2018 Ranger Raptor

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by prydey

clearly i'm getting old, because when I see people drive like that now, I just think 'what a tosser'.

Diesel dual cab utes would have the highest average speed of all road users on the same road, so there is that.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Diesel dual cab utes would have the highest average speed of all road users on the same road, so there is that.

Tradies - always in a hurry, except when they're coming to your place

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by prydey

this isn't really an accurate analogy. they aren't offering you a vegan burger. they are offering you a double meat burger. you just won't accept it because you thought it was going to be a triple meat burger....

more power, more torque, better economy and can go more places. whats the problem?

oh wait, the traffic light grand prix...

No mate its no double meat burger, with that engine it's more like a melted cheeseburger .

There's no question it's a great truck with its suspension and looks but its no freaking Raptor with a 2L diesel. You can polish a turd as much as you like but its still a turd.

The 10 speed is there to keep it on song and thus you'd have to consider that for most of its life it will be on song so there's also doubt the poor thing with have a long life span, which is going to cost.

"oh wait, the traffic light grand prix..."

Pffft nothing to do with it but knowing you have some lazy grunt on board when needing to pass etc is.

There will be a time when one will pull alongside and I will be in awe of its looks etc but then I will recall what's under the hood and reality will set it in.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

No mate its no double meat burger, with that engine it's more like a melted cheeseburger .

There's no question it's a great truck with its suspension and looks but its no freaking Raptor with a 2L diesel. You can polish a turd as much as you like but its still a turd.

The 10 speed is there to keep it on song and thus you'd have to consider that for most of its life it will be on song so there's also doubt the poor thing with have a long life span, which is going to cost.

Have you seen the video Ford have posted, where they run it at full throttle for 18 days straight on a chassis dyno?

Driven one yet?

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Have you seen the video Ford have posted, where they run it at full throttle for 18 days straight on a chassis dyno?

Not knocking the ranger here, but I never trust anything ford says about it's "testing" Wasn't the ba "tested" for a million kilometres or something but somehow they never found all the issues owners had in the first 100 000

[jpd80]

But this isn't like a BA, it's more like a BF III

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Have you seen the video Ford have posted, where they run it at full throttle for 18 days straight on a chassis dyno?

Driven one yet?

18 days at full throttle, yeah right if you believe that.

Why would I want to drive one when it now doesn't meet my needs.

I'm at the stage of wanting a new rig to see me out and the initial Raptor info was looking to be the goods. But then the engine killed it.

My current 4wd is old and doesn't have anywhere near the Raptors suspension but its engine performance would absolutely smoke a Raptor and there's noway I would take a big dump in that area so the 2L was so disappointing, considering the available US engines.

But hopefully future models may fix this.

[spvd02]

What - only 18 days? Why not 20, a nice round number? Too difficult? Running an engine for 18 days straight at full throttle is not an accurate simulation of daily use over several years. What about repeated cold starts, driving under load from low rpm (not just free-revving on a dyno). Diesel engines aren't all that stressed at maximum rpm anyway, as the slow-burning characteristics of the fuel prevents any potential over-load on moving parts, much like a rev-limiter on petrol engine. The 18 day test gives no indication as to how long this engine will last...

[galaxy xr8]

Saw my first Raptor on the road today, I must say it looked fantastic and more masculine then the Ranger Wildtrak.

I like them.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by spvd02

What - only 18 days? Why not 20, a nice round number? Too difficult? Running an engine for 18 days straight at full throttle is not an accurate simulation of daily use over several years. What about repeated cold starts, driving under load from low rpm (not just free-revving on a dyno). Diesel engines aren't all that stressed at maximum rpm anyway, as the slow-burning characteristics of the fuel prevents any potential over-load on moving parts, much like a rev-limiter on petrol engine. The 18 day test gives no indication as to how long this engine will last...

They did.
both, cycling temperatures and running the engine flat out under full load
at 26 seconds, you can see the engine gauges are set a 3700 rpm and 375 nm of torque.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB3OBo7_SjI

The engine has ben fully tested for other commercial vehicles like the FWD Euro Transit,
it's actually been out for a couple of years in other Euro vehicles.

[spvd02]

Originally Posted by jpd80

They did.
both, cycling temperatures and running the engine flat out under full load
at 26 seconds, you can see the engine gauges are set a 3700 rpm and 375 nm of torque.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB3OBo7_SjI

The engine has ben fully tested for other commercial vehicles like the FWD Euro Transit,
it's actually been out for a couple of years in other Euro vehicles.

Ok, then I stand corrected on that. The engine can handle sustained load as well as changes in operating temperature. A question still remains in my mind, however - while it may be able to withstand a range of operating conditions ( as it should ), does this indicate that the engine will last longer? Will it still operate well after a life of punishment, having covered 150K? I think larger capacity with similar output will hold a significant advantage here, which is why potential buyers would understandably veer towards the 3.2L, which would have been quite desirable with further development and refinement. Offering a 2L alternative does not satisfy these customers.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by spvd02

Ok, then I stand corrected on that. The engine can handle sustained load as well as changes in operating temperature. A question still remains in my mind, however - while it may be able to withstand a range of operating conditions ( as it should ), does this indicate that the engine will last longer? Will it still operate well after a life of punishment, having covered 150K? I think larger capacity with similar output will hold a significant advantage here, which is why potential buyers would understandably veer towards the 3.2L, which would have been quite desirable with further development and refinement. Offering a 2L alternative does not satisfy these customers.

And I get your skepticism but think about what you just said and what's been
happening with engne down sizing over the years.

You're now asking if the engine would last 150K when people used to ask if a
diesel would last 300K. The point being that they do and don't last, a heavy
fleet loaded Transit with 2.0 Ecoblue will more than pay for itself in improved
fuel economy over the old 2.2.....

but would the RR have been better off with a chipped and tuned 3.2 I-5 as a run to the finish
or was it more important to get a sub 2.0 litre engine in there for Asian and European markets?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by prydey

Tradies - always in a hurry, except when they're coming to your place

No, most are towing a caravan / rented camper trailer on a freeway with kids in the back.

[jpd80]

and all of it claimed as business usage...

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

The 10 speed is there to keep it on song and thus you'd have to consider that for most of its life it will be on song so there's also doubt the poor thing with have a long life span, which is going to cost.

Endurance testing of the engine included 18 Days of non stop full throttle use, I think it will probably be fine for day drive duties and week end warriors.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Just sayin'

In reality its the diesel Territory effect, just buy a 50cc scooter for getting to work like i have and the Terri will make you feel like one of those tosser's when necessary.

From what I see, it's everything but stop light racing. Plenty of Utes and larger SUVs
prefer to slice through the traffic switching lanes left or right with little intent on stopping
or giving way unless someone makes them. Drive up a suburban street and old mates
driving out around a corner in front of you. No wonder there's so many crashes on the road.

[jmack]

just wondering for anyone who has read the warranty section is there a clause that ford can void warranty if used in the conditions it was designed for

[simon varley]

several years ago, nobody thought the 3.2 could ever be made to run at Euro 6.2 emissions level which is would need to do so, for the life of this product. That's another reason why the 2.0 was developed. As it happens, the team at AVL did make is comply to Eu6.2 so the engine has a new lease of life.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

several years ago, nobody thought the 3.2 could ever be made to run at Euro 6.2 emissions level which is would need to do so, for the life of this product. That's another reason why the 2.0 was developed. As it happens, the team at AVL did make is comply to Eu6.2 so the engine has a new lease of life.

I disagree, the Americans grabbed the 3.2 and used it in US Transit with SCR,
that's what allowed the Euros to meet Euro 6

The 2.0 diesel and its little 1.5 brother were developed to eliminate all the older
Ford based and PSA based diesels, the Puma design is now so out of date that
it has to be replaced - the 3.0 V6 Powerstroke is on the way.

European CO2 regulations are approaching the point of the 3.2 being removed
from segments where smaller more efficient engines can be used.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

18 days at full throttle, yeah right if you believe that.

Why would I want to drive one when it now doesn't meet my needs.

I'm at the stage of wanting a new rig to see me out and the initial Raptor info was looking to be the goods. But then the engine killed it.

My current 4wd is old and doesn't have anywhere near the Raptors suspension but its engine performance would absolutely smoke a Raptor and there's noway I would take a big dump in that area so the 2L was so disappointing, considering the available US engines.

But hopefully future models may fix this.

You spend an insane amount of time bitching about something you don't want.

And yeah the engine lab will quite often run engines at full song for very long periods.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Ive finally driven a raptor. I was impressed with it in performance mode!



If anyones is looking to drive one spiritedly drive it in performance mode, it sounds and goes better.



Also you don't feel speed bumps at 80!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by simon varley

several years ago, nobody thought the 3.2 could ever be made to run at Euro 6.2 emissions level which is would need to do so, for the life of this product. That's another reason why the 2.0 was developed. As it happens, the team at AVL did make is comply to Eu6.2 so the engine has a new lease of life.

At what cost.



The earlier 3.2's go better then the current ones. Not sure what it is, smaller turbo, DPF or what. In fact mine does not go as good as it did prior to the 30,000 km service when it had a PCM update.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

At what cost.



The earlier 3.2's go better then the current ones. Not sure what it is, smaller turbo, DPF or what. In fact mine does not go as good as it did prior to the 30,000 km service when it had a PCM update.

Most likely increased EGR rates, the later Euro 6 reduces NOX by 55%
and to do that, most manufacturers use increased EGR and SCR (adblue)

[roKWiz]

Well I crawled all over (and under) this one yesterday at Euroa, show and shine trying to see what all the fuss is about.
I thought it would of had independent rear suspension, engine bay is super tight, passenger compartment looked OK, a little basic for what it costs but then I'm not into 4WD's. Maybe the white doesn't do it justice.









Quite liked the Mustang though.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You spend an insane amount of time bitching about something you don't want.

And yeah the engine lab will quite often run engines at full song for very long periods.

This is a forum.

Again you missed the point as the vid shows its put on a chassis dyno and then supposedly for 18 days straight !!!! For 18 days at full throttle as is inferred without major diff and trans coolers etc they would give up let alone the engine. Total crap if you believe that.

Yes, they do test engines on ENGINE dyno's for lengthy periods but even on an engine dyno none would survive full throttle for 18 continuous days.

I assume you have seen Fords vid torture testing the F150 V6 ecoboost where they ENGINE dyno it at full throttle for 1 HOUR and then do separate hot and cold running tests etc etc all done over a period of weeks.

The guy in this vid infers a 18 day porkie and you believe it

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

This is a forum.

Again you missed the point as the vid shows its put on a chassis dyno and then supposedly for 18 days straight !!!! For 18 days at full throttle as is inferred without major diff and trans coolers etc they would give up let alone the engine. Total crap if you believe that.

Yes, they do test engines on ENGINE dyno's for lengthy periods but even on an engine dyno none would survive full throttle for 18 continuous days.

I assume you have seen Fords vid torture testing the F150 V6 ecoboost where they ENGINE dyno it at full throttle for 1 HOUR and then do separate hot and cold running tests etc etc all done over a period of weeks.

The guy in this vid infers a 18 day porkie and you believe it

You may want to do a bit of reading on how Ford do their torture testing.
Things like running it flat out until it's red hot, then shutting it down and filling it up with -20° chilled water until the block forms dew all over it and then doing it again, and again and again for weeks on end.
Or how they run them flat out for 2 and a half months. 18 days....pfft.

That's only a small part of their torture testing.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I disagree,

PX2 Ranger currently meets Eu6.1 with Puma and SCR, but PX3 is required to meet Eu6.2 from Sept this year. It is the step from 6.1 to 6.2 that was thought not possible (same as the Barra Eu3-Eu4 ??). Puma extension program by AVL made is work somehow

your other points are valid and Puma clearly has a finite life.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

For 18 days at full throttle as is inferred without major diff and trans coolers etc they would give up let alone the engine. Total crap if you believe that.

bzzzt! wrong!

not least, because temperatures would have stabilised within a couple of hours. pretty basic thermodynamics.

[ozrunner]

[QUOTE=Mercury Bullet;6200676]

Oh boy. Did you not read the following

"I assume you have seen Fords vid torture testing the F150 V6 ecoboost where they ENGINE dyno it at full throttle for 1 HOUR and then do separate hot and cold running tests etc etc all done over a period of weeks.

Yes, I know they do all sorts of torture testing over a period of time including hot to cold on an engine dyno and at max rpm etc and in the V6 ecoboost tests this was at 1 hour intervals.

But the muppet in the vid says

"Next the ultimate endurance test, full throttle for 18 days straight" and its shown doing this on a chassis dyno in 4wd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB3OBo7_SjI

Bossxr8 then quoted this to me in response to my previous general reply to Prydey and I then called it that dudes statement has to be BS.

Now you're coming on board saying "Or how they run them flat out for 2 and a half months. 18 days....pfft."

Huh. 2 1/2 months !!! Mate, I think you're getting a tad mixed up between continuous and your flat out .

"You may want to do a bit of reading on how Ford do their torture testing."

Do you have a link ?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

PX2 Ranger currently meets Eu6.1 with Puma and SCR, but PX3 is required to meet Eu6.2 from Sept this year. It is the step from 6.1 to 6.2 that was thought not possible (same as the Barra Eu3-Eu4 ??). Puma extension program by AVL made is work somehow.

Ford's modelling software didn't include the new test cycles
The Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP)
and Real Driving Emissions measured on an actual road course.

AVL did a great job but i noticed comments in the US with the latest 3.2 Transit
not seeming to have as much poke as the older versions, maybe they had to
tone it down to keep compliance in all the areas now measured / monitored.