The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

[EgoFG]

About 100 years ago, there was a segment on a current affairs show that reported on a proprietary method and Australian lab had come up with to blend eucalyptus oil with alcohol in a manner that could burn in an un-altered engine.
Personally I think the industry has gone the wrong way with Electric and hybrid engines, and perhaps in looking to marginalise ICE.
One of these would be a better starting point
1. Hybrid - Should work more like an interurban train, small battery set, engine only drives a generator, all electric drive. - the majority seem to use the petrol engine to drive the car along with electric motors.
2. Full electric - should have something like a methane fuel cell - works like a battery, but it consumes methane (PEMFC), uses a liquid fuel, so preserves current infrastructure.
3. Alcohol ICE fuel substitute for largely unaltered engines (preserves our history)




Imagine pulling up to a fuel station, and choosing alcohol, with or without eucalyptus

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

About 100 years ago, there was a segment on a current affairs show that reported on a proprietary method and Australian lab had come up with to blend eucalyptus oil with alcohol in a manner that could burn in an un-altered engine.
Personally I think the industry has gone the wrong way with Electric and hybrid engines, and perhaps in looking to marginalise ICE.
One of these would be a better starting point
1. Hybrid - Should work more like an interurban train, small battery set, engine only drives a generator, all electric drive. - the majority seem to use the petrol engine to drive the car along with electric motors.
2. Full electric - should have something like a methane fuel cell - works like a battery, but it consumes methane (PEMFC), uses a liquid fuel, so preserves current infrastructure.
3. Alcohol ICE fuel substitute for largely unaltered engines (preserves our history)




Imagine pulling up to a fuel station, and choosing alcohol, with or without eucalyptus

It would smell fantastic!!

Also be great when you have a cold....... perfect excuse to sniff the exhaust!!!

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by whynot

Disclosure, I am a sparkie by trade and I love all things electrical; electric motors, big batteries, electric vehicles, etc, etc.

It is very hard to forecast the future. Most "futurologists" more often get it wrong that right (see Club of Rome).

That said ... a few months ago, the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), which is an offical agency of the US government, released a forecast of oil production. While total kWh of energy produced by renewable resources (e.g. solar, wind) will continue to rapidly grow, the demand for energy will oil and gas consumption also continue to grow.



It seems then that petrol will be around for awhile yet.

A few other things to keep in mind ...

By 2050 the GTHO will be around 80 years old. That is vintage car age. Even a last run V8 Falcon will be pushing 35 years old. Enthusiasts will be driving their V8, the rest of today's kids will be playing with the BYOD while the EV drives itself to the destination.

Sure, a cool looking and loud V8 will attract some attention. Parents will point them out to excited kids. Photos will be taken. A bit like the attention a steam train gets.

Personally, I wouldn't fret about lack of petrol. There is enough around to see us out.

My personal belief is alot of these projections are trying to calm the Markets. Lots of $$$ to be lost into future Green alternatives!

I live in Newcastle, Coal port has been massive for the region, and political back pockets!!

5 maybe 10yrs ago, you would go to the beach and stop counting coal boats after 40.There were that many waiting to enter the port.

Today, i was lucky to count 6 and during the week less. Things are happening quicker than we think.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Today, i was lucky to count 6 and during the week less. Things are happening quicker than we think.

It isnt just a question of energy though. As the global population grows, you need more carbon. You can either keep harvesting it from the surface (which is demonstrably bad for the environment), or you can dig it up. We'll stop relying on fossil fuels when we stop growing the number of people.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

It isnt just a question of energy though. As the global population grows, you need more carbon. You can either keep harvesting it from the surface (which is demonstrably bad for the environment), or you can dig it up. We'll stop relying on fossil fuels when we stop growing the number of people.

Thats the elephant in the room with climate change, no one wants to talk about over population of the planet.

How about we just get rid of 4 billion humans?

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Thats the elephant in the room with climate change, no one wants to talk about over population of the planet.

How about we just get rid of 4 billion humans?

image

That's why Bill Gates and Co. released Covid

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ivorya

That's why Bill Gates and Co. released Covid

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Thats the elephant in the room with climate change, no one wants to talk about over population of the planet.

How about we just get rid of 4 billion humans?

The population grows quickly in the third world. In the first world, it largely stabilises. People have less kids as living standards improve.

Bill Gates is quite right when he argues that the best thing for the planet is to help Africa transition out of the third world as quick as possible.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

The population grows quickly in the third world. In the first world, it largely stabilises. People have less kids as living standards improve.

Bill Gates is quite right when he argues that the best thing for the planet is to help Africa transition out of the third world as quick as possible.

That's largely up to them to sort out themselves, I heard a good point recently in a discussion about various people - there's a reason the third world is the third world, low quality people.

[Crazy Dazz]

This entire debate is what happens when people get sucked in my the Gween Rhetoric.

Pay no attention to anything a Politician says. Their words are worthless.
Ignore all the token gestures. Yes they are a waste of money, but they reflect no fundamental change.
All we need to worry about are ACTUAL major changes, and currently there are none.
In fact Australia recently increased it's Strategic Reserve, and is actively working to INCREASE Fuel Security.

Natural Gas and LPG are obvious alternatives to OIL (whilst still being fossil fuels)
In terms of renewables there is Ethanol, Butanol, Amonia, and Bio Gas.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

This entire debate is what happens when people get sucked in my the Gween Rhetoric.

Pay no attention to anything a Politician says. Their words are worthless.
Ignore all the token gestures. Yes they are a waste of money, but they reflect no fundamental change.
All we need to worry about are ACTUAL major changes, and currently there are none.
In fact Australia recently increased it's Strategic Reserve, and is actively working to INCREASE Fuel Security.

Natural Gas and LPG are obvious alternatives to OIL (whilst still being fossil fuels)
In terms of renewables there is Ethanol, Butanol, Amonia, and Bio Gas.

It was actually quite careless of the government to allow refineries to close down and expose Australia,
that the government starts making moves a few months out from an election is hardly reassuring.
There only needs to be a stoppage of shipping of refined products for a few weeks and we’d be in trouble…

A final thought,
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the change agent for electrification was not greenies but the increasing cost of fuel and less reliable deliveries….

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's largely up to them to sort out themselves

The longer it takes, the higher the global population becomes. Its in all our interests to help them along.

[CyberWasp]

There is also the option for cars to run on compressed air.
Compressors can easily run off solar, so fuel is free minus the cost of the equipment.
Only for city use though.

[Franco Cozzo]

Check out this homejob ****box called a 'Blade Electron' - sounds like the marketing team decided to try target the niche market of Java programmers:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...12247821/?Cr=0

What an absolute home job on a Hyundai Getz, look how crappy that conversion is of the EV gear with the parts shop job from Middys for the cable glands/conduit and JAS Oceania for the warning light and voltage gauge. As well as the exposed terminals on its battery bank.

I reckon most of the people with build threads here on AFF could do a better EV conversion than that mob who turned out that abortion.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...ric-getz-7592/



The one in the clip above must be an updated variation, the one in the carsales ad is significantly worse under the bonnet and in the interior.

This comment is interesting:

riumplus
7 months ago (edited)

I've got one of the first ones that was sold to QLD, a Mk V that was partially upgraded to a Mk R. From memory I think they only made 52-ish Blade Electrons of the different models.

Unfortunately my experience with it over the past decade has been that something big likes to go wrong with it once a year or so. Being a pioneer means you give up some reliability as things just plain haven't been around long enough to get proper long-term real-world daily testing done on them.

Eg the Azure Dynamics motor controller that turned out to be fundamentally flawed in its design and kept breaking & needing replacing, until Azure Dynamics went bankrupt over this happening to so many of their customers, and I had to get it replaced with a different model motor controller.

This has meant that actually getting it serviced has proven difficult over the years, and the poor thing spends a lot of its life broken down (like it has been for most of 2021 so far). Groundbreaking vehicle, but sadly suffering badly from early adopter pains.

The problem with these dodgy conversions is they're not pioneered by automotive people, Blade Electron was pioneered by a teacher, a noble effort but you can tell from the look of that conversion on that car for sale on carsales.

How long before we get someone from AFF doing an EV conversion on a project car with that new Ford crate motor and a stacked Tesla battery bank?

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A final thought,
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the change agent for electrification was not greenies but the increasing cost of fuel and less reliable deliveries….

Unleaded petrol came about, not because we finally decided that vaporising a toxic heavy metal and then inhaling it was bad for our health, but because it was incompatible with Catalytic Convertors

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

There is also the option for cars to run on compressed air.
Compressors can easily run off solar, so fuel is free minus the cost of the equipment.
Only for city use though.

image

Why can't they make them look like normal cars? Every time one of these people has a new idea thats going to revolutionise the world like they claim, they make the cars look like they come out the Fisher Price kids toys in the K-Mart Christmas catalogue or one of those kiddy rides you see in shopping centers.

The front of that thing looks like a illustration of a vagina canal but missing the uterus and fallopian tubes but the headlight assemblies are the ovaries.

Like when Google threw its hat in the ring for making a car:



Wouldn't even be welcome as a Mardi Gras float.

[kevino]

I see a cost effective Uber Eats/ Door Dash/ Menu Log delivery vehicle !!!!

thanks Damo.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Unleaded petrol came about, not because we finally decided that vaporising a toxic heavy metal and then inhaling it was bad for our health, but because it was incompatible with Catalytic Convertors

In 1970 the US EPA identified lead in gasoline as an unacceptable toxin and proceeded to draft regulations to remove it from gasoline after 1975….
Manufacturers then began developing emissions systems that could take advantage of unleaded fuels, the original two way cat converter was a huge step forward.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...nvironment.php

The Clean Air Act (the Act) seeks to reduce air pollution in the United States. Specifically, the Act (first passed in 1970) and its amendments require engines and fuels to produce less air pollution, among other requirements, to reduce air pollution from gasoline use.
*To meet the air pollution reduction goals of the Act, the U.S
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) took several actions:
Required emissions control devices and cleaner burning engines
Emissions control devices on passenger vehicles were required beginning in 1976. In the 1990s, the EPA established emissions standards for other types of vehicles and for engines used in gasoline-burning non-road equipment
*Removed leaded gasoline for use in vehicles
Lead in gasoline proved to be a public health concern. The move away from leaded gasoline began in 1976 when catalytic converters were installed in new vehicles to reduce the emissions of toxic air pollutants. Vehicles equipped with a catalytic converter cannot operate on leaded gasoline because the presence of lead in the fuel damages the catalytic converter. Leaded gasoline for use in vehicles was completely phased out of the U.S. fuel system by 1996. Leaded aviation gasoline is allowed for use in piston-engine aircraft. The U.S. government is supporting research on alternative, lead-free fuels for those types of aircraft.
*Required the use of reformulated gasoline
Beginning in 1995, the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 required cleaner burning reformulated gasoline to reduce air pollution in metropolitan areas that had significant ground-level ozone pollution.
*Required the supply of ultra-low sulfur gasoline
As of January 1, 2017, refiners are required to supply gasoline with 97% less sulfur content than the gasoline made in 2004. Gasoline with lower sulfur content reduces emissions from old and new vehicles and is necessary for advanced vehicle emission control devices to work properly.
Reduced the risk of gasoline leaks
Gasoline leaks happen at gas stations every day. As people fill up their gas tanks, gasoline drips from the nozzle onto the ground and vapors leak from the open gas tank into the air. Gasoline leaks can also happen in pipelines or in underground storage tanks where they can't be seen. Beginning in 1990, all underground storage tanks had to be replaced by tanks with double lining. The double lining provides an additional safeguard for preventing leaks.

Methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE), one of the chemicals added to gasoline to help it burn cleaner, is toxic, and a number of states started banning the use of MTBE in gasoline in the late 1990s. By 2007, the U.S. refining industry had voluntarily stopped using MTBE when making reformulated gasoline for sale in the United States. MTBE was replaced with ethanol, which is not toxic.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How long before we get someone from AFF doing an EV conversion on a project car with that new Ford crate motor and a stacked Tesla battery bank?

I just need the funds.

And Choose the most controversial vehicle possible to chop up

[DTFRMONT]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How long before we get someone from AFF doing an EV conversion on a project car with that new Ford crate motor and a stacked Tesla battery bank?

Check out Rich Rebuilds on YouTube.

He's done the opposite, an LS swap on a Model S, and is putting a Cummins Diesel in a Model 3 .

Also doing an electric swap on a Corvette.

He's actually scathing on Tesla for their refusal to sell parts to him to repair damaged cars, and for their general lack of support.

https://www.youtube.com/c/RichRebuilds/videos

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Elks

I just need the funds.

And Choose the most controversial vehicle possible to chop up

Start a gofundme - maybe we can raise enough funds to purchase and destroy an XY GTHO.

There's nothing more that I'd love to see than one of those with an LS under the hood or an EV conversion

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

The longer it takes, the higher the global population becomes. Its in all our interests to help them along.

Sterilization program

[CyberWasp]

I am still waiting for Ryobi to make a 18V Brushless car that I can buy at Bunnings, that can use all my batteries to power it.
Might need a lot of batteries to plug into it, but I bet it could be done.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I am still waiting for Ryobi to make a 18V Brushless car that I can buy at Bunnings, that can use all my batteries to power it.
Might need a lot of batteries to plug into it, but I bet it could be done.

Tell ya what, I'm amazed at all the battery powered tools available these days, 12 years ago when I bought my first set there was no such variety, it was just things like drills, impact guns and CCFL work lights (still prefer these over LED), now there's stereos, lawn mowers, whipper snippers and all sorts of things.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I am still waiting for Ryobi to make a 18V Brushless car that I can buy at Bunnings, that can use all my batteries to power it.
Might need a lot of batteries to plug into it, but I bet it could be done.

If only Ryobi's batteries werent so crap. I dont know anyone with Ryobi gear that hasnt had at least one battery that got a dead cell and refuses to charge anymore.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by b0son

The longer it takes, the higher the global population becomes. Its in all our interests to help them along.

Zimbabwe was helped along look at it now..

seriously..

[Elks]

Originally Posted by b0son

The population grows quickly in the third world. In the first world, it largely stabilises. People have less kids as living standards improve.

Bill Gates is quite right when he argues that the best thing for the planet is to help Africa transition out of the third world as quick as possible.

There there is lot of evidence that the greatest influence upon birth rates is in fact wealth. As couples believe that their children will survive as in the first world are more likely to have one two or three children. Whereas in the third world where death rates are high so are birth rates.

Two things affect the global population number. One is the rate at which children are born. Two is the rate at which they die as either children or adults.

As modern medicine is seeing life expectancy over the last hundred years ago from 45 to 85 years and more it is anticipated that global population growth will in fact come as much from people not dying as distinct from people being born.


There is a concept called "peak child' which is when the most new children are born in the year. It is believed that we have actually passed that point and that was in fact in 2019. However, the population will continue to grow to I believe the estimate is 11 billion based on the lowering death rates. Most of the population growth of the additional 3 billion people will occur in Africa.

So short of war or pandemics were already on a trajectory to a global population of 11 billion.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Elks

There there is lot of evidence that the greatest influence upon birth rates is in fact wealth. As couples believe that their children will survive as in the first world are more likely to have one two or three children. Whereas in the third world where death rates are high so are birth rates.

Two things affect the global population number. One is the rate at which children are born. Two is the rate at which they die as either children or adults.

As modern medicine is seeing life expectancy over the last hundred years ago from 45 to 85 years and more it is anticipated that global population growth will in fact come as much from people not dying as distinct from people being born.


There is a concept called "peak child' which is when the most new children are born in the year. It is believed that we have actually passed that point and that was in fact in 2019. However, the population will continue to grow to I believe the estimate is 11 billion based on the lowering death rates. Most of the population growth of the additional 3 billion people will occur in Africa.

So short of war or pandemics were already on a trajectory to a global population of 11 billion.

look at countries like Vietnam whos population was diminished by War, now their population increases by about a million each year nearing 100 million despite a two child Policy.

In more recent wars shows Syria has the highest population growth
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...s%20on%20Earth.

[DJR-351]

Plant more trees......

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010...-gas-cars.html

Wood gas vehicles: firewood in the fuel tank

[hayseed]

During WW2 my grandfather had 2 similar setups..
One on his Car, Another on His Tractor..