All things Solar (merged threads)

[DJR MAN]

Hi all, I read here every now and then, and a lot of very good info shared here.

I'm new to the solar family. I have a 5kw system - 5020w of Trina panels and a Samil Solar river 5200 dual inverter.

Due to not enough north facing roof , I have some on the west roof too - 16 panels on north and 10 panels on west.

I'm yet to see 5kw produced. About 4 is the highest. I do get a good spread of time of generation per day about 14 hrs of generation, probably due to having a spread of panels on north and west roofs.

Do I fit more panels (plenty of space on the west roof) , like 6 kw worth of panels to get the 5kw from the inverter or this is normal as the panels are spread over 2 roofs.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by DJR MAN

Hi all, I read here every now and then, and a lot of very good info shared here.

I'm new to the solar family. I have a 5kw system - 5020w of Trina panels and a Samil Solar river 5200 dual inverter.

Due to not enough north facing roof , I have some on the west roof too - 16 panels on north and 10 panels on west.

I'm yet to see 5kw produced. About 4 is the highest. I do get a good spread of time of generation per day about 14 hrs of generation, probably due to having a spread of panels on north and west roofs.

Do I fit more panels (plenty of space on the west roof) , like 6 kw worth of panels to get the 5kw from the inverter or this is normal as the panels are spread over 2 roofs.

DJR, I'm no expert on solar, I researched and signed up for solar before I came across this forum. (wish I had've come here first!)

My system has 2.3kW of panels facing NNW with a 2kW inverter - only a few times have I seen the inverter crack 1.9kW of output. You've got 3kW of panels facing the right way for peak generation, the others on the west side don't "see" the sun at it's peak the same time as the north facing ones do - hence why you don't see anywhere near close to 5kW generation.

I would strongly suggest that you don't fork out your hard earned for any more panels on the west side. I don't know what state you're in, but in QLD you can't add any more panels to your system without penalties.

Sit back and enjoy the system you've got DJR - it's very rewarding!

On a happier note: I got the first non-power bill for summer. I used to hate summer, but not today. $565 credit for the quarter - Niiiice!

Cheers!

[supershifty]

DJR, forgot to add this:

You've got a 5kW inverter and 5kW of panels. Adding extra panels may exceed your inverters rating - on paper that is. Wouldn't matter if the additional panels are mounted under your house, it's illegal in all states to add additional panels that will exceed that your inverter can handle.

In my case the inverter can take up to 2.5kW of panels (I have 2.28kW), but will only give up a max of 2kW throughput. You would have to consider what the max your inverter can handle before thinking about adding more panels. Probably not worth the expense mate, unless you want to fork out for another inverter?

Cheers!

Edit: Just done a quick google on the inverter you stated in your original post. Max input is 5.2kW - you can add one more panel before having to upgrade your inverter!

[DJR MAN]

Hi Supershifty,

I wondering with having the dual inverter, if it could potentially go to 5kw on each bank. I thought I read or heard somewhere some time ago that you could have say 7kw, 8 kw,10 kw or more worth of panels, but the inverter will only deliver what the inverter is rated to.
As I'm seeing 4kw max, I was wondering if I went overboard with panels could I bump up to the 5 kw the inverter could produce.

At the end of the day, I probably wont do anything about it. This system should be more than enough for our needs. I haven't got a bill yet so naturally I'm keen to see what the rebate will amount to.

Thats interesting that they will slug you for getting more panels, especially after the incentives for people to go solar and save the earth etc....

I'm in Brisbane too, are you with Origin or AGL?

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by DJR MAN

I wondering with having the dual inverter, if it could potentially go to 5kw on each bank. I thought I read or heard somewhere some time ago that you could have say 7kw, 8 kw,10 kw or more worth of panels, but the inverter will only deliver what the inverter is rated to.
As I'm seeing 4kw max, I was wondering if I went overboard with panels could I bump up to the 5 kw the inverter could produce.

At the end of the day, I probably wont do anything about it. This system should be more than enough for our needs. I haven't got a bill yet so naturally I'm keen to see what the rebate will amount to.

Thats interesting that they will slug you for getting more panels, especially after the incentives for people to go solar and save the earth etc....

I'm in Brisbane too, are you with Origin or AGL?

A dual or MPPT inverter allows you to add a different type of string (array) of panels at a later date that may not be compatible with your current string or in your case, have split strings facing different directions. Chances are your inverter will already hooked up "dually".

Your inverter can only handle 5.2kW worth of panels - ie 27x190w or 26x200w panels. You have 26 panels, so you can only add one more panel to your string before having to go to a larger inverter. I think I get your logic when you say you're only getting 4kW peak generation and wanting to add extra panels to bring it up to 5kW, fact is that by law that the potential max output of your string/s may not exceed your inverters rating.

When I mentioned about penalties in my previous post. I signed up when the rebates for feed in tariff were 44c, my system is alike yours where the string/inverter are pretty well matched, for me to add panels means I have to upgrade my inverter, upgrading my inverter means I lose the 44c and drop down to whatever the paltry sum is now. It's a complicated area to explain in a post as there is so many variables that apply to different circumstances. Here's a link to a faq that applies to QLDers that will help explain what I'm babbling about: http://www.cleanenergy.qld.gov.au/demand-side/323.htm

I'm with AGL, recently switched from Origin as they were offering a better deal if I combined my gas/elec bills, in hindsight I was no better off. See my rant here: http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...&postcount=939

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by supershifty

Poppa, just out of curiosity - where did you get the figures for optimal orientation of the solar panels? I'm not questioning them, just wanted to compare my setup with what is the ideal. There's no way known I'm gonna move the buggers!

If you've got the figures at hand for Brisbane, then post away mate! Mine are facing NNW at roughly 30 degrees.

Cheers!

sorry mate been away chasing fires......just got back

I cant remember the exact place I got that bit of info from but it was off the inter web .....info is everywhere and if you are real lucky it may actually be correct sometimes

this is a good site to chase down a bit of info.....
http://www.yourhome.gov.au/technical/fs67.html

interesting that it states the orientation should be your latitude plus 15 degrees.......thats a very easy way to figure out the angle

on another note I have just clocked up the 150th install that I have been involved in

keep the info flowing fellers.....we all win in the end!

[poppa smurf]

a "new" energy comparison site has just got off the ground in South Australia that may be of some benefit to some

the site is found here

w.energymadeeasy.gov.au/understand-your-bill-and-contract/comparing-energy-offers

I havent checked the site out yet but according to Leon Byner this morning savings of 50% are not uncommon

yes I know, I thought the same but the lady who stated this saving had done all her homework and checked and rechecked her figures

anyhoo! would be worth a captain hook!.......may just save someone a quid

if you do have a squizz would you report your findings and thoughts (good or bad) back in here please

[prydey]

de regulation kicks in today for south australia, so there is probably a few good deals floating around if you search. more competition generally = lower prices.

[poppa smurf]

well hopefully anyway........I listened a bit to what Leon had to say but had to do a couple of deliveries and didnt hear all of it

possibly interesting times ahead...........or maybe not!!!

[comagutsa]

ok guys i have been on the phone with the bloke who installed my solar and he is saying my system sounds like its running fine
ok its a 3kw system SMA SB 3000TL-20 with 15x 200w suntech panels STP200S/24AD 24V monocrystalline
north facing roof with no shade
ok i was told on here it was under performing as people with the same size system are making more that mine. mine its only making 16 units a day. the best i have seen is 16.7
since beginning September it was making 15 units and has only risen to 16 in Jan ...is this normal as its only risen 1 unit though there is more sun now ???

this is a good day


and this is a day where its a bit cloudy


why does it go from 2.136kw on a normal sunny day (its like this for heaps
and on a cloudy day it jumps up to 2.367kw and on other days with cloud when the sun comes out it can get to 2.4kw ??

was wondering if these settings are correct

and the couple missing are
Min on time 120min (1-1440mins)
opperation condition MPP
System-Find device OFF

any ideas as to all this is right or is this the max it can do

[comagutsa]

is there any way i can what each panel is making ..to see if they are making different out puts??

[poppa smurf]

you should see quite a bit of 18 kilowatts with the occasional 20 plus with a 3 kilowatt system.....but a number of factors come into play

north facing is ideal however what is the angle of your panels?

a cloudy day will often produce more power than a bright sunny day.....I dont really know why,more reflected light maybe?.....where is professor julias sumner miller when you need him and his famous words "why is it so?"

I cant give an accurate answer as to whether your system is setup correctly by those figures, thats one for the more technically minded I'm afraid, hopefully one will be along shortly to help you

I dont reckon that is the max it is capable of.....I think it is holding out on you somewhere

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

is there any way i can what each panel is making ..to see if they are making different out puts??

only if you isolate that panel and place a volt/watt meter on it.....then test each in turn...

however touch the panels and you will void your warranty.....I wouldnt recommend it

[prydey]

seems to drop off pretty quick in the arvo. by 5pm its down to under 1kwh already. i realise wa doesn't have daylight saving but on a nice sunny day here, mine will still be producing above 1kwh and close to 2kwh well after 5pm. admittedly mine is 3.8kw of panels so not comparing apples with apples.

it doesn't seem massively down but it does seem down. my 3.8kw of panels have seen peak outputs of 3.6kwh in the middle of the day. (who knows what it reads when i'm not looking at it, thats just the highest figure i've seen).

[Winter XR8]

Im in Mandurah WA and i average about 20kwh a day on a 3kw system. Pity i only receive 8.4c per kw back.

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by Winter XR8

Im in Mandurah WA and i average about 20kwh a day on a 3kw system. Pity i only receive 8.4c per kw back.

yeah i hear you on the 8.4c bloody crap

what panels size and how many etc and inverter do you have

[comagutsa]

oh and whats your max kw you get during the day

[69XWGT]

We have a 6.9 kw system with 30 panels on a Nth facing roof at 27 degrees.

Our quarterly bill was around 450 to 500 dollars.

With the dry weather in SE QLD for half the year we will make around $3500. The year before we got just over $3000.
Thats a turn around of about 5 grand each year.
Our system will pay for itself in less than 4 years

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

is there any way i can what each panel is making ..to see if they are making different out puts??

In my opinion, the system is under performing.
Especially if there is no shade.

It's almost like a couple of panels haven't been plugged in.
Do you know what configuration the solar array is wired in?

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

In my opinion, the system is under performing.
Especially if there is no shade.

It's almost like a couple of panels haven't been plugged in.
Do you know what configuration the solar array is wired in?

2 lines of panels with 7 and 8 in a each row ..they are 200w suntech panels

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

2 lines of panels with 7 and 8 in a each row ..they are 200w suntech panels

Yes but how are they connected?

For 15 200w Suntech's to be on an SMA3000TL, which will be the single MPPT version (3000TL-20), you would have to connect the panels in three equal lots of 5 Panels.

This would then require string isolation fuses on the roof, as over 2 strings will typically need that for reverse current diode protection.

If the panels are connected in un-even strings to a single MPPT inverter, then the shortest string will drag the longer string down to its level.

Akin to a charged and flat battery equalizing.

[SPArKy_Dave]

Take a closer look at the panel wiring on the roof.

How many individual cables go into the junction box/rooftop isolator from the panels?

You should be able to determine that, by feeling where they go into the conduit, and/or cable gland.

[comagutsa]

righto cheers mate but i wouldnt have a clue what they did
but i will have to wait till i get back home to have a look as i flew back up to work yesterday ..
but will be climbing into the roof and having a look

[Winter XR8]

Delta Solaria 3.0 inverter and 12 x 250w Hareon panels. Max production throughout the day that I have seen is 2890w/h. Hope you can sort yours out mate. We might only get 8.4c per kw/h back but every bit helps.

[poppa smurf]

just one thing to add to sparkys advice (which is very good and gratefully accepted) is that if you do see something wrong don't go changing anything

we've had a couple of instances here where minor changes were made in simple wiring placement and this was used as a reason to get out of the warranty

may be worthwhile to get a sparky who has a bit to do with solar to take a few readings to give a definitive answer

[Stagg]

Woah, this thread is still going!!

Been very grim as of late for Solar here in VIC, very very quiet for the last month..

[poppa smurf]

G'dat Stagg......good to see you back......I don't reckon this thread will die anytime soon

there's a lot of folks out there who are sick and tired of paying high power bills and can see solar as a way to ease the burden a bit

hopefully this thread is a way of getting some good info out there so as to make an "informed" choice of what to do

[Stagg]

I'm talking with our BDM next week and looking at a group buy for a plethora of different sizes for Solar PV for us VIC folk

i.e. 5% off every system for 5 orders, 15% off for 10 orders etc but will get something set in stone next week!!

[comagutsa]

welll i spoke the the installer again today
and he is telling me that my system is performing like it should be and me getting max 16odd units a day is normal
i did ask him how he set it up and he said it was connected up in 5 panel lots (i fly home today so i will check it later)
he doesnt believe people are getting 18 to 20 units a day out of 3kw system, just keeps saying they must have better panels etc
he keeps going on about what the average system will do in a year blah blah
i dont know what to do next

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

Akin to a charged and flat battery equalizing.

hey Sparky ..what did yo umean by this