Vfacts Jun 2011

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by csv8

This is 4 years old, what if Ford did bring this here.? LWB Mondeo.
Ford has developed a special long-wheelbase version of the new Mondeo sedan and the model was spotted recently in China where it joins other China-specific LWB models from the likes of BMW and Volkswagen Group. The first pictures of the stretched Mondeo have turned up on the Chinese forum SoulImage, and clearly show the lengthened Ford sedan’s longer wheelbase and extended rear door.

In China, it’s not uncommon for even mainstream models like a Mondeo to be chauffeur driven. Even if a LWB Mondeo is released in China, it's unlikely it'll be sold in any other markets. Ford is clearly on a winner with the new Mondeo, which has been a sales success in the UK and throughout Europe.

Not trying to stir a hornet's nest, but maybe that is how the Orion should have been designed? It obviously fits in with Fords "kinetic" design and looks close to what a Falcon would too.........

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by csv8

This is 4 years old, what if Ford did bring this here.? LWB Mondeo.
Ford has developed a special long-wheelbase version of the new Mondeo sedan and the model was spotted recently in China where it joins other China-specific LWB models from the likes of BMW and Volkswagen Group. The first pictures of the stretched Mondeo have turned up on the Chinese forum SoulImage, and clearly show the lengthened Ford sedan’s longer wheelbase and extended rear door.

In China, it’s not uncommon for even mainstream models like a Mondeo to be chauffeur driven. Even if a LWB Mondeo is released in China, it's unlikely it'll be sold in any other markets. Ford is clearly on a winner with the new Mondeo, which has been a sales success in the UK and throughout Europe.

Those vehicles I believe were developed off line specifically for Chauffer duty by a third party.
That LWB Mondeo could have also acted as the basis for the next all new Taurus which could
have been the stretched wheelbase and V6 version of the next Fusion/Mondeo.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Not trying to stir a hornet's nest, but maybe that is how the Orion should have been designed? It obviously fits in with Fords "kinetic" design and looks close to what a Falcon would too.........

Before they settled on RWD FG, FoA was seriously considering the Mazda 6 based Fusion or a variant as a FWD /AWD Falcon.
The car would have be able to source I-4 petrol and diesel, 3.5/3.7 V6 and of course the hybrid...

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Before they settled on RWD FG, FoA was seriously considering the Mazda 6 based Fusion or a variant as a FWD /AWD Falcon.
The car would have be able to source I-4 petrol and diesel, 3.5/3.7 V6 and of course the hybrid...

And a more secure future for Ford Australia manufacturing........

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Davez621

I'm guessing you have the Classic? The i45 Elite has full leather trim and reversing sensors, turning indicators in the mirrors (plus power-folding mirrors), LED tail-lights, and rear air conditioning vents. The Mazda misses out on all these things.

The advantages of the Mazda6 are that it's slightly cheaper (in mid grade trim), and has metallic paint included in the price. It also has dual zone climate versus single zone in the i45, and a 6-disc changer (but no USB).

Bluetooth is not available on any i45, at least not from the factory. But that's not something that interests me or I would use.

So, I still count more 'for' than 'against' for the i45. And that's before you even take into consideration the warranty, engine/transmission, and longer service intervals.

This will be the last post I make on this as we are getting off topic, but...

Our Mazda 6 has reverse sensors and LED tail lights. As you say it has dual climate control which is very good and keeps the temperature perfect. Why do I need rear vents again? Likewise the repeaters in the mirrors when they are on the guard? So really the only thing we are missing out on is leather trim. Bluetooth in this day and age is a must in my opinion and I would rank that much higher in necessity than leather, rear vents, USB, mirror repeaters, LED tail lights etc. So going off that list I count more 'fors' than 'againsts' to the Mazda. Also the Mazda is available in wagon form.

Looking at the other things you mention...
Warranty - yes the Hyundai has a better warranty but nothing went wrong with our previous Mazda between when the warranty ran out and when we sold it (130000ish km). So I don't see the problem. Also refer to my other post about the 121.
Engine - The Hyundai doesn't have a diesel so plus 1 to Mazda. But comparing our diesel to the top spec petrol Hyundai we are only down about 10-15kw but have an 60% more torque (150Nm extra).
Transmission - Nothing wrong with the 6 speed manual we have. It has a very slick shift in my opinion. The only auto I have ever had is my work RTV so the manual is a plus in my opinion. I have no idea what the transmission is like in the Hyundai.
Service intervals - You have me there. I assume they are evry 15000km compared to the Mazdas 10?

So overall to me it still falls in the Mazda's favour. I also note the dynamics of the Hyundai hasn't been mentioned yet. How a car drives is a BIG factor to me when I am buying a car.

[Road_Warrior]

Rear vents are a must if you want the little ones to stay happy in the back during summer. That some cars don't even come with them surprises the hell out of me.

[jpd80]

Just back on topic,

June figures for Aussie built vehicles:

Ford
Ford Falcon 1,847
Falcon Ute 664
Territory 1,634
TOTAL: 4145

Holden
Commodore 3,809
Commodore Ute 1,227
Cruze 3,387
Caprice 186
TOTAL: 8609


Now, we know that Ford is a one shift plant and Holden a two shift plant
so it seems that both plants are now filling their shifts with enough vehicles
to justify five day week production albeit at different production line speeds.

Even though Ford is producing slightly less than half the number of vehicles that Holden makes,
that seems about right for their current output so anyone thinking that Ford are at death's door
is not looking at how a resurgent Territory has filled production and if the new LPG engine does
similar, Ford could recover even more sales, those sad sedan and Ute sales could both increase
by about 300 a month, that's assuming EcoLPI goes into Ute... an area Ford needs to fully capitalise.

[Gobes32]

If eco lpi even creates 20% increase in production they will be hard pressed to keep up.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Rear vents are a must if you want the little ones to stay happy in the back during summer. That some cars don't even come with them surprises the hell out of me.

Yeah, like the Territory on the 3rd row....


Lukeyson

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

If eco lpi even creates 20% increase in production they will be hard pressed to keep up.

That inreased demand would most likely encourage Forf ot deliver what ever units they can a head of petrol production, if that happened, it may enable Ford to eat down the sedan stockpile and clear the decks ahead of new specials and future upgrades. I have a feeling from what Russell mentioned about Ute that Ford could really pick up there with EcoLPI .... apparently previous LPG Utes accounted for up to 50% of Ute production at times when fleet buyers were on the hunt. Let's hope Ford can curry that sort of interest again...

[prydey]

i know there seems to be a lot of confindence the ecolpi will create sales, but all those customers that used to be ford lpg customers, have had to go elsewhere in the last few months so they won't be looking to buy a new car for another year or 2 now. people can't go round buying a new car every time a new model comes out.

the lpg option will bolster the lineup but whether it will still achieve the same results as the old gasser is yet to be seen. if the ecolpi is bought by someone that would've bought a falcon anyway, then it won't increase any overall production numbers.

the territory has lived up to expectation so lets hope lpg will as well, but i doubt it will be to the same extent.

as mentioned many times, lpg still has a bit of a reputation. hopefully a manufacturer releasing a factory state of the art system will help to dispel a lot of the myths and allay a lot of peoples fears.

[GK]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, when you look at it like that, it looks like i have egg on my face, but how many people fill the load area with liquid? the useable space is a lot less. the rear tailgate, because of the angle, eats into a lot of the roof line. if you fit a cargo barrier (so you can load it higher than the seat line) there is even more space you lose.

i know the numbers on paper, but in the real world its not that black and white.

Agreed!

The boss went for a new commodore sportswagon, but declined it when he looked at the usuable bootspace. Bought a VZ instead.

GK

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...715-1hgi1.html

Public snubs local icons
Richard Blackburn with Stephen Ottley
July 16, 2011

Secret figures show government and fleets propping up large-car sales.

The government and big business are dragging the chain on switching to smaller, more fuel-efficient cars, according to exclusive figures obtained by Drive.

The figures show nine of the 10 best-selling vehicles to private buyers are small cars or city runabouts.

This contrasts with overall sales figures, including business and government sales, where traditional Aussie sedans and four-wheel-drives come to the fore.



The undisputed most-popular car among private buyers is the Mazda3, with 18,472 sales. Toyota's Corolla is a distant second, at 10,775. Holden's Commodore large car, which has been the No. 1 selling car in the country for the past 15 years, is the biggest loser when fleet and government buyers are taken out of the sales equation, slipping from second to eighth.

The Commodore, a staple in Australian driveways for decades, is not even the most popular Holden in the country, according to private buyers. That honour falls to Holden's locally built small car, the Cruze, which is the third top-seller with private buyers.

Traditionally, it had been hard to make money out of small cars because the profit margins were much lower. But the slide in popularity of large cars has eroded margins at that end of the market, with Holden and Ford constantly offering deep discounts on the Commodore and Falcon.

In contrast, the high percentage of private buyers means better margins for the littlies. Margins are also being helped by the fact some buyers are downsizing from larger cars but spending similar money on a more luxuriously equipped small car.

That's because improvements in quality have been made in the past decade.

These days, downsizing on space doesn't mean missing out on luxury items such as Bluetooth connectivity, satellite navigation, cruise control and climate control airconditioning.

''When you look at small cars across the board, they certainly come with more features than they did five or 10 years ago,'' a spokesman for Mazda Australia, Steve Maciver, says.

He says customers shifting down to the Mazda3 from larger cars often opt for the better-equipped Maxx Sport and SP25 models.

Even buyers of luxury cars can choose a small vehicle these days, with Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Citroen, Alfa Romeo, Mini, Volvo and even Aston Martin among those brands offering compact, fuel-efficient options.

The success of the Cruze is a bitter pill to swallow for rival Ford, whose Falcon has all but disappeared from private buyers' shopping lists.

Ford had planned to build the Focus small car in Australia from this year but canned the idea in favour of upgrading its ageing six-cylinder engine.

The Falcon, up until recently a perennial runner-up to the top-selling Commodore, attracted just 2809 private buyers in the first half of the year. That is just three more private buyers than those who bought its workhorse utility vehicle, the Ranger, and well behind its Focus and Fiesta small cars.

The figures show the extent to which large cars depend on government and fleet business for their survival. Fleet customers at present make up 71 per cent of Commodore sales and 69 per cent of Falcon sales.

In contrast, 87 per cent of Mazda3 sales are to private buyers.

The private numbers also reveal that soft-roaders are more popular with fleet customers and company car buyers, with no off-roader making the private top 10. The closest was Holden's Captiva, which attracted 3825 private buyers, well short of the top 10.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by vztrt

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...715-1hgi1.html

The private list shows the type of cars we should be building here. The Mazda 3 dominates.

As an aside at the Melbourne Motor show, Toyota once again mentioned they want a third model to be built at Altona, and for the first time ever Kluger wasnt the automatic choice. Talk of Corolla or Rav4 being built locally...which is a suprise as I thought the plant could only take Camry-based product.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The private list shows the type of cars we should be building here. The Mazda 3 dominates.

That just solves one problem with another. Theyre not going to get much money building small cars doing less than 200K units a year.

[GTENVY]

Bit of a worry with not one Ford in the top 10 private list. Wonder what the top 20 looks like err on second thought I dont want to see that either.

[vztrt]

One thing to remember is that the private figures don't account for user choose lease plans. Something were the utes would make up good numbers.

[Joe5619]

People can be so dumb sometimes.. The big large 6's have ALWAYS relied on fleet & government sales.. A 70/30% ish split is what it was 10-20-30 years ago!! Nothing new, just the overall number has dropped, which we already know!! I bet 15 years ago Corolla & Holden’s small car weren't getting 30% & 40% fleet/ government sales!! But no-one talks about that!!

The only real winner in this chart is Mazda 3 if you ask me!!


And on a personal view point, when there is more private buyers, buying Yaris over a Falcon, god help this country, becuase there is allot of stupid people out there!!!

[big_landau]

never driven a mazda 3 but i know a few people who own them and i would never buy one,for some reason i can hear the motors in them on a cold start rattling there heads off,maybe its just their cars im not sure but the last one i heard was from across the street it was rattling that loud.

[In Focus]

Why the **** do people buy a Yaris or a Mazda over a Fiesta? Both inferior cars, especially the ancient Yaris. The new Focus is even more in front of the Cruze, but I'll bet it'll still be out-sold at least two to one.

Come on, Ford, get your marketing act together!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by In Focus

Why the **** do people buy a Yaris or a Mazda over a Fiesta? Both inferior cars, especially the ancient Yaris. The new Focus is even more in front of the Cruze, but I'll bet it'll still be out-sold at least two to one.

Come on, Ford, get your marketing act together!

One reason is the Ford customer experience. Courtesy of your local Ford dealer and Ford CRC.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

One reason is the Ford customer experience. Courtesy of your local Ford dealer and Ford CRC.

LOL, if that were the case Holden would be broke by now, their Customer service makes Ford's look Gold Star.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

People can be so dumb sometimes.. The big large 6's have ALWAYS relied on fleet & government sales.. A 70/30% ish split is what it was 10-20-30 years ago!! Nothing new, just the overall number has dropped, which we already know!! I bet 15 years ago Corolla & Holden’s small car weren't getting 30% & 40% fleet/ government sales!! But no-one talks about that!!

Everyone knows that large cars have always had large fleet sales. What this article shows is that private buyers have dropped off a cliff for these cars. If Falcon was selling 70,000 a year and had 30% private sales (21,000) then its not an issue - but 2000 private sales so far is a joke. The private buyers appear to be going to the small car class and spending up big on high-priced models.

Why hasnt the proportion of private sales increased as fleet sales decreased?

Another scary fact is that Holden is selling three times as many cars to private buyers than the Falcon.... now where is that V8 again?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Another scary fact is that Holden is selling three times as many cars to private buyers than the Falcon.... now where is that V8 again?

Toyota are selling even more with no V8, no turbo and all front wheel drive......

[jpd80]

Falcon fighting the battle with one hand tied behind its back, now that the EcoLPI engine is here, Holden won't be
getting any easy fleet sales, the lower running costs of the LPG Falcon will surely displace quite a few Omega sales.....
Not to mention increased commercial sales when the Ute picks up the EcoLPI engine, fleet buyers love the LPG ute

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Everyone knows that large cars have always had large fleet sales. What this article shows is that private buyers have dropped off a cliff for these cars. If Falcon was selling 70,000 a year and had 30% private sales (21,000) then its not an issue - but 2000 private sales so far is a joke. The private buyers appear to be going to the small car class and spending up big on high-priced models.

Why hasnt the proportion of private sales increased as fleet sales decreased?

Another scary fact is that Holden is selling three times as many cars to private buyers than the Falcon.... now where is that V8 again?

And you missed my point!!! Yes, large cars are dropping, we all know that much. But the drop has come evenly from fleet & private buyers.. To suggest private buyers have walked away & fleets have stayed when the 70/30 split has been around for decades is misleading!!


Also, Falcon sells more to private sector than the Commodore. 71% for Falcon & 69% for Commdore as per this article, so why is a V8 so important when Falcon sells more to private buyers as a percentage than commodore?

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by flappist

Toyota are selling even more with no V8, no turbo and all front wheel drive......

Really, I didn't see Camry on either one of those lists. I'd love to see how many private sales there were for the Camry/Aurion twins.

[Chopped]

I didn't realize how much the Mazda 3 dominates the private market, and can't see it changing anytime soon. My Mazda experience has been excellent (in all areas).

Cruze is a surprise, it's almost beating the Corolla (keep in mind it only has the one body style).

Sad for large cars. I'm part of the problem though because every large car I have purchased has been second hand.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Wayne351

LOL, if that were the case Holden would be broke by now, their Customer service makes Ford's look Gold Star.

Well as far as private buyers are concerned Ford is already gone. To be fair to Holden, they do recall cars and fix them on occassion, which is a step up on Ford, who dodge and weave that responsibility every time. Still I expect if Holden don't improve they will get the same result in the end. They just have more loyal customers to burn through first.

The days of treating private customers like the big three use to are over. Punters have too much choice now on the market to put up with that.

[Road_Warrior]

People are forgetting that C-segment cars (Mazda 3, Focus, Cruze et al) all compete in one of the most cut-throat segments in the market place, with over 20 competitors in that segment alone. Profits on a car sold in this segment are modest. The makers of those cars are fortunate that they have volume on their side, otherwise there would be red ink everywhere.