Miss T did a 10

[greencapri408]

sounds like you have it all figured out
cops could defect any car if they wanted too

[russxr67]

Originally Posted by 66 coupe

Brads converter is showing a 5% slip, based on the data in this thread.
I wouldnt be worried about the converter, and if there is infact an issue with the converter there will be no problem getting it sorted out. Doubt it though.

The car is 60ft'ing very well, if anything the car is pulling back a little bit 1/2 track onwards. Might be some improvment playing with settings on the rancho's but thats not really going to affect mph - only the 60ft.


I will catch up with Brad one day and go over a few things, ie install a wideband so we can log AFR's, check fuel filter, disable or increase the rev limiter on the CDI (just incase its braking down early), another set of plugs etc etc.

Russ maybe can recheck tappet clearances if he thinks necessary and then once back on the track maybe one of us can sit in for a few passes to keep an eye on fuel pressure gauge etc as its too hard for Brad to look at while hes driving down the 1/4.

Keep in mind Brad has built the car and it has gone straight to the track, we have not messed around with any of the parameters of the car, so there will be room for improvement.
However < 1.60 60ft and 10.9x pretty much straight out of his garage is nothing to complain about, more so due to the fact that this is his street car and not a track car.
Yes everyone wants big HP numbers and to run 9's but you need to stop and look at the practical side of things at some stage.

At the end of the day Brad is still smiling as hes achieved what he set out to acheive in the beginning and that was 500 odd hp and 11 sec passes. Hes in the 10's and there may be a bit more in it, so whatever more he gains without opening the motor will make his smile bigger again


Also this is something i've had bookmarked for some time - maybe it might be of interest to some of you http://www.hardtail.com/techtips/analizingtimeslip.html

This is probably about the only intelligent post in this whole thread.

I checked the lash a few weeks ago Jamie. They were all pretty much spot on.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by greencapri408

sounds like you have it all figured out
cops could defect any car if they wanted too

Ok ill leave it at that

[prasac]

with the turbo engine now, got 8000rpm Neal Chance torque converter in the Capri at the moment with 3.5 diff gears, you would never have guessed it, drives like a normal car.

the old old 302W motor back in 1988 had a 3500rpm Dominator i think it was, ran 11.5's, 60' in the 1.6's, daily driven. Norm @ Northmead Auto Centre built the C4 (been building box for all our cars for 20 years now), trans oil was being changed only once or twice a year, was taken out fortnightly to street meets.

302W (around 1998-1999), had a 5500-6000rpm TCE converter, it was daily car for 2 years, was doing 300km+ a week and racing at least every 2-3 weeks. ran mid 10's, didn't miss a beat on the road or strip. required very very minimal maintenance.

greencapri408 is correct, sit down have a chat with the gearbox builder and the torque converter guy and work out exactly what you want and were trying to achieve. feed them as much data as u can, and u should come out with the best combo possible. the best thing you can do is surround yourself with people that know their stuff, if you aren't sure of something don't be afraid to ask questions.

if he is 60'in 1.56 the converter is doing its job. thats a damn good 60' especially considering its had so few passes.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by brad24

On her second trip to the wednesday night street meet my XT started running high 10's
Can you fella's have a look at these two quickest time slips & tell me what you think.
The night was pretty warm & humid, with thunderstorms all round the track for most of the night.
Will the car run quicker in less humid weather?
We ran 8 passes, the first 2@ 11.0's, with another 5 passes 10.9's
image
image

Yes Brad, touch nothing else and the car will be quicker and faster in better air.

As has been mentioned, it's a little strange to spend pages discussing the "problem" with a street car that runs in the 10's on its second outing!

Short answer is you have no problem.

You mentioned the weather. There is a reason why so much weather information is given on time slips, and why data loggers contain weather stations. The weather directly affects the power output of your engine.

There is often intense discussion on forums about Dyno Vs time slip.

Dyno's measure horsepower (work done over time).

Time slips measure performance (work done over time).

So if they are measuring the same thing, work done over time, they should come up with the same result.

They often do, but dynos make "corrections" to the raw data to allow for the weather. Time slips show the power required to run a particular number on a particular day, they do not correct for the weather. That is why people (including me) refer to time slips as "real horse power" as in an actual measure of work done over time.

So if we take 602 horsepower your car made on the Dyno. Allow for any changes made when it was raced at the track in your car; different air cleaner, water pump, alternator, mufflers etc.

Then we need to reverse engineer the correctional factor for the weather. Plug in the weather conditions from your time slip on a calculator like this http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp.htm

It tells me in those weather conditions you will make about 95% of the power the Dyno showed.

So that’s less about 30hp before we add in any short comings in the converter, fuel system, suspension, your driving etc

Short answer is you have no problem.

[nugget378]

Riddle me this fella's,

The moroso calculates average power over a run by terminal speed using weight to come up with a power figure right?

So for interests sake lets say a car makes 600hp at 7000rpm, but at 6500 is only making 500hp.

This car crosses the finish line at 6500 because of gearing, and top gear is usually around half the track distance give or take.

How will the car EVER show the moroso calculated HP, since its NOT using its whole hp over the entire 400m?

It CANT, because it throws out the rigid maths calculation used......

Anyone who says it can, is either sandbagging, or doesn't understand how the moroso works..

[XT302]

Workhorse,Brad made 602 engine (wonder if alternator was fitted, I believe the rest is electrically operated) . 438 rear wheel, Brad was that at the end of the"tuning" session for a better word as a few things were changed and tried, maybe that figure is after the XT suffered heat soak? And on a fresh day may make more rear wheel power?

I suppose the unknown in The XT is how much power the convertor/auto, pipes/mufflers are sapping too? We know what the tail pipes are worth.

Regrettable as the examples already raised 430rwhp and 455 respectively have run 128/129 pretty consistently but like you say humidity played a part in Brads?

Nugget as for the Moroso never seen a street car get close and few super sedans and better have done claimed. But I'm not going to argue with a calculator that has been used by seasoned drag racers for years. My take on it is like any good tool it has it merits and downsides.

But it is clear Brad believes it should mph or et better or he wouldn't have asked the question.

Like I have already posted a few years 10s were unheard of, the XT is quick

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by XT302

Workhorse,Brad made 602 engine (wonder if alternator was fitted, I believe the rest is electrically operated) . 438 rear wheel, Brad was that at the end of the"tuning" session for a better word as a few things were changed and tried, maybe that figure is after the XT suffered heat soak? And on a fresh day may make more rear wheel power?

I suppose the unknown in The XT is how much power the convertor/auto, pipes/mufflers are sapping too? We know what the tail pipes are worth.

Regrettable as the examples already raised 430rwhp and 455 respectively have run 128/129 pretty consistently but like you say humidity played a part in Brads?

Nugget as for the Moroso never seen a street car get close and few super sedans and better have done claimed. But I'm not going to argue with a calculator that has been used by seasoned drag racers for years. My take on it is like any good tool it has it merits and downsides.

But it is clear Brad believes it should mph or et better or he wouldn't have asked the question.

Like I have already posted a few years 10s were unheard of, the XT is quick

Didnt we test the Moroso slide rule on the XT showed a 9 sec pass
There still might be hope.Dont want to hijack Brads efforts but the XT is a weapon nothing comes close

[Windsor]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Riddle me this fella's,

The moroso calculates average power over a run by terminal speed using weight to come up with a power figure right?

So for interests sake lets say a car makes 600hp at 7000rpm, but at 6500 is only making 500hp.

This car crosses the finish line at 6500 because of gearing, and top gear is usually around half the track distance give or take.

How will the car EVER show the moroso calculated HP, since its NOT using its whole hp over the entire 400m?

It CANT, because it throws out the rigid maths calculation used......


Anyone who says it can, is either sandbagging, or doesn't understand how the moroso works..

Nugget what 393 cubic inch street engine makes 600hp at 7000 but only 500 at 6500? Brad's beast makes 592hp at 6500. Brad's XT, The Rhino XYGT and the XTGT being discussed all run the same rear gearing and same diameter rear tyre so that is another variable out of the equation. Brad's XT has a problem which is not suspension or convertor related, hopefully himself and his team can get on top of it and run the numbers they are after.

Cheers,
Steve.B

[XR.1967]

Ok my 2c lol..
There is allways a few things people can do to improve there times but yer 10's second go out, Well done..
Try some front runners if you haven't allready.. (less drag)
I have a Gtech because a drag strip is 4 1/2 hrs away lol..
They work out your 1/4 mile times by Gforce..
The same with HP..
One thing I did read was, the HP on the Gtech will show less then the dyno, because one is dyno HP and the other is road HP..
The diffrence is air quality but the big thing was drag of the car (some cars have better drag then others) That can be areo, tyres, head wind or many other things..
Good luck with it ..
You should be happy no matter what..

[XT302]

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

Didnt we test the Moroso slide rule on the XT showed a 9 sec pass
There still might be hope.Dont want to hijack Brads efforts but the XT is a weapon nothing comes close

LOL

[brad24]

How much power would a alternator use?

[XT302]

Originally Posted by prasac

with the turbo engine now, got 8000rpm Neal Chance torque converter in the Capri at the moment with 3.5 diff gears, you would never have guessed it, drives like a normal car.

the old old 302W motor back in 1988 had a 3500rpm Dominator i think it was, ran 11.5's, 60' in the 1.6's, daily driven. Norm @ Northmead Auto Centre built the C4 (been building box for all our cars for 20 years now), trans oil was being changed only once or twice a year, was taken out fortnightly to street meets.

302W (around 1998-1999), had a 5500-6000rpm TCE converter, it was daily car for 2 years, was doing 300km+ a week and racing at least every 2-3 weeks. ran mid 10's, didn't miss a beat on the road or strip. required very very minimal maintenance.

greencapri408 is correct, sit down have a chat with the gearbox builder and the torque converter guy and work out exactly what you want and were trying to achieve. feed them as much data as u can, and u should come out with the best combo possible. the best thing you can do is surround yourself with people that know their stuff, if you aren't sure of something don't be afraid to ask questions.

if he is 60'in 1.56 the converter is doing its job. thats a damn good 60' especially considering its had so few passes.

Prasac,

Copy of the dyno sheet here

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...330073&page=11

Unfortunately dyno min starts at 4500 (300rpm below his current stall) but at 4500, it makes 507.4 with a Max of 515.6 at 5450, having a guess it would still make 500ftlbs at 4200, what do you reckon and extra 15-17FTLBS would give to the 60'?

[XT302]

Originally Posted by brad24

How much power would a alternator use?

Do you run a standard fan belt ? You can spin an alternator by hand, depending on belt I wouldn' think more than 5hp? Anyone disconnected one and seen a difference?

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by XT302

Nugget as for the Moroso never seen a street car get close and few super sedans and better have done claimed. But I'm not going to argue with a calculator that has been used by seasoned drag racers for years. My take on it is like any good tool it has it merits and downsides.

Then why are some saying it should run 128 or so mph?
Which would be about right on the moroso at its weight..

Originally Posted by XT302

But it is clear Brad believes it should mph or et better or he wouldn't have asked the question.

How is that clear???The first time he went out there was a problem and it was found it wasnt getting full throttle.

Brad has said to me, and in this thread he is happy..

Again the intent of you and your cronies is showing...

Brad this is what you should do next time, tell NO one what your dyno output was, wait till you race it, then look up the slide rule and claim that was what it made, claim it has a hydro F/T with 8:1 comp, and then you can become an instant internet hero.

[XT302]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Then why are some saying it should run 128 or so mph?
Which would be about right on the moroso at its weight..

How is that clear???The first time he went out there was a problem and it was found it wasnt getting full throttle.

Brad has said to me, and in this thread he is happy..

Again the intent of you and your cronies is showing...

Brad this is what you should do next time, tell know one what your dyno output was, wait till you race it, then look up the slide rule and claim that was what it made, claim it has a hydro F/T with 8:1 comp, and then you can become an instant internet hero.

Helps if you read the thread you want to blah blah blah in, 1st page his third post....

Originally Posted by brad24

On the engine dyno the egine showed 602Hp
We used Chaisty's dyno which is known for being stingy with its readings.
The car showed 438rwhp on a chassis dyno.

Any suggestions as to where the Hp would of gone to from engine dyno to drag strip if its only showing 540hp based on its mph & weight?

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by XT302

Helps if you want to read the thread you want to blah blah blah on about in

Dont confuse me for a fool, You know very well who put those ideas in his head, both on the forum and through private messages.

"showing" 540 moroso is damn good for a street car like his and about what should be expected, nobody told him that though did they?

[XT302]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Dont confuse me for a fool, You know very well who put those ideas in his head, both on the forum and through private messages.

What ever! again relevance too ME? Bark up the relevant tree and leave me alone , you are making yourself look like the fool...

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Windsor

Nugget what 393 cubic inch street engine makes 600hp at 7000 but only 500 at 6500?
Cheers,
Steve.B

Windsor, if you read my post correctly you will see the words "for interests sake" what Brads made at 6500 is not the point.

Do you have the maths calculation to show what a cars output is when it crosses the line at under its max hp rpm by so much and can work it out?

Thats the point.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Windsor, if you read my post correctly you will see the words "for interests sake" what Brads made at 6500 is not the point.

Do you have the maths calculation to show what a cars output is when it crosses the line at under its max hp rpm by so much and can work it out?

Thats the point.

I rekon get the owner of the XT on here for some advice hey,i don't think your making much sense your confusing the shiit out of every-one.

[Windsor]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Windsor, if you read my post correctly you will see the words "for interests sake" what Brads made at 6500 is not the point.

Do you have the maths calculation to show what a cars output is when it crosses the line at under its max hp rpm by so much and can work it out?

Thats the point.

Nugget leave the calculations to the likes of John Force, we are talking about humble street cars here.

Cheers,
Steve.B

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Windsor

Nugget leave the calculations to the likes of John Force, we are talking about humble street cars here.

Cheers,
Steve.B

Exactly..

And if you showed me a humble street car that matched the moroso, I would say the whole story isn't being told...

[JG33RD]

Brad congrats on the times, there was some discussion in a thread a while back about alloy headed cars not showing the track times to match the dyno, my car is the same. I'd be checking the plugs and just making sure you not leaning out and be done with that, I rember a post of yours in your engine build thread that said it's main purpose was street duties and the odd skid at the track, you and Russ have definately achieved that, hats of to you both.

[brad24]

Originally Posted by JG33RD

Brad congrats on the times, there was some discussion in a thread a while back about alloy headed cars not showing the track times to match the dyno, my car is the same. I'd be checking the plugs and just making sure you not leaning out and be done with that, I rember a post of yours in your engine build thread that said it's main purpose was street duties and the odd skid at the track, you and Russ have definately achieved that, hats of to you both.

Thanks mate

[XT302]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Exactly..

And if you showed me a humble street car that matched the moroso, I would say the whole story isn't being told...

So forget the Moroso , what should 602 engine horsepower run? Or the 10.94@123 is right?

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Windsor

Nugget leave the calculations to the likes of John Force, we are talking about humble street cars here.

Cheers,
Steve.B

John Force! Wow you’re as old as I am

I've watched him race and shaken his hand.

Do you reckon he still talks about me....

[XT302]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

John Force! Wow you’re as old as I am

I've watched him race and shaken his hand.

Do you reckon he still talks about me....

Windsor hasn't started his alcohol rail for 30years I doubt your that old...

[xf1101]

G,day,
A quick 2 cents worth here Brad, Forget about peak numbers Brad! The moroso numbers are an average hp used for that pass, end of story!
You need to dyno the engine at the same rpm rate / 1000 rpm as the car accelerates in top gear , look at average hp on the dyno in the same rpm range that the car will see at the track. ie from start line to finish line.
Then you will see numbers that you need to match.
It depends on how well the car is set up as to whether it will show those numbers.
Race cars should go very close.
Street cars it all depends, don't get hung up on it but if it is a streeter.
Well done with what you have achieved!
Cheers
Paul

[greencapri408]

my engine made 597 and ran 129.48
and its not setup for ***** 11.9s prove that

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by XT302

So forget the Moroso , what should 602 engine horsepower run? Or the 10.94@123 is right?

I thought you wanted me to "leave you alone".

I will say this, reading between the lines your questions' just a shifty way of saying YOU dont believe it made 600hp, and belittling Brad and Russ, saying the same thing, in a different way as your mate blocker/windsor/steveB/whoever it is...