All things Solar (merged threads)

[xisled]

Solar like most things people think it is a scam.

I don’t see solar making a huge impact on the environment and below is reason why IMO.

Carbon Tax, you still pay carbon tax even if you have solar. You get solar to help the environment, but still get slugged the tax.

The power still comes from the same wire, if you have to use power from the grid, you are still using coal power.

The CO2 emissions it takes to produce the products for the solar system, solar panels, inverter and such. This is very high.


Another thing that I see is when people fall for the Green Electricity plans retailers sell. They advertise as Green Power (all retailers have different names) and the power is sourced from renewable energy sources.

The funny thing is, the power we get comes on the same wire as someone who does not have Green Power. So how do these sell this as sourced from renewable energy sources.

[poppa smurf]

to answer to all these statements you must first understand the system.......

I export roughly twice as much as I import.....some days much more

once the footprint of the production of panels has been overcome, in my case roughly 2 months, then the carbon footprint of solar for the expected lifespan of 25 years is NIL

solar and wind power production reduced the need for coal fired generation in south australia by as much as 50% last year and is set to increase in the near future.......rolling blackouts in other states were avoided also

oh! I just checked my sunny beam monitor......over 6,000 kilograms of Co2 avoided

have you figured this into your emission planning.......

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by xisled

Solar like most things people think it is a scam.

The scam here is that imported solar panels chage the importers such a huge tax that by the time the solar panels have reached Australia, they are about 35% more expensive than the country of origin. This is the reason why as rebates drop, import taxes drop; the cost of solar panels if about 355 lower without taxes which ironically go towards STC rebates; the government is not paying for any rebates out of their own pocket however it seems like they are.

Originally Posted by xisled

I don’t see solar making a huge impact on the environment and below is reason why IMO.

Carbon Tax, you still pay carbon tax even if you have solar. You get solar to help the environment, but still get slugged the tax.

Carbon tax or no carbon tax, for example a 5kW solar PV system ninstalled in suburban Melbourne will eliminate 9.44 tonnes of greenhouse gases annually; that is regardless of taxes, regardless of rebates or feed in tariffs, as systems are with or without rebates or taxes, they will still produce free electricity from the sun. An old welsh salesman once said to me, "You can rely on solar power just as much as you can rely on the sun rising every morning".

Originally Posted by xisled

The power still comes from the same wire, if you have to use power from the grid, you are still using coal power.

This is the popular way of doing solar because it has a better return on investment. You don't want to use grid power, then there are off grid systems widely available; in fact our electrician just installed an off grid system on his property in Daylesford for far more than what a grid connected system would cost, on the basis that he did not want to be drawing grid power at night.

Originally Posted by xisled

The CO2 emissions it takes to produce the products for the solar system, solar panels, inverter and such. This is very high.

Please, do your research as most people don't. This is subjective to each manufacturer. Have a look at this here:

http://solarscorecard.com/2012/

Here, the worlds largest Pv manufacturers have their manufacturing, transport, and recyclable elements rated and compared against one another. What these scores from 0-100 are rated on, is just how carbon nautral the manufacturers are; so essentially, a manufacturer with a score of zero does absolutely nothing at all to offset any carbon or take measures to produce less carbon, whereas a manufacturer with a perfect score takes into consideration absolutely everything to do with the manufacturing, transport, power production and even how recyclable every component of a panel is.

Another point to considerwhen comparing panels; one panel may be cheaper, but chances are it isn't recyclable and probably poisoned a family using the river water downstream from the factory; whereas a panel may be more expensive, but may offer PVCYCLE; a free service whereas in 25 years time, your are offered to have your panels removed free of charge, where they are recycled and remanufactured into brand new solar panels.

Originally Posted by xisled

Another thing that I see is when people fall for the Green Electricity plans retailers sell. They advertise as Green Power (all retailers have different names) and the power is sourced from renewable energy sources.

The funny thing is, the power we get comes on the same wire as someone who does not have Green Power. So how do these sell this as sourced from renewable energy sources.

Depends on who you go for as some people have exploited this in the past. A victorian energy supplier went into administration because they were offering customers Greenpower; Greenpower in fact being a subsidiary of a coal fired power station (similar to the McDolands 100% Aussie beef scandal, 100% aussie beef being the name of a farm in Malaysia), hereby misleading the customers, making them believe they were buying greenpower simply because of the name.

Red Energy puts 100% of their markup into investments in wind farms, a more recent wind farm being installed in Victorias Alpine Region. The power generated from the wind farm in turn contributes to areas such as Bright, and Mt Beauty. When enough people invest in GreenPower, wind farms will be able to be installed closer to major cities (also fingers crossed no one complains about wind turbines being eyesores, those are the kinds of people that complain about faded curtains because of daylight savings and such).



Interestingly I may have mentioned some pages back, the Carbon Tax is actually a scam rather than anything else. Australia's largest polluters are being given a total of $5.5 billion in free carbon production, including power stations here in Victoria such as Hazelwood and Yallourn. What people must come to realise is that these additional charges appearing on our power bills is not because of an extra charge because of what taxes these power stations are paying, it is because we are made to believe that they have these extra charges; and those extra charges we are paying is going 100% into profitability of these coal mines, and mining bigwigs.

Here are some references:

http://environmentvictoria.org.au/fossilfuelsubsidies

http://www.acfonline.org.au/sites/de...es_25-6-10.pdf

http://climatechangesocialchange.wor...rading-scheme/


So Solar is not a scam. Prices drop because as rebates drop so do taxes. Solar as an entire industry is not to blame for polluting manufacturers, poor education and irresponsibility or select manufacturers is to blame.

Regardless of rebates, feed in tariffs, taxes, absolutely ANYTHING to do with the monetary side of solar power does not affect in any way, shape, or form, the power production and carbon offset of a system.

GreenPower is not a scam, GreenPower is an investment into large scale commercial renewable energy poewr stations to help Australia reach its 20% renewable energy target by 2020.


Please, do some research.

[xisled]

The reason I say most people think solar is a scam, is a lot of solar companies take customer for a ride. They can see people who have no idea about solar and rip them off.

I see this on a daily basis. Speaking to a customer who thinks they got a 5kw system, when all they get is a 5kw inverter with 1.5kw of panels.

I speak to customers about solar every day. I would say between 10 to 20 customers a day about getting the solar meter installed. Most have no idea what they have got installed. For some reason people send invoices through to me and I can see the cost of the installs.

Had once recently, customer spent $6500 on a 1.5kw system. Solar company said it was a 5kw system. All they got was a 5kw inverter and 8 200 watt panels. I went through and when I said your system is 1.6kw they were shocked.

[poppa smurf]

ah! now that is a totally different scenario than the one you painted earlier.......this comes under the heading of "buyer beware" and is one of the reasons I started this thread

solar is not nor has it ever been a scam but there are unscrupulous people out there who take advantage of gullible folks in solar as with everything

I have been screaming from the top of my lungs from day one for folks to get information and gain a reasonable amount of knowledge before committing to such a large purchase such as solar represents

benefits are present but only under the right circumstances.....the right circumstances can only be seen given the knowledge to recognise them, ........knowledge can only be gained by studying before purchase

solar, as with all large purchases, should be an informed decision and not one made because fred down the back is happy with his

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by xisled

The reason I say most people think solar is a scam, is a lot of solar companies take customer for a ride. They can see people who have no idea about solar and rip them off.

I see this on a daily basis. Speaking to a customer who thinks they got a 5kw system, when all they get is a 5kw inverter with 1.5kw of panels.

I speak to customers about solar every day. I would say between 10 to 20 customers a day about getting the solar meter installed. Most have no idea what they have got installed. For some reason people send invoices through to me and I can see the cost of the installs.

Had once recently, customer spent $6500 on a 1.5kw system. Solar company said it was a 5kw system. All they got was a 5kw inverter and 8 200 watt panels. I went through and when I said your system is 1.6kw they were shocked.

That does not mean solar is a scam, that means that the business are scammers; and sadly these scamming businesses have given you the opinion that the solar industry as a whole is a scam, as there are clearly a VERY large number of these sorts of solar companies in existence.

Notable companies with notable scams that I am aware of are:

True Value Solar; mentioned earlier in this thread, they have changed their business name FOUR times since beginning trading. Every time they have changed their business name, all of their previous customers have invalid warranties and most of these customers are unaware of this action as they did not communicate this to any previous customers.

They are also the company with the ads "8 panels with MASSIVE 5kW upgradeable inverter!" no mention of the power produced by each panel but with an emphasis on the size of the inverter. This is misleading to many customers quite obviously.

Australian Solar Buying Group; Most recently gone into afministration; searching through the ABR it was found that they had been trading earlier as Monash Insulation and many of their insulation installations had started house fires. Lord knows how many other solar companies used to be doing insulation.

http://www.smh.com.au/small-business...0208-nmio.html

To me still, it is a mystery why people part with many thousands of dollars without doing any research; they look for the best price. And obviously many get burned and begin telling their neighbours "why solar is a scam".


This is also the reason why I am looking down the barrel of being laid off again; because sadly it is true, that the majority of people who buy solar do not do enough research to make an educated decision. No matter how hard I try, no matter my reasoning and explanations to customers against such deals and elaborating why those specials are in fact not a 5kW system, the majority of people I speak to only see the bottom line. Regardless of how many panels, regardless of how much of their power bill will decrease (or increase in some cases), and it obviously becomes very trying. Peopoe need to do so much more research that its not funny

[Stagg]

If I were to make a few steps to look at when purchasing solar:

Step 1: Research should start with looking at product reviews BEFORE calling a solar company.

There are a lot of online forums with solar info, look at the age of the threads, and rather than making decisions based on country of origin of components, look at the companies, chinese or not chinese.

Step 2: Develop a list of components that you will only accept quotes on.

For someone in the industry such as myself, I might have a list that look like this:

PANELS: Suntech, SunPower, Trina, Yingli. This would be on a basis of how long these brands have been around, environmental benefits that each panel has, the backup that each panel has, and the performance each panel has, and I would compare them BEFORE comaring prices.

INVERTERS: SMA, Evershine, Aurora This is on a basis of failure rates of these inverters compared to other brands, and again performance and how long they have been around BEFORE comparing the price.

Step 3: Google search your particular brand of panels/inverter and who installs the selected products in your city.

You are now comparing quotes MUCH more fairly in this case and you are educated enough to know what you are looking for. It makes comparing much easier, because if one company may be $1000 cheaper than the other company, you are comparing apples with apples, instead of comparing a high quality panel with a heap of child labour quality components (which can and does happen by the way

Step 4: Ask those suppliers to provide an abundance of images of installs from the particular installer that they would use for your install.

May seem a bit padantic, but it would definitely be worth it IMO. Any reputable installer will have plenty of pictures available of their installations and should be obliging to provide such images; I quite often offer to my customers to provide images of our installations to my customers, from particular installers we would use specifically to their job.

This step will give you a clear indication of the level of workmanship you will expect from the installation once it is completed, instead of waiting until you have signed up with someone, before finding that the reason they were cheaper was because of their workmanship.


Step 5: Compare the quotes on their components, AND their workmanship.

You now have enough information to equally, fairly and knowledgeably compare quotes to each other. Lets say here is an example:

You are comparing two quotes with one another, both using Suntech and SMA for a 5kW system.

Hmmm, well let's see... Solar mob #1 has a price of $12000 and Solar mob #2 has a price of $10000.

Solar mob #1 has been around for about ten years, I wonder if they have been installing these panels for ten years? If they have then I would guess they're pretty happy with these panels and they keep selling because they haven't had many problems for ten years.

They sent me photos from the installer (Let's say Matt), and he's done a very clean job here on another one of their jobs. He's hidden all the wires around the inverter, kept it out of sight, and the sales guy and I spoke about the position of the inverter.

Solar mob #2 costs less, but the company has been around about three years and used to install different panels before these ones. I wonder why they stopped selling the other brand of panels, what problems did they have?

He also said that because they use contractor installers he didn't have any photos of any installations available; but that said, they are using the same components as Solar mob #1 which I know are good components... Why is there a difference of $2000? My first assumption is they are just making an extra profit, but maybe I should call them and ask further questions!

Step 6: Call your TOP THREE companies after you have studied each of the quotes.

From this step onwards, it is subjective to the particular products you have used. Think of reasons OTHER than profit, as to why there is a price difference of $2000.

On the phone to Solar Mob #1

"Hey guys, so I got another quote for the same components for $2k less. Why are you guys more expensive?" (This is where in my job it can really be a make or break by the way lol)

"We are aware that we are more expensive than our competitors. The reason we are is that we buy from importers right here in Australia, who are the warranty base for the panels. We also however look after any after sales care. In the event that you have a panel or inverter failure, or any failure in that sense, you call us and we will take care of it for you; as we make monthly product recalls with the importer. This means that you have a very speedy after sales service, and we look after all the future paperwork after we have solved your dilemma."

On the phone to solar mob #2

"Hey guys. So I'm interested to know why you are cheaper than another company I have got a quote off, why are you cheaper?"

"We buy direct from the manufacturer for all our components, to keep the price down. We know that people want good quality systems at a good price so we do our best to give you the best deal"

^^ Now I may seem a bit biased here but a lot of companies import direct; buyer beware this means that for any warranty issues you have to call the factory direct which more often than not is in China!!


Now this is something that buyers are allowed to do, which is to squeeze us sleazy sales guys and make us sharpen our pencil, but if I was buying a system it is EXACTLY what I would do


On the phone to Solar mob #1 "I'm going to email you through a quote I have received from another company, if you can price match, I will pay you a deposit"

(NOTE: Saying you will pay a deposit to price match is exactly how us sales guys know someone is serious; that is if you are serious though).


If they can price match, they will. Congratulations, you just got a premium 5kW system for a good price, with awesome after sales care.

If they cannot price match, just tell them to do the best they can. Some companies might drop the price by $1000, some by $500, some won't drop it at all. More often than not to get a system across the line, the sales guy will drop his price.









This is the sort of process I would go through if I was someone looking at buying a system. Educate yourself, know what you are comparing, think outside of the factors of just price and how much "profit" solar mobs are making, and squeeze that sales guy for everything that he's got!

[Stagg]

Also, just as long as I'm giving people all the transparent information I can, I quite often get my panels compared to Canadian Solar, and German Solar.

I also get SMA inverters compared to SMA because apparently Diehl Ako inverters are German.



Canadian Solar, factories located across China

http://www.canadiansolar.com/en/our-...manufacturing/


German solar, no factories located in Germany

http://energy.sourceguides.com/busin.../mfg/mfg.shtml

Diehl Ako inverters, no factories located in Germany

http://energy.sourceguides.com/busin...t/invert.shtml


Currently, the only panels available in Australia from Germany are Bosch, and the only inverters are SMA.

[Captain Stubing]

I'm loving the bit I'm doing for my wallet's environment - got my first full 3 monthly bill with the smart meter.

I was a bit worried that Qld hasn't seen much in the way of sunlight these past weeks, but even cloudy days still generate power from through the clouds. I still ended up using more than I generated, by 90kWh.

But for the 3 month period I generated 901kWh, with a FIT of 50c, and what I did use from the grid I only paid 23c/kWh so I ended up with a credit of $214. Happy days!

[davenl5l]

i did my research with a lot of help from this thread(thanks poppa) so no scam and no bill's very happy indeed . also more solar would mean less ugly wind farms!!!!!!!!

[poppa smurf]

mate you've made my day....not for the praise (although it is appreciated) but in that you did your homework, went in with eyes wide open and came up with a workable solution to an expensive investment and in the end had a very happy outcome......thats all I ask

Stagg has placed a very good post at 1747......I strongly urge anyone to print it out and hang it on their shed wall and study it everyday in order to soak in what is being said in such an understandable manner before purchasing solar

this will save a lot of heartache in the future from a bad investment

I havent had the time nor the thought process to do a write up but if I did I could not have improved on it.....well done

information is king in solar........

if considering solar never be afraid to ask for advice......someone will know something or be able to point you in the right direction

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by davenl5l

i did my research with a lot of help from this thread(thanks poppa) so no scam and no bill's very happy indeed . also more solar would mean less ugly wind farms!!!!!!!!

i gotta to agree this site helped me alot when choosing mine and was a bigger help when it came to fixing my problem ...i felt nothing but love here

and what stagg said ...that was a huge help when it came time to buy my system

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stagg

True Value Solar; mentioned earlier in this thread, they have changed their business name FOUR times since beginning trading. Every time they have changed their business name, all of their previous customers have invalid warranties and most of these customers are unaware of this action as they did not communicate this to any previous customers.

They are also the company with the ads "8 panels with MASSIVE 5kW upgradeable inverter!" no mention of the power produced by each panel but with an emphasis on the size of the inverter. This is misleading to many customers quite obviously.

most warranties are via the manufacturer, so yes, if i have a problem i will be chasing someone offshore if the local mob go bust, but there is still a warranty. they have also recently affiliated themselves with AGL. based ont he fact that they are the largest installer of solar panels by some margin, and the price is great for those who aren't on a large income i decided to take a chance and go with them.

yes there is a lot of negative feedback, but how many people take the time to leave feedback after a good news story??? the is always gone to be an overrepresentation of nagativity.

sure, the company has changed names, but its probably no different to a company that has not changed names but has changed owners multiple times and continues trading under the same name. whatever, i'm not too fussed.

yes, their advertising can be misleading but its not like they are alone in that regard.

i should take some photos but my system is one of the neatest installs i have seen, including pictures in this thread. no hanging wires on to tiles, no dodgily placed wires under tiles into roof cavity, no messy inverter install etc etc. its all mickey mouse.

so for $6K I got a 3.8kw system (5kw inverter, whoop de doo) and its been faultess from the get go. no complaints regarding service or anything. communication has been fantastic, it was installed inside their estimated 12 weeks (8 weeks) and smart meter was only a few weeks later. the whole process has been seamless and i am extremely happy so far.

this is not to say that they are the best or even in the top 10 etc. its just highlighting that if you ask the right questions and do the research yourself, it can still have a happy ending. i have read through most of the feedback regarding TVS online and haven't had one single similar issue. a lot of the time i feel that you get treated the way you treat others.

my sunbeam em6910 espresso machine also gets poor reviews but it is one also a very good machine. don't always go by the negative reviews online. it came highly recommended by a family member. similarly, my neighbour went with TVS about 6-12months prior to me and i used his first hand feedback. worth more to me than any online rant.

i appreciate the feedback from those in the industry so don't take it to heart if i have some opposing views. i have also been in to shops that poo poo products that they don't sell.

just some feedback from a TVS customer. sure, its only a few months old, but most of the negative feedback is about the early part of the process (buying and install).

anyways, i'm off to continue enjoying my holiday in sunny queensland

[V8XTasy]

Originally Posted by Stagg

An old welsh salesman once said to me, "You can rely on solar power just as much as you can rely on the sun rising every morning".

Agree, solar power is excellent, I only have a small 750W system which I set up as I'm renting, it charges batteries and generates 4KW per day, which is about 50% of what I use. I don't pay carbon tax on the grid electricity as it is also from solar power and happens to be the cheapest too. I take about 4KW from the grid each day recently as we have the aircon on in the evening. We're a family of 4 and the wife and 1 kid are home most of the day.

Your quote above made me laugh though, especially from a Welsh man. Being from Wales, he should definately know that even if the sun rises every day, you can't neccessarily see it, which is about 95% of the time in Wales. If it's covered by cloud, solar panels don't generate much at all, perhaps 10% of a sunny day.

So although the sun does rise every morning, you can't generate sufficient solar power every day, particularly in Wales! LOL

[rancidpunx]

My client today had a 15kw system. 3x5kw inverters and 48 panels cost him 80k 2 years ago.

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

My client today had a 15kw system. 3x5kw inverters and 48 panels cost him 80k 2 years ago.

Woah@@@@!!

todays installed price would be around the $35,000 mark - for premium brand SMA/Trina gear too.

[Bundy]

Infinity Solar fitted my 4.2kw system, 16 x 255w Q cell panels and a Sunnyboy inverter.
Not the dearest, not the cheapest & I'm very happy with the quality of the install.

Did my research and didn't rush in with buy now deals and deadlines.
All up the process took me about 9 months from start to finish.

[poppa smurf]

Hmmm! ........9 months, I grizzled because mine took around four months.....ah well, its there and producing now!

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by bundy

Infinity Solar fitted my 4.2kw system, 16 x 255w Q cell panels and a Sunnyboy inverter.
Not the dearest, not the cheapest & I'm very happy with the quality of the install.

Did my research and didn't rush in with buy now deals and deadlines.
All up the process took me about 9 months from start to finish.

Q Cells and SMA? Good system that one would be!!

I wasn't sure if I had posted this late last year or not, but on Christmas Eve, SMA actually bought majority share in Chinese inverter company Ever Solar; as they had seen them as the only real Chinese competitor. Interestingly as all inverters have a failure rate from new (SMA is about 3% of all inverters), Ever Solar has a lower failure rate again of about 1%.

http://www.sma.de/en/media-newsroom/...chen-sola.html

It is also why I only trust Eversolar and Evershine inverters coming out of China; because they also now have the backing of SMA which in Australia, means no matter where you are in Australia, if you have a faulty inverter, it is repaired or replaced within 48 hours of the initial call being made; which is a service that no other company can offer.


Also, best to steer clear of a company called Scheuten Solar; as they are a European product, but proving to be a fire risk means that European panels does not necessarily mean quality.

http://www.pv-tech.org/news/fire_ris...m_medium=email


News for you guys if you need

[Stagg]

Here, just heard one of the sales guys in the office use this line because his customer was comparing us to TVS:

Yes I know they're cheaper, but they don't even tell you on the website what panels and inverter you are getting because it constantly changes. It's like going to buy a car and you ask the car salesman "how much is a car?" and when he says "$5000" and you buy a car, do you say "ok, now what have I just bought?

That's what it is like with True Value Solar, you know the price of the system but you have no idea what type of panels or inverter you are getting. Honestly, do you make any sort of multi thousand dollar investments without knowing what you are getting?

Honestly, I couldn't have said it better myself, had to share it here


Another interesting note which unfortunately does not have any website based references, we had a contractor installer approach us who has been working for TVS, and recently he has been given the news that there are over 200,000 solar panels that are not installed to Australian Standards; with issues like no conduit used on external or internal cables, tile brackets drilled through tiles to beams instead of slipped underneath, and also larger systems wired into one MPPT instead of spread over two. The reason for these dodgy installations was because for the TVS installs they were not using qualified electricians; rather they were using a team of 4 handymen and having an electrician signing off on each job, as opposed to a team of electricians completing the work. We did not offer him any work as he kind of shot himself in the foot when he said that he was using handymen instead of qualified electricians...

Again no references available for this one sorry as it was only yesterday afternoon that we were told this in person. Just another bit of news for everyone here

On that basis I believe that in the next few months, TVS will either be changing its business name again, thus voiding any warranties or after sales for existing TVS customers, or they will be going into voluntary administration completely. No one believes that they are going to go through the effort to use qualified electricians to re-install 200,000 solar panels!

[xisled]

Its not the first time this has happened. History repeats it self.

[SPArKy_Dave]

A mate of mine got sick of doing contract installs, so he became a sales guy for TVS.
He recently came looking for work with me, saying he was jumping ship from TVS.
(was a bit cagey on the details though)

Maybe Stagg's post is a possible reason?

[SPArKy_Dave]

However I find it difficult to believe they would muck up 200,000 solar panels....... (averaged out to 15,000 installations?)

I thought TVS got rid of all their installers, and started again, about 2 yrs ago?
Is the new problem just from the last two yrs?

Surely these issues wouldn't be in Vic, as the inspectors would pick up the problems from the get go........ (one would hope)

[prydey]

lets not tar everyone with the same brush. plenty of positive reviews out there. of course, when you are the largest solar installer in australia, there is always going to be a lot more feedback than any other. feedback is generally skewed in the negative as not many people take the time to leave feedback if they aren't having issues.

many positive reviews here
http://www.solarquotes.com.au/instal...ar-review.html

looking forward to my panels self destructing

when some people aren't having to pay off a mortgage and feed multiple mouths they don't understand that cost is a major factor, not some fuzzy feeling inside. better to buy a system you can afford and reduce your bills than not buy a system at all i say.

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by prydey

lets not tar everyone with the same brush. plenty of positive reviews out there. of course, when you are the largest solar installer in australia, there is always going to be a lot more feedback than any other. feedback is generally skewed in the negative as not many people take the time to leave feedback if they aren't having issues.

many positive reviews here
http://www.solarquotes.com.au/instal...ar-review.html

looking forward to my panels self destructing

when some people aren't having to pay off a mortgage and feed multiple mouths they don't understand that cost is a major factor, not some fuzzy feeling inside. better to buy a system you can afford and reduce your bills than not buy a system at all i say.

Dude, I hate to be the one that says it, but seriously, they are Australias biggest installer because they are the cheapest. I will keep trying to be transparent with information about solar, but I honestly will never be able to look at TVS as a reputable, trusted or reliable brand

[Stagg]

http://www.truevaluesolar.com.au/advice-faq/warranties/

Are all TVS customers made clearly aware that every two years a system must be serviced in order for all warranties to be valid? This charge is given at around the $220 mark.

They are the only brand which has mandatory servicing, and they also do not state what that service involves. However from inspectors we have been told that $220 involves a wipe down of the panels and a voltage check.

Over ten years, that makes a TVS system an extra $2200

[gtxb67]

we just got our first full term bill for our 3kw system
normally paying around $400
now they owe us $416
an $800 turnaround - the system could be paid off within 2 years

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stagg

Dude, I hate to be the one that says it, but seriously, they are Australias biggest installer because they are the cheapest. I will keep trying to be transparent with information about solar, but I honestly will never be able to look at TVS as a reputable, trusted or reliable brand

correct, so what does that tell you about the motivation to put solar panels on ones roof?? forget all the feel good enviro friendly who ha, its price that is the biggest factor for many people. not once have i said they are a market leader or among the best.

Originally Posted by Stagg

http://www.truevaluesolar.com.au/advice-faq/warranties/

Are all TVS customers made clearly aware that every two years a system must be serviced in order for all warranties to be valid? This charge is given at around the $220 mark.

They are the only brand which has mandatory servicing, and they also do not state what that service involves. However from inspectors we have been told that $220 involves a wipe down of the panels and a voltage check.

Over ten years, that makes a TVS system an extra $2200

i was made well aware of that cost and your maths isn't very good

the cost i was told includes checking all the bolts/fasteners etc.

as this isn't for another 18 months or so i'm not too worried as my system will have long died by then apparently.


by your logic, everyone should be driving around in mercedes benz cars or rolls royce etc rather than a vehicle that will do the job within ones budget.

if you can afford to go with a sma inverter and some u beaut panels, thats great, but surely someone who cares about the fuzzy side of the environment would be happy for people to put panels on their roof, regardless of where they come from.

[Scooter]

So has anyone got any recommendations or contacts for a good company in Perth?

[gtxb67]

when dealing with tvs, origin and the guy who installed ours, all of them told us exactly what we were going to get
a 3kw inverter and either 15 200watt panels or 12 250watt panels
unless they were lying about, they were not scamming us - perhaps people should ask some questions

the tvs adds are a little vague with their upgradable inverters, but they still state what panels the buyer will get - unless they are lying, i'd say, if the customer doesn't know what they have, then the blame rests with them
i wouldn't buy a car without being told what engine it has, so i surely wouldn't by a solar system without being told what i was getting