The real GTS-R for Melborne

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by TE50 056

Go wheels magazine, sure your names not Ged 'Pulmer'

Those figures have absolutley nothing to do with Wheels mag... :

[Lightning Strike GT]

Originally Posted by myts

News flash: To counter HSV's new 370kw GTS-R, FPV 1972release new stripe package.!!





PS; I hope I'm wrong..

They will get the white GT stick some green stripes and a picture of a falcon on the rear panel and reinvent the SUPERBIRD of 1972 - it worked for the GT anniversary and the Cobra ones

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by HSE2

And my point is how do you know FPV haven't upgraded the ZF box? Where is the press release saying as much?

You know that the next box is too expensive yet you don’t know the torque rating? In other words you are guessing.

I couldn't remember exactly and didn't want to state the wrong number and have people go "you were 0.000534NM out so you are lying". People do tend to be a little sensitive around here. Especially when you question if Falcon is in fact Gods personal taxi.

Here are the specs for you.
6HP19A, Max Nm=420
6HP26 Max Nm=600
6HP26 , Max Nm=600
6HP32 , Max Nm=750
6HP32A , Max Nm= 770

Also you can get 6HP20 in different versions depending on their intended use or for specific brands.
6HP26A, Max Nm=600 (some say 650, but ZF have stated 600Nm) From memory the "A" boxes are for 4WD applications (ie Audi Quattro).
6HP26X, Max Nm=650, also 4WD application BMW X5 and Land Rover.

Ford use the plain Jane 6HP26 with a 600Nm rating, don't quote me (because its from a conversation last year) but for Fords numbers of 40k-50K per year they are about $2.3k each. The Higher Torque 6HP32, used in Rolls Royces and top end BMW's are $6.5k each. Ford Aus is not anywhere near a big enough player to get their own model and can't afford the price tag of the really strong box, even the Jag one is shared with Audi and BMW. Note VW do get their own model for use behind the W12.

So, sorry no press release, just a good mate in FPV for my info.

It makes you as bad as the people making technical assumptions on the 427.

Have you forgotten that FPV are using a specific clutch pack option on the ZF 6HP26. Ford seems to have had no issue with the 6HP26 in Landrovers producing 640nm.

The Landrover uses the 6HP26X box, not the RWD 6HP26. It is rated to 650Nm.

Unlike the people making technical assumptions on the 427 and the FG F6, I know a little bit about the things I have spoken on.

Note also. The 6HP32 box is physically bigger and longer than the 6HP26 and would have required significant reengineering to fit into the FPV even if they could have justified the sticker price (which was not done).

You are talking about engine development that hasn't been released. Ok let’s hear it. What changes have been made to the I6T in the F6 and what did it miss out on that it deserved?

I certainly have no idea so the facts that you have on the F6 will certainly be interesting to at least me.

I also have no idea, I was just repeating what my friend said. The I6 didn't get much spent on it as the attention was on trying to fix the torque hole in the Boss. It did get a rise but his words "it is more like the label is the truth now".

Note my mate no longer works at FPV (that may give awy who it was to some people) so I certainly can't speak to any changes (unlikely) post Nov 2007.

Anyway. I don't want an arguement. I am happy to just drop it and go back to making the occasional comment/correction. Thanks for your feedback I will take it on board.

Now back to the threads subject, the W427. Personally I don't like it. Those Mags are as bad as the R8 ones. The front looks like somebody ripped off the front of an Audi. Sorry HSV not for me which won't upset them as I wasn't the target audiance.

[HSE2]

Not sure you mate is totally correct then.
The Ford ZF is 26. The FPV box has extra plates in the clutch packs over that of the standard 26 box to exceed 600nm. As you correctly say there is some confusion about 600 and 650 for the A box, but my understanding was that the extra plates covered the increase and that it’s virtually identical to the X box spec at 650. It’s probably one reason why modified cars aren’t having too much trouble unless they get really serious.
As far as LR goes my book says it’s the A box. The GTR website is down at the minute so I can’t log in and check the TDV8 spec. It’s supposedly the same box as the RRSC which was only rated to 600 while the engine developed 580.
Regardless this friend of a mate stuff gets us nowhere and that’s the point. Its not too long to wait now. When facts become facts we can collectively hang FPV on all counts instead of the partial job at the moment.
It’s very likely the F6 will be at 580. Any over boost function will put it over the safety margin OME seem to employ.

[HSE2]

Found the link I was looking for. It states the strengthened box is still rated at 600nm but mentions the additional FPV changes for increased strength.
If memory serves me correctly the ratings are made up from continuous load. Over boost function, depending on how it works, might not be that much of an issue and perhaps wouldn’t require additional strengthening to the clutch packs.


http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_1053...wsarticle.html

[pushrod4life]

Originally Posted by ltd

I'm not making a remark on the engine perse', I'm commenting on the fact that it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit,...

The only fact in the statement "it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit", is that is has a bigger engine, everything else is subjective.

Originally Posted by ltd

and the media are feigning over it like the second coming of christ.

Well, considering we live in Australia it would make sense for the media to go nuts over the unveiling of an Australian car maker's new concept vehicle.

Originally Posted by ltd

My mention of the Bugatti in contrast was to illustrate that their 7 litre engine may be nice but this is what someone else did with 8 litres; a feat of engineering this is.

Yes, the contrast of a hardly-tuned naturally aspirated V8 against an insanely more expensive forced induction driven W16.

Originally Posted by ltd

Also, the numbers on the Bugatti are staggering, the weight of the engine is reputedly a little less than the Holden 7 litre corvette engine.

The LS7 weighs 458 pounds (or around 208kg), last I checked the Veyron's engine weighs about 400kg.

Originally Posted by ltd

It is manufacturers like Bugatti who set the benchmark on technology that eventually trickles down to the less exotic. As for other engines, the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti has over 550hp from 6 litres, the ford GT has the same from 5.4 with a supercharger on it, the SLR has 612 from a 5.5 litre with a supercharger etc.

You're making it sound like what's released is automatically the most power that can be generated from the engine, like those idiots who thought that the detuned LS1 in the VT series II could "only get 220kw from 5.7 litres", when in reality Holden released it detuned to enable progressive minor power upgrades in subsequent models.

Originally Posted by ltd

GM aren't in the same league when it comes to engines, as they are still in the old bigger displacement = bigger power mindset rather than the "lets wrangle more power out of this thing" mindset.

The proven pushrod LS* engines still hold their own in today's age, generally using fewer moving parts, weighing less and costing less money to do so. If it ain't broke, don't fix it..

Originally Posted by ltd

One final thing, when people refer to gas guzzlers they are always referring to holdens, fords and 4wds. You never hear any of the more exotic being mentioned even when some of them have over twice the fuel burn as say a falcon. Ever wonder why?

Because the exotics aren't as commonplace as the Holdens/Fords/4WDs among the average citizen, who would much more likely be concerned about the cost of fuel.

[FPVWEPN]

How many people have actually seen this in the flesh???
and the fg in the flesh at the same time????
Hate to say it but pictures dont do this justice!!!!!

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by FPVWEPN

How many people have actually seen this in the flesh???
and the fg in the flesh at the same time????
Hate to say it but pictures dont do this justice!!!!!

Saw some different pics on LS1 with the wheel up close and its pretty good according to the guy who took them. Like anything its better in the flesh.

This thing would be an absolute weapon on the track IMO.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Those figures have absolutley nothing to do with Wheels mag... :

Oh sorry google my bad

[ltd]

Originally Posted by pushrod4life

The only fact in the statement "it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit", is that is has a bigger engine, everything else is subjective.


Well, considering we live in Australia it would make sense for the media to go nuts over the unveiling of an Australian car maker's new concept vehicle.



Yes, the contrast of a hardly-tuned naturally aspirated V8 against an insanely more expensive forced induction driven W16.



The LS7 weighs 458 pounds (or around 208kg), last I checked the Veyron's engine weighs about 400kg.



You're making it sound like what's released is automatically the most power that can be generated from the engine, like those idiots who thought that the detuned LS1 in the VT series II could "only get 220kw from 5.7 litres", when in reality Holden released it detuned to enable progressive minor power upgrades in subsequent models.



The proven pushrod LS* engines still hold their own in today's age, generally using fewer moving parts, weighing less and costing less money to do so. If it ain't broke, don't fix it..



Because the exotics aren't as commonplace as the Holdens/Fords/4WDs among the average citizen, who would much more likely be concerned about the cost of fuel.

Judging by your picture you are a Holden troll. That means that you either have an extra chromosone, or you are intellectually challenged enough to be considered "special".
My subjective about the Holden look is well endorsed here, if you wish to find others of your ilk bugger off back to LS1.

As for the media, because Holden pay the likes of Paul Gover, no one is really surprised by the response of myopically biased fellow trolls only looking to Holden who have done bugger all except bolt a big engine to an already aged chassis. The fact that any other troglodyte gets excited speaks volumes about a car that would arguably only be purchased after the lotteries occur; otherwise known as when bogans get money.

With the Bugatti versus the Holden engine, you like all intellectual midgets have missed the point. From an engineering standpoint the W16 is a triumph, the 7 litre is just a bigger version of a 70 year old design. I don't expect you to understand the contrast, but the only thing GM have done that is an engineering feat is make their V8's make so much noise that they sound like a diesel.

With the engine weight thing, that's nothing to boast about. It seems that by reducing the reciprocating mass on the pistons of GM engines by removing most of the skirt, you people get a "knock knock, who's there? A GM engine"

As for the LS1 and other engines peak power etc; you're making it sound like I care what Holden do. I have had experience with Holden and they as far as I am concerned have a second rate product which is released with known faults all for the sake of profit. They also don't make cars as good as they can be save for profitability. This is why the smaller cars are all Daewoo's now as opposed to the european cars they replaced which were much better in Ancap ratings. Ford is going german for their smaller cars, Holden is going South Korean.
Then there is still the fact that you should check out which explains another reason why GM are shyte. http://www.pistonslap.com

Finally, if all you wish to do on these forums is troll then you won't be here long.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by TE50 056

Oh sorry google my bad

Try again mate. :

Originally Posted by ltd

With the Bugatti versus the Holden engine, you like all intellectual midgets have missed the point. From an engineering standpoint the W16 is a triumph, the 7 litre is just a bigger version of a 70 year old design. I don't expect you to understand the contrast, but the only thing GM have done that is an engineering feat is make their V8's make so much noise that they sound like a diesel.

It really is a bad comparison. The Veyron engine in terms of specific output is very inefficient. 736kW (987hp) from 8.0-litres, 16-cylinders and four-turbochargers yeilds 123hp/litre. A 1.6litre 197hp Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1 makes that naturally aspirated. One costs $3 million. The other $15,000.

There's nothing 'new,' about the Veyron engine either. It uses four turbochargers (dating back to 1905), double overhead camshafts (dating back to 1912)... and well... the only 'new,' thing about it is the W configuration.

The feat of the Veyron is not the engine - anybody can make that. Its just really big with alot of turbochargers on it... no, its making the engine work in the confined space that its in with the limited airflow it has, and making that shape do what it does, a shape that was chosen not out of performance, but out of the desire of the CEO to have the car look that way.

As far as a technological engine vs engine standpoint goes, the 8.0 W16 QT and the LS7 are on equal terms. They're both... bigger versions of century-old designs.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Try again mate. :



It really is a bad comparison. The Veyron engine in terms of specific output is very inefficient. 736kW (987hp) from 8.0-litres, 16-cylinders and four-turbochargers yeilds 123hp/litre. A 1.6litre 197hp Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1 makes that naturally aspirated. One costs $3 million. The other $15,000.

There's nothing 'new,' about the Veyron engine either. It uses four turbochargers (dating back to 1905), double overhead camshafts (dating back to 1912)... and well... the only 'new,' thing about it is the W configuration.

The feat of the Veyron is not the engine - anybody can make that. Its just really big with alot of turbochargers on it... no, its making the engine work in the confined space that its in with the limited airflow it has, and making that shape do what it does, a shape that was chosen not out of performance, but out of the desire of the CEO to have the car look that way.

As far as a technological engine vs engine standpoint goes, the 8.0 W16 QT and the LS7 are on equal terms. They're both... bigger versions of century-old designs.

Another country heard from.
No offence here buddy, but what you don't know could fill a book.
Equal terms? You have to be kidding.
One is agricultural in its design whilst the other is confined by space, has heat soak to deal with and requires infinately more airflow which serves a secondary function of induction cooling as well. No, they are not similar in any way. Along the way of the design for the W16 literally dozens of engineering challenges presented themselves, yet the V8 GM piston slapping boat anchor just required a bigger bore.
Honestly, you made your last comment as a joke right?

[HSE2]

You feeling OK LTD. Pretty full on and isn't necessary.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by ltd

Another country heard from.
No offence here buddy, but what you don't know could fill a book.
Equal terms? You have to be kidding.
One is agricultural in its design whilst the other is confined by space, has heat soak to deal with and requires infinately more airflow which serves a secondary function of induction cooling as well. No, they are not similar in any way. Along the way of the design for the W16 literally dozens of engineering challenges presented themselves, yet the V8 GM piston slapping boat anchor just required a bigger bore.
Honestly, you made your last comment as a joke right?

Calm down mate. Everything you said about space and heat issues I already mentioned. That doesn't make it a more modern engine. Now as an overall car, yes, its far more advanced and impressive then anything an LS7 is available in. However, if removed from the car, on a stand, engine vs engine... there's nothing 'better,' about it except that its bigger, has more cylinders, and four turbochargers the LS7 doesn't. Engine vs engine and car vs car is a very different story...

[ltd]

Originally Posted by HSE2

You feeling OK LTD. Pretty full on and isn't necessary.

I would have thought that people who purport to know engines would actually realise just what is involved in dealing with the extreme limits of engineering. Making blase statements about what is recognised as the worlds most advanced reciprocating engine in production and comparing it to a bigger existing version of an engine is wrong, and those people who do it generally tend to have a wealth of information only found on wikipedia. In my line of work, I am expected to know the very limits of the equipment I use, and in total have studied for months on systems; their use and limitations. Such things as friction or drag being proportionally square to speed have to be second nature for my calculations at work, as well as other laws of physics such as thermal efficiency and its effect on the engines. I shouldn't take offence to people who don't quite know but I often have to chastise those I work with who gloss over these facts when working out various things such as ambient temperature and its effect on our ramp weight, let alone our fuel weigh points.
To steffo, I didn't mean to sound as harsh but disagree with your assertion.

[Fev]

Cant we all just agree to disagree? Yes the holdens engine is old tech, the bugatti is new tech completely from tip to toe brand new, if only holden put part of that 1b they wasted on the VE into designing a newer better engine, made in australia it would have a better rep and probably better fuel consumption.

the gts-r is still fugly too, atleast the 60th anni looks the goods

[BHDOGS]

You cant compare this car to a european counterpart it is and will never will be up to the same standard no matter what holden chevy vauxhall badge you put on it how much power the engine has or how ugly the appearance just take the money buy a beseries crank the boost and wave goodbye as you sale past honestly if power was everything nobody would buy a holden v6 would they? haha

[AWD Chaser]

Just found that Holden has trademarked the TM for W427...

Also has trademarked what looks like a logo pic:

http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/a...&p_rec_all=182



You may have to login as a guest then reclick this link...

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by ltd

I would have thought that people who purport to know engines would actually realise just what is involved in dealing with the extreme limits of engineering. Making blase statements about what is recognised as the worlds most advanced reciprocating engine in production and comparing it to a bigger existing version of an engine is wrong, and those people who do it generally tend to have a wealth of information only found on wikipedia. In my line of work, I am expected to know the very limits of the equipment I use, and in total have studied for months on systems; their use and limitations. Such things as friction or drag being proportionally square to speed have to be second nature for my calculations at work, as well as other laws of physics such as thermal efficiency and its effect on the engines. I shouldn't take offence to people who don't quite know but I often have to chastise those I work with who gloss over these facts when working out various things such as ambient temperature and its effect on our ramp weight, let alone our fuel weigh points.
To steffo, I didn't mean to sound as harsh but disagree with your assertion.

Everyone bow to the keyboard warrior who must chastise people

Haha youre full of crap mate alot of people know alot more then you so be open to other peoples opinions.

[pushrod4life]

Originally Posted by ltd

Judging by your picture you are a Holden troll. That means that you either have an extra chromosone, or you are intellectually challenged enough to be considered "special".

Wow, ad hominem and you're calling _me_ a troll.

Originally Posted by ltd

My subjective about the Holden look is well endorsed here, if you wish to find others of your ilk bugger off back to LS1.

Your claimed "well endorsed" subjective is still just that: subjective. Not fact as you earlier tried to pass it off as.

Originally Posted by ltd

As for the media, because Holden pay the likes of Paul Gover, no one is really surprised by the response of myopically biased fellow trolls only looking to Holden who have done bugger all except bolt a big engine to an already aged chassis. The fact that any other troglodyte gets excited speaks volumes about a car that would arguably only be purchased after the lotteries occur; otherwise known as when bogans get money.

Cry cry cry. It receives the media attention it does because it's from an Australian manufacturer and a released version would be more accessible and more relevant to the average Aussie citizen than a Veyron. Just because you might not be partial to the technical design of the engine doesn't mean it's not a milestone or warranted of the media focus it receives. Not only that the Bugatti has been out for a while, as opposed to being unveiled just after the show commenced.

Originally Posted by ltd

With the Bugatti versus the Holden engine, you like all intellectual midgets have missed the point. From an engineering standpoint the W16 is a triumph, the 7 litre is just a bigger version of a 70 year old design. I don't expect you to understand the contrast, but the only thing GM have done that is an engineering feat is make their V8's make so much noise that they sound like a diesel.

So a manufacturer needs an "engineering feat" or "triumph" to warrant favourable media coverage? Whatever your opinion of the technical aspects of LS7 is, it's a bigger, more powerful engine than its predecessors and has just been unveiled in an Australian car--the amount of press coverage shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

Originally Posted by ltd

With the engine weight thing, that's nothing to boast about.

I wasn't boasting, I was correcting your incorrect statement that the Bugatti engine weighs less.

Originally Posted by ltd

It seems that by reducing the reciprocating mass on the pistons of GM engines by removing most of the skirt, you people get a "knock knock, who's there? A GM engine"

Never ever had a piston slap issue in my LS1, none of my mates have ever had a piston slap issues in their LS1 or L98 either.

Originally Posted by ltd

As for the LS1 and other engines peak power etc; you're making it sound like I care what Holden do.

I don't care if you don't care what Holden do. You're the one who listed a bunch of (mostly more expensive and more worked) engines to compare against a hardly worked naturally aspirated simple pushrod V8, as if they should change just because the engine design is perceived as "old".

Originally Posted by ltd

I have had experience with Holden and they as far as I am concerned have a second rate product which is released with known faults all for the sake of profit.

Being an owner, so do I. The only fault I've had is with the steering wheel volume control.

Originally Posted by ltd

They also don't make cars as good as they can be save for profitability. This is why the smaller cars are all Daewoo's now as opposed to the european cars they replaced which were much better in Ancap ratings. Ford is going german for their smaller cars, Holden is going South Korean.
Then there is still the fact that you should check out which explains another reason why GM are shyte. http://www.pistonslap.com

A site focusing on a particular issue of a particular manufacturer doesn't make that manufacturer "shyte", and it certainly isn't going to make me sell my car when I've never experienced the issue.

Originally Posted by ltd

Finally, if all you wish to do on these forums is troll then you won't be here long.

A. Disagreeing is not trolling.
B. You're not a moderator.
C. Get a vasectomy.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by pushrod4life

A. Disagreeing is not trolling.
B. You're not a moderator.
C. Get a vasectomy.

^^Thats quite funny

It is a good thing when we can respect other brands without ill concieved emotion. I dont have strong alliegences but rather prefer to stay in touch with fellow enthusiasts or like minded people.

ltd
Bitterness is a difficult pill to swallow and anger is a wasted emotion. Chill

[ltd]

Originally Posted by pushrod4life

Wow, ad hominem and you're calling _me_ a troll.

Your claimed "well endorsed" subjective is still just that: subjective. Not fact as you earlier tried to pass it off as.

Cry cry cry. It receives the media attention it does because it's from an Australian manufacturer and a released version would be more accessible and more relevant to the average Aussie citizen than a Veyron. Just because you might not be partial to the technical design of the engine doesn't mean it's not a milestone or warranted of the media focus it receives. Not only that the Bugatti has been out for a while, as opposed to being unveiled just after the show commenced.

So a manufacturer needs an "engineering feat" or "triumph" to warrant favourable media coverage? Whatever your opinion of the technical aspects of LS7 is, it's a bigger, more powerful engine than its predecessors and has just been unveiled in an Australian car--the amount of press coverage shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

I wasn't boasting, I was correcting your incorrect statement that the Bugatti engine weighs less.

Never ever had a piston slap issue in my LS1, none of my mates have ever had a piston slap issues in their LS1 or L98 either.

I don't care if you don't care what Holden do. You're the one who listed a bunch of (mostly more expensive and more worked) engines to compare against a hardly worked naturally aspirated simple pushrod V8, as if they should change just because the engine design is perceived as "old".

Being an owner, so do I. The only fault I've had is with the steering wheel volume control.

A site focusing on a particular issue of a particular manufacturer doesn't make that manufacturer "shyte", and it certainly isn't going to make me sell my car when I've never experienced the issue.

A. Disagreeing is not trolling.
B. You're not a moderator.
C. Get a vasectomy.

OK pushrod, here's a tip. You are a troll for the fact that every post you have made on this forum denigrates ford/promotes Holden. That is a troll. Nothing ad hominem about it, otherwise I would insist that you are a bogan for buying a car that typifies the bogan stereotype.

Idiots such as yourself seem to only focus on the reference I made to the veyron. The veyron was only cited as an engineering feat for the fact that fellow troglodyte and paid authors such as Paul Gover where commenting that the Holden was the most remarkable piece of engineering there. That is what I was referring too, but it obviously escaped your limited attention.

As for your assertion that I am crying; whatever floats your boat. For you see, I am not on a Holden forum now denigrating Holden; you on the other hand are doing your utmost to defend them. You say my opinion is subjective, yet for some reason you have a problem with me having one to the extent of going on a ford forum to defend a car against what others think. I accept that sites such as LS1 and such aren't going to appreciate what ford has to offer, but it doesn't bother me. Nor should it bother you, but despite your deficiencies and possible proclivities here you are.
This thread was primarily started to rate the new commodore, and the fact that it is only small-minded people with no imagination who cannot see past its bogan killer engine used as a diversionary tactic to take the attention away from ford who have a new series of cars. Again, that probably escaped your attention.

That you glossed over the pistonslap website is nothing unexpected, I was hoping even someone as myopically challenged as yourself would see what GM chose to do with all of those complainants, and the way that GM essentially told them all to bugger off. Some have even seen that site and used it to their advantage when they have had issues, but in your blind allegiance you would overlook that and lose all objectivity for the sake of defending a company that owes you nothing. Good for you.

Here's a little fun fact for you though, guess who basically funds and sells more porn than Larry Flint? Your heroes. As a bogan you'd probably be giving high fives to the next commodore driver you see; for others they'd see it as exploitation of women for massive profit. The reason I cited this is to further demonstrate the ethics of GM and their profit-centric approach. http://media.www.lsureveille.com/med...-2055397.shtml
In a way, you could say that porn is subsidising the losses GM are making on their cars.

Finally, disagreeing is not trolling, but joining a ford forum only to talk about Holden is.
I am not a moderator, but then again, I don't need to be. I'm not sure why you brought that up.
As for getting a vasectomy; I think you should reread your first comment.

Ray381, obviously you’re not one of these people you speak of for the fact that you don't know the difference between then and than. Idiot.

Oh and Fordoldie, who would have guessed you'd agree with the Holden trolls? I'm shocked, that's so unlike you.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by ltd

...Oh and Fordoldie, who would have guessed you'd agree with the Holden trolls? I'm shocked, that's so unlike you.

I didnt agree with anybody? But I do if they dislike your attitude towards others and the propensity for petty name calling and insults. You may wish you were a moderator soon..

[ltd]

^^^^^^

Ouch, well you certainly put me in my place then didn't you?
Where do you get your quick wit fordoldie?

[russellw]

Could I just draw your attention to the site T&C gentlemen and remind you that posts of an insulting nature toward another member are a breach of the T&C.

Debate is fine but keep it about the opinion - not the person.

Russ

[tallica1]

Originally Posted by Fev

Cant we all just agree to disagree? Yes the holdens engine is old tech, the bugatti is new tech completely from tip to toe brand new, if only holden put part of that 1b they wasted on the VE into designing a newer better engine, made in australia it would have a better rep and probably better fuel consumption.

the gts-r is still fugly too, atleast the 60th anni looks the goods

Holden don't need to design a newer and better engine, the current pushrod's still put out more power than the Fords Aus V8 engines, are lighter, rev higher and faster, and have a more more usuable powerband than the 5.4Litre BOSS engine. Not to mention, the pushrod has less things that can go wrong in the 'technical' Ford V8.

Sh!t...imagine if GM designed a 'technical' V8 engine like the Ford V8...poor Ford buggars wouldn't stand a chance at all. :

Here's a quote from a Wheels mag article in the comparo between the FPV Typhoon and HSV R8 that you guys might like to cuss about...

"Meantime, over in the blue camp, FPV’s current sharpest tool is the straight-sixpowered F6 Typhoon. What about the V8- powered GT-P? Sorry, but that 5.4-litre engine lacks low-down torque, doesn’t rev fast or high, and offers a usable power band of just 2500rpm. In short, the simple but effective HSV pushrod V8 would, and has, knocked the GT-P out of the park."

[pushrod4life]

Originally Posted by ltd

OK pushrod, here's a tip. You are a troll for the fact that every post you have made on this forum denigrates ford/promotes Holden. That is a troll.

Nope, I've defended the amount of media attention the W427 has received, and have said that I would expect the same if the car was a Ford. I haven't denigrated Ford anywhere. I'm not sure you understand the definition of the word "fact".

Originally Posted by ltd

Nothing ad hominem about it, otherwise I would insist that you are a bogan for buying a car that typifies the bogan stereotype.

"As a bogan you'd probably be giving high fives to the next commodore driver you see"--like you did here?

Originally Posted by ltd

Idiots such as yourself seem to only focus on the reference I made to the veyron. The veyron was only cited as an engineering feat for the fact that fellow troglodyte and paid authors such as Paul Gover where commenting that the Holden was the most remarkable piece of engineering there. That is what I was referring too, but it obviously escaped your limited attention.

You said: "I'm commenting on the fact that it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit, and the media are feigning over it like the second coming of christ.."

and I gave reasons why the media would feign over it, as well as highlighting your opinion-passed-as-fact.

Originally Posted by ltd

As for your assertion that I am crying; whatever floats your boat. For you see, I am not on a Holden forum now denigrating Holden;

Wow, and I'm not on a Ford forum denigrating Ford.

Originally Posted by ltd

you on the other hand are doing your utmost to defend them. You say my opinion is subjective,

Yes, your opinion of how it looks _is_ subjective.

Originally Posted by ltd

yet for some reason you have a problem with me having one to the extent of going on a ford forum to defend a car against what others think.

Nope, only against things you tried to pass as "facts" and your whinge about the level of praise the car received.

Originally Posted by ltd

I accept that sites such as LS1 and such aren't going to appreciate what ford has to offer, but it doesn't bother me. Nor should it bother you, but despite your deficiencies and possible proclivities here you are.
This thread was primarily started to rate the new commodore, and the fact that it is only small-minded people with no imagination who cannot see past its bogan killer engine used as a diversionary tactic to take the attention away from ford who have a new series of cars. Again, that probably escaped your attention.

The timing of the unveiling and your theory on its motivation doesn't mean the media focus it does receive is unwarranted. If the reason for the release is indeed to do that, smart move HSV.

Originally Posted by ltd

That you glossed over the pistonslap website is nothing unexpected, I was hoping even someone as myopically challenged as yourself would see what GM chose to do with all of those complainants, and the way that GM essentially told them all to bugger off. Some have even seen that site and used it to their advantage when they have had issues, but in your blind allegiance you would overlook that and lose all objectivity for the sake of defending a company that owes you nothing. Good for you.

I glossed over the piston slap website because not having ever experienced it, it's not relevant to me; and not having anything to do with media coverage of the W427, it's not relevant to this thread. You seem to be just picking and grabbing trying to find any negative aspect about Holden's parent company because the timing and media attention of the W427 unveiling displeases you.

Originally Posted by ltd

Here's a little fun fact for you though, guess who basically funds and sells more porn than Larry Flint? Your heroes. As a bogan you'd probably be giving high fives to the next commodore driver you see; for others they'd see it as exploitation of women for massive profit. The reason I cited this is to further demonstrate the ethics of GM and their profit-centric approach. http://media.www.lsureveille.com/med...-2055397.shtml
In a way, you could say that porn is subsidising the losses GM are making on their cars.

What's this got to do with the unveiling of the W427? Wow, a company is doing something perfectly legal in an attempt to make money, what a shock. I don't care what the parent company of my car's manufacturer "funds and sells". It's not going to stop me buying one of their cars if the car appeals to me.

Originally Posted by ltd

Finally, disagreeing is not trolling, but joining a ford forum only to talk about Holden is.

I've been a member since January 2007 and haven't restricted my posts to Holden, so the action of "joining a ford forum only to talk about Holden" doesn't apply to me, and therefore your cop-out definition-of-convenience of a "troll" doesn't either.

Originally Posted by ltd

I am not a moderator, but then again, I don't need to be. I'm not sure why you brought that up.

Not being a moderator your reference of a ban for me is irrelevant. It wouldn't surprise me in slightest if you had violated more terms & conditions on this forum than I had.

Originally Posted by ltd

As for getting a vasectomy; I think you should reread your first comment.

My first comment: "The only fact in the statement "it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit", is that is has a bigger engine, everything else is subjective."

Yep, looks about right to me.

[Falc'man]

I clicked on this thread to see if there's more info on the WD40.27... but I get a cross between "days of our lives" and "home and away".

/switches to late night SBS for some of GM's best :P

[ltd]

Originally Posted by pushrod4life

Nope, I've defended the amount of media attention the W427 has received, and have said that I would expect the same if the car was a Ford. I haven't denigrated Ford anywhere. I'm not sure you understand the definition of the word "fact".

"As a bogan you'd probably be giving high fives to the next commodore driver you see"--like you did here?

You said: "I'm commenting on the fact that it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit, and the media are feigning over it like the second coming of christ.."

and I gave reasons why the media would feign over it, as well as highlighting your opinion-passed-as-fact.

Wow, and I'm not on a Ford forum denigrating Ford.

Yes, your opinion of how it looks _is_ subjective.

Nope, only against things you tried to pass as "facts" and your whinge about the level of praise the car received.


The timing of the unveiling and your theory on its motivation doesn't mean the media focus it does receive is unwarranted. If the reason for the release is indeed to do that, smart move HSV.

I glossed over the piston slap website because not having ever experienced it, it's not relevant to me; and not having anything to do with media coverage of the W427, it's not relevant to this thread. You seem to be just picking and grabbing trying to find any negative aspect about Holden's parent company because the timing and media attention of the W427 unveiling displeases you.

What's this got to do with the unveiling of the W427? Wow, a company is doing something perfectly legal in an attempt to make money, what a shock. I don't care what the parent company of my car's manufacturer "funds and sells". It's not going to stop me buying one of their cars if the car appeals to me.

I've been a member since January 2007 and haven't restricted my posts to Holden, so the action of "joining a ford forum only to talk about Holden" doesn't apply to me, and therefore your cop-out definition-of-convenience of a "troll" doesn't either.

Not being a moderator your reference of a ban for me is irrelevant. It wouldn't surprise me in slightest if you had violated more terms & conditions on this forum than I had.

My first comment: "The only fact in the statement "it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit", is that is has a bigger engine, everything else is subjective."

Yep, looks about right to me.

Good to see you followed Russellw's advice.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by ltd

Good to see you followed Russellw's advice.

Jeezus! grow up dude!