First drive - Ecoboost!!

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

All this argument about the government supporting or not supporting auto manufacturers in this country.

The biggest Govt support for an industry is mining/resources via the diesel fuel tax rebate, which incidentally the Greens are trying to get rid of.

Right, so by not taxing them for not using the roads, you consider that “government support”?
Anything else you think they should be taxed for not using? Or why not just slap a super tax on them simply because they appear to be the only industry bucking the government’s attempt to completely **** the economy?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Sounds like hard work... I want the XR6 EcoLPi with luxo pack. (50k+)So I will start scrimping.

And that is the point.

You don't want a new car unless it is an up market luxury version which is your excuse to not buy it.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

By the time I was your age I had already owned a new Falcon (XC), new Gemini and new Laser. The trick was "I wanted to buy a new car" and worked 3 jobs (Apprentice Electrician, Pinball machine repair & VCR/TV installation) in order to pay for them in addition to all my other expenses.

My cars were all bottom of the range, no options with no car sound except a radio, no mags, no fully sic mods and were my prides and joy.

Of course I did not have the latest phone, game consoles, computer, name brand fashion and drank cheap beer instead of alcopops, only went to a fast food shop on very rare occasions, did not have a credit card or 43, did not own a TV/Stereo/(insert expensive toy here) went to the beach for a swim or the footy to watch a game for free rather than watching a movie in $30 seats at a cinema.

A number of my friends also had new cars. They also worked hard and did without "trendy luxuries".

A new Falcon is $30k (a years wage at entry level). That is only $100+/- a week on finance if you have no deposit, much less if you do.

So you CAN afford a new Falcon if you really want one.....

Just to put in another perspective, no doubt your achievements are commendable, but at what age was this done? Did you actually enjoy your childhood/teens/early 20's or just worked? I guess the answer doesnt matter but your only in your teens/youngish once so I wouldnt think that advising a younger person to work three jobs is the best thing to do.

Also financing a car is ok if you understand the long term commitment, the awful interest component and then how you will be paying for something that will be worth less than 50% of its original value in a few years. Now if you can offset some of that through a good accountant then fine, most kids are not in that position.

But if you have nothing better to do with your time than work for a car then go for it, but at the end of the day its just a car.

So yeah most people with a regular income could buy a new car if they forgo other luxuries, but is it really worth it? Not when your young IMO, enjoy life, travel etc and get some real world experience. Anyone can service a loan if they work hard, and some by not working hard.

I see many P platers with brand new commies/falcons, and good on them if they dropped $30k cash on it, but seriously, if they are getting finance on that then they would be doing stuff all other than working to pay it off..how is that fun or a good use of those funds at that age?

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Right, so by not taxing them for not using the roads, you consider that “government support”?
Anything else you think they should be taxed for not using? Or why not just slap a super tax on them simply because they appear to be the only industry bucking the government’s attempt to completely **** the economy?

I'm not saying that it isn't right - other countries give their extractive industries even bigger support. All I'm saying is why the big fuss over the little government support that the auto manufacturers get?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Just to put in another perspective, no doubt your achievements are commendable, but at what age was this done? Did you actually enjoy your childhood/teens/early 20's or just worked? I guess the answer doesnt matter but your only in your teens/youngish once so I wouldnt think that advising a younger person to work three jobs is the best thing to do.

Also financing a car is ok if you understand the long term commitment, the awful interest component and then how you will be paying for something that will be worth less than 50% of its original value in a few years. Now if you can offset some of that through a good accountant then fine, most kids are not in that position.

But if you have nothing better to do with your time than work for a car then go for it, but at the end of the day its just a car.

So yeah most people with a regular income could buy a new car if they forgo other luxuries, but is it really worth it? Not when your young IMO, enjoy life, travel etc and get some real world experience. Anyone can service a loan if they work hard, and some by not working hard.

I see many P platers with brand new commies/falcons, and good on them if they dropped $30k cash on it, but seriously, if they are getting finance on that then they would be doing stuff all other than working to pay it off..how is that fun or a good use of those funds at that age?

Well the primary word here is "commitment" which seems to be something that almost everyone under 30 wants nothing to do with.
The world does not owe anyone anything and this whole "I will have fun now and work later" attitude is a major reason why there are a lot of financial problems in Australia.

But as you asked. I started work at 7 delivering newspapers and bread for 20c per week, by the time I was 14 I was working 30 hours a week in a petrol station after school and on weekends.
I bought my first car for cash at the age of 17 ($850 for a 8 year old holden eq. to a 2004 model now). While at uni I worked in various jobs and then started delivering newspapers in my shiny new XC panelvan ($6600) driving over 5000km a week for almost 2 years. I then left uni and worked as an apprentice elec tricition in the power generation and transmission industry dropping the paper run to one day a week and fixing pinball machines and installing TVs and VCRs after hours and on weekends. The XC with over 400,000km on it was replaced with a Gemini panelvan in which I did 181,000km in 2 years before I sold it and bought a Laser as the paper deliveries had grown to require a truck and I was not interested. I then started my current business wich has been going ever since.

Was it worth it? Yes very much so. Did I miss out on things? Yep.

I like cars and I like driving and for me the cars were more important than drugs, bludging at the beach and wasting time.
But then I have been places and done things that you will NEVER be able to do because I did them before the nannies got involved.

Short list:
250km/h on an Australian highway and overtaken a police car at over 160km/h legally.
Pig hunting with a belt fed machine gun.
Riding MX bikes on the high dunes on Fraser island.
Camped on the beach and lit a fire drinking beer in front of a surf club.
And about a squillion other things that are now totally evil.

But back to the topic. I bought a new falcon when I was 18 because I wanted a new falcon. I could not afford it on my primary income so I compensated so I could afford it.

What I did not do is complain that it was a rip off, too expensive, depreciated too much, would interfere with the "important" things and did not put it and other things off.

As I stated earlier, if you want a new falcon you CAN afford it. The problem is that too many see a new falcon as "below them" unless it is a high end model with all the farkles which is really somewhat ironic in that if you can't afford to buy one then it is not the car that is "below".

In saying that if you want a GT but decide you can only afford a used one then there is no problem with that as somebody has to buy the trade ins but in that case remember it is YOU who does not WANT to buy a new Falcon not CAN'T buy a new Falcon....

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well the primary word here is "commitment" which seems to be something that almost everyone under 30 wants nothing to do with.
The world does not owe anyone anything and this whole "I will have fun now and work later" attitude is a major reason why there are a lot of financial problems in Australia.

But as you asked. I started work at 7 delivering newspapers and bread for 20c per week, by the time I was 14 I was working 30 hours a week in a petrol station after school and on weekends.
I bought my first car for cash at the age of 17 ($850 for a 8 year old holden eq. to a 2004 model now). While at uni I worked in various jobs and then started delivering newspapers in my shiny new XC panelvan ($6600) driving over 5000km a week for almost 2 years. I then left uni and worked as an apprentice elec tricition in the power generation and transmission industry dropping the paper run to one day a week and fixing pinball machines and installing TVs and VCRs after hours and on weekends. The XC with over 400,000km on it was replaced with a Gemini panelvan in which I did 181,000km in 2 years before I sold it and bought a Laser as the paper deliveries had grown to require a truck and I was not interested. I then started my current business wich has been going ever since.

Was it worth it? Yes very much so. Did I miss out on things? Yep.

I like cars and I like driving and for me the cars were more important than drugs, bludging at the beach and wasting time.
But then I have been places and done things that you will NEVER be able to do because I did them before the nannies got involved.

Short list:
250km/h on an Australian highway and overtaken a police car at over 160km/h legally.
Pig hunting with a belt fed machine gun.
Riding MX bikes on the high dunes on Fraser island.
Camped on the beach and lit a fire drinking beer in front of a surf club.
And about a squillion other things that are now totally evil.

But back to the topic. I bought a new falcon when I was 18 because I wanted a new falcon. I could not afford it on my primary income so I compensated so I could afford it.

What I did not do is complain that it was a rip off, too expensive, depreciated too much, would interfere with the "important" things and did not put it and other things off.

As I stated earlier, if you want a new falcon you CAN afford it. The problem is that too many see a new falcon as "below them" unless it is a high end model with all the farkles which is really somewhat ironic in that if you can't afford to buy one then it is not the car that is "below".

In saying that if you want a GT but decide you can only afford a used one then there is no problem with that as somebody has to buy the trade ins but in that case remember it is YOU who does not WANT to buy a new Falcon not CAN'T buy a new Falcon....

Its all to clear now why you respond the way you do to people,thankyou for the insight.

Where do you get this "too many" lable from Flappist?

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by burnz

tell me why govco shoudn't support auto industry?

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...&postcount=199

Is there some belief that if you post it twice, the fairy tale becomes more believable. Just for the record, the australian car industry has made about 220,000 to 240,000 cars over the last few years. Using your figures it would equate to

annual turnover $160+billion = $660,000 per car made
tax revenue $10 billion = $40,000 per car made
direct employment 60,000 including component suppliers = 4 cars made for each employee
direct/indirect employment 400,000 = .6 cars for each employee
the industry has 110,000 businesses = 1 business for two cars made
R&D $798 million = $3200 per car made.

Using figures that include the 87% of cars that are imported (yes 87% of salesman, mechanics, detailers etc that are included in your figures work on imported cars), doesnt do your argument any good.

I mean even to use the $160 billion in turnover to try and link that to "the local industry" is completely false as it doesnt even relate to total cars sales. 1 million cars per year (imported and locally made), would have to be sold at $160,000 each to come to that total.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Its all to clear now why you respond the way you do to people,thankyou for the insight.

Where do you get this "too many" lable from Flappist?

Well it is not really a label and definitely not a "lable" but as you are asking such an informed and intelligent question I will reply with this:

Do you think that there are not enough, just the right amount or too many people who are not prepared to commit to their future and squander their time in the belief that they have no inate responsibility and everyone else will look after them in the future?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well it is not really a label and definitely not a "lable" but as you are asking such and informed and intelligent question I will reply with this:

Do you think that there are not enough, just the right amount or too many people who are not prepared to commit to their future and squander their time in the belief that they have no inate responsibility and everyone else will look after them in the future?

Like you alluded to, we all make choices and prioritise things differently. Viva la différence.

Its a shame you have a generalised view of younger people today, while its easy to make examples of the bad eggs from any generation or location we often overlook the ones doing "the right thing" because they make less noise.

One could easily mistake your noted "illegal nasties short list" as simply Speedin, Shootin and Drinkin and paint you in a certain way aswell, and most of us know that would be a little unfair. Funny to note I dont think these things havent really changed at all over the years, drugs where around back then too, you can still go shooting and even though we have harsher laws etc people still "speed".

Working hard to buy a new car is great, working just to pay a car off so you can say you have a new car seems like odd. But your right, perhaps getting off topic.

The EB theory is good, no one is forced to buy it and hopefully those who do need such a car give it a chance.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Like you alluded to, we all make choices and prioritise things differently. Viva la différence.

Its a shame you have a generalised view of younger people today, while its easy to make examples of the bad eggs from any generation or location we often overlook the ones doing "the right thing" because they make less noise.

One could easily mistake your noted "illegal nasties short list" as simply Speedin, Shootin and Drinkin and paint you in a certain way aswell, and most of us know that would be a little unfair. Funny to note I dont think these things havent really changed at all over the years, drugs where around back then too, you can still go shooting and even though we have harsher laws etc people still "speed".

Working hard to buy a new car is great, working just to pay a car off so you can say you have a new car seems like odd. But your right, perhaps getting off topic.

The EB theory is good, no one is forced to buy it and hopefully those who do need such a car give it a chance.

Yes but the difference is that YOU think that driving fast, shooting and recreation that includes drinking are BAD things.......

How would you feel if the next generation think that non solar electric vehicles are eco-vandalism and all cars must be GPS limited to 30km/h and you were viewed as crazy because you used to do 110 in a petrol powered vehicle?

As far as you can still do all of the above please tell me on which roads you can exceed 130km/h legally, where you can hunt with automatic rifles or even just hunt on non private land and on which patrolled public beaches can you camp overnight, start a fire and have a beer?

It is also intersting that you seem to think that speeding and driving fast are the same thing........

But this is getting VERY off topic.

Ecoboost is here, it is P plate legal and is cheap enough that almost anyone with a job can afford one.

In the majority of cases the only reason why you buy something else instead of a new Falcon is that you want something else instead of a new Falcon whether that be different car, a party lifestyle, a house, a boat, a motorcycle a whatever......

I made my choices, you can make yours but in very few cases the reason why you do not buy a new Falcon is Ford's fault.

[Polyal]

I never said they where bad things, been places and done things I will never do? Dont be so sure of that and dont think the shoe cant go on the other foot.

You get to sensationalistic and blow things out of proportion while your trying to make your point. Does it somehow make you more of a person to hunt with an automatic weapon, drive fast (call it speeding whatever) and light fires? Seriously? Oh no they are taking all our freedoms away! I see where your going with the 30kph thing and wont entertain it.
For the speeding/fast definition, we both know better. And it is very off topic but it seems ok for you to continue.

An EB cheap enough that anyone with a job can afford one and P plate legal? Who was complaining about the cost? Are these the same P platers who "your generation" have a crack at for staying home and not moving out, but its ok if you use the cash to finance new cars? One would hope people prioritise moving along with their lives, not so much about transport.

Times have changed, even your "I was working from 7" claim does work overly well these days. Even to drop catalogs off and pick up orders a next door neighbor had to get written consent from their parents and change the company policy (its a well known brand) and they are 13!

But yeah way OT, Im happy to stop so if you must continue being picky then go for it or just delete the post.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

I made my choices, you can make yours but in very few cases the reason why you do not buy a new Falcon is Ford's fault.

i think this is true. many people on here call themselves ford fans and want a ford (falcon) in their driveway, but because it is out of their price or doesn't suit their needs, then suddenly it all becomes fords fault.

getting back to ecoboost, its a big step into the unknown for ford and there's probably more than a few nervous people there at the moment. the falcon nameplate is synonymous with a big rwd family sedan and its a bit risky changing an element of that. i think they are banking on the fact that apart from a very small handful of enthusiasts and some people with tunnel vision, most people don't really care what the makeup of the driveline is.

i'm sure there will be many reviews where people jump in and mash the throttle and end up with fuel figures similar to the 6cyl and then stand there pointing saying 'i told you so, 4cyl don't work in large cars'!! etc etc. there will also be many who trundle around not needing to get up to 60 in the blink of an eye and will make full use of the improved economy. you only have to look around at the growing number of camry's, i45's, accords etc to realise the 'large engine in large car' thinking isn't as prevalent anymore.

i think if i was choosing between the 3 options for families at the moment (ecoboost, ecolpi and N/A 6cyl) the petrol 6 would be last on the list of preferences. of course everones situation is different.

[mrghia]

Good to see its getting back on topic. I think the idea is great I want the partner to drive one if she like it thence might look into a demo in a couple of months

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I'm not saying that it isn't right - other countries give their extractive industries even bigger support. All I'm saying is why the big fuss over the little government support that the auto manufacturers get?

True. The political handouts given to the auto industry are chicken ****. What the government should do is revamp the whole tax system to make our manufacturing more competitive, encourage long-term investment and enhance exports.

[Crazy Dazz]

Back on topic, I suspect this whole “Ecoboost” thing is being driven from Dearborn.
I just don’t see the attraction of an EcB Falcon? Personally, I would take the eColi Falcon any day, and for those that don’t need the power and performance of the I6, go for the Mondeo.
Don’t get me wrong, for the Falcon’s sake, I hope that it does bring in a renewed crop of buyers, even at the expense of the Mondeo. I just don’t see the attraction.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

And that is the point.

You don't want a new car unless it is an up market luxury version which is your excuse to not buy it.

I've been working casually since I was 15 and I saved every penny, I managed to get a base model WS Fiesta CL when I was 17, then I picked up my middle of the range Focus a bit over a year ago now through working a full time job and a casual job, no loans.

Its possible, they aren't nothing flash.

I'm probably going to buy another car when I'm off my Ps, might not go new again though.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Back on topic, I suspect this whole “Ecoboost” thing is being driven from Dearborn. .

Marin Burela saw an opportunity to develop a business case using two T6 Ranger mules,
even back then 2.0 diesel was pretty much unobtainium from Europe so Ecoboost was it.

I just don’t see the attraction of an EcB Falcon? Personally, I would take the eColi Falcon any day, and for those that don’t need the power and performance of the I6, go for the Mondeo.

Mondeo exports from Europe are heavily ham strung be they Diesel or Ecoboost,
EB Falcon offers Ford a great opportunity to expose Falcon to four cylinder buyers.

Don’t get me wrong, for the Falcon’s sake, I hope that it does bring in a renewed crop of buyers, even at the expense of the Mondeo. I just don’t see the attraction.

Ford have had EcoLPi on the market since last August-September but it really hasn't pulled sales,
FG II was released before Christmas but really hasn't increased sales anymore than FG.
I think Ecoboost is probably the final bullet in the gun for Ford, they need increased sales...

[Hally]

Are there any actual fleet buyers on this forum?

Whilst a number of great posts have been made on the forum in respect to an coboost Falcon now being ideal for fleets (4 cyl, emmissions, ancap rating etc, Australian made etc) I would like to hear a fleet buyers opinion.

Also, for anyone who is a potential private buyer, are you potentially put off the Ecoboost because its longer term reliability etc not proven as yet unlike the I6?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Hally

Also, for anyone who is a potential private buyer, are you potentially put off the Ecoboost because its longer term reliability etc not proven as yet unlike the I6?

From my point of view I don't think that really matters, as I wouldn't keep my cars for that long that you would start to see those sorts of issues.

Plus with any modern car you can see 300,000km+ without many issues regardless anyways.

[Hally]

Damo,

Fair point if you turn cars over regularly and stay in or close to a warranty period. Howver I was more thinking people who buy cars for say a 5 - 10 year period. Because the EB motor is high tech, if something does go wrong (out of warranty) what is the financial impact? I guess to some extend similar to a Mondeo with a similar motor. Just looking for a buyer perception.

[jpd80]

A lot of fleet vehicles are on fully maintained leases these days, they run them for two to four years and then they're gone.

Will they make excellent 21st century bogan vehicles in 10-15 years?
Who knows..., who cares

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Hally

Are there any actual fleet buyers on this forum?

Whilst a number of great posts have been made on the forum in respect to an coboost Falcon now being ideal for fleets (4 cyl, emmissions, ancap rating etc, Australian made etc) I would like to hear a fleet buyers opinion.

Also, for anyone who is a potential private buyer, are you potentially put off the Ecoboost because its longer term reliability etc not proven as yet unlike the I6?

Reasons why Ecoboost is good for fleets in QLD.

1) QLD Govt has a 4 cyl policy in fleet purchases.
2) Rego is over $200 cheaper than 6.
3) It is cheaper to run than the I6.
4) Its fuel is available widely and can be carried in jerrycans if necessary.
5) It weighs less than all the other models.
6) It costs the same as an I6.
7) It does not require risk assessments, special training or any of the other OH&S red tape.

There is a good chance we will see lots of these as GD, Admin & CIB vehicles.

Some or all of these may apply to your state but up here the EB4 is a winner.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Marin Burela saw an opportunity to develop a business case using two T6 Ranger mules,
even back then 2.0 diesel was pretty much unobtainium from Europe so Ecoboost was it.

Mondeo exports from Europe are heavily ham strung be they Diesel or Ecoboost,
EB Falcon offers Ford a great opportunity to expose Falcon to four cylinder buyers.

Ford have had EcoLPi on the market since last August-September but it really hasn't pulled sales,
FG II was released before Christmas but really hasn't increased sales anymore than FG.
I think Ecoboost is probably the final bullet in the gun for Ford, they need increased sales...

I say “driven from Dearborn” in the sense that there seems to be a big US push behind “Ecoboost.”
In terms of offering an “Economy” Falcon, I think there were/are better options and this was a strange choice. And yes, I think what you alluded to regarding availability is correct, with both the Terri & EcB Falcon, FoA is taking whatever it can get (cheap) engine wise.

My point is that Falcon (& Commode) have lost sales to the larger 4cyl FWD brigade. If buyers want economy over the power and drivability of the I6, I can’t see why the EcB would make them switch back?

I suppose if sales are going to be driven by perception, rather than fact, then buyers may still be wary of ecoli, however fleet buyers are usually smart enough to look past that.

If EcB sales eat into I6 or ecoli sales, then it is a pointless exercise.

However if stupid bureaucrats are going to buy them because it has 4 cylinders, then that is obviously good for Falcon.

[redman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

...

Ford have had EcoLPi on the market since last August-September but it really hasn't pulled sales,
FG II was released before Christmas but really hasn't increased sales anymore than FG.
I think Ecoboost is probably the final bullet in the gun for Ford, they need increased sales...

I decided in December to get an EcoLPI. Due to various conniptions, the paperwork was not signed until the end of January. I had order confirmation in early February. I am still waiting, delivery this month might be possible. That is the tale of one sale, I wonder if there are any more similar tales?

[barra240t]

Just drove one,

Falcon+Ecoboost = awesome

[flappist]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Just drove one,

Falcon+Ecoboost = awesome

98ron was $1.73/l down there on Sunday, I think the EB4 will draw a lot of attention.

[Chilliman]

I think some more comprehensive media drives are occurring right now as I type - let's hope they have something positive to say rather than defaulting to the standard anti-Ford biased diatribe!

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Just drove one,

Falcon+Ecoboost = awesome

Can you please elaborate on your experience?

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Can you please elaborate on your experience?

Sure, I'm no automotive writer though!

These are the points I really loved about the new ecoboost Falcon:

Pros:

Driving:

- Fantastic power and torque as soon as you put your foot down
- Kickdown is just as good as a 6cyl
- From launch, I personally think the little ecoboost sounds tops with the window down
- Very, very quite and smooth
- I didn't chuck it into corners like a madman, but the front does seem a lot lighter into corners

Back pocket:

- lower 4 cylinder rego
- lower insurance ?? not sure
- obviously fuel consumption

Cons:

My only one con is no sports model, no XR, no SR, no S pack etc. I'm not an XT, G6 driver. I like a sporty looking car, what can I say.

All in all, a very impressive vehicle. I love it.

[XtRmn8]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Cons:

My only one con is no sports model, no XR, no SR, no S pack etc. I'm not an XT, G6 driver. I like a sporty looking car, what can I say.

+1

The Limited Edition G6 might be good value but to me it looks like it is aimed at retirees. The wheels on it look horrible and that front end is a mess.

To me the previous Limited Edition G6 looked much better with nicer wheels and much nicer front end.