereton report, which the Prime Minister acknowledged he had not read.



This threat has opened old wounds in a way that politicians, defence hierarchy and civilians may not understand.

However, it is now clear that this threat had been contemplated months before the release of the Brereton Report.

The Letters Patent providing for the award of the Meritorious Unit Citation, not to individuals but to a unit, were issued by Her Majesty the Queen on the 15th of January 1991. They were countersigned by Prime Minister Hawke.

Those Letters Patent did not provide any powers to revoke the citation from a unit – namely any Special Operations Task Group, or Task Force 66.

That will be transparent in the documents attached.

It now transpires that the response by General Campbell to the report via the threat to write the Governor General was not spontaneous.

Sadly, the Prime Minister appears complicit in all of this because, well before the release of the report, and presumably anyone’s ability to read it, changes were made to the Letters Patent, dated July 13, 2020.

The Brereton Report was released on November 19, 2020. That is five months after the Prime Minister’s changes to the Letters Patent giving powers to the Governor General to revoke the Citation from an entire unit, not the revoking of the right to wear, but the total revocation of the Citation, innocent and guilty alike.

And this extreme change, without any public announcement, without any public debate, without any public scrutiny, and I presume without any endorsement from the parliament of Australia, has been countersigned by the Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrision – five months before the release of the report.

In other words, the psychological, emotional and traumatic damage to Australia’s service men and women had been planned months in advance of the report’s release, a report that is now still to be investigated and tested.

I have said before, that this goes to the very heart of our constitutional and democratic rights – the constitutional obligation to the proper defence of the nation has been seriously compromised by the threat to the morale of those serving, those who have served and those a government would hope to recruit to serve.

The simple threat to our democratic fabric derives from the denial of the presumption of innocence by so called credible information that has not been tested in a court of law.

I hereby call upon the Prime Minister to explain his actions to change the Letters Patent months prior to the release of the Brereton Report. To explain what recommendations were provided to him and by whom, and to produce these documents for review.

I call upon all parliamentarians, as our elected representatives, to challenge why these actions were allowed to occur.

How and without any accompanying plans or actions to support our veterans and their families who have been gravely impacted by the actions of our Prime Minister and his senior defence leaders.

I further demand, on behalf of all veterans, an apology from the Prime Minister, the Minister for Defence, the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, the Chief of the Defence Force and the Chief of Army, for the reckless and calculated damage that has been done.

The more than 65,000 Australians who have joined our petition to “Maintain the Memory of the Meritorious Many” at voiceofaveteran.org deserve a response.

I suspect that millions of others, if they knew of the background to all of this, would feel similarly.

Heston Russell
Former Special Forces Officer
& Founder of Voice Of A Veteran

[LG17]

I have no words as a true response to that Cav.
Maybe gutter politics from a gutter politician...

[Cav]

This is from Ray Payne

BRS is Ben Roberts-Smith


The following has come to me from Susan Roberts-Smith. Ray


When BRS left the defence force in 2013 the WO1 started the rumours about BRS. The WO1 was given immunity to be a source of information to the Brereton Inquiry. He has now been exposed. He was also the main source of information to Fairfax Media.



I have been saying for some time the Brereton Inquiry is flawed. I am sure Justice Mark Weinberg who has been appointed special Investigator into the Brereton Inquiry will discover all the corruption as he works his way through the rumours and allegations.



In this instance, the WO1 said that BRS had taken the prosthetic leg from a dead Taliban and had bought it back into Australia. How lucky are we that a trooper has come forward with a video of the WO1 taking the leg off the body and keeping it as a trophy. Photos of the WO1 taking the leg, in his back pack, through the airport have also turned up!



The WO1 acolytes gave sworn statements to the Inquiry including seeing BRS remove the leg from the dead Taliban and seeing BRS take the leg through the airport! The photos and videos have unravelled that story. They have also given false information regarding a number of other issues that they placed on BRS. This was done on the promise that they would get immunity from prosecution. - That is no longer going to happen and they are trying to extract themselves from the pending defamation action.



The leg was used as a drinking vessel and the two soldiers seen drinking from it in these photos are being stood down.



There are many more photos and videos to come of soldiers drinking from this prosthetic leg. Obviously, those in higher authority who have stood silently by do not realise there are photos and videos ready to expose them. Some are extremely high ranking officers - will they stand down?



I am proud to say the only person who did not drink from the leg and made it known that he would not drink from the leg was BRS! - That's my boy!



The interesting and complex situation is that the investigation into the Inquiry will commence in January led by Justice Weinberg. The defamation case will be in June before The Hon James Anthony Bezanko, who has already delayed the case to ensure that FFX Media can not come back and delay it further. It should have been all over in November 2019! I believe the Court has superiority over the Investigation so I hope they both come to the same conclusions. Justice will prevail.



I could not have wished for a greater gift than this one at Christmas. We are on our way to truth and justice in 2021.





Ray Payne OAM

Veteranweb Network

[MITCHAY]

Heston Russell is getting himself out there a lot. I think he is well spoken and a lot of Aussies know that the chain of command and politicians are failing our defence force and he is tapping into that.

As for BRS, he has been dragged through the mud. I remember years back after he appeared on one of these current affairs programs and people were taking shots. Disgraceful.

[Cav]

This is a follow-on from my previous post and names the WO1 regarding the prosthetic leg.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-fake-leg.html

[Cav]

[LG17]

Cav you are a treasure trove!

[Crazy Dazz]

Seems we have learnt nothing since Viet Nam.
Once again soldiers, who put their lives on the line for their country, are being scapegoated by the politicians that sent them.

First and foremost, if you believe somebody has committed a crime, you investigate quietly, then lay charges, and they are tried in the appropriate court, with the right to defend themselves, the ability to confront their accusers, and the presumption of innocence.

War is ****. This kind of war, against an enemy that doesn't wear a uniform and uses women and children, is doubly ****. Bad things happen.

I was offered a job in Afghanistan, working for one of the huge contractors, as a Financial Controller, based on the big base. I jokingly asked if I got to carry a gun, and they informed me that yes I would supplied with a gun, body armour, an armoured vehicle, and a bodyguard/ driver. Just to operate within the base. It was then I realised that this wasn't the great adventure I imagined, and yeah, I chickened out. Oh, and to work on that base, not the front lines, I was going to earn probably 5 times what an experienced soldier does.

Whilst some of the claims just seem fanciful. Ie "executing prisoners in full view of witnesses" I've no doubt that some nasty **** went down.
I would however comfortably predict that it was nothing compared to the atrocities committed by the Taliban. Very few of us could do what the SASR does. I couldn't even be an accountant there, so I refuse to judge them by my standards.

[Cav]

Ben Roberts-Smith, Victoria Cross recipient and Australia war hero, pictured with prosthetic leg

Australia’s most decorated living soldier has been caught out by leaked photos that directly contradict comments from his lawyers in court.

You can read the article here ...

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...2f43abc42a53b1

But I'll save you the bother.

Well, the question is: Did BRS drink from the prosthetic leg?

Here is the evidence that contradicts his lawyer's statement.





Pricks

[Crazy Dazz]

It's gross, but then I have never understood the fascination some people have with drinking out of trophies, "trophies", and other such stuff.
You certainly wouldn't catch me drinking out of some filthy-**** fake leg.

But ultimately, so what? It's irrelevant.
The implied connotation, that they did this so they must also be guilty of all the other allegations, is nonsense.

Gross as it may be, what exactly is the crime here?

[FTE217]

Agreed Crazy but this is todays media and minority groups noise.
Gross yes for me also but just as stoopid Ricarrdo in F1 drinking from his sweaty shoe like wtf but it takes all types and I wouldn't judge them over that and antic as such.

[Cav]

This iconic speech tells what REAL soldiering is all about.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Cav

This iconic speech tells what REAL soldiering is all about.

Yep, that is one of my favourite quotes.

We like to get all warm and fuzzy when our armed forces go on humanitarian or peace-keeping missions. But we forget that the primary job of a soldier is to kill people.

As is always the case, I've no doubt that some of the Afghanies were good people. Sons, Fathers, and Brothers, doing what they believed was best. Or even coerced into fighting for the Taliban. But such is the nature of war. Politicians decide who is the enemy, and the soldiers simply carry out their orders

[Cav]

Originally Posted by LG17

Cav you are a treasure trove!

Well OK confession time

I am a Vietnam Veteran, I served with an Infantry unit - 2 RAR/NZ (ANZAC) Bn in 70 /71 in Vietnam.

I have written a book on my experience as a Nasho

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07PF67...QZlc74RMiaYD54

But if you send me your email address to iancavanough@gmail.com I'll send you a digital copy gratis, free, for nix.

But be warned there are plenty of pics of me.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by Cav

Well OK confession time

I am a Vietnam Veteran, I served with an Infantry unit - 2 RAR/NZ (ANZAC) Bn in 70 /71 in Vietnam.

I have written a book on my experience as a Nasho

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07PF67...QZlc74RMiaYD54

But if you send me your email address to iancavanough@gmail.com I'll send you a digital copy gratis, free, for nix.

But be warned there are plenty of pics of me.

I figured you were a returned soldier. You won the lottery that I didn't.

[Cav]

From: Gordon Simpson
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 5:30 PM
To: senator.reynolds@aph.gov.au
Subject: 2 SAS SQN

Dear Reynolds,

I am writing to you as a former member of 2 Sqn.

I graduated from RMC DUNTROON on 13 Dec 66 and
was posted to SASR effective from 14 Dec 66. After
completing the acceptance Cadre I was appointed
to E Troop, 2 Sqn as troop commander and remained
with the Squadron until Aug 68.

During that time I served in TPNG [as it was known then]
and the Republic of Vietnam on active service. I was
awarded the Military Cross in Jun 68 but subsequently
had my legs blown off in Jul 68. After recovery in Australia
I was again posted to SASR as the Adjutant in Oct 68
remaining in this position until May 69.

My Troop, E Troop, was the most highly decorated sub
unit in SASR accumulating one MC, one MM and three
MiDs during the tour of operations. Nine members were
WIA and a number of troopers suffered from the usual
tropical diseases. So much for our bona fides.

Now to the present. You, CDF Campbell and CA Burr
have acted disgracefully in your reaction to the Bereton
report. Your collective over reaction and completely
stupid and thoughtless statements have certainly destroyed
any faith we, the veterans of SAS operations may have had.
Our trust in the probity of the command structure was
severely tested during the unfortunate tenure of Morrison
as CA now we have you and your coterie prolonging the
agony.

Please go now. Resign and and take your cohorts with you.
I had hoped the PM Morrison would grasped the nettle and
terminated your commission but politics and State interests
intervened.

If you believe this letter is a one off reaction from a disgruntled
former member think again because you have little idea of
the anger you and your miserable command group have caused.

GL Simpson

[snap0964]

Seems like the stitch up was occurring long before this report was released:

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6227959230001

Sky News host Alan Jones has discussed latest in the fallout of the "infamous" Brereton report with retired special forces commando Heston Russell.

"Well, most probably to the disappointment of the Morrison government, let me go back to where we ended last year and the infamous Brereton report
and the work of our commandos who were recruited in Sydney, and the SAS, whose base was in Perth," Mr Jones said. Mr Russell spoke of how he travelled
to Perth to meet with several families affected by the report.
He discussed one of the stories relating to a man who has, since March of 2020, been removed from his job, lost his allowances and been "degraded to a point
where he's had two admissions to hospital and has been on suicide watch since then".
"And there's no charges against these people," Sky News host Alan Jones said.
"It's very, very distressing and I think the Australian public are absolutely appalled," Mr Jones said.

[Cav]

If you wanna know about the SAS in Afghanistan I can send you a digital copy of this book - 211 pages

Message me ya email address.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Cav

If you wanna know about the SAS in Afghanistan I can send you a digital copy of this book - 211 pages

Message me ya email address.

image

Will I get deck pics?

[Cav]

Here is a list of the top brass, and the awards they received, for their command during the time the alleged war crimes were being committed by their men as outlined in the Brereton Report.







The Distinguished Service Cross (DSC) is a military decoration awarded to personnel of the Australian Defence Force. It is awarded for distinguished command and leadership in action. The DSC was introduced in 1991 and is the highest distinguished service decoration in the Australian Honours System.

[MITCHAY]

Both the current CDF and CA held commands in Afghanistan and were awarded the DSC too. I'm not sure why it is not listed above but perhaps it was a different command.

[Junkyard-Dog]

I have actually spent a considerable amount of time researching this very topic.

In a nutshell, some Australian soldiers have committed war crimes in Afghanistan. These crimes are not commonplace and in general, Australian servicemen (and women) have conducted themselves honourably in that conflict zone. Criminality is not a widespread issue in our armed forces and reported breaches of RoE are investigated thoroughly.

Unlike US forces, you can't find images of Australian soldiers posing with the deceased remains of murdered civilians after all...

[Cav]

War crimes office has no investigators

A new office set up to build cases against up to 19 alleged war criminals still has no investigators more than four months after it was announced.

Office of the special investigator director-general Chris Moraitis told Senate estimates on Monday said the body, created following the Brereton war crimes inquiry, was unlikely to commence any investigations “for at least a couple of months”.

The OSP currently had 19 personnel, but was yet to bring any AFP agents or state police detectives on board.

Mr Moraitis said he hoped secondments from state and federal police would deliver “some of their best”, with the first investigators starting work within 1-3 months.

He said he hoped to build a team of 75 investigators in time.

Mr Moraitis warned of “legal complexities” in investigating the allegations, because evidence gathered in coercive interviews conducted by Justice Paul Brereton was not admissible in court.

He said the OSP had been working for the past ten weeks with a special counsel from the Australian Government Solicitor, Tim Begbie QC, who was reviewing and “quarantining” evidence obtained through the Brereton inquiry.

“This process will help ensure investigators will only receive information they can lawfully obtain and use in criminal investigations and any future criminal proceedings,” Mr Moraitis said.

“Given the size and complexity of the task, the work of the special counsel is expected to take some time.”

He warned complexity around evidence collection was likely to increase over time, given the alleged offences occurred about a decade ago.

[Cav]

We need a laugh sometimes ...

Pinched from the interweb

Brigadier Ponsonby had only been in the Ministry of Defence legal department for six months, but already he felt as if it was a lifetime. He slowly raised his head to look directly at his senior barrister.

"A goat?" "Yes Sir", replied the barrister. "It's an historical case. A regimental goat was demoted for inappropriate behaviour in 2006. The RSPCA have picked up on it and gone legal on us. They're arguing that as there was no fluent goat speakers at his summary trial, he wasn't fairly represented. We've also got the Equalities Commission complaining of gender bias".

The Brigadier sunk into his chair. "Gender bias?" "Apparently so Sir. Historically, all regimental goats tend to be male".

Ponsonby mulled this for a moment. "Can't we put up a defence that the goat is actually transgender?" The barrister looked grave. "Afraid not, due to having no fluent goat linguist. The Trans lobby are suing us as well, for denying the goat a right to choose its own gender. They've employed a goat whisperer, and claim to have a full statement from the goat listing a litany of abuses".

"For Christ's sake!", shouted Ponsonby. "What abuses?" The barristers tone became serious. "I wouldn't let anyone hear you favouring Christianity, Sir. Not after the last case we lost. And as for further abuses, it appears that Regimental goats are given random scraps from the cookhouse. The vegetarian and vegan lobby are apoplectic about it".

His chair creaked, as the Brigadier slumped further. "What we need is a good old fashioned war to focus everyone's minds on what's really important".

An awkward silence descended until broken by the barrister. "War, Sir? I doubt we'd be able to afford to send the teams of lawyers to accompany the troops and give legal counsel when they engage the enemy. And it's not really fair to plough into a war without giving due consideration to the pacifist lobby. Besides, we can't send the aircraft carriers anymore.

We lost the case about the Chief Stoker yesterday".

"The Chief Stoker?", replied Ponsonby. "Yes Sir, it gets quite hot and sweaty in those engine rooms. She decided to go to the shower room and wash her testicles in the sink".

Ponsonby appeared staggered. "Her testicles? The sink? What's this got to do with not sending carriers to war?"

"She was previously born male, Sir. Caused quite a furore amongst the old fashioned, traditional females that were in the shower room at the time. Upshot is, we now have to convert the hangars into toilets, shower rooms and safe spaces. There's simply no room for aircraft after that."

"What on earth.....", stuttered Ponsonby. "How much space can they possibly need...." "Well Sir, there's the normal traditional spaces, then the ones for pre op, the ones for post op, those who choose not to identify, those who are transitioning, those who are transition back again, it's a long list and not really comprehensive. The cottaging lobby are up in arms, as are the pansexuals. It's difficult to keep everyone happy, and we've had three new, distinct groups emerge just since yesterday. We may need new carriers to accommodate them all...."

Ponsonby thought hard. "What if we just sent men to sea? Like the old days."

"Which men Sir? We've now got 23 sub categories of men. And that's just the ones that were born as men. We have to think about the ones who now identify as men as well. And we haven't even got round to cataloguing those with hurt feelings. They've been totally overlooked, Sir. We can't be seen to discriminate".

Anger rose in Ponsonby's face. "The bloody Army in disarray!, the bloody Navy in disarray!, why don't we get all these problems with the RAAF?".

The barrister smiled. "Luckily, the RAAF have always catered for this sort of thing. And they've cornered the market in dealing with hurt feelings. We did try to impose their system within the Army and Navy, but the bill for 4 star hotels was simply unaffordable. They're very progressive, Sir. The only branch of the Services to fully embrace face masks during the pandemic, although I've no idea why they insist on rubber ones".

Ponsonby was about to respond, when the phone rang. He picked it up, and chatted briefly, whilst turning a sickly grey colour, before replacing the receiver and sitting in stunned silence.

The barrister broke the ice. "Problem, Sir?". An ashen faced Ponsonby looked at the barrister. "Problem! Bloody problem!??. Someone took the decision to accommodate an infantry regiment at a bloody Navy base, last night! That's the problem!!!"

Confusion crossed the barristers face. "I don't understand Sir. How could that cause a problem? This sort of thing happens all the time."

Ponsonby looked ashen. He was a broken man. "I'll tell you the problem. The problem is, they took their Regimental goat! We're looking at 127 separate lawsuits, possible financial ruin, and a civilian contractor that won't be able to sit down properly for months! We're flying in trauma councillors from around the world, and lawyers are forming mobs around the perimeter fence! That's the problem!".

The barrister, embarrassed, broke eye contact and stared out of the window. Ponsonby calmly opened the drawer of his desk, and took out the revolver that had been passed down through the military generations of his family. There really was only one way out of this.

Disclaimer. This ditty is so far, untrue. Any similarities to anyone living or dead is entirely coincidental, except for the bit about the RAAF, rubber masks and 4 star hotels!

William "Billy" Windsor Is a real life character and is a cashmere goat who served as a lance corporal in the 1st Battalion, the Royal Welsh, an infantry battalion of the British Army. He served as a lance corporal from 2001 until 2009, except for a three-month period in 2006 when he was demoted to fusilier, after "inappropriate behaviour" during the Queen's Official Birthday celebrations while deployed on active duty with the battalion on Cyprus. He retired to Whipsnade Zoo in May 2009. He did not, to my knowledge, ever carry out an unspeakable act on a civilian contractor, although I still fully expect a letter from his lawyers in the future.