Australia housing bubble

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The bubble has made selling agents arrogant...

I recently showed strong interest in 2 properties.

The first was due to go to auction. I put an offer in writing after the first open house. The offer also had very very generous settlement provisions in favour of the vendors worth perhaps several thousand dollars to them.

Never heard anything back other that a thanks for the offer.

It was sold 3 weeks later and prior to auction for $15k above my offer. What a joke...

I was tempted to slip a letter into their mailbox showing my offer and the fact had I been contacted for negotiation I would have gone well above and beyond their eventual selling price.

Another property was investigated, several phone calls, emails, reports requested, final list of questions by email that were to be replied prior to my offer and nothing.

Now listed as under offer. Must be great to be an agent now treating buyers with such scorn..

Sitting back now. Will see how things pan out post Pandemic. Perhaps once borders open and 'cashed up' buyers realise they can blow their money in Bali or on a cruise then it will take some heat out of the market and provide buyers more options.

1. If you put the offer down in writing, doesn't the agent have to legally show it to the seller and give a formal reply?

2. Arrogant, yep. Ungrateful, yep. Our good neighbours opposite us passed away recently. It became a deceased estate and the children of the owners decided it was easier to sell. Dad gets on pretty well with them, so they asked my dad if he could recommend anyone that would be keen to buy. They didn't want to go through auction. Dad put them onto an agent that he met whilst nosing at other auctions. The house sold in a couple of weeks privately. You reckon Dad got a thank you from the agent? NUP....not a peep! One of the agent's colleague came around a few weeks later to gloat about how well they had done out of that deal. Dad let his colleague know in no uncertain terms what he thought. 2 days later, he gets a gift in the letter box, 2 kit kats, nicely wrapped.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The bubble has made selling agents arrogant...

I recently showed strong interest in 2 properties.

The first was due to go to auction. I put an offer in writing after the first open house. The offer also had very very generous settlement provisions in favour of the vendors worth perhaps several thousand dollars to them.

Never heard anything back other that a thanks for the offer.

It was sold 3 weeks later and prior to auction for $15k above my offer. What a joke...

I was tempted to slip a letter into their mailbox showing my offer and the fact had I been contacted for negotiation I would have gone well above and beyond their eventual selling price.

Another property was investigated, several phone calls, emails, reports requested, final list of questions by email that were to be replied prior to my offer and nothing.

Now listed as under offer. Must be great to be an agent now treating buyers with such scorn..

Sitting back now. Will see how things pan out post Pandemic. Perhaps once borders open and 'cashed up' buyers realise they can blow their money in Bali or on a cruise then it will take some heat out of the market and provide buyers more options.

You seem to me to be a nice, decent , honest person, this is from reading your posts on all threads not just this one.

Like me you like to think other folk are like you, that's natural when you have a conscience, I know without knowing you that you would see a person drop a wallet or purse or cash and stop them to give it back!

Am I correct?

This recent incident you experienced is yet another side of human nature, good versus evil, care or don't care, sadly you will never beat these folk at their own game, the fact you offered X amount of dollars then expected to negotiate was nieve on your part, that was the seller or reactors intention.

When it sold for $15k more than you wanted to pay but say you would of paid that for said property would not of happened?....your offer was used to show another buyer that they had to aim higher, or beat your offer, and other offers too, the house was most likely sold before it was advertised for sale!

It was just the price they needed to charge the new buyer, you and other honest and decent folk determined that price, you were never a contender, not for a millisecond, you and the others were used, it happens and will continue to happen..you have my sympathy.....


Cheers Billy

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

We will never know... had he called me to negotiate like he should I may have had some idea.



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Perhaps they offered the same or more and the elderly people were happy to move on.

You said in your second example that you we're waiting on answers to questions before making an offer, is it possible that things are moving so fast at the moment and at such a good markup that people just want a quick sale to whoever has the money, is willing to pay what they will accept and aren't looking for answers beforehand.

Im not saying its right, but it is a heated market, snooze you lose.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

1. If you put the offer down in writing, doesn't the agent have to legally show it to the seller and give a formal reply?

2. Arrogant, yep. Ungrateful, yep. Our good neighbours opposite us passed away recently. It became a deceased estate and the children of the owners decided it was easier to sell. Dad gets on pretty well with them, so they asked my dad if he could recommend anyone that would be keen to buy. They didn't want to go through auction. Dad put them onto an agent that he met whilst nosing at other auctions. The house sold in a couple of weeks privately. You reckon Dad got a thank you from the agent? NUP....not a peep! One of the agent's colleague came around a few weeks later to gloat about how well they had done out of that deal. Dad let his colleague know in no uncertain terms what he thought. 2 days later, he gets a gift in the letter box, 2 kit kats, nicely wrapped.

I just answered Yellow_Festiva in the post before this one, to elaborate a little, as I tend to do, sometimes when you quote for work for the Government you have to go pick up the working or quoting drawings, then you have a date to supply your offer, it was in an office building in Sydney near Central, there was a tender box, even had a padlock Houdini couldn't open.

This is the 80's and it was a massive public utility, we were a small fabrication shop in Lansvale, Cabramatta.
We did small stuff, big companies would tender their work out to various companies, normal practice, still is, we had to be approved to be able to tender, a hard list to get on, we tendered for 3 years and overquoted, not really we were having our throats cut.

Our quotes were fair, but another company under quoted us every time.
I decided to go low ball on one job, not much, but $28k the price of material, guess what it went to the other company $500 less, of course they had an insider, guaranteed to be payed a percentage of works completed, no profit no percentage?....lol...

Got a visit one day, it was the purchasing officer for this public utility, he introduced himself, I took him to the Stardust Hotel for a long lunch, him in suit me in work overalls.
He was pretty moggoted when we left, and we got on great, he said he knew if he accepted our quote of $28k it would bust the company, he said you did a smart move there, ya got big balls, I thanked him for noticing, and he laughed, loud.

He brought a big pile of drawings from his car boot, and asked what tonne rate I used when quoting, I told him, he said spot on, I said then why no work doing these quotes for 3 years, he says to me that the company he gave the work to was his wife's families and they got divorced!...we both laughed.

He put over $100k of work on the bed of the guillotine ( yes I cracked a few bottles of DA ) and said your in Billy, it was my best mates family company, he asked if I was being looked after alright, I said "fair" he said ask em for a pay rise, he said you don't have to quote now, just do the work, deliver it, then take the invoice to the city office and draw a cheque!

That's the truth, that was 1983, my boss and best mate was killed in a car accident in 1993, his wife asked me to run the business, I said no thanks, but I will buy all the equipment?....she refused, I gave about 6 contracts back, maybe $2 mill per annum, by then we had lots of Government contracts plus ABB, but I had enough, all hard yakka, quoting, ordering, organising and some fabrication, my body was a wreck, I walked away, couldn't do it without my best mate Ed, but its the same as buying houses, there is always under the table deals, no difference in small business.

And every Christmas we never forgot to take a bottle of Black Label and a Christmas card with $500 cash, for presents for the kids, lol...to each of 6 purchasing officers.
I hate people who use others to make themselves rich, or just greedy pr.cks.
But the housing market is ripe for the picking, and I feel sorry for anyone trying to get into the market of owning a house not dealing in property like it's a share market, it not, it's a basic human right to have shelter, wether owned or rented.

Hope I haven't bored you!

Cheers Billy

[Bossxr8]

Relying on real estate agents to be honest

They are used car salesmen in more expensive suits.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Relying on real estate agents to be honest

They are used car salesmen in more expensive suits.

Agreed though mind you those high end premium auto brands are very very good slippery snakes with the Real estate ones.
All snakes go longer with the budget levels

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

1. If you put the offer down in writing, doesn't the agent have to legally show it to the seller and give a formal reply?

Probably, but who will enforce or prove it?

I got a reply to my email offer just saying thanks, will pass it on and be in touch.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

You seem to me to be a nice, decent , honest person, this is from reading your posts on all threads not just this one.

Like me you like to think other folk are like you, that's natural when you have a conscience, I know without knowing you that you would see a person drop a wallet or purse or cash and stop them to give it back!

Am I correct?

Ok... hmmm recently someone handed in a wallet to my desk assuming it was dropped by a resident. Had $800 cash.

Called the cops, they called the owner and he came that evening to collect. The look of shock when he opened it turned to confusion as to why I had made a point of tracking him down to return it. He offered me a 50, I said if you want to give me something then just give me the smallest note he had so I was happy with the 20.

He did his part in rewarding me much as I did my part in returning money that wasn't mine.

As for my demeanour - I try my best not to ever make fun of or jeer others at their expense. It achieves nothing and you don't know what is going on behind the scenes. I'm far from the religious type but I believe in the do as to others as you would want them do to you mantra.

Originally Posted by slowsnake

This recent incident you experienced is yet another side of human nature, good versus evil, care or don't care, sadly you will never beat these folk at their own game, the fact you offered X amount of dollars then expected to negotiate was nieve on your part, that was the seller or reactors intention.

Don't think it naïve to assume a person do their job. Really don't care, just not happy with buck passing. It's the easy way out when the reality is that I did my part as an interested buyer and the rest was up to the seller.

Had the market been the other way the agent would have been out of a job.

Originally Posted by slowsnake

When it sold for $15k more than you wanted to pay but say you would of paid that for said property would not of happened?....your offer was used to show another buyer that they had to aim higher, or beat your offer, and other offers too, the house was most likely sold before it was advertised for sale!

Yeah, not fussed. Really it's old news. Good luck to the buyer and the seller. Just gave my story as a means to continue the thread. Wasn't really expecting it to be psychoanalysed and victim blamed for other people's incompetence.

Originally Posted by slowsnake

It was just the price they needed to charge the new buyer, you and other honest and decent folk determined that price, you were never a contender, not for a millisecond, you and the others were used, it happens and will continue to happen..you have my sympathy.....

Cheers Billy

Yes, absolutely it was probably used to push up the next offer. Do I really care? No. You should feel sorry for the vendor that got duded out of the best price for their apparent golden years, and more so for the sales agent that perhaps stood to misadvise the reality of the market and may have possibly duded the people he was meant to represent for his own back pocket.

Compared to most I'm one of the luckiest bastards around - and I can say that with confidence because I've also been at the total opposite end of the spectrum and got through.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Perhaps they offered the same or more and the elderly people were happy to move on.

You said in your second example that you we're waiting on answers to questions before making an offer, is it possible that things are moving so fast at the moment and at such a good markup that people just want a quick sale to whoever has the money, is willing to pay what they will accept and aren't looking for answers beforehand.

Im not saying its right, but it is a heated market, snooze you lose.

No, second example was on the market for months and had a few price adjustments in that time.

The property had several 'issues' that needed clarification and I wasn't satisfied in providing an offer till those questions were clarified in writing.

Good luck to the person that may be happy to make an offer without doing their DD. I'm not one of them and if a selling agent refuses to reply to standard questions about a property then that is answer enough for me.

[Mulva]

So am about to make an offer - subject to building inspection of course.

Any other tips? I've already sold and have finance sorted, so I can offer quick settlement as not subject to sale or subject to finance. Anything else I can do to be pick of the offers should I be line-ball with other offers?

Any other tips/suggestions/advice?

Have only ever owned one home before and that one I purchased land then built a house, so buying someone else's house is all new to me

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Mulva

So am about to make an offer - subject to building inspection of course.

Any other tips? I've already sold and have finance sorted, so I can offer quick settlement as not subject to sale or subject to finance. Anything else I can do to be pick of the offers should I be line-ball with other offers?

Any other tips/suggestions/advice?

Have only ever owned one home before and that one I purchased land then built a house, so buying someone else's house is all new to me

Don't be so vague about your offer conditions.

Subject to your satisfaction of the building inspection. If someone wants to be clever with your wording you are simply stating that you will buy after the inspection.

Subject to the finance approval from the new lender.

Sure you have finance sorted (does that mean you are fully self funded or you have approval from a lender), but what if you agree on a price well below the lenders valuation? (assuming you are borrowing against the new purchase). They may not bridge the gap and either you foot the difference or pull out.

Careful with building inspections - they are 3 pages of reports and 12 pages of legalese advising you to only use it as a rough indication and to get individual expert inspections for all the specific aspects of the property.

Good luck

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Mulva

So am about to make an offer - subject to building inspection of course.

Any other tips? I've already sold and have finance sorted, so I can offer quick settlement as not subject to sale or subject to finance. Anything else I can do to be pick of the offers should I be line-ball with other offers?

Any other tips/suggestions/advice?

Have only ever owned one home before and that one I purchased land then built a house, so buying someone else's house is all new to me

Not everyone is going to agree with what I'm about to say, some people enjoy the art of bartering, which is fine. But IMHO, if you really really really want something, make your best offer the first offer. That is what I did when I got my apartment, and have never looked back. After settlement the agent told me people were low balling, until mine came along, they had an offer for $5k under what I offered......the seller wanted just that little bit more. Not long after, same configurations on lower floors started to fetch much higher. Obviously do your research on price in the area, so you are not blindly offering something ridiculously over.

[Mulva]

Thanks guys, sage advice and very much appreciated

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Relying on real estate agents to be honest
.

Funny how there is always a news segment on the week end TV news about real estate, more or less spruiking, now it has never been a better time to buy or sell, etc. etc. blah blah
is it a news item or an add?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Not everyone is going to agree with what I'm about to say, some people enjoy the art of bartering, which is fine. But IMHO, if you really really really want something, make your best offer the first offer. That is what I did when I got my apartment, and have never looked back. After settlement the agent told me people were low balling, until mine came along, they had an offer for $5k under what I offered......the seller wanted just that little bit more. Not long after, same configurations on lower floors started to fetch much higher. Obviously do your research on price in the area, so you are not blindly offering something ridiculously over.

Very similar to the Jenmann model. He had a chain of agencies that had that method for offers but I think in the long run it turned buyers away as the agencies are no longer around.

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[4stanger]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Agreed though mind you those high end premium auto brands are very very good slippery snakes with the Real estate ones.
All snakes go longer with the budget levels

I know of a few car sales people (used and new) who have now moved into real estate sales

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Don't be so vague about your offer conditions.



Subject to your satisfaction of the building inspection. If someone wants to be clever with your wording you are simply stating that you will buy after the inspection.



Subject to the finance approval from the new lender.



Sure you have finance sorted (does that mean you are fully self funded or you have approval from a lender), but what if you agree on a price well below the lenders valuation? (assuming you are borrowing against the new purchase). They may not bridge the gap and either you foot the difference or pull out.



Careful with building inspections - they are 3 pages of reports and 12 pages of legalese advising you to only use it as a rough indication and to get individual expert inspections for all the specific aspects of the property.



Good luck

"but what if you agree on a price well ABOVE the lenders valuation? (assuming you are borrowing against the new purchase). They may not bridge the gap and either you foot the difference or pull out."

Should have said above.

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[Mulva]

Will be borrowing but nowhere near 80%, so if there is a shortfall I should be ok.

The offer I received for my old place was way above what I would have taken, way above valuation of 3 different agents, and was a record for a 3-bed 2-bath for that suburb, so I was worried that sale would fall over as bank would not value that high...but they are so flat out and market so hot that it passed bank valuation as buyer's bank just did desktop valuation (apparently very common right now in Radelaide due to amount of properties changing hands).

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Very similar to the Jenmann model. He had a chain of agencies that had that method for offers but I think in the long run it turned buyers away as the agencies are no longer around.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

OMG....there's a name I haven't seen or heard in AGESSSSS. Neil Jenman, don't sign a thing

I've always used that principle for things that I really really want. Like when I saw a T3 TE50 in a car yard. Walked in, offered, paid deposit, walked out. Wasn't going to have some dude take it from me for offering $1k more

For things that I'm not really fussed on, then I'll go the bartering route.

[Mulva]

Not going to get it - advertised for $650-$715k, offered $737500, am told still more than $50k short. I could up my offer to more than $800k but not willing to as don't feel this one is worth that much.

I'd love to buy, knock down and build, but build times are stupid getting stupider

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Not going to get it - advertised for $650-$715k, offered $737500, am told still more than $50k short. I could up my offer to more than $800k but not willing to as don't feel this one is worth that much.

I'd love to buy, knock down and build, but build times are stupid getting stupider

Good. You are thinking with your head, not your heart.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Not going to get it - advertised for $650-$715k, offered $737500, am told still more than $50k short. I could up my offer to more than $800k but not willing to as don't feel this one is worth that much.

I'd love to buy, knock down and build, but build times are stupid getting stupider

Not only that but materials are through the roof, hold tight if you can IMO.

[Mulva]

Was only a few years back that $800+k in metro Adelaide got you a place near the sea or close to CBD or somewhere nice like Stoneyfell...not anymore.

Seems mid $800k though is where the demand drops off - everything advertised for low $600k sells for low to mid $700k; advertised for low $700k sells for low $800k; but advertised for mid $800k sits on market then sells for asking

[Polyal]

yeap, while I want to get into the market off all the times the next 12 months doesnt seem like its worth the gamble..if things done settle once the covid gates open then it never will and I will accept any price rise from now to then.

[Citroënbender]

Prices won’t drop for so long as we allow what is essentially unfettered foreign purchasing of property. It’s really just a cousin to mining; we’re selling the ground out from under our feet…

There are six newly finished properties, never occupied, within 150m of me - the cheapest would have sold for $1.4M. If people (or a certain foreign government, by proxy) can afford this indulgence, they will continue to mop up where local buyers are either slower moving or think prices will drop.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Prices won’t drop for so long as we allow what is essentially unfettered foreign purchasing of property. It’s really just a cousin to mining; we’re selling the ground out from under our feet…

There are six newly finished properties, never occupied, within 150m of me - the cheapest would have sold for $1.4M. If people (or a certain foreign government, by proxy) can afford this indulgence, they will continue to mop up where local buyers are either slower moving or think prices will drop.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...tors/100259470

Notably missing from this list is the UK. Once the FTA kicks in, which includes more favourable skills exchange terms, will we start to see more migration and more house price movement? Hmmmmm

[shedcoupe]

It’s a damp dream - unlimited credit and unlimited access.
What could possibly go wrong ?

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...tors/100259470

Notably missing from this list is the UK. Once the FTA kicks in, which includes more favourable skills exchange terms, will we start to see more migration and more house price movement? Hmmmmm

It’s unlikely to move downward. I don’t know the statistical profile of UK citizens who migrate here permanently, but my overwhelming exposure has been to those of Subcontinental ancestry. Getting out of cities for more space, safer streets in Australia.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Not going to get it - advertised for $650-$715k, offered $737500, am told still more than $50k short. I could up my offer to more than $800k but not willing to as don't feel this one is worth that much.

I'd love to buy, knock down and build, but build times are stupid getting stupider

What the agent is doing is against the law. If you are not interested in going ahead then report the mongrel...

https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/a...uoting-reforms

I don't think you are in NSW but I'm sure 'underquoting' is against the law in all states.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

What the agent is doing is against the law. If you are not interested in going ahead then report the mongrel...

https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/a...uoting-reforms

I don't think you are in NSW but I'm sure 'underquoting' is against the law in all states.

Up to 20% is normal. Fair trading won’t touch it until it is 30%.

And it’s 30% from the upper number

We learnt that the hard way. Embraced it and could afford to buy what we wanted. Interestingly enough the place we bought was advertised with a 50k range. Ended up going bam in the middle. We showed up to the auction with the extra 20%