Coyote XR8 still a year away

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not a shot at you, but this is what I meant about V8 Ford buyers living in the second hand market.
A lot of the fans complaining that XR8 went away would be the very same people saying that
"I'm not paying $52K for one when I can buy a good used one for about $35k"

Can you blame buyers who have been ravaged by poor resale in the past? I bought a Ghia new in 95 or so and got my **** handed to me on resale. Same with my BA XR8 - though nowhere near as severe. I'm gun shy when it comes to pulling the trigger on a new Ford (or Holden for that matter...) and my cars are 85% tax deductable!

Resale is a factor in my vehicle purchases.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

if that's you're buget then so be it, i can appreciate that, no point at looking at anything better.

Even if your budget stretched further, if a more compelling value proposition is available, you'd be mad not to at least consider it.

For the XR8 to be at all sellable, its going to have to be at least on a par with the XR6T, and in a similar price ballpark to the model it replaces.

That means a significant saving relative to the GS. Either the spec of the GS will need to improve when the XR8 comes out, or they're going to have to consider dropping it. If neither happens, the XR8 will just cannibalise existing sales.

[Seduce XR6]

1. Not all potential buyers of an XR8 need more power than a v8 commodore.
2. The Boss was not appealing to many buyers not just because it was slower to 100 k's or 400 metres than a Turbo XR6 it was also the way it made its power as in lethargic throttle response.
3. Many chose a Turbo six as it was easy to mod to make more power.
4. The Boss was nose heavy & so did not corner nearly as well as a XR6.
5. If the XR8 came back onto the market with a lighter & sweeter V8 at same price as the XR6 Turbo it would be much more attractive than the Boss was.
6. The XR8 & the XR6 turbo were the same price as each other before XR8 was discontinued.
7. Not all potential buyers of a XR8 would care if it was slower than a XR6 Turbo or even a SS commodore as many just like a sweet V8.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Can you blame buyers who have been ravaged by poor resale in the past? I bought a Ghia new in 95 or so and got my **** handed to me on resale. Same with my BA XR8 - though nowhere near as severe. I'm gun shy when it comes to pulling the trigger on a new Ford (or Holden for that matter...) and my cars are 85% tax deductable!

Resale is a factor in my vehicle purchases.

Hey that's a fact of life with almost every car in Australia,
the best you can hope for is 40% residual in 48 months.

Tax deductible is not enough, Unless you car is earning you money
and paying for running costs and depreciation, you're going backwards.

IMO, XR6 should get 300 Kw Boss 6.2 from F150, XR8 needs a
big torquey knuckle dragger engine to take on the SS 6.0 Chevy.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

6. The XR8 & the XR6 turbo were the same price as each other before XR8 was discontinued.

Was that during the last of the XR8's? I know when I bought mine I paid ~$5k more than the turbo. Add the catback exhaust and I paid just under $6k solely for the noise.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Tax deductible is not enough, Unless you car is earning you money and paying for running costs and depreciation, you're going backwards.

Oh, absolutely. I am entitled to a company car but I'd quit my job in a week if I could only drive around in an XT - so I'm given a car allowance. I get $15k to run it and I claim all standard deductions. If I wasn't able to claim that gap between the depreciated value and the disposed price, I probably would have slashed my wrists when I sold my Ghia.

Still bear the scars though, and that was about 12 years ago.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Oh, absolutely. I am entitled to a company car but I'd quit my job in a week if I could only drive around in an XT - so I'm given a car allowance. I get $15k to run it and I claim all standard deductions. If I wasn't able to claim that gap between the depreciated value and the disposed price, I probably would have slashed my wrists when I sold my Ghia.

Still bear the scars though, and that was about 12 years ago.

I gave up about 10 years ago and insisted on a pool vehicle, since then i don't
have any costs whatsoever and no deduction on salary. My R6 ute is great.

Novated leases are shyte, they suck you into a fully maintained lease
on an expensive car when companies used to supply vehicles for free.
Everyone forgets about the salary sacrifice because they want that car.

I did the sums and an R6 ute pool vehicle plus the 15K extra salary is worth it....
Alternative, take a lease on a 12-18 month old low Klm G6ET, the depreciation is wicked
and you get to run the car for about 2 years and the sums add up when you sell privately....

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Was that during the last of the XR8's? I know when I bought mine I paid ~$5k more than the turbo. Add the catback exhaust and I paid just under $6k solely for the noise.

FG saw both base models at the same price.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Novated leases are shyte, they suck you into a fully maintained lease on an expensive car when companies used to supply vehicles for free.
Everyone forgets about the salary sacrifice because they want that car.

I never lease. I would have been screwed with my last R8 when I injured my left shoulder which made it seriously painful swapping cogs in Sydney traffic - only owned it for 6 months and took a bath on it on trade. Would have been brutal if I had novated it. Been driving a BF Ghia since October and my shoulder is still sore.. :(

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Novated leases are shyte, they suck you into a fully maintained lease on an expensive car when companies used to supply vehicles for free.

why would your employer provide you a car for personal use for free? perhaps they should buy your kids xmas pressies too, and take the family out for dinner?

where the employee is expected to use the car primarily for work use, they generally are provided. a huge chunk of novated leases are taken out on cars that see zero work use ... the real con is that the taxpayer ultimately foots the bill by way of a deduction on a non-working asset.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

I agree whole heartedly B2TF, I can see why people buy Holdens, and sales stats tell the story, if they were that rubbish as some claim why do they sell so many?

You think MacDonalds sell beacuse of its quality of food?

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by flappist

You think MacDonalds sell beacuse of its quality of food?

Hell yeah, don't you start on macca's, that's where I take the wife when we go out to eat

I have spent considerable time around Holdens and from this I can gauge that IMO that they are if not on par with Ford possibly a better build than Ford. But in all honesty they are a much of a muchness, but I think HSV's are better finished off than the FPV's. About the only thing I think Ford are way ahead in over the Holden is the Auto trans.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by flappist

You think MacDonalds sell beacuse of its quality of food?

Nope, I think it sells because it is readily available and you have lots of choice.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not a shot at you, but this is what I meant about V8 Ford buyers living in the second hand market.
A lot of the fans complaining that XR8 went away would be the very same people saying that
"I'm not paying $52K for one when I can buy a good used one for about $35k"

This is the problem for V8 buyers, if everyone of them buys 18 - 24 month old used versions,
the new car sales of V8 dwindles and eventually dies, then there's no more low mileage used V8s.

In the last two years, only about 1200 XR8 sedans and Utes were sold so it's already happening...
many can argue that the reason the XR8 sales fell away was becuase people were waiting for the
new V8 or the previous Barra 290 wasn't fast enough or something else, the point is sales died.
The the circular relationship between V8 buyers and Ford new car sales has been broken,
if you want a V8 sedan then the entry level is FPV GS, price is now +$60,000 on the road...

hang on i don't get your post aimed at me, i did just buy a brand new V8 not a second hand one. it just happens to be a holden as there is no xr8 option for me right now. in two years i will be looking at getting into a new ford when hopefully the series 2 is out and the xr8 is back. i was saying that in two years hopefully the ute i just bought will be worth about 30.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Nope, I think it sells because it is readily available and you have lots of choice.

Yeah that too.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by vztrt

FG saw both base models at the same price.

It happened before FG, BF's were the same price, just can't remember if it was even earlier ie BA MkII.

It wasn't that long after I bought my second BA in 2004. I was a bit peed when Ford dropped the price of XR8 around 5k.

[banarcus]

It was the BF shortly after Holden released the VE. $46k from memory.

[jixel 78]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

If they up'd the power already they would be hanging the initial coyote buyers out to dry on their resale.

I'd be content with a 290kw Coyote XR8, but to be completely honest I'd just like to see it back.

WHY. Why why why.

[jixel 78]

[QUOTE=Seduce XR6]1. Not all potential buyers of an XR8 need more power than a v8 commodore.
2. The Boss was not appealing to many buyers not just because it was slower to 100 k's or 400 metres than a Turbo XR6 it was also the way it made its power as in lethargic throttle response.
3. Many chose a Turbo six as it was easy to mod to make more power.
4. The Boss was nose heavy & so did not corner nearly as well as a XR6.
5. If the XR8 came back onto the market with a lighter & sweeter V8 at same price as the XR6 Turbo it would be much more attractive than the Boss was.
6. The XR8 & the XR6 turbo were the same price as each other before XR8 was discontinued.
7. Not all potential buyers of a XR8 would care if it was slower than a XR6 Turbo or even a SS commodore as many just like a sweet V8.[/Q

The potential buyers of a slower, more expensive, thirstier, poorer handling car are few and far between.Ford were a long time learning that. RIP XR8. Theyve always played the slow fat big brother,since EB IMO, needing a long slow expensive massage to catch up to its little brother,puffing and sweating everywhere chasing the XR6,and later Turbo and always the SS.Ford gave it an excruciatingly long and painful death. Theyre well overrated around here.

[XWGT]

XR who?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by b0son

why would your employer provide you a car for personal use for free? perhaps they should buy your kids xmas pressies too, and take the family out for dinner?

where the employee is expected to use the car primarily for work use, they generally are provided. a huge chunk of novated leases are taken out on cars that see zero work use ... the real con is that the taxpayer ultimately foots the bill by way of a deduction on a non-working asset.

My employer wanted to make me take a salary sacrifice novated lease on a vehicle to
go on construction and chemical plant sites so he didn't have to cough up for a
vehicle that would be doing near on 85% business usage.

I said no thanks, the $15K went back into my salary and he bought an R6 ute as a
pool vehicle for me to use instead with no deduction from my salary...how good is that....

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/melbourne...701-1gun1.html

2011 Melbourne motor show: Ford eyes XR8 return
Steve Colquhoun
July 1, 2011

No confirmation, but no denial either on return of Ford's affordable muscle car.

Ford has offered the strongest hint yet at the return of a V8 to its mainstream Falcon range, a move which could spell the end of FPV's cut-price GS range.

The previous XR8 model was quietly killed off last June when Ford's former V8 engine, a 5.4-litre unit, was overtaken by stricter new emissions regulations.

But the arrival late last year of 5.0-litre supercharged V8 developed by engineering firm Prodrive specifically for Ford Performance Vehicles has left the door ajar.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Ford Australia general marketing manager David Katich indicated to Drive at the Melbourne motor show that Ford was keen to re-enter the affordable V8 market that arch-rival Holden dominates with its SS and SS-V range.

"We've got a great V8 engine and we're always looking for ways to increase and grow our volume. That (XR8) is another strong opportunity for us, but something we're not quite ready to talk about," he says.

"We've had a lot of consumers asking the same question, so we understand there's a lot of interest there.

"We've got what we believe is the best V8 engine in the class. So we'll see what the future holds. I think I'd best stop there," he says with a grin.

The return of the "affordable" V8 could put the FPV GS sedan and ute in jeopardy. They were conceived to plug the "walk" from the remaining performance hero of the mainstream Ford Falcon range, the XR6 Turbo, to the $20,000-dearer FPV F6.

FPV managing director Rod Barrett conceded a revived XR8 fitted with a detuned version of the Prodrive V8 engine could jeopardize his GS range.

"I think the (Ford-Prodrive) joint venture would need to make a decision whether the GS would continue if the XR8 came back, but I think the biggest word in that statement is 'if'," he says.

"I'm just happy to be selling the GS. In order of sales this year it's the GT sedan, the GS Ute and the GS sedan, so we're quite happy the way it's gone."

A limited run of FPV's black-on-black concept car - the eight-year-old company's first-ever dedicated motor show special - could be on the cards.

Speaking just hours after it went on display to the media and hit websites around the country, Barrett says he has been overwhelmed by the positive response.

The car features jet black paintwork and matte black stickers, with a newly designed front spoiler that could point to the next iteration of the performance brand's models.

Responding to customer requests, FPV has also fitted the car with a firmer suspension package, wide 9-5-inch rear wheels (1.5 inches wider than the front wheels) and a performance-oriented exhaust package. No tweaks have been made to the 335kW supercharged V8 engine, which remains Australia's most powerful production V8.

"We just wanted to put this on the stand and see what people thought, and it's probably a going-ahead mission for us," Barrett says.

"It's a very positive vibe so far, it would be good if it was a production car tomorrow with the feedback we've had on it."

If FPV decided to put the stealth fighter-like model into production it would likely begin with a limited run, with sustained demand needed to create a case to become a permanent model, Barrett says.

[wsuser]

XR who lol

[stang65]

So whats it going to be boys you want an Xr8 or a GS according to the article the GS could get dropped if the XR8 comes back. Then we`ll have a thread whinging about No GS and how they should build it.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Also got to take price point of the XR8 into it, considering the cost of the GS where does the XR8 slide into, if it is to be considerably less than the GS than it has to probably have less than the GS. IMO the XR8 would not be worth the money anymore considering the price point of the GS.

Taking into consideration the severe decline in sales of the XR8 I would not be surprised that it does not get released again.

XR8 would come in at the high 40's in base trim. GS gets more equipment and stays at 60K drive away or disappears.

No question FPV will be knocked around by a lower price V8 in the Ford range, but frankly they are riding the gravy train right now on prices. This would just force GT and any GS to be repositioned as better value and close to where they probably should be in opinion.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by stang65

So whats it going to be boys you want an Xr8 or a GS according to the article the GS could get dropped if the XR8 comes back. Then we`ll have a thread whinging about No GS and how they should build it.

No the scream will be that the XR8 is too expensive, for that price you could have bought a GS.....

Of course there will be a post in a minute on how the XR8 will be $15k cheaper because it does not have a badge, stripes or a starter button......

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by flappist

No the scream will be that the XR8 is too expensive, for that price you could have bought a GS.....

Of course there will be a post in a minute on how the XR8 will be $15k cheaper because it does not have a badge, stripes or a starter button......

Should XR8 be reintroduced to the market, will the GS become a pointless exercise. As it stands today, the GS is an FPV XR8, and would have been badged so if Ford didn't decide that they wanted to keep their model.

I'd like to think that I'm in the market for an XR8, or G8E. I don't want stripes, I really don't want that tacky starter button (it was done much better in the B Series), and a badge has never interested me - our new daily is an XT on LPG.

I do think that the XR8 will carry a premium on the XR6 Turbo. There will be a large investment into the engine, just shoehorning it into the Falcon will not be free. The car will need to be something special, and carry a significant performance increase over even the SS Commodore to be successful. Ford have also got to be certain that they can sell enough to recoup their investment should Broadmeadows get the **** in 2015.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Look, i agree i think Ford need an "entry level" V8 performance product, but there's a worrying trend about pricing expectation, my optioned AU2 XR8 cost me 49K, the BA XR8 51K, the BF sold from memory in its optioned state about 53K, now people are talking mid to low 40's for XR6T/XR8??? We're going backwards in costs and complaining too.

I also think Ford have stuffed up simply by offering options and not packaging them into model differentiation first off, it kills resale value.

On pricing does anyone remember what an ELGT retailed for? 300 Calloway GTS ??

Your right about pricing, but if Ford can throw together an XR6 and get it out the door for $35K then they set the benchmark.

Besides Ford are also facing other price pressures as well. Holdens are very competitive on price and features at the moment. Besides Ford has burnt a lot of customers, big Fords have terrible resale and their branding is in the toilet with a lot of people, who simply wouldn't walk in the door to look at Falcon. The reality is that pricing is important and it will need to be lower than it once was to get any kind of reasonable volume of sales.

Its just the world that Ford are now in. Partly from a more competitive market and partly from the world they have created for themselves by how they have treated customers in the past.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by flappist

No the scream will be that the XR8 is too expensive, for that price you could have bought a GS.....

Of course there will be a post in a minute on how the XR8 will be $15k cheaper because it does not have a badge, stripes or a starter button......

Fords pricing of any product (unofficially) will have to match what the market expects and that is the simple reality. Dealers will discount product until the market accepts it or they will give up selling it.

The good old days of having a huge fan base to rely on buying Ford product are over.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Fords pricing of any product (unofficially) will have to match what the market expects and that is the simple reality. Dealers will discount product until the market accepts it or they will give up selling it.

The good old days of having a huge fan base to rely on buying Ford product are over.

Which is where the problem lies.

The coyote drive train is an expensive item and I suspect the the creation of the GS was to give a buffer in pricing as an XR8 would have cost round about the same which is significantly more than the previous XR8 and current XR6T.

Maybe Ford cannot match "what the market expects" for an XR8 and have been left with a difficult decission.

As the Fg 5.4 XR8 was a sales flop even with extreme discounting they would be rather brave to launch a new one that would have to also be sold at an extremely low price to gain any market traction.

It is important to remember that Ford are in the business of making PROFIT not really cool cars that can outperform the equivalent holden in any school yard debate.