All things Solar (merged threads)

[poppa smurf]

not sure about "shouldn't matter how it looks" mate.......solar is up there for the long haul...15 to 25 years are some of the figures bandied around even a slight amount of movement X friction X time = trouble

I tidied up a few areas on my install but I really think it should be done properly in the first place.....sloppy install = sloppy????

the junction box should have been at least screwed to the beam.....cable ties are prone to breakage, cables left dangling are a fire risk

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

not sure about "shouldn't matter how it looks" mate.......solar is up there for the long haul...15 to 25 years are some of the figures bandied around even a slight amount of movement X friction X time = trouble

I tidied up a few areas on my install but I really think it should be done properly in the first place.....sloppy install = sloppy????

the junction box should have been at least screwed to the beam.....cable ties are prone to breakage, cables left dangling are a fire risk

Definitely it should be a lot cleaner, however the sloppy cabling wouldn't be causing any performance issues if it is properly wired

[poppa smurf]

no not now, but as I say in the future there may be a problem.......best to have it tidy right from the get go.....I wont comment on performance as i will leave that to the experts, I have seen a few "issues" that may contribute to under power though

[comagutsa]

WELL WELL WELL ....LOVE THIS FORUM

well i jumped back up on the roof toady after sparky dave brought something up
and it looks like my last panel in the top string isn't even connected WTF



i pulled the wires out and yep its just attached to itself

after telling me its making its average, there is nothing wrong blah blah (and the installer wouldn't even come out to look at it) ....makes me mad that does

the bloke who sold it to me was more of a help than the installer (the bloke who sold it said that was the last straw for the installer, hes done a few stuff ups)
so if its hooked up in in 3x lots of 5 and because 1 lot has only 4 would that drag the everything down???

oh and the installer is sending someone out today ..like he bloody well should

and here are the pics of the other stuff







and the panels

[Stagg]

At least you'll see a positive difference when someone has come out to fix the problem to not making what you have currently been making.

As someone who really works and believes in the industry it is annoying and disheartening that folks who work in the industry pull **** like this, which snowballs into people hearing about shock jobs and then being turned off by the industry. The whole industry really does need a tighten up and people have to have a standard level of workmanship.

Especially as you would have paid top dollar for Suntech & SMA for that system, I would assume it's only fair you get a top quality install!

It is good that you had a few guys here helping you out and it's good that you had the guts to get up on the roof to check it out good work!!

[SPArKy_Dave]

That's great news.

You just need to find which of the 3 strings, is missing a panel.
You don't want to end up with a string of 4, 5, and 6 panels.

The unconnected panel, and un-equal strings, will be the primary issue here.
But there are the other installation issues.


The biggest two, are -

1. The el-cheapo DC circuit breaker they've used, is under-rated for the number of panels connected in series.

There are effectively two strings going through that 800V DC breaker, and each pole is rated at 200V.

When the calculations are done, you need a breaker rated at approx 1200v, or 300V per pole.
The minimum per pole rating you can have, is 273V. (or a 1092v rated isolator)
Since the next size up from 1000v, is 1200v, that's the one you want.

And ask for a decent DC isolator - Telergon, IMO, or Kraus Naimler. (About $100.00)
Don't accept that $20.00 chinese rubbish.

Makes me sad to see a premium panel/inverter system spoiled by cheapo switchgear.
They're a real fire hazard.


2. cables lying on the tiles under the panels, is a definite no.
Be hard to fix that one up without removing the solar panels.

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

And ask for a decent DC isolator - Telergon, IMO, or Kraus Naimler. (About $100.00)
Don't accept that $20.00 chinese rubbish.

Makes me sad to see a premium panel/inverter system spoiled by cheapo switchgear.
They're a real fire hazard.

Story of my life, customer asks why we're more expensive than the other people selling the same gear...

[poppa smurf]

terrific outcome.......really pleased for you.......well done to sparky for picking the problem, I had my suspicions but didn't like to say anything that I'm not qualified in

great outcome!

sparky said........"2. cables lying on the tiles under the panels, is a definite no.
Be hard to fix that one up without removing the solar panels"

couldn't agree more!

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by Stagg

Story of my life, customer asks why we're more expensive than the other people selling the same gear...

Clearly great minds think alike.........

I reckon we should team up, tell those dodgey sales mobs to F-off, and install premium systems, for customers direct.


The likes of Modern, TVS, Origin, etc........ cause more problems then they're worth.
Making stupid unrealistic promises to customers....... yes sir, our standard grid connect solar will continue to power ur house, when the Grid goes down.
FFS.

[SPArKy_Dave]

Like I said - A real fire Hazard -

http://s931.beta.photobucket.com/use...romLegacy=true

edit - that rotary switch in the background, being used to save the day, is a Telergon ZFV32.

[comagutsa]

yeah just spoke with the bloke who sold it to me and told him what sparky Dave said and i sent him an email with all the pics and hes is a bit upset about the whole thing as the installer was meant to use quality bits
i think he will be getting onto the installer to fix all the stuff ups

will now have to wait and see what happens now

thanks again to everyone

[comagutsa]

well after i posted the above bit there was a knock at the door
went up and connected panel and tested before 1990w after 2250w (never been that high on a normal sunny day with no clouds)
when back up and 45mins later after fixing all the cables he could without removing panels its reading 2050w at 2.45pm , usually around 1800w this time of day....

bring on a sunny day tomorrow and see what happens

[poppa smurf]

ah! so you've picked up an extra 260 watt.......great news this should give you an extra 1.5 kilowatts per day

should boost your output quite significant......no damage to the panel by reverse power I hope

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

ah! so you've picked up an extra 260 watt.......great news this should give you an extra 1.5 kilowatts per day

should boost your output quite significant......no damage to the panel by reverse power I hope

yeah will wait and see i guess
over the last week best i have got is in the 15units range 3 days out of 7 as its been a bit cloudy
hope tomorrow is a nice sunny day and i will let you know how it goes

[Dragoneletra]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

not sure about "shouldn't matter how it looks" mate.......solar is up there for the long haul...15 to 25 years are some of the figures bandied around even a slight amount of movement X friction X time = trouble

I tidied up a few areas on my install but I really think it should be done properly in the first place.....sloppy install = sloppy????

the junction box should have been at least screwed to the beam.....cable ties are prone to breakage, cables left dangling are a fire risk

Meant to use stainless cable ties as per regs ? and the junction box was floating in the breeze ? That's not sloppy thats cr4p. no good. you shouldn't have to neaten a thing, clean up after a tradesman, you shouldn't have to do anything.

[Dragoneletra]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

Clearly great minds think alike.........

I reckon we should team up, tell those dodgey sales mobs to F-off, and install premium systems, for customers direct.


The likes of Modern, TVS, Origin, etc........ cause more problems then they're worth.
Making stupid unrealistic promises to customers....... yes sir, our standard grid connect solar will continue to power ur house, when the Grid goes down.
FFS.

A lot of down south outfits are moving into darwin now. i know of one company from south who has had to replace 103 installs due to not being to NT code.

Pretty bad. we are looking at getting into solar. Accredited and everything, just haven't started anything yet.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Dragoneletra

Meant to use stainless cable ties as per regs ? and the junction box was floating in the breeze ? That's not sloppy thats cr4p. no good. you shouldn't have to neaten a thing, clean up after a tradesman, you shouldn't have to do anything.

my install was pretty good, I just got a few cables off the roof.......my comment on the junction box was a referral to comagutsa's instal (see pics)

a possible scenario could be the ties give way over time and the junction box is left unattended in the roof space doing god knows what

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by Dragoneletra

Meant to use stainless cable ties as per regs ? and the junction box was floating in the breeze ? That's not sloppy thats cr4p. no good. you shouldn't have to neaten a thing, clean up after a tradesman, you shouldn't have to do anything.

the metal cable ties as per regs came into affect around October i think and my system was done in June 2012 before the regs changed to everything in conduit and metal ties

[comagutsa]

also 1 thing i have also noticed is the Volts on the PV side has gone from 138v in the pic above to over 160v on the inverter now

[Dragoneletra]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

my install was pretty good, I just got a few cables off the roof.......my comment on the junction box was a referral to comagutsa's instal (see pics)

a possible scenario could be the ties give way over time and the junction box is left unattended in the roof space doing god knows what

Ahh apologies. I misread.

Though stainless cable ties are the minimum they shouldn't ever come loose.

[poppa smurf]

so less power drawn from the grid as well with the increase in volts......win win!

I always screw the junction box to the rafter before I install any wiring......I would never use cable ties to secure the box....

that is er um assuming I was to do any electrical work, which of course I wouldn't under any circumstances cos that'd be illegal!

[Dragoneletra]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

the metal cable ties as per regs came into affect around October i think and my system was done in June 2012 before the regs changed to everything in conduit and metal ties

No worries.

There are a lot of dodgy operators getting around in solar circles.....I had a quote done on our place out of curiousity.

17K
didn't do shade analysis
didn't even get up on the roof and look
had to ask where north was (compass app ? Smart phone ? wtf?)
told me I would get 4.5kw from a 4.5kw system no worries

out of curiousity again, i'm getting another tomorrow from a different company. I quoted it all up and know what i'm going to charge, but thought I would see just how professional the competition really are.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

The likes of Modern, TVS, Origin, etc........ cause more problems then they're worth.

my TVS system is fine. no dodgy wiring, no hanging cables, no dodgy circuit breakers etc etc.

its a bit of a 'general' statement you make, but bear in mind, there are the exceptions to the rule, and some companies do change. often the sales and the installations are totally separate companies and all it takes is a bad installer to ruin the solar company reputation.

TVS sacked most of their installers in adelaide in late 2011/early 2012, and most of the negative feedback is from before that time.

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by prydey

my TVS system is fine. no dodgy wiring, no hanging cables, no dodgy circuit breakers etc etc.

its a bit of a 'general' statement you make, but bear in mind, there are the exceptions to the rule, and some companies do change. often the sales and the installations are totally separate companies and all it takes is a bad installer to ruin the solar company reputation.

TVS sacked most of their installers in adelaide in late 2011/early 2012, and most of the negative feedback is from before that time.

Here is the number of times TVS has changed their business name

True Value Solar (VIC) Pty Ltd – (ABN 57135821626) – 31st of March 2009
True Value Solar (SA) Pty Ltd – (ABN 11143232482) – 20th of April 2010
National Solar Group – (ABN 31143993248) – 1st of June 2010
State Solar Services – (ABN 85563549240) – 1st July 2010
State Solar Services Pty Ltd – (ABN 57135821626) – 22nd of December 2010

Bear in mind every time they have changed their name, all of those previous customers now have voided warranties, let's hope they don't change their name again because you will be left without a warranty, hate to be the bearer of bad news...


Also, your system has been up less than a year, I would expect the panels to be yellowing by next summer..

[poppa smurf]

well I would not be in too big a hurry to poo poo any solar system regardless of cost

the only thing that would concern me is cost versus time.......given the initial outlay of the system is less then payback time is less longevity of the system may come into play but the savings made in the meantime are not insignificant.... the bank account rises as a consequence

I have been involved in a few "cheap" installs where the company has installed and knicked off....the system is still producing as good as ever and in quite a few cases has paid itself off

in the meantime the owner has no, or little bills, and if the the system fails is now in a position to possibly consider larger

a lot of "reputable" solar sales outlets have gone under as well so the warranty of either system is questionable at best

we all have a bucket of money.....some buckets are bigger than others.....I hope the cheaper systems go on forever and produce copious amounts of power for the owners

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

well after i posted the above bit there was a knock at the door
went up and connected panel and tested before 1990w after 2250w (never been that high on a normal sunny day with no clouds)
when back up and 45mins later after fixing all the cables he could without removing panels its reading 2050w at 2.45pm , usually around 1800w this time of day....

bring on a sunny day tomorrow and see what happens

they should lift all panels and check because you still don't know if it's right

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by deesun

I'm surprised you get any sunny days in Goulburn, lol. My bil +sil are building in Goulburn atm and have decided not to go the solar route. I think they will be sorry in the long run. Big house, 4 very young kids and its their family home probably forever. Whats the FIT in NSW nowadays?

We get sun, however we also get lots of wind, which has made erecting my Ranbuild shed lots of fun.

FIT in nsw is whatever you get from the retailer, upto 7 or 8c.

Goulburn also means you pay 31c/ kwh so your bil + sil will pay dearly for no solar.

[fnm17]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

Like I said - A real fire Hazard -

http://s931.beta.photobucket.com/use...romLegacy=true

edit - that rotary switch in the background, being used to save the day, is a Telergon ZFV32.

Damm just watched that video, have to check what I have at home ... bugger being that guy in the video !!!!

[deesun]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

We get sun, however we also get lots of wind, which has made erecting my Ranbuild shed lots of fun.

FIT in nsw is whatever you get from the retailer, upto 7 or 8c.

Goulburn also means you pay 31c/ kwh so your bil + sil will pay dearly for no solar.

Yep, realised what I said after. FIT is ****** in NSW nowadays and would have had an adverse effect on installs. Even so I agree they will pay dearly.

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by deesun

Yep, realised what I said after. FIT is ****** in NSW nowadays and would have had an adverse effect on installs. Even so I agree they will pay dearly.

Have to remember though that 7-8c per kWh is the wholesale rate of power, and since FiT all over Oz were put in place, they were all going to disappear in a few years anyway, the whole industry knew of this and it sure isn't going to get better, nor will it really get worse. We do know however that electricity prices will continue to rise.

What I come across almost on an everyday basis, is that the customer says "There would be a lot more incentive to go for solar if there was still 66c FiT". Truth is of course there would be more incentive to do so, but regardless of 66c or 8c, you are still saving a huge amount of money over the life of a system, the total payback subjective to every households electricity habits may make a very small difference in payback period with todays tariffs compared to those tariffs of a few years ago. The fact that the market has gone completely quiet here in VIC just tells us that everyone believes that there is no payback for solar at all.

I mean, really, it still has a payback period. There are very few investments you can make for your home that have a payback, surely solar should still be seen as attractive because there is still so much benefit from going solar?


If people must know I was told a few new insights into the industry at the moment, that because Solar has become so affordable as of this year, the STC multiplier may be dropping earlier than June 30 (to a 1x multiplier), or potentially even lower. Which means if solar seems unattractive at the moment, it sure isn't going to be getting any better.

It really is an industry that due to huge incentives in the past, it is seen as no longer attractive with the current incentives in place. But it isn't going to get better. The earlier everyone decides to go solar, the better off they will be. Sure they won't have it as good as someone who bought a system two years ago, but you'll sure as anything be better off than someone who buys a system two years from now.


And yes because of how quiet is has become, we have been inundated with people whose jobs have been made redundant in the industry, and I potentially may no longer have a job by the end of the week :( I just wish that people really believed in solar like I do and see that it really is worthwhile