Australia housing bubble

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Wasn't as easy buying and selling property back in 'the good old days' that some would have you believe...less than 2 minutes, good for a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHtDJ7GnjQY

I can never embed these things *sigh*

Reminds me of the time when there were two town houses going for auction around the corner a year ago. Lots of asians and indians went through during open inspection. Bloke across the road was anglo. Came auction day, he took a chair, sat next to the auctioneer, holding the aussie flag. In the end, an asian bought one and an indian bought the other

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Itsme

You are not the only one who was grown up in a poor persons enviroment as I certainly did with many siblings, I lived on hand me downs and went without a lot of things in life but I believe in capitalism where you get off your *** and make a go working hard and striving for what you want in life.
Hate to say champ but investment in housing is one of them and I do not begrudge anyone. I'm all for anyone making a better life for themselves.

You have my deepest sympathy, if you think it's about how many properties and toys and money you have when you die, if you really think that's what life is all about, then I feel sorry for you and others like you, what a very blinkered existence.

[MITCHAY]

This thread was started not long before I bought my house. I'd been searching for quite a while passing over properties which had good potential before you get some experience.

I only got mine because of that, I saw potential in what it could be and not what it was. I know others who are still looking including a work mate who looked at the same house I bought and didn't even offer.

Interest rates are better for sure but because of the growth instead of building equity they now have reduced options or and/or paying more like it ended up being for me.

As far as house prices are concerned, the only thing you get from looking back is a sore neck

I'm ideologically opposed to people building wealth this way with existing stock but I don't hate the player or even hate the game as I would say.

Life is a lot easier if you deal with reality than what you want it to be. There is no incentive for politicians to make this better since they are into it themselves. Hoping for better won't change anything.

In the interest of disclosure I did live at home while I saved up but I also paid my way. Too many don't use this to their advantage.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

This thread was started not long before I bought my house. I'd been searching for quite a while passing over properties which had good potential before you get some experience.

I only got mine because of that, I saw potential in what it could be and not what it was. I know others who are still looking including a work mate who looked at the same house I bought and didn't even offer.

Interest rates are better for sure but because of the growth instead of building equity they now have reduced options or and/or paying more like it ended up being for me.

As far as house prices are concerned, the only thing you get from looking back is a sore neck

I'm ideologically opposed to people building wealth this way with existing stock but I don't hate the player or even hate the game as I would say.

Life is a lot easier if you deal with reality than what you want it to be. There is no incentive for politicians to make this better since they are into it themselves. Hoping for better won't change anything.

In the interest of disclosure I did live at home while I saved up but I also paid my way. Too many don't use this to their advantage.

amazing what can be achieved with application to the task at hand

congrats

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

amazing what can be achieved with application to the task at hand

congrats

I'm not pretending it is easy for everyone especially those who were not lucky enough to have what I did. But there are plenty that do and don't manage ****.

Even my mum says it is ****ed these days but there are plenty who don't fully apply themselves.

Funnily enough she is a boomer who bought an investment property to top up her retirement which is a flop and she won't get **** from it

I live on the **** end of Canberra which is probably not as bad a deal as other cities but that is the trade off.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

You have my deepest sympathy, if you think it's about how many properties and toys and money you have when you die, if you really think that's what life is all about, then I feel sorry for you and others like you, what a very blinkered existence.

So whats it all about then? I strive (like most) to provide for my offspring. Funnily enough Property is the best investment you can get. For some reason, i feel your post is saying that none of this matters.

please explain.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

You have my deepest sympathy, if you think it's about how many properties and toys and money you have when you die, if you really think that's what life is all about, then I feel sorry for you and others like you, what a very blinkered existence.

Billy,

When I’m looking over lake Como at breakfast deciding if it’s Russian or Hungarian caviar that’s on my toast I’ll reflect on my investment sins and remember your sage words about how unhappy I am.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by leesa

Hoarding a limited resource

please explain this bit.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

You have my deepest sympathy, if you think it's about how many properties and toys and money you have when you die, if you really think that's what life is all about, then I feel sorry for you and others like you, what a very blinkered existence.

I'm not a materialistic person as you think in fact far from it, you come in this world with nothing and you will leave with nothing.
My reasoning is if you are prepared to make sacrifices and work hard you can achieve most things you desire, not whinging about how life owes you a living. Cold hard facts but true. I don't need yours or anyone else's sympathy.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by leesa

Housing isn't really an unlimited resource.

quoting you above in bold.
Yes it is.
whilst people walk the earth, houses will be built to accommodate.
Living within your means is the key.
We cant all live on beachfront and walk to work, You do what you need to do.

I think the thread title needs to have the "bubble" bit taken out of it.

[Syndrome]

Any chances of the bubble bursting is now over as the inflation genie has finally been released from the bottle. 13 years of loose monetary policies was always going to result in what is coming.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Any chances of the bubble bursting is now over as the inflation genie has finally been released from the bottle. 13 years of loose monetary policies was always going to result in what is coming.

Depends...

What's that property mob in China called? Evergrand or something?

They owe hundreds of billions to creditors and it looks like they will collapse.

Couple of weeks ago another Chinese property group defaulted owing over $200 million.

Most of our borrowed money comes from international markets.

Corona didn't work out so lets just crash the money markets...

What was that phrase they used before, when another country we rely on sneezes we catch a cold?

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by leesa

Hi Craig.
Can I ask what it is that you desire and see for your future? And what having an investment property will do for your future that you wouldn't otherwise have? Is it being able to support a family, put kids through school, take holidays each year? Is it that none of that is achievable on a wage/salary, or do you desire something for your future beyond what a salary can provide?

I want financial freedom. I want to live without worrying about a pension. I want to go to the shops and buy the best of the food. I want to not be worried about getting sick because I can afford the care.

I don’t want to rely on anyone for anything. I don’t want to be a bitter old man wishing I tried harder when I was younger. Wishing that I took a risk.

Mostly. I want to holiday. I don’t want to be stuck in a house watching tv like so many oldies


Also a little about me and my wife. I’m a construction manager. Catherine is a director at a law firm. Both of us have never stopped educating ourselves and working hard. I’m not the smartest bloke in the world but I give it my all. Catherine on the other hand is one of the smartest and an even hard worker. We don’t waste money but we also don’t go with out or miss out on what I see as necessary

Mum works for a book company. Dad was a printer

Mil never worked. Fil is a mechanic.

Never had a hand out or spoon in our mouths

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

...I don’t want to be a bitter old man wishing I tried harder when I was younger. Wishing that I took a risk...

This. They reckon on your death bed, most regret what they did not do, not what they did.

If this whole buying investment properties is just a recent thing from last couple of decades, why is the game Monopoly turning 117 years old? Can't afford Mayfair, but I'm going to get Old Kent Rd and put a medi-hotel on it.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by leesa

If you don't feel that your salary can support you achieving all these things then why isn't the conversation about wage growth increasing at a sustainable rate?

A stable job or career should be able to provide everyone with financial freedom, accumulated superannuation so as not to rely on a pension, being able to go to the shops and buying nice food and access to private health.
All of those things should be obtainable by someone who puts in a good day's work. The answer (IMPO) shouldn't be to do what we've done to the housing industry, this isn't going to end well for the country.

How's globalisation looking about now? Our country would benefit from going back to self-sufficiency and manufacturing should be fired back up. For all of that to happen we need even factory workers to earn a living wage, and a living wage includes the ability to buy a house and support starting a family.

Noone's future should have to rely on getting on a ladder.

Honestly. Half of what you write I agree with. The other half I just can’t be bothered.

If you are happy where you are at life and don’t want the cream that giving it a crack can do then thats on you. Cheer up and move on and care less what others do.

We live in a country that can be what ever you make it. It’s not a dictatorship. If the world didn’t have people pushing forward and trying to be better than what they were given we wouldn’t have left the trees.

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

I don’t want to rely on anyone for anything.

Thats the line.
How you do it? Up to you, but this is where you need to be, or aim for.

[MITCHAY]

Again you can live in a ideal world that doesn't exist or the real world.

The real world is I bought my house for $430k in 2017 and I reckon I could ask at a stretch for $700k right now no worries.

I'm living in this place posting this **** on my unlimited NBN after many beers and owning nearly 40% of it. All the people who were looking for a bargain are ****ed

I worried about it a lot but once I jumped in I just don't give a **** until I have to

[oldel]

This is pointless because the 'haves' believe in the "just world" fallacy and think they worked harder. You won't convince them otherwise.
The poor, the younger generations, homeless or unemployed don't work hard enough you see. Everyone should fight each other for the crumbs, they did and won.

Turn off social media and read a book. i recommend cav's "Fun Fear and Frivolity".

Lots of good stuff to read rather than spending too much time on forums or social media. Most literary classics are free to get. (E: I got about 80 last week).
Read a book or swing a spanner; most other things online are all doom and gloating, too much of the worst of people are all you get online these days.

[jstanovic]

I don't want to work until I'm 65, I've got better things to do with my time which is why we invested in property. We busted our chops for 10 years to set ourselves up, now our kids are primary school aged and still enjoy spending time with us so I would rather spend my time doing stuff with them than working. Buying and selling our rental allowed us to do this. Whether or not someone else missed out on buying a house or not was not a consideration at all.

[buggerlugs]

Just be thankful we live in a place called Australia instead of the likes of somewhere like Afghanistan . Then you would have something to complain about.........

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Any chances of the bubble bursting is now over as the inflation genie has finally been released from the bottle. 13 years of loose monetary policies was always going to result in what is coming.

It will burst in a bag way if we see successive rate rises over a short period. There's inflation, but not in wages, it's in goods because producer prices are what's going up.

[GO FURTHER]

With rising property prices, pricing many first home buyers out of the market, especially younger couples, it's time to think outside the square.

For example...

Two couples (that are friends and can get along), get together and build a home that is designed as "dual accommodation".

Ownership as joint tenants or tenants in common.

That $700,000 land house package... Now becomes $350K per couple.

One block of land, half the deposit required each, 50% mortgage repayments for each couple, 50% each in utility costs, council and water rates, insurance, etc. Thus allowing each couple to save even more, for their own home later.

Not the ideal living solution of course, but a way to at least get a foot into the market.

Then sell a few years down the track, and use the capital gains to hopefully afford a place of their own.

I'm surprised, that property developers have not started to look at designing and offering more dual accommodation floor plans, and marketed this solution.

[slowsnake]

I know a family in Sydney's Western suburbs who did that, but a brother and sister bought 2 sise by side blocks, built 2 duplexes and each lived in one and rented the other 2 which paid for them both, that was 10 years ago, they took the 2 adjoining duplexes and had it unfenced so they had one combined backyard!

Good idea too!
Plus you keep an eye on your investment!....

[b0son]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

I'm surprised, that property developers have not started to look at designing and offering more dual accommodation floor plans, and marketed this solution.

They have. Check out how many granny flats are for sale or for rent nowadays. Around here people are paying a premium for 450m2+ blocks with wide frontage specifically to be able to do this.

[BENT_8]

My Son built his first house on a single retail salespersons wage 18 months ago so its still easily doable.
Sure its in a lower class area and only a townhouse so no real land but what 21yo wants to do gardening anyway.
It was never meant to be a forever home but makes an ideal stepping stone.
Costs him $260pw in repayments, what he saves in living and working 40 minutes from Adelaide he uses for holidaying when/where possible.

The design he chose has 2bdrms each with its own ensuite, the long term plan is to use the equity to build in a better location and rent the rooms out to overseas students.

It can be done but comes with sacrifice

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by leesa View Post
If you don't feel that your salary can support you achieving all these things then why isn't the conversation about wage growth increasing at a sustainable rate?

Leesa, I've been Self Employed since the Age of 23. No compulsory Super contributions for Me..
I've had to do It All Myself.. As a result of My having the foresight to have;

1) a Long range plan.
2) the self Discipline to see It through. I now have. A reasonable Property & Share Portfolio. That should enable Us to have a self Funded Retirement without been a burden to the taxpayers of Australia..

If Not for our Investment Properties. (that you so clearly disapprove of) We'd end up In a Renter relying on Rent assistance & the Old age Pension, to Live...

I'm pretty sure We've more productive members of Society & a lessor burden to the Govt that the Guys who've spent their Lives ****ing it up the wall..

Originally Posted by hayseed

Leesa, I've been Self Employed since the Age of 23. No compulsory Super contributions for Me..

That should enable Us to have a self Funded Retirement without been a burden to the taxpayers of Australia..

If Not for our Investment Properties. (that you so clearly disapprove of) We'd end up In a Renter relying on Rent assistance & the Old age Pension, to Live...

Superannuation isn't a burden to the taxpayers of australia, it's a percentage of your own salary that is withheld by your employer and put in an account for you to access later in life. It is intended to be exactly the opposite of a burden on taxpayers. No different to setting aside 10% of your salary for those who were around prior to the introduction of superannuation.

I'm not sure how not having investment properties results in you being a renter and relying on the old age pension, my entire point is that if housing isn't used as investment then it would be affordable for anyone on even a modest wage. There wouldn't be a reliance on rent assistance and old age pensions to have a house to live in.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by leesa

I'm not sure how not having investment properties results in you being a renter and relying on the old age pension.

\/\/\/ Read(& Comprehend) this Bit \/\/\/

Originally Posted by hayseed

Leesa, I've been Self Employed since the Age of 23. No compulsory Super contributions for Me..

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

\/\/\/ Read(& Comprehend) this Bit \/\/\/

I think what Leesa is saying is that the option to make a self contributiin to a super fund was there, but the choice was made to invest in property instead.
Or, that money could have been invested in non essential areas.
Whilst i fully support the ability for people to enter the housing market for owner occupier reasons, it would be a lot easier if housing wasnt used as a wealth building tool where those lucky enough to have benefitted from the last 25yrs of extraordinary growth have artificially inflated the market.

Whilst a portfolio will support retirement, its also the reason a can of coke costs $3.50 and a coffee $6, neither are really worth that, its relevant to inflation of perceived wealth but thats affordable to people in that position, however the price isnt specific to people with investment properties.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

With rising property prices, pricing many first home buyers out of the market, especially younger couples, it's time to think outside the square.

For example...

Two couples (that are friends and can get along), get together and build a home that is designed as "dual accommodation".

Ownership as joint tenants or tenants in common.

That $700,000 land house package... Now becomes $350K per couple.

One block of land, half the deposit required each, 50% mortgage repayments for each couple, 50% each in utility costs, council and water rates, insurance, etc. Thus allowing each couple to save even more, for their own home later.

Not the ideal living solution of course, but a way to at least get a foot into the market.

Then sell a few years down the track, and use the capital gains to hopefully afford a place of their own.

I'm surprised, that property developers have not started to look at designing and offering more dual accommodation floor plans, and marketed this solution.

The main issue with deals like this is finance and legals. Youd think only having 50% of the debt means 50% of the risk, but if one couple stops paying or splits up, the bank is still going to want 100% of the weekly payment from the remaining party, they can’t repossess half a house.