Covid 19 -

Originally Posted by Itsme

Leesa, it will be a sad day indeed when a hospital turns away any patient needing help.
End of story.

It's not really end of story, we're right at the precipice where we can change the outcome if we can steer the boat down the right path.

Hospitals and staff aren't an unlimited resource. In the worst version of events overseas, blunt war-style triaging will be done based on peoples' life expectancy/age/etc.
Treat the healthy 50 year old or the drug-addicted 25 year old? Treat the stroke victim or the 30 year old unvaccinated covid case?

That's what is probably coming for our hospital system. That's what the unvaxxers will do to our loved ones in this country, someone else's life will be exchanged for their insistence on their right to not vaccinate.

That's not even touching on the amount of healthcare workers overseas who have decided to leave the industry because it's taken too much from their mental health.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Hospitals stopped elective surgery two weeks ago in case of COVID Armageddon.
People are now suffering while waiting for procedures.

You are talking about the public hospital system yeah?

IIRC if you slam the cash on the counter of a private hospital you can get serviced anytime?

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Fear not. If it gets a bit out of hand, we can rely on our murican friends to save us...


Conservative host Candace Owens calls for US to invade Australia to free people from ‘tyranny’

https://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...0945d2aa7284cc

...you know they'd invade Vienna right?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by leesa

It's not really end of story, we're right at the precipice where we can change the outcome if we can steer the boat down the right path.

Hospitals and staff aren't an unlimited resource. In the worst version of events overseas, blunt war-style triaging will be done based on peoples' life expectancy/age/etc.
Treat the healthy 50 year old or the drug-addicted 25 year old? Treat the stroke victim or the 30 year old unvaccinated covid case?

That's what is probably coming for our hospital system. That's what the unvaxxers will do to our loved ones in this country, someone else's life will be exchanged for their insistence on their right to not vaccinate.

That's not even touching on the amount of healthcare workers overseas who have decided to leave the industry because it's taken too much from their mental health.

Leesa, I have sat in outpatient, casualty departments quite a few times and watched people go in who I thought looked ok to me who arrived after me, who am I to judge the triage team and doctors who assess patients on arrival as I'm quite sure they know who is priority when treatment is warranted.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

...you know they'd invade Vienna right?

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Once that started no journalist is just going to walk away, no matter what side of the fence they’re portraying.

Someone unknown to you abuses you as you walk past, do you just ignore it or go and see what’s going on?..............

Agree the pair weren't totally innocent as perhaps first portrayed in the article initially, but also notice how other patrons had asked them to "leave". MSM journalists have also been verbally and physically attacked throughout their coverage of covid protests. Anyways, this will unfortunately continue to fester. So called "freedom fighters" will fight people who are trying to enjoy their freedoms.

I'd still buy that bloke a beer, for having the balls to have a crack when the "body guard" was twice his size and one mean tough looking fella!!

[Cav]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

https://youtu.be/WvUqzjIKuKI

Balance is needed….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could watch videos like this all day.

Originally Posted by Itsme

Leesa, I have sat in outpatient, casualty departments quite a few times and watched people go in who I thought looked ok to me who arrived after me, who am I to judge the triage team and doctors who assess patients on arrival as I'm quite sure they know who is priority when treatment is warranted.

I think there might be some misinterpretation of what I'm saying.
It won't be a case of "you just have to sit and wait a bit longer", it'll be a case of "we can't help you, there's no bed for you" where you then just go home where you might die before anything becomes available.

The British Medical Association has also issued an ethics guidance document on 1 April stating “health professionals may be obliged to withdraw treatment from some patients to enable treatment of other patients with a higher survival probability.” In some cases, it says, this could mean taking away treatment for someone who is stable or even improving, in favour of another patient with a more positive prognosis.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...lives-and-dies

“How bad the triage will be depends enormously on the behavior of ordinary people now,” Anderson said. “The only way to solve this is through massive social collaboration.” https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covi...italy-new-york

A guy in america just died recently from a gallstone. He couldn't get a bed because the hospital was full of unvaccinated covid patients. Exhausted hospital resources doesn't just mean you have to wait longer, it means people die from treatable conditions.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/p...21-8?r=US&IR=T

Here's one about a dialysis patient who died because there weren't enough nurses to run the dialysis machine, they were all looking after covid patients.
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021...l-under-siege/

Heart attack, no bed because full of covid patients.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/13/u...age/index.html

That's what exhausted hospitals look like. Hopefully enough of the country ends up vaccinated so as to avoid that becoming a reality here. We shouldn't be losing people from treatable gallstones because someone else is taking up a bed from not being vaccinated.

[Trevor 57]

200 cases here now, bloody hell

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

200 cases here now, bloody hell

If WA opens its borders Trev, I mean ever not at Christmas or New Year, then it will decimate Perth being the major entry point to WA, our hospitals cannot cope now, nevermind a covid invasion, the Premier things because they got through the AFL final scot free, that they can handle anyone from over east visiting, no checks and balances, wrong, we have ambulances ramped up the driveways for 8 hrs at a stretch, paramedics keeping folk alive, glad I won't be here to see it, or experience it, WA residents are in for a monumental shock?

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by leesa

It's not really end of story, we're right at the precipice where we can change the outcome if we can steer the boat down the right path.

Hospitals and staff aren't an unlimited resource. In the worst version of events overseas, blunt war-style triaging will be done based on peoples' life expectancy/age/etc.
Treat the healthy 50 year old or the drug-addicted 25 year old? Treat the stroke victim or the 30 year old unvaccinated covid case?

That's what is probably coming for our hospital system. That's what the unvaxxers will do to our loved ones in this country, someone else's life will be exchanged for their insistence on their right to not vaccinate.

That's not even touching on the amount of healthcare workers overseas who have decided to leave the industry because it's taken too much from their mental health.

And when you run out of the old or decrepit, you've covered drug addicts so how will you assess a murderer getting treatment over a non murderer or just a plain old villain?
It will come down to that using your system Leesa!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by leesa

A guy in america just died recently from a gallstone. He couldn't get a bed because the hospital was full of unvaccinated covid patients. Exhausted hospital resources doesn't just mean you have to wait longer, it means people die from treatable conditions.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/p...21-8?r=US&IR=T

Here's one about a dialysis patient who died because there weren't enough nurses to run the dialysis machine, they were all looking after covid patients.
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021...l-under-siege/

Heart attack, no bed because full of covid patients.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/13/u...age/index.html

Gosh, and all this time I thought that Texas, Alaska and Alabama we're in 'Murrica!.... we were talking about the Oz health system weren't we?

Could we have some Australian examples please? it shouldn't take you too long as you wont have as many pages of Google to sift through.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Gosh, and all this time I thought that Texas, Alaska and Alabama we're in 'Murrica!.... we were talking about the Oz health system weren't we?

Could we have some Australian examples please? it shouldn't take you too long as you wont have as many pages of Google to sift through.

We don't have Australian examples....yet. I think they are fair examples of what happens when you open up and have a high number of unvaccinated.

Queensland = Alabama and Texas. WA is just a hot Alaska.

[russellw]

NSW/VIC

NSW records 294 cases in the current period and the 10-day average growth rate increases to 0.9828 (from 0.9621) while the actual line remains above the predictive trend line and is heading upward again.



VIC records 1,461 cases in the current period and the 10-day average growth rate decreases to 0.9697 (from 0.9891) while the actual line falls behind the predictive trend which has been changed to a 4th order polynomial.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by leesa

I think there might be some misinterpretation of what I'm saying.
It won't be a case of "you just have to sit and wait a bit longer", it'll be a case of "we can't help you, there's no bed for you" where you then just go home where you might die before anything becomes available.






A guy in america just died recently from a gallstone. He couldn't get a bed because the hospital was full of unvaccinated covid patients. Exhausted hospital resources doesn't just mean you have to wait longer, it means people die from treatable conditions.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/p...21-8?r=US&IR=T

Here's one about a dialysis patient who died because there weren't enough nurses to run the dialysis machine, they were all looking after covid patients.
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021...l-under-siege/

Heart attack, no bed because full of covid patients.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/13/u...age/index.html

That's what exhausted hospitals look like. Hopefully enough of the country ends up vaccinated so as to avoid that becoming a reality here. We shouldn't be losing people from treatable gallstones because someone else is taking up a bed from not being vaccinated.

No misinterpretation on my part.
Where's the figures with our hospitals being overrun, if any our hospitals are coping quite well as to what was recently predicted by our government in regards to covid cases.

[slowsnake]

[QUOTE=Itsme;6642680]No misinterpretation on my part.
Where's the figures with our hospitals being overrun, if any our hospitals are coping quite well as to what was recently predicted by our government in regards to covid cases.[QUOTE]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-...sued/100026020

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT October 24th 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

2,203 new cases for Australia and 15 deaths so the CMR is 1.032%.

84 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.497%.

The UK had 38,740 cases yesterday and 72 deaths for a CMR of 1.590%.

30,244 new cases in the USA yesterday and 484 deaths sees CMR at 1.633%.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)

Only
PNG (896)

... recorded new highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period and no countries drop below.

[Citroënbender]

If hospitals get overrun, it might allow broadening of scope for medical centres and pharmacies to triage lesser ailments. Possibly vets, if things really got bad.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by zilo

You are talking about the public hospital system yeah?

IIRC if you slam the cash on the counter of a private hospital you can get serviced anytime?

No, Private as well. Mine is through work cover and already approved.
I was told "You need help but you have to wait just in case others need help."
🙄

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

If hospitals get overrun, it might allow broadening of scope for medical centres and pharmacies to triage lesser ailments. Possibly vets, if things really got bad.

I don't want a vet taking my temperature thanks!

[cosworthfreak]

Originally Posted by cs123

I don't want a vet taking my temperature thanks!

“Say Arggggggh!”

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

If hospitals get overrun, it might allow broadening of scope for medical centres and pharmacies to triage lesser ailments. Possibly vets, if things really got bad.

Yeh, get mechanics too!....just pull in, give us a pint of "O Positive" and check my waterworks!.....

[MITCHAY]

Testing numbers are way down in ACT (<1k) at the moment though a good part of that can be attributed to changing the exposure site information. I'm hoping it's not because of too much complacency because I find it hard to believe there are <1k with possible symptoms and/or exposure.

We should hit 90%+ double dose this week and they are doing some popup clinics to get to the rest.

I did finally get around to ordering some fabric masks in anticipation of being back in the office but not sure when that is going to happen. I'm hoping in the next week or two.

Work released the 'plan' but as usual it says **** all. It gives the graphic designers something to do at least I guess

[Cav]

I fail to understand the hysteria regarding the unvaccinated.

There seems to be a notion that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading the virus. This may well be the case.

But it is also the case that the fully vaccinated are not protected from contracting the virus and indeed they can also pass it on.

[MITCHAY]

I think these restrictions on the unvaccinated at this point are stupid. Sure if they did it 6 months ago maybe but now I don't get the point and it's perhaps more burden on business. They are not enforcing it here like they do in NSW though I have heard it is a mixed bag over the border

[slowsnake]

Seems to me it's a preventative issue, even if it don't work, it's got to have a mental effect on people to be more careful with hygiene!.....

[T3rminator]

Didn't modelling suggest 90% was "herd immunity" zone? Once achieved, open her up to everyone IMHO.

The conundrum is, if govs declared that now, more than 10% might decide to wait......meaning we'll never achieve 90%.

Vic set to hit 90% first dose tomorrow according to covidlive. QLD, WA and NT still a while off.

[Citroënbender]

I’m watching NSW taper off sharply at only 85% of 16+ candidates. Sunday there was 0,2% increase in total.

If it’s any barometer for how the other states may actually proceed, this is not a good prospect for those holding out for 90%.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Ok, I'll apologise in advance as this is likely to be a lengthy post.

To recap, for those who missed it and to save you going back to look at it, the reason why we were at the hospital in the first place is that my daughter had an adverse reaction to her second Moderna vaccination on Wednesday. Even though I didn't think it was anything serious, when it comes to chest pain, I wasn't going to take a risk, so we decided a trip to the local hospital's Emergency Department was in order.

We arrived at the ED about 6:20am, to find the door to the ED closed and a sign on the window saying that the screening tent (to the side of the ED department door) was closed and if service was required, press the button near the door. We pressed the button, and once the nurse was able to get the screening room window open, she took our details. She asked us to wait outside until they were ready for us. Being a fine, mild morning, that wasn't an issue. Whilst waiting, I text the ex to let her know what was going on. We talked and she said she'd meet us up there.

Shortly after that, we were asked to come inside, entering via the Ambulance entry door, and were shown into a cubicle. As soon as my daughter was settled, I mentioned to the nurse that my ex was due shortly and that I'd wait outside for her. Heading back outside, I waited until the ex arrived, which was only about 10 minutes after we were shown inside. We then rang the bell again, and got shown in. The nurse then said that only one of us was allowed to be inside with our daughter, so I let the ex go in whilst I went back outside to wait.

Whilst waiting I saw a friend, who got caught running between a couple of buildings without her mask (tsk tsk) and had a bit of a chat. Shortly after, my friend, who is one of the infectious control nurses walked past and we had a chat. At about that time, the ex text me to say there had been an announcement over the hospital speakers that there was a code yellow in the hospital, impacting ED, x-ray and surgical ward. As a result, the entire hospital was closed and no one was allowed in or out (including ED where they advised anyone who presented to go to Traralgon or Bairnsdale (about 40 mins away) or see a GP).

With more time to kill, I continued to wait out the front until my mate, who is the hospital electrician, came past, so we chatted for a while. When I had finished, I returned back to where the chairs were out the front of ED and the gent who had been waiting out the front with me for a while told me that he had been told not to go anywhere as, after being inside, he was potentially a close contact to a covid patient and to await further advice.

Talking to my nurse friend later, what had happened was that a patient had come in late Wednesday night, with a broken limb. At that point he had no covid symptoms. He'd gone to x-ray and then on to surgical ward to have the break repaired. He had then shown covid signs, been tested, and the positive result had come through just before the code yellow was called. He had not been in ED for about 5 hours before we got there. My friend said all hell had broken loose just after she walked in the doors after having stopped to talk to me.

That was a little before 8. The covid patient turned out to be in the cubicle next to the one my daughter was in. Whilst the daughter and ex were there, cleaners were called in to do a deep clean, which had no reason to be conducted until the positive result had come back.

At about 11, the ex was talked to by the manager of the ED, providing detail as to what was going on and that, because no deep cleaning had been done before they were in the cubicle, they needed to isolate for 14 days. They provided the contact details for the Latrobe Regional Hospital, where the Gippsland Public Health Unit which manages covid issues throughout Gippsland, were located and we could get further info from. They also advised that formal contact from the DHHS would be forthcoming.

With that, they were let out of ED. Yet, no one talked to me at all about what I needed to do given that I had been inside with my daughter, albeit for no more than 5 minutes. So, I went and rang the bell for service and asked the nurse if I needed to isolate. She asked if I had been inside, which I responded yes to, and she looked confused. She came back in a minute or so and asked me to write down my contact details on a blank piece of paper! I said to her that if the info was for my nurse friend, that she was a personal friend and would know my contact details if they needed anything further.

We went home and started to isolate. Later that night, my nurse friend contacted me to advise that both the ex and I only needed to isolate for 7 days, as we are both double vacced, with a PCR test required on day 6. However, because my daughter had only received her second dose the day before, she was considered to be non-fully vacced and needed to isolate for 14 days with a PCR test on day 13. She advised that DHHS would be in contact with us to formalise the arrangement, but don't expect anything within 48 hours as they were under the pump.

So, we've been in iso since about lunchtime Thursday, which is day 0. My daughter is staying with me, and since it will be nigh on impossible for us to not interact after 7 days when I could otherwise be out of iso, I'll iso for 14 days. Plus, I can WFH whereas the ex works in a pharmacy so can't WFH. Therefore, the ex will just do the 7 days. She was contacted by the LRH PHU yesterday, but still hasn't received anything in writing which would allow her to claim the covid assistance. Doesn't bother me as I'll be working through the iso time anyway.

But, I still haven't heard anything from DHHS, apart from my nurse friend. No text, no phone call. Nothing. I know they are busy and probs overwhelmed, but how long do I have to wait? What if I did need the formal notification so I could claim covid assistance to make ends meet?

It's been an interesting experience, that's for sure. My feeling is that everything seemed to be chaotic. My nurse friend told me that the hospital lockdown this time around was much better than their first one, which was only the week before our exposure. I told her that things seemed a little disjointed, but she assured me that there were things going on in the background that wouldn't have been disclosed to me. Like when I called LRH to get some advise after we got back from the hospital. They gave me no indication that they even knew the hospital was an exposure site and the lady actually told me to go and get a covid test that day. When I asked her if that was too soon given that I was only exposed that morning, she responded with "oh, yeah, that's probably the case. Maybe just leave it until tomorrow."

If our case is the way all exposure sites in Victoria are handled, I can see why covid is spreading. I could have quite easily just not isolated at all and whilst the risk of me having got covid is very small given our exposure circumstances, the flow-on effects from me not isolating could have been significant.

[jaydee]

Mate you've definitely been you know what with a pineapple.
I admire your internal fortitude dealing with this, good luck and hope your daughter recovers OK .

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Cav

I fail to understand the hysteria regarding the unvaccinated.

There seems to be a notion that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading the virus. This may well be the case.

But it is also the case that the fully vaccinated are not protected from contracting the virus and indeed they can also pass it on.

Yeah, some are missing the point and thinking covid will go away if everyone is vaxxed, or unvaxxed are a direct menace.
My only personal issue is that unvaxxed are going to get sicker and end up in hospital, They will clog up the system, force health workers and the system hard, cause hospital lockdowns and staff quarantines, and if you or anyone you know needs hospital for non covid related reasons you may find there will be no beds and the staffing is be an issue because unvaxxed filled the place up.
That's a real possibility, going back to the beginning of the outbreak we were terrified into lockdowns because we didn't want to fill the hospitals up like they were filling up overseas. Today there's no reason to worry except anitvaxxers.

I'm not pro partial opening up with a 2 class system but that's mainly because retail or hospitality staff shouldn't play police and have to deal with those babies. I wouldn't risk assault from morons, low paid untrained workers shouldn't either. Opening up should be done when the gov has the numbers, projections and health system up to scratch to be all or nothing, vaxxed or unvaxxed.
I do hope anitvaxxers with the conviction of saying science and medical experts are bad if the vaccines are bad, so they also stay clear from hospitals too. But they won't, because they're morons.

E: Watched an interesting thing about the spanish flu last week. Reason it was so deadly for 20-40 yr olds was solely because they caught the wrong flu earlier in their lives. The spanish flu is known for being strange because it killed more healthy younger people that the regular flu does.

Answer is the flu is always around - lives in bird populations - occasionally spreads to horse, pigs and humans as a new variant. Humans get exposed as babies and usually survive and we carry those antibodies for the rest of our lives.
Thing is though 1890-1900 was a different variant. The spanish flu (came from horses, came from toronto canada actually), was similar to 1870 flus, old people had that already, they survived. Younger people had a different flu they got in the 1890s, they weren't prepped for the 1918 flu (which had the same H and N proteins*/'spikes' as pre 1880 flus so they often died.

Point is, that's how the vaccines work, expose you to a little bit (or replication of it in mRNAs) to prep you to not get really really sick or die.

I was suprised how flu spreads and it's sources. Makes sense when you hear of bird flu, swine flu etc
*flu is all about the H and N spikes, think H1N1 (the spanish flu was H1N1) the 'h' is to get into cells (the key), the 'n' is to get out of the infected cell to spread.
The 1880 flu was h2, the 1900 flu was h3 so those people had the wrong antibodies for h1 (1870 flu and 1918 "spanish" flu)