GT-F vs GTS LSA

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Generally as newer models are released the better the cars get and wtf is transient overboost and what does it have to do with the GTS outperforming and getting better reviews than the GTF?

And yes the GTS has better hardware than the FPV, bigger brakes, stronger driveline, better suspension etc etc but everyone on here already knows that. As for dyno kw numbers I wouldnt get too hung up on those, performance times are a better gauge of real world performance. And you do realise that the GTF is just an expensive falcon too yeah lmao

not as expensive a GTS *cough cough* commodore cant see the GTS holding it value as well as a limited realise GT-F like it or not The GT-F is an instant classic. Last of the GT's. well have lots of demand years to come

[Iggle Piggle]

One thing I will never understand is why some keep bringing up 'Mad' Max Rockatansky because:

(1) He was a fictional character;

(2) He drove a Ford as a 'company car', but his personal drive was a Holden Sandman; and

(3) HE WAS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER!!!!

Mind you, he was a fictional character with a bitchin' company car.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by wildrider

not as expensive a GTS *cough cough* commodore cant see the GTS holding it value as well as a limited realise GT-F like it or not The GT-F is an instant classic. Last of the GT's. well have lots of demand years to come

I think the VF GTS will hold its value well, at this stage it looks like it will be the best local made performance car ever.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

One thing I will never understand is why some keep bringing up 'Mad' Max Rockatansky because:

(1) He was a fictional character;

(2) He drove a Ford as a 'company car', but his personal drive was a Holden Sandman; and

(3) HE WAS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER!!!!

Mind you, he was a fictional character with a bitchin' company car.

I brought him up due to a comment about the GTS making 500kw with transient over boost. an stupid claim. so I figure while people are spining bullshit why not have fun. It must be the way to get 500kw from a stock GTS

[BHDOGS]

really i thought that was gtho since real world performance is what it was about a circuit destroying fastest car in the world road kings seems like a more fitting best local made performance car ever made instead of a barley good enough to beat a model older then itself not even close to real life in claimed power car but hey if thats your thing kudos to you i await the gts selling for half a million in 30 years

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Whats wrong with a pushrod engine?

I'm surprised the anti-pushrod argument still exists, particularly in the age of the Google search. Imagine peoples' faces when they discover that OHV actually came after OHC

At the end of the day, regardless of what someone may think about GM and their cars, it's hard to dislike their V8s. Monstrous displacement, small physical size, light, simple in operation, easy to extract power from, easy to maintain- GM didn't choose the design by accident. As a petrol head, regardless of which brand you prefer, it's hard to dislike them unless you're trying to (which is where the pushrod argument comes from I guess).

While I do think Ford have a better overall engine in the 5.0, it's not because there's anything wrong with GM's motor.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

I think the VF GTS will hold its value well, at this stage it looks like it will be the best local made performance car ever.

only to the HSV fan boys which clearly you are. don't kid yourself. I'm performance car fan but I get annoyed over hype such as this thing

why is it when someone states something about stock FPV GT's running low 12s you immediately go on to the defensive?? Fact is the GT-F and also the GT-R spec are capable of doing 12.18 seconds. I even posted a link last time ages ago when you where dribbling **** about the GTS that clearly showed an FPV Black edition that ran a 12.209 run at willowbank that had R spec wheels rest of the car was stock. that was it and yet you rubbished this claim straight away. you know why?? because you cant except the Fact that GT-F and R spec are very capable of running these times.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

I think the VF GTS will hold its value well, at this stage it looks like it will be the best local made performance car ever.

WHAT? Are you for real? Better then a series 2 vf GTS or the "GTF 351"

Of ALL the shedable cars in the last 20 years.....the 351 GTF will surely have that title hands down.
When was the last time people were willing to pay WAaY over the rrp of an Aussie car? Try never.

And the Holden lovers here should bugger off. No ones baggin on the vf GTS....if you want one go buy one....I heard they're real cheap now. The big problem is the munipulation,disrespect and bad form the journos have and continue to show to ford products!
If you can't sympathise with that....then like I said, bugger off!

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm surprised the anti-pushrod argument still exists, particularly in the age of the Google search. Imagine peoples' faces when they discover that OHV actually came after OHC

At the end of the day, regardless of what someone may think about GM and their cars, it's hard to dislike their V8s. Monstrous displacement, small physical size, light, simple in operation, easy to extract power from, easy to maintain- GM didn't choose the design by accident. As a petrol head, regardless of which brand you prefer, it's hard to dislike them unless you're trying to (which is where the pushrod argument comes from I guess).

While I do think Ford have a better overall engine in the 5.0, it's not because there's anything wrong with GM's motor.

Its more so the hype i'm sick of with the bloody GTS.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

WHAT? Are you for real? Better then a series 2 vf GTS or the "GTF 351"

Of ALL the shedable cars in the last 20 years.....the 351 GTF will surely have that title hands down.
When was the last time people were willing to pay WAaY over the rrp of an Aussie car? Try never.

And the Holden lovers here should bugger off. No ones baggin on the vf GTS....if you want one go buy one....I heard they're real cheap now. The big problem is the munipulation,disrespect and bad form the journos have and continue to show to ford products!
If you can't sympathise with that....then like I said, bugger off!

this is exactly right.... us Ford fans cop enough crap about the bloody GTS and here we have a bunch of Holden payed Jurnos.... I swear to god they are and they mock the last GT ever built. but no once you speak the truth about the GTS and the GT. the Holden Fan brigade spin into action with stupid claims

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm surprised the anti-pushrod argument still exists, particularly in the age of the Google search. Imagine peoples' faces when they discover that OHV actually came after OHC

At the end of the day, regardless of what someone may think about GM and their cars, it's hard to dislike their V8s. Monstrous displacement, small physical size, light, simple in operation, easy to extract power from, easy to maintain- GM didn't choose the design by accident. As a petrol head, regardless of which brand you prefer, it's hard to dislike them unless you're trying to (which is where the pushrod argument comes from I guess).

While I do think Ford have a better overall engine in the 5.0, it's not because there's anything wrong with GM's motor.

Yeah both the LSA and the Miami V8 are both good engines in my book. The extra 1.2L capacity of the LSA makes it a torque monster

[BHDOGS]

Dont you mean the holden hype in general the cars are always hyped and always fail to deliver never get close to real world claims but gets ignored ford always under delivers and people rag on it till the truth is revealed the gtf will be no different. until a decent driver gets there hands on it these reviews are just biased dribble like what i post all the time hell im surprised wheels haven't hired me for there unbiased ford review magazine its the same way they hired the rest of there journos and i cant drive for **** either id fit right in.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm surprised the anti-pushrod argument still exists, particularly in the age of the Google search. Imagine peoples' faces when they discover that OHV actually came after OHC

At the end of the day, regardless of what someone may think about GM and their cars, it's hard to dislike their V8s. Monstrous displacement, small physical size, light, simple in operation, easy to extract power from, easy to maintain- GM didn't choose the design by accident. As a petrol head, regardless of which brand you prefer, it's hard to dislike them unless you're trying to (which is where the pushrod argument comes from I guess).

While I do think Ford have a better overall engine in the 5.0, it's not because there's anything wrong with GM's motor.

It's not really an argument..it's fact. The whole world has left pushrods for dead. The way forward is small efficient FI engines. Not that long ago you GM guys were raging they didn't need FI to keep up with fords xr6t engine...and then the 5.0SC engine. Now the GTS is FI. Say no more.
And buy the way those who were talking about the GTS on the dyno....350 stock is very high......some don't make the 300 mark. Great engine that one. Maybe the sticky tyres n trick suspension are doing more then we think.

[MethodX]

Anti pushrod arguments now? gawd.
Guess all the classic fords are outdated rubbish now, they used pushrods.

Scratch the phase 3 then..... lol

the Corvette seems to holds its own against euro sports cars using an ohv engine.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Dont you mean the holden hype in general the cars are always hyped and always fail to deliver never get close to real world claims but gets ignored ford always under delivers and people rag on it till the truth is revealed the gtf will be no different. until a decent driver gets there hands on it these reviews are just biased dribble like what i post all the time hell im surprised wheels haven't hired me for there unbiased ford review magazine its the same way they hired the rest of there journos and i cant drive for **** either id fit right in.

well that's it hey. admittedly there are some Holdens I like but I honestly think the GTS has to take the cake for most overrated car ever produced. just like the claim of the VF SS being the worlds fastest ute is a load of crap. Holden themselves have a ute that would flog it and Ford have the XR6 turbo, the GS and GT that would more then likely flog both of the Holden utes and can actually car stuff.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Anti pushrod arguments now? gawd.
Guess all the classic fords are outdated rubbish now, they used pushrods.

Scratch the phase 3 then..... lol

the Corvette seems to holds its own against euro sports cars using an ohv engine.

phase 3 was in the pushrod era and still is a better car then the GTS value wise.

that's true about the Corvette but the GTS is no Corvette or Euro

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Anti pushrod arguments now? gawd.
Guess all the classic fords are outdated rubbish now, they used pushrods.

Scratch the phase 3 then..... lol

the Corvette seems to holds its own against euro sports cars using an ohv engine.

Give me a break.....yeah that means all old pushrods cars suck

Apparently a 430 kW vf GTS has only about 315rwkws.
I don't remember even a GT335 that went under that. So much for the most powerfull car in aus. But that's another story

And let's see how long GM uses pushrods engines for......if they're so good why are they using FI on them now.....why not just go to 8.0 litres?

Anyway...noone says they are crap engines....just outdated and not as efficient as smaller FI engines are.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by wildrider

well that's it hey. admittedly there are some Holdens I like but I honestly think the GTS has to take the cake for most overrated car ever produced. just like the claim of the VF SS being the worlds fastest ute is a load of crap. Holden themselves have a ute that would flog it and Ford have the XR6 turbo, the GS and GT that would more then likely flog both of the Holden utes and can actually car stuff.

Don't forget to add the world record nurburgring campaign they ran to that list. they have ZERO shame I tell you!

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not really an argument..it's fact. The whole world has left pushrods for dead. The way forward is small efficient FI engines. Not that long ago you GM guys were raging they didn't need FI to keep up with fords xr6t engine...and then the 5.0SC engine. Now the GTS is FI. Say no more.
And buy the way those who were talking about the GTS on the dyno....350 stock is very high......some don't make the 300 mark. Great engine that one. Maybe the sticky tyres n trick suspension are doing more then we think.

I would say the torque has alot to do with it its peformance times

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Give me a break.....yeah that means all old pushrods cars suck

Apparently a 430 kW vf GTS has only about 315rwkws.
I don't remember even a GT335 that went under that. So much for the most powerfull car in aus. But that's another story

And let's see how long GM uses pushrods engines for......if they're so good why are they using FI on them now.....why not just go to 8.0 litres?

Anyway...noone says they are crap engines....just outdated and not as efficient as smaller FI engines are.

A pushrod engine with well designed heads can be just as good as an ohc engine.
be cheaper to make, have a lower centre of gravity, torque down low, and be safer in a crash - no big heads to come cashing through into the passenger compartment.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Don't forget to add the world record nurburgring campaign they ran to that list. they have ZERO shame I tell you!

and remember a few years ago with the introduction of that horrible 3L V6 into the VE range?? they where claiming that you could drive up to 900km on a tank highway?? my old AU forte sedan could do that and it had a smaller fuel tank then it by 5 litres. I remember some journos saying that no Australian car could do that before. only to be hounded by owners of 6 cylinder Falcons pre BA stating that what I already found out for myself

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by MethodX

A pushrod engine with well designed heads can be just as good as an ohc engine.
be cheaper to make, have a lower centre of gravity, torque down low, and be safer in a crash - no big heads to come cashing through into the passenger compartment.

while yes they can be just as good but as we get into more euro compliant pollution crap its going to be cheaper for the smaller displacement engine to be built. problems with torque down low is just a case of adding a supercharger. long gone are the days of cheap fuel and no environmentally friendly ways. you have to change or fade away. just like our car industry unfortunately

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

I would say the torque has alot to do with it its peformance times

Yeah but I'd imagine that torque is far higher...due to FI. Didn't have 740ish nm before they bolted a SC on did it.

The torque of the NA v8 holdens can't match the far smaller 5.0 SC ford motor! In gear acceleration of the SC5.0 destroys the NA Holden equipped engines. But we all know that!

Oh and what about the tiny 4.0T fords. Imagine the domination an F6 would have, had it had been updated regularly the last ten years or so. And think of the massive fuel savings alone in a car with the same performance.

I'm really not convinced FI isn't the way ahead.......I need more convincing

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Of ALL the shedable cars in the last 20 years.....the 351 GTF will surely have that title hands down.
When was the last time people were willing to pay WAaY over the rrp of an Aussie car? Try never.

f!

The VF GTS LSA will likely be more collectible than the fg GT 351

As good as the fg is, it's just too similar to a regular GT. Ford just didn't do the car justice. No good pulling out the dark argent paint tin for a lick of paint over the wheels, a sticker pack and a ecu tickle and call it the most collectible falcon ever??

The VF GTS has the LSA, no other commodore/hsv has this. It's not gonna be cheap for someone to build up a replica. It's also the fastest Aussie made car, etc etc.

In my opinion, True collectible cars need something mechanical, some extra hardware over the normal run of the mill model. Even the t series had the stroker motor and other hardware changes.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

WHAT? Are you for real? Better then a series 2 vf GTS or the "GTF 351"

Of ALL the shedable cars in the last 20 years.....the 351 GTF will surely have that title hands down.
When was the last time people were willing to pay WAaY over the rrp of an Aussie car? Try never.

And the Holden lovers here should bugger off. No ones baggin on the vf GTS....if you want one go buy one....I heard they're real cheap now. The big problem is the munipulation,disrespect and bad form the journos have and continue to show to ford products!
If you can't sympathise with that....then like I said, bugger off!

Relax man I said it will hold its value well I didnt say it was going to worth a squillion dollars someday haha

No one is baggin on the VF GTS??? Come on really???

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

The VF GTS LSA will likely be more collectible than the fg GT 351

As good as the fg is, it's just too similar to a regular GT. Ford just didn't do the car justice. No good pulling out the dark argent paint tin for a lick of paint over the wheels, a sticker pack and a ecu tickle and call it the most collectible falcon ever??

The VF GTS has the LSA, no other commodore/hsv has this. It's not gonna be cheap for someone to build up a replica. It's also the fastest Aussie made car, etc etc.

In my opinion, True collectible cars need something mechanical, some extra hardware over the normal run of the mill model. Even the t series had the stroker motor and other hardware changes.

You could get the crate motor direct from the states bingo....your ss is now a GTS lsa.
And I think your short changing the GTF 351 by a fair margin.
And I don't see people prepared to pay way over the rrp for a GTS....rather they are cheap as chips now apparently.
The GTF351 has gone to some people far far above the rrp. And how much will the badged cars ford held back for sale by auction sell for? They could go for big numbers. Don't see people clambering for a GTS like that!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not really an argument..it's fact. The whole world has left pushrods for dead. The way forward is small efficient FI engines. Not that long ago you GM guys were raging they didn't need FI to keep up with fords xr6t engine...and then the 5.0SC engine. Now the GTS is FI. Say no more.
And buy the way those who were talking about the GTS on the dyno....350 stock is very high......some don't make the 300 mark. Great engine that one. Maybe the sticky tyres n trick suspension are doing more then we think.

The old pushrod argument, "OHV is from the 60s, thus it is bad". It's a silly thing to say considering DOHC actually pre-dates OHV. Like I said, I ultimately think Ford's Coyote is a better motor, but there's no denying GM makes a good V8. Chrysler is still making the pushrod Hemi and GM have just developed a direct injection pushrod engine which is in the new C7 Corvette, people seem to like it. The pushrod engine in the GTS does the job just fine, does it not?

And stop calling me a GM guy, it's lame. I've had that many FG Falcons, I couldn't buy yet another one last year when it was essentially the same thing I purchased again and again previously. Look at your own threads that you've started asking various questions about FG turbos, half the time it's been me who's helped you out. A bit of respect in return, eh?

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

The VF GTS LSA will likely be more collectible than the fg GT 351

As good as the fg is, it's just too similar to a regular GT. Ford just didn't do the car justice. No good pulling out the dark argent paint tin for a lick of paint over the wheels, a sticker pack and a ecu tickle and call it the most collectible falcon ever??

The VF GTS has the LSA, no other commodore/hsv has this. It's not gonna be cheap for someone to build up a replica. It's also the fastest Aussie made car, etc etc.

In my opinion, True collectible cars need something mechanical, some extra hardware over the normal run of the mill model. Even the t series had the stroker motor and other hardware changes.

Hit the nail on the head, those are the reasons I think the VF GTS will hold its value well

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

The old pushrod argument, "OHV is from the 60s, thus it is bad". It's a silly thing to say considering DOHC actually pre-dates OHV. Like I said, I ultimately think Ford's Coyote is a better motor, but there's no denying GM makes a good V8. Chrysler is still making the pushrod Hemi and GM have just developed a direct injection pushrod engine which is in the new C7 Corvette, people seem to like it. The pushrod engine in the GTS does the job just fine, does it not?

And stop calling me a GM guy, it's lame. I've had that many FG Falcons, I couldn't buy yet another one last year when it was essentially the same thing I purchased again and again previously. Look at your own threads that you've started asking various questions about FG turbos, half the time it's been me who's helped you out. A bit of respect in return, eh?

Help me? Last time you tried that you claimed to have a financial masters degree and a MBA with a complete understanding as to why holdens 500+million debt was more acceptable then fords of half the debt. You bagged me, talked yourself up then totally went quite when asked to explain the numbers to all us laymen. And you have a big HOLDEN GENF picture in your signature and you wonder why I think your a GM guy

But now I'm confused.....are you here in this thread supporting the pushrod LSA? Or are you denying that pushrod engines are being faded out......proven by the fact of countless far more economic and efficient motors around the world......including local engines here.
Are you denying this great SC LSA only dynos just over 300rwkws despite being badged the most powerfull car in Australia at 430.
Plenty of a GT 335 motors beating that.....and they're only 5.0.

So just to clarify on topic......GTF 351 has a more economical and efficient engine then the vf GTS! Unless I missed something!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Help me? Last time you tried that you claimed to have a financial masters degree and a MBA with a complete understanding as to why holdens 500+million debt was more acceptable then fords of half the debt. You bagged me, talked yourself up then totally went quite when asked to explain the numbers to all us laymen. And you have a big HOLDEN GENF picture in your signature and you wonder why I think your a GM guy

But now I'm confused.....are you here in this thread supporting the pushrod LSA? Or are you denying that pushrod engines are being faded out......proven by the fact of countless far more economic and efficient motors around the world......including local engines here.
Are you denying this great SC LSA only dynos just over 300rwkws despite being badged the most powerfull car in Australia at 430.
Plenty of a GT 335 motors beating that.....and they're only 5.0.

So just to clarify on topic......GTF 351 has a more economical and efficient engine then the vf GTS! Unless I missed something!

You made some pretty far-out claims in the other thread and I corrected you, what's the big deal? You can revisit it via PM if you like. And I also have a Ford logo as my DP if you didn't notice, to demonstrate I'm not one-sided, I appreciate both brands in this era of imports taking over. Perhaps you aren't aware, I have a VF AND an FG in the same driveway- explains both pics.

And no, pushrod engines aren't going away any time soon. The second largest automaker in the world is still very much committed to the OHV V8- and good on them. But again, why are we arguing about pushrods? It's such a lame thing to fight about.

And remember the GTS will lose more through its driveline, the figures are about right. Regarding fuel economy and efficiency, we're car enthusiasts, leave the economy runs to the Prius. At the end of the day (pushrod motor or not) the GTS is the quickest ever Aussie muscle car. Should it be compared to the GTF? I don't think so. But unfortunately all people want to see is HSV's best vs FPV's best- even if the GTF should really be compared to an R8.