Falcon bad news.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Do they? That's pretty sad. No way would I finance a depreciating asset like a car. If a 'working bloke' can't afford $20000, they shouldn't be financing it in the first place. I must be living in another world.

We both are, I too pay cash for my cars but i know the vast majority of buyers finance,
be that personal loan, Higher purchase, dealer finance brokers, novated leases and what not

What kills Falcon and Commodore is the cost of repayments plus running costs when compared
to small cars, that's why so many are buying smaller cars, nearly half the cost......

In terms of SUVs and 4WDs and Dual Cab Utes, buyers there obviously see value
or a need as opposed to a large sedan.

Things look grim because everyone is basing success and failure on two dud months
but Ford has spent a lot of cash and needs to hang in there and make Falcon work..

[OZQUAD44]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. The Brazilian F250 for Australia was not the same as the US-spec. I have driven both. Then you compare the current model Ranger, with the decade-old model cheaply-built Brazilian F250 that didn't even feature a glovebox. The current F-150 is at least every bit as good as the global Ranger. Both the new Ranger and the F150 are light years ahead of the 10 yr old Brazilian F250. Even my 05 F-150 has still very good. 96,000 miles on the clock now, and not one squeak or rattle. Fully-boxed frame. No major repairs ever needed. Steering feels very tight, no play like the old F-250. The current F-150 is much improved over the 2005 model. I'm not suggesting the Ranger isn't impressive, because it is. But it doesn't take anything away from the F150.

OK fine, the US model F150 is better that the decade-old model cheaply-built Brazilian F250 that didn't even feature a glovebox standard. I stand corrected.

I'm sorry but you are also incorrect. I did not say Australian delivered F250 is the same specification as the US spec. Where exactly did I say that?

I was actually talking about Australian delivered F trucks, and I was not trying to compare an F150 to a Ranger. This was not my intention.

My points were simple. Aussie delivered F250's were CRAP, and the RANGER is really good.

And I only surmised that the F trucks in the US were probably not much better, and on that point I'm happy to take your word Chev.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by chevypower

It doesn't make economic sense in the US. US customers would not pay $40-50k for a midsize. Ford would not be willing to sell it for $22-25k.

The peeved US Ranger fans can't comprehend that, though. They're just angry!

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On a positive note, since there's less late model Falcons around, the resale value should be getting better especially for FG..
And since there less of them around to buy, that may encourage some buyers back into the new car market.

I encourage potential buyers whenever I get the chance, at least when I get through with them, they won't die wondering...LOL

I had someone in the office ask me what car had the best expected resale value of current cars on sale based on some numbers he saw.

The answer? The current FPV GT-P and GT-E! His numbers showed it at somewhere around 78% after 3 years. >Boggled<

I don't know what numbers he was looking at. Was it Redbook? Wheels? How can that be? It would be worth following that one up.


Lukeyson

[csv8]

Luke Plaizier. This is from Cars Guide..2009 FORD FPV GT-E FG
Body:SedanPower:315kW @6500rpmFuel:Premium Unleaded5.4L / 8 Cyl5 Seater4 doorView similar cars for sale >>
Estimated Values
Private price
Trade in value
Dealer price
$37800-46200$35500-42000$N/A
Not 78%..more like 50%..which is better than the normal Falcon of 30%.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I had someone in the office ask me what car had the best expected resale value of current cars on sale based on some numbers he saw.

The answer? The current FPV GT-P and GT-E! His numbers showed it at somewhere around 78% after 3 years. >Boggled<

I don't know what numbers he was looking at. Was it Redbook? Wheels? How can that be? It would be worth following that one up.


Lukeyson

Get real - every 6 months FPV have a clearance sale which is 15% off RRP ...no car in the world is worth 78% after 3 years.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

OK fine, the US model F150 is better that the decade-old model cheaply-built Brazilian F250 that didn't even feature a glovebox standard. I stand corrected.

I'm sorry but you are also incorrect. I did not say Australian delivered F250 is the same specification as the US spec. Where exactly did I say that?

I was actually talking about Australian delivered F trucks, and I was not trying to compare an F150 to a Ranger. This was not my intention.

My points were simple. Aussie delivered F250's were CRAP, and the RANGER is really good.

And I only surmised that the F trucks in the US were probably not much better, and on that point I'm happy to take your word Chev.

Fair enough, I assumed you were talking about the Aus spec as you told people to judge based on experience of driving one.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by csv8

Luke Plaizier. This is from Cars Guide..2009 FORD FPV GT-E FG
Body:SedanPower:315kW @6500rpmFuel:Premium Unleaded5.4L / 8 Cyl5 Seater4 doorView similar cars for sale >>
Estimated Values
Private price
Trade in value
Dealer price
$37800-46200$35500-42000$N/A
Not 78%..more like 50%..which is better than the normal Falcon of 30%.

I did say the CURRENT FPV's, not the 315kW 2009 model. I know their resale was poor.

He's claiming it was from the latest Wheels magazine.


Luke

[jpd80]

Ah, those are projected residual values, they could differ from actual resale values

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Wow, so the biggest car market in the world supports a lot of variety? There’s a shocker. We could import a greater variety of makes & models here, but the size of the market makes that uneconomical.

Then why has it been stated we have near the most open market there is, with more manufacturers/models that almost any other nation?

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

And on what did you base your assessment of value?

If it is a generic product produced (that I deem having functional use or would gain appreciation/performance from) for a world market, compare landed prices of Australian purchase vs world purchase: eg a model kit here in an Aussie shop is $229, same thing delivered to door from Japan $130. No brainer.

For uniquely Australian products, willing to pay a premium. Eg a Territory might retail 45-50K in AWD form, in US equivalent might be 31-35K. You can't get a Territory in the US (or Europe, Saudi, anywhere), you can't get its level of tuning and ride/handling for Australian roads, so the opportunity to buy it is unique to Australia (and NZ) and it's worth more to me. Perhaps my OP wasn't clear.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The problem if they try to sell the Taurus and Explorer here without substantial localisation, is that they just won’t be attractive enough to Australian buyers. The Taurus would probably sell ok as a Taxi, but that’s about it.
If my choice is between a European Mondeo with a Turbo 4, and a Taurus straight off the boat from American, I’ll be going with the Mondeo.

Agree with you on this one. Localisation has been a key appeal of the Aussie Ford products here (so I place value on it). If the choice was between a Mondeo and a Taurus, I'd take the Mondeo too. But it's not. We have a unique Australian Falcon and Territory, and like others have said above, if they go they will be missed and their values appreciated more than they are today. They are already rare and exclusive, if you view things from a global perspective.

[Pepscobra]

I was back in my home town last week and spent some time with my Dad... he mentioned he was finally ready to buy a new car.
Great I thought, lets head down to our local Ford dealer for a look-see at the new Falcon and Territory!
Nah, he said... They're too big for him and Mum he reckons. He said he liked the look of the new Jeep Patriot, so off he went to have a look. Trying to get him to wait for the new Kuga, but not sure if they'll have a diesel option.
Here is a guy that has owned Fords his entire life. Ford have just lost touch with customers like this.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

I was back in my home town last week and spent some time with my Dad... he mentioned he was finally ready to buy a new car.
Great I thought, lets head down to our local Ford dealer for a look-see at the new Falcon and Territory!
Nah, he said... They're too big for him and Mum he reckons. He said he liked the look of the new Jeep Patriot, so off he went to have a look. Trying to get him to wait for the new Kuga, but not sure if they'll have a diesel option.
Here is a guy that has owned Fords his entire life. Ford have just lost touch with customers like this.

You do realise that the Patriot is based on the Mitsubishi Lancer/Outlander/ASX platform..

LOL, maybe FoA should replace Falcon with a Ford version of the ASX off the territory...call it Edge.....

Yeah, I get where you're coming from, a lot of older Ford buyers are now switching to Asian brands,
I think it's the lure of good space with external compact size and perceived thrifty economy.
Whatever the case, it's obvious that either the Ford brand or their products are not reaching
enough potential buyers...

[Polyal]

Doesnt want a falcon but is ok with a Patriot? Different. Look up its safety rating, I cant remember if its that one or the Compass but they are tarted up old platforms. Dont fall for the price and gizmo list.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Doesnt want a falcon but is ok with a Patriot? Different. Look up its safety rating, I cant remember if its that one or the Compass but they are tarted up old platforms. Dont fall for the price and gizmo list.

I believe it was the Jeep Compass that scored a 2-star safety rating in the latest EUROCAP testing. I don't know how the Patriot fared - but any company that is willing to put a 2-star anything out in today's market certainly won't be getting my business!

[Pepscobra]

I don't know much about the Jeep Patriot (he probably didnt either, hadnt researched it much), it was just a car he said he liked the look of... it was more the fact that he would consider something other than a Ford for his next new car that nearly made me fall off my chair.
Makes me think the Falcon really is in big trouble if blue-blooded buyers like this wont even consider the locally made Fords. Was a bit of a reality check.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Doesnt want a falcon but is ok with a Patriot? Different. Look up its safety rating, I cant remember if its that one or the Compass but they are tarted up old platforms. Dont fall for the price and gizmo list.

The Compass is the worst. It was built on the Caliber (Neon replacement) chassis. It was the only Jeep that wasn't available with a trail rating.

I sat in one at a car show--it was the least impressive vehicle I've ever seen.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

I don't know much about the Jeep Patriot (he probably didnt either, hadnt researched it much), it was just a car he said he liked the look of... it was more the fact that he would consider something other than a Ford for his next new car that nearly made me fall off my chair.
Makes me think the Falcon really is in big trouble if blue-blooded buyers like this wont even consider the locally made Fords. Was a bit of a reality check.

The problem is Ford have no offering in that segment. At around $25k, and based off the Lancer/ASX/Outlander platform, it's pretty hard to argue with. I'd personally choose the ASX as it's a much better car all round, for the same price.

Look at Ford's offering in the segment - Territory (much bigger and more expensive) or Kuga. Kuga is nearing on for $15k more expensive, even for the base model and has a thirsty turbo petrol engine and 5 speed auto. It's just missing the mark of what the market wants.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

Then why has it been stated we have near the most open market there is, with more manufacturers/models that almost any other nation?

Beats me, I seriously don’t know why anyone would make such a bizarre statement.

My point was that if you go to America with a fistful of Aussie Dollars, go to some town where unemployment is 50% and the local Ford dealer is giving away a free house with every new car, then sure a new Mustang with the Boss V8 looks cheap. You take it for a spin, windows down to listen to that beautiful engine, and all is wonderful until you come to the first corner or pothole, then you realise A) WHY it was so cheap, and B) why it hardly sells at all outside the USA.

But yes I agree with you 100% on the Falcon/ Territory thing. I’m not interested in buying a new car unless it’s something I WANT. The Falcon is a brilliant and uniquely Australian balance between the size and power of Americana and the handling and refinement of Europe. Bang for Buck the I6 is a great engine. I’m still looking at getting the Missus a 2nd hand Turbo Territory, simply because they are brilliant cars. And I for one will be queuing up in 2016 to buy one of the last Australian Falcons.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

My point was that if you go to America with a fistful of Aussie Dollars, go to some town where unemployment is 50% and the local Ford dealer is giving away a free house with every new car, then sure a new Mustang with the Boss V8 looks cheap. You take it for a spin, windows down to listen to that beautiful engine, and all is wonderful until you come to the first corner or pothole, then you realise A) WHY it was so cheap, and B) why it hardly sells at all outside the USA.

Have you driven one?

[banarcus]

I wish I could! I'd have one in a heartbeat.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nic85

The problem is Ford have no offering in that segment. At around $25k, and based off the Lancer/ASX/Outlander platform, it's pretty hard to argue with. I'd personally choose the ASX as it's a much better car all round, for the same price.

Look at Ford's offering in the segment - Territory (much bigger and more expensive) or Kuga. Kuga is nearing on for $15k more expensive, even for the base model and has a thirsty turbo petrol engine and 5 speed auto. It's just missing the mark of what the market wants.

The problem is that FoE is hanging onto it high demand 2.0 TDCI so even if you could get
vehicles at the right price, the engines are unobtainium because Ford has the silly idea that
Asia doesn't want diesel, prefers Ecoboost so they won't build a 1.6/2.0 diesel line there.

IMO, Geelong should be reconfigured as a regional supply plant for diesel and
Ecoboost engines, that would then underpin changing Broadmeadows to either
global platforms or "corporate sourced" local designs.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Have you driven one?

My Canadian cousins ,friend, wouldn't agree, wrapped in her V8 convertible for $30kca drive away.....

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by csv8

My Canadian cousins ,friend, wouldn't agree, wrapped in her V8 convertible for $30kca drive away.....

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Have you driven one?

Originally Posted by banarcus

I wish I could! I'd have one in a heartbeat.

Admittedly not for a while, I seriously looked at one of the limited few that Ford/Tickford flogged here. That was maybe 6 years ago, and it was couple of years old, but minimal k’s. IIRC these were American Mustangs, converted locally to RHD by Tickford (or maybe it was FPV by then???)
I think these were still based on the “Fox” platform, and had the 4.6 modular V8. Good engine, beautiful noise, and went like a rocket in a straight line.
Car wasn’t bad looking, still had good presence, but nothing like the current model.’
Inside was tacky, like something from the 70’s. Ride was both uncomfortable and yet sloppy, and the steering was just plain scary.

I actually love Americana, and if I ever get around to it, I will have a huge piece of Yank iron just for a Sunday Cruiser. Who knows, when the current model Mustang meets the age limit for LHD registration, I might even upgrade. But if you want a car with some balance between handling and driveability, then you’re not going to find it in the USA. (Just like you won’t find a Vegan Tofu salad at Macca’s, it’s just not their market.)

As for your Canadian Cousin’s Friend, I don’t know how many different ways I can explain this: I’d LOVE to be able to live in the US at the moment whilst keeping my AUD salary. I could buy a huge McMansion for a fraction of what my house cost, A new Mustang, Lincoln, & SUV in the drive, a near-new boat for fraction of what they sell for here, and maybe a Hispanic Gardener & Maid.
But ten years ago the situations were reversed, and what if that happens again. A few years back FoA decided to axe the I6 on the basis that they could import a yank V6 for half the price, then the AUD tanked and they backflipped.
I’m just concerned that if they abandon local assembly completely in favour of fully imported Faurus & Texplorer, and the then the US economy & USD rebounds, they’ll be priced out of the market and we’ll all be driving cars built in Thailand and Africa.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

But ten years ago the situations were reversed, and what if that happens again. A few years back FoA decided to axe the I6 on the basis that they could import a yank V6 for half the price, then the AUD tanked and they backflipped.

The decision to import the V6 was not based on it being half the price...not at all.
It was based on the very false premise that the I-6 could not be made Euro 4 withput significant upgrades.

I’m just concerned that if they abandon local assembly completely in favour of fully imported Faurus & Texplorer, and the then the US economy & USD rebounds, they’ll be priced out of the market and we’ll all be driving cars built in Thailand and Africa.

Only if the US pays off it's $15 Trillion debt, believe me they have no idea where to begin.
There is every likelihood that their debt ceiling will have to be increased several times more
before they even get a handle on paying back the interest on the loan..

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Get real - every 6 months FPV have a clearance sale which is 15% off RRP ...no car in the world is worth 78% after 3 years.

I agree but its worth remembering that those stat's are based on the percentage of the original retail, not as a percentage of the price the buyer actually paid. I paid $60K cash for my brand new BF2 Typhoon and got 2/3 rd's back after 3 years. Don't do many miles though and that car was looked after like a pet. Only posted this because I'm soooo sick of the bad news.

[jpd80]

And those discounts from FPV only apply to a very few cars in dealerships...

[martyk54]

I've just pulled the order of my XR6T Ute and will be buying something else (non-Ford). I've been stuffed around no end since November last year when I ordered it, in-turn the company has lost all of my respect. Note that myself and family have also purchased 8 Fords new in the last 20 years.

I was promised the car 2 weeks ago, and made the necessary requirements in preparation for it... so I've basically ended up without a car at all, and an 'indefinite' status of it's delivery. I could write a book about the other examples of incompetence I've had to deal with in the process of ordering this particular car.

I call Ford (not the dealer) to voice my concerns, they say they'll have someone call be back about the car... no call, no surprise! I call back again and they don't even try to answer my questions with anything credible so when I threaten to pull the order, all they say it's got nothing to do with them, they sell the car wholesale to the dealer and that's it. In other words, the bloke couldn't give a ****... so goodbye sale, goodbye Ford from a loyal customer and family.

Those who are saying that Ford seemingly don't care is consistent with what I've witnessed. They are a changed company, an absolute rabble of an outfit, which is headed in one direction. Now to decide on my replacement car...

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by martyk54

I've just pulled the order of my XR6T Ute and will be buying something else (non-Ford). I've been stuffed around no end since November last year when I ordered it, in-turn the company has lost all of my respect. Note that myself and family have also purchased 8 Fords new in the last 20 years.

I was promised the car 2 weeks ago, and made the necessary requirements in preparation for it... so I've basically ended up without a car at all, and an 'indefinite' status of it's delivery. I could write a book about the other examples of incompetence I've had to deal with in the process of ordering this particular car.

I call Ford (not the dealer) to voice my concerns, they say they'll have someone call be back about the car... no call, no surprise! I call back again and they don't even try to answer my questions with anything credible so when I threaten to pull the order, all they say it's got nothing to do with them, they sell the car wholesale to the dealer and that's it. In other words, the bloke couldn't give a ****... so goodbye sale, goodbye Ford from a loyal customer and family.

Those who are saying that Ford seemingly don't care is consistent with what I've witnessed. They are a changed company, an absolute rabble of an outfit, which is headed in one direction. Now to decide on my replacement car...

This is disappointing, but not inconsistent with other stories I've heard about the Ford buying experience recently.
Its one thing to say that the Falcon Is short lived because people dont want/need it anymore, but how do you explain the lost sales due to the poor dealer service??

What state are you in?
It would be such a shame, as the XR6T is brilliant... would you consider trying another dealer? Unfortunately the dealer experience is a big part of buying a new car. If you're in WA, I can highly recommend McInerney Ford.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

This is disappointing, but not inconsistent with other stories I've heard about the Ford buying experience recently.
Its one thing to say that the Falcon Is short lived because people dont want/need it anymore, but how do you explain the lost sales due to the poor dealer service??

What state are you in?
It would be such a shame, as the XR6T is brilliant... would you consider trying another dealer? Unfortunately the dealer experience is a big part of buying a new car. If you're in WA, I can highly recommend McInerney Ford.

Unfortunately my gripes are just as much aimed at Ford itself as the dealer. You're right, the XR6T is brilliant, I've owned a BA and FG.. both sedans. WRX, Golf GTI and Megane RS are also brilliant though... too much choice to commit 40k+ to a company who couldn't give a damn.

[jpd80]

Hmm, very disappointing to hear.
I bet that martyk54 will be able to walk into a Holden dealership and basically, drive out in a SS within days..