Covid 19 -

[russellw]

Don't make the mistake of thinking this is a localised issue. Here are how other countries are dealign with it:

UK: It is mandatory for care home workers in England to have vaccinations and

English nightclubs and other venues with large crowds will require patrons to present proof of full vaccination from the end of September.


Canada: Canada requires all federal public servants and many other workers (including transportation) to be vaccinated against COVID-19. The vaccine mandate will also include air, train and cruise ship travellers. BC is mandating COVID-19 vaccines for all staff working in long-term care homes and assisted living facilities with other provinces expected to follow suit. From Sept. 13, vaccines are required for patrons of non-essential businesses such as restaurants and movie theatres


Fiji: As of Aug. 15 unvaccinated public servants in Fiji would be forced to go on leave and any public servants who remain unvaccinated by November will be dismissed.


France: All healthcare and care home workers, home aids and urgent care technicians must have had at least their first shot of a COVID-19 vaccine by Sept. 15 and the government has mandated a health pass in many social venues.


Greece: vaccinations are mandatory for nursing home staff and healthcare workers from September. As part of new measures, only vaccinated customers are allowed in bars, cinemas, theatres and other closed spaces.


Indonesia: inoculations were made mandatory in February, with fines of up to 5 million rupiah ($357) for non-compliance.


Italy: A decree approved by the Italian government in March mandates that health workers, including pharmacists, get vaccinated with suspension without pay for non compliance. From Oct 15th it obligatory for all workers either to show proof of vaccination, a negative test or recent recovery from infection.


Saudi Arabia: In May, they mandated that all public and private sector workers wishing to attend a workplace get vaccinated.
Vaccination will also be required to enter any government, private, or education establishments and to use public transport as of Aug. 1.
Saudi citizens will need two doses before they can travel outside the kingdom from Aug. 9.


Switzerland: Swiss people will need to show a COVID-status certificate to enter bars, restaurants and fitness centres from Sept. 13


Micronesia and Poland have also mandated vaccination for all citizens.


The USA is the usual mish mash of differing rules but Federal public serpents must either be vaccinated or face regular testing, mask mandates and travel restrictions.

President Joe Biden on Sept. 10 announced policies requiring all federal employees to get COVID-19 vaccinations and pushing large employers to have their workers inoculated or tested weekly. The new measures would apply to about two-thirds of all U.S. employees, those who work for businesses with more than 100 workers.

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I'm jumping out for a bit before this gets out of control. This has the potential to go south pretty quickly.

I understand people's views and choices, even though I may not agree with them.

glad you do, most on this one way thread dont!

[LG17]

If you don't have the right qualifications for a certain job you want then you go and get them.
If you don't have the right vaccinations for a certain job you want then you go and get them.
You make the choice.
Behaving like a numbskull, creating havoc and taking on the police, well that's your choice too.

As Russell said, your choice providing you accept the consequences.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Stambolova

So let me ask this question.


Why is it so verboten to counter the official narrative and subsequent actions by the government?

There is a difference between questioning the actions of our elected representatives and spruiking looney fringe conspiracy and anti-vax theories and if you don't know the difference, you'll find out soon enough.

Likewise, fact based debate about vaccinations is fine but if you want to counter peer-reviewed research by qualified teams of people then you'd better have more than an opinion.

Or put another way, on this privately owned and funded forum, I determine what is and isn't acceptable but not without making it clear first before removing those who won't listen.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Stambolova

So let me ask this question.


Why is it so verboten to counter the official narrative and subsequent actions by the government?

The govt is imposing rules which are totally opposite to the basic human rights in all western democracies.Everyone is allowed to refuse to have to have anything injected into their bodies if they don’t want to.But very soon now unvaccinated people will not be allowed outside of their own house

Originally Posted by russellw

There is a difference between questioning the actions of our elected representatives and spruiking looney fringe conspiracy and anti-vax theories and if you don't know the difference, you'll find out soon enough.

Here's the kicker though, everything happening today was considered looney fringe conspiracy crap not 18 months ago.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by HIPO

[/COLOR]

glad you do, most on this one way thread dont!

If you have a problem with how we (or I) moderate this forum then please feel free to say so and I'll spare you from any future distress over the matter.

That's another choice you are free to make that has consequences.

[Cav]

Well after my second AZ jab I noticed a marked reduction in the wrinkles on my face.

But again maybe I wuz wrong and it was the cake that did this.

[Tassie f100]

You wii have a lot less wrinkles if you get outside that in one sitting,will be able to use your gut as a musical drum

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Everyday another employer comes out and says NO jab NO Job.So how long before there won’t be a job that doesn’t require employees to be jabbed,then how long before shops start enforcing the same rule

Businesses are generally entitled to set whatever conditions of entry they want. Patrons agree to enter on those conditions.

“No thongs, no singlets” is a common rule for many pubs, while night clubs refuse entry to those who are too intoxicated.

No jab... No entry, is no different.

[T3rminator]

Haven't had much chance to follow the screens today until now. Oh my, what a mess! Doesn't look like a CFMEU issue any more. Journalists being attacked, sprayed with urine, pelted with cans, good luck trying to convince 6m other Victorians that this is about freedom.

This reeks a bit of what happened in the US not long ago. Is there actually someone representing these "protestors", whats the demand? Now would be a good time for some of our leaders at the federal level to make a statement.

Only 44 arrested today........pretty freaken soft for a so called police state. If they don't snub this out fast it could really spiral.

Meanwhile....

VIDEO: Master Builders support Government shutdown of construction industry

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...tdown/13550982

"The Master Builders of Victoria say they understand the Government's decision to shut the construction industry down for two weeks, and support the vaccine mandate for construction workers."

[Ben73]

I wouldn't have thought construction was a high risk job when it comes to covid. Working outside often, working in small groups.


Politicians should have mandatory vaccines. Work inside in large groups, travel the country, do PR stuff with other politicians or normal citizens.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Businesses are generally entitled to set whatever conditions of entry they want. Patrons agree to enter on those conditions.

“No thongs, no singlets” is a common rule for many pubs, while night clubs refuse entry to those who are too intoxicated.

No jab... No entry, is no different.

Bit different a dress code to forcing people to have vaccinations which may or may not have long term issues

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

You wii have a lot less wrinkles if you get outside that in one sitting,will be able to use your gut as a musical drum

Bastard!

[tweeked]

I believe the vaccines available are the most important development and will save more lives than anything else developed in the last 20 years. I turned up in the first week I was eligible...so with that out of the way.

Mandating it where there is not the added risk factor of severely at risk people, like in healthcare, that is where the mandate should stop. We are already learning that all of the vaccines have relatively low efficacy (when compared to vaccines for other diseases) at stopping infection. The "do it for those around you" mantra is looking like a bad ad.

You vaccinate for yourself. Personal responsibility. If people want to take on the disease themselves let them. Losing a job because you don't want to get vaccinated in construction should not happen. You cant legislate silly out of people, but the road we are going down is becoming more destabilising than the disease.

IF the vaccine completely prevented infection there would be some merit. But it goes nowhere near that, so stop making rules as if it does.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by HIPO

[/COLOR]

glad you do, most on this one way thread dont!

Me and my cat do!....and he watches me post!.......



Regardez vous Guillaume

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I wouldn't have thought construction was a high risk job when it comes to covid. Working outside often, working in small groups.
.

guess you don,t get out to sites much. if safety is required , safety is a goal, if the job is to be pushed through, safety is ignored.

[T3rminator]

Quote removed

Hello sunshine. Lay off the smokes. If you go back through my posts you'll see I'm not a great supporter of forced vaccination, except in healthcare.

Oh, are these the list of demands of the blue collars? Looks bigger than just a protest against mandatory vaccination. Looks more like an attempt to overthrow a democratically elected government, and to remove legislative powers that allows health officials to manage a pandemic.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Hello sunshine. Lay off the smokes. If you go back through my posts you'll see I'm not a great supporter of forced vaccination, except in healthcare.

Oh, are these the list of demands of the blue collars? Looks bigger than just a protest against mandatory vaccination. Looks more like an attempt to overthrow a democratically elected government, and to remove legislative powers that allows health officials to manage a pandemic

Got to agree with you there, most unskilled workers or labourers haven't got a clue, even on big construction works they have no idea what they are building, just that it's a place they go to everyday, they work and get paid on Friday, then usually hit the pub, or the married fellows go home.

These poor fellows are just happy to have a job and an income, the rest is just out of their scope of things, these "blue collar workers" look like they have an agenda to me, and its very well organised if not chaotic, but someone behind the scenes is doing it, not the union rank and file....


Regards William

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Got to agree with you there, most unskilled workers or labourers haven't got a clue, even on big construction works they have no idea what they are building, just that it's a place they go to everyday, they work and get paid on Friday, then usually hit the pub, or the married fellows go home.

These poor fellows are just happy to have a job and an income, the rest is just out of their scope of things, these "blue collar workers" look like they have an agenda to me, and its very well organised if not chaotic, but someone behind the scenes is doing it, not the union rank and file....


Regards William

I have a couple of mates in the industry. They are hard working, can earn a mint, and are generally clever enough to know right from wrong. BOTH are PRO VAX. Their dads are in the industry, all hard workers and have all the injuries to show for it. I'm not having a crack at the actual workers, I just think that there is something more sinister driving this and taking advantage of MY state.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I'm not having a crack at the actual workers, I just think that there is something more sinister driving this and taking advantage of MY state.

I know your not, and its more than sinister, it's bloody Evil, this is not normal by any stretch of the imagination, this is how wars start, sadly it reminds me of pre WW2 Germany

I don't like this one bit, it's not un Australian, it's unnatural and a very dangerous place for the democratic countries to be in, everyone talks about China, but its Russia that will benefit most from this, I think it smells like something Russia could orchestrate!
These are riots not protests, organised, not just thrown together by a few of "the boys"!


Regards William

[oldel]

Originally Posted by tweeked

IF the vaccine completely prevented infection there would be some merit. But it goes nowhere near that, so stop making rules as if it does.

The vaccine means 90% chance you won't land in hospital on a ventilator. That's the point. No one wants that, no one wants some unvaxxed dummy there taking up a bed.

Covid is going to spread, hospitals can't take the expected unvaxxed load.

No one wants the ignorant nutters taking up resources so we or people we know can't get a bed due to a workplace place accident, a RTA, a sudden serious health problem.
Based on what is happening OS we know that's going to be the case, overloaded hospitals and these unvaxxed by choice tools preventing the rest of us getting care.

Absolutely no issue with people looking for alternative prevention now as long as they stick to the alternative treatments when covid infected and they can't breathe. If you want to avoid hospitals when dying from a disease you chose not to get vaccinated against, fine. Most people are after all getting vaxxed so they can avoid hospitals too! Same result, but the vaxxed are trying not to die, I don't care if others choose to.

[Jack91]

It's hard to find words to describe John setka that will fly on this forum.
Regardless of their (dumb) demands, I understand and agree with the members' anger and turning on the almighty. These blokes pay thousands per year and support the CFMEU through thick and thin, then they get the cold shoulder when they need him the most.
For him to come out and say it was mainly non members, simply not true.
If you don't regularly work on site with these sort of blokes, the job site and the other blokes they work with is their whole life. It's not uncommon for a kid to do an apprenticeship start to sign off on the one job. This is why there's a big reaction, and likely why a poor bloke called it quits this morning and jumped off the edge. If you're not in the game, it's hard to explain.
People throwing around the 'well we've been shut for xxxx time', yep, but you also had warning, and didn't get spring with a "get vaxxed in a week or no job" when there was limited vaccine. The flow on effect and liquidated damages, late fees and so forth is not even on the same field as Jane Smith's coffee shop. $10k/day is about the norm for holding up a handover or C of O, and it's fully on the contractor, even if it's caused by covid restrictions.
Don't forget a big portion are also casual, so no leave, IF they have incolink, it'll be jammed right up and they won't get it for 2 weeks aswell. Because we've been untouched for so long, who knows when disaster payments might come through aswell.
People also forget construction has been at 25% for a while, so a lot of blokes were already pretty hard up.
I would like to think this is the motivation for a good percentage of the protesters, not the crazy demands or antivax ideas.
I don't agree with their ideas,demands or the way they've gone about it though, along with a big portion of others in the industry. I'm also only half in construction and can still operate, this is more playing devil's advocate to give a bit of an idea why this is blowing up.

Whoever gave the final ok to shut down construction has some serious balls.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

im done.

That's the first thing you've said today that I agree with. You have been removed from this community.

Originally Posted by Ben73

I wouldn't have thought construction was a high risk job when it comes to covid. Working outside often, working in small groups.

In theory it should be and I suspect it probably would be if the COVID safe plans they have theoretically put in place were followed but with 37% of our current active cases along with the outbreaks in Mitchell Shire and Geelong traced to construction sites, they obviously aren't following them or they aren't safe.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Jack91

It's hard to find words to describe John setka that will fly on this forum.
Regardless of their (dumb) demands, I understand and agree with the members' anger and turning on the almighty. These blokes pay thousands per year and support the CFMEU through thick and thin, then they get the cold shoulder when they need him the most.

While I've never agreed with the way the unions finance themselves, it's been that way for a long time and I frankly can't see where they were given the cold shoulder. To date, no union has managed to (or been stupid enough to) take on the mandatory jabs rule in any other sector and there are some fairly powerful unions there too like the AEU and ANMF.

Originally Posted by Jack91

For him to come out and say it was mainly non members, simply not true.

It sounded like he was trying to defend his members from the negative public opinion by trying to say that those acting violently were not members but 'other' rabid morons.

Originally Posted by Jack91

People throwing around the 'well we've been shut for xxxx time', yep, but you also had warning, and didn't get spring with a "get vaxxed in a week or no job" when there was limited vaccine. The flow on effect and liquidated damages, late fees and so forth is not even on the same field as Jane Smith's coffee shop. $10k/day is about the norm for holding up a handover or C of O, and it's fully on the contractor, even if it's caused by covid restrictions.

Most people who ended up out of a job because of restrictions had next to no warning so that argument doesn't fly and the 'get vaxxed' message for construction came with access to plenty of priority vaccinations given that only proof of the first was required.

Originally Posted by Jack91

Don't forget a big portion are also casual, so no leave, IF they have incolink, it'll be jammed right up and they won't get it for 2 weeks as well. Because we've been untouched for so long, who knows when disaster payments might come through as well.
People also forget construction has been at 25% for a while, so a lot of blokes were already pretty hard up.
I would like to think this is the motivation for a good percentage of the protesters, not the crazy demands or antivax ideas.

From those I know who are receiving them, the State government income support payments are being made on time and they continue for those who are already on them for as long as they are impacted. Even it that weren't the case, it's not a good enough excuse for the protests we've seen as tens of thousands of other people are in the same boat and I don't see most of them out on the streets behaving badly.

Clearly, 99% of the ~240k construction industry workers in Victoria are not part of these mobs that we see on our TV's and as such deserve our support but sadly, the much publicised non compliance and even more publicised demonstrations have lost them them the battle for public support and even though that isn't fair, it's the way things are with the media these days.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Quote removed

image

I think that laundry list covers the wish list of a lot of 'groups' but clearly the good old anarchists get a look in as do the anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists who believe that COVID is a global plan to infringe their rights, the complete looney fringe who think that Ivermectin is a cure or preventative for COVID as well as the actual construction industry workers.

I'd love to know what percentage of the protesters fall into each of those categories but we never will.

[five 7]

Originally Posted by russellw

Don't make the mistake of thinking this is a localised issue. Here are how other countries are dealing with it:


English nightclubs and other venues with large crowds will require patrons to present proof of full vaccination from the end of September.

Might want to remove this from your list Russell.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58535258

[Syndrome]

Get ready for day 3

https://www.facebook.com/therealrukshan

[cs123]

On a slightly different subject, this show is worth a look.

Those affected by lockdown and WFH might get a shock at the long term impacts of not getting enough physical activity

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/how-to-live-younger

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Jack91

Don't forget a big portion are also casual, so no leave, IF they have incolink, it'll be jammed right up and they won't get it for 2 weeks as well. Because we've been untouched for so long, who knows when disaster payments might come through as well.

I can tell you from my own personal experience that applying and receiving the Covid disaster payment has been extremely fast.

I am self employed, and contract solely to a company that has had to close down during this current lock down being in the non-essential retail sector.
I lost 40 hours per week.

I had never claimed any form of social security, hardship payment or the dole in my working life of 44 years, nor had I ever had to deal with Centrelink, until now.

Not knowing what to expect, I needed to contact Centrelink to get a CRN (Customer Reference Number), before I could put my online application in through my MyGov account.

Thinking I would be on the phone for hours and on hold especially during this Pandemic and with more than the normal number of claims being made, I grabbed a coffee before calling.

I was pleasantly impressed with Centrelink... My call was answered and I was speaking to a staff member within 15 seconds!
Quicker and more efficient than ringing my bank or a large Telco.

Later in the day, I had to ring them back again due to a technical issue I had linking Centrelink to MyGov... Again the phone was answered by support staff in a flash.

Within 3 hours after I put my application through... I could not believe that my first disaster payment was already in my bank account!

Each week of the lockdown has been the same... Like clockwork, the money is in my account every Friday.

Kudos to the Government in how they are quickly handling these disaster payments to those that are affected!