Covid 19 -

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I know, by the guidance provided by the Vic government, if I'm symptomatic and even though I may have a negative RAT result, I should still get a PCR test. But, with all of the delays in getting PCR tests completed and results returned, is there any point in going to get a PCR?

I would still get a PCR so it’s officially logged on your record if you are positive. I believe the advice if you have had COVID, that you should not get another vaccine dose for several months due to natural immunity. It may also be harsh on your body dealing with both in a short space of time. I’m not sure how they plan on dealing with that scenario if they remove the PCR requirement.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I hope bloody Djokovic gets wiped off the court like a dirty bum ASAP when the tennis starts ...Bloody disgrace Tennis Australia and whoever else allowed this . Not on . Covid is no joke but he is ..

why the anger at Djokavic? The decision was made by two independant panels and the submissions aren't named, so those on the panel don't know who they are providing exemption for.

I don't like Djoker either, but he isn't the first to enter australia this way and he won't be the last. He's just lucky enough to get his name in the headlines.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I hope bloody Djokovic gets wiped off the court like a dirty bum ASAP when the tennis starts ...Bloody disgrace Tennis Australia and whoever else allowed this . Not on . Covid is no joke but he is ..

As a Vic I was peeved when I first read it in the morning. But now thinking about it objectively, the problem lies with our own policy? ATAGI sets the criteria, he met the criteria....simple as that. How many people who meet the criteria actually bothered to apply and get knock back? I bet not many! He is a dick for tweeting it out though, a strange move for someone who constantly whinges about not being liked by the crowd.

Best thing he can do is reveal the exemption reason. That would save a lot of hassle. I'm betting he has had a bad reaction to a vaccine in the past, turned anti vax, and is using that as the justification. A bad reaction could cost him his livelihood, and in this case, tens of millions of $$$$. Who wants to be responsible for that and pay out the compensation?

I see the feds have now come out saying he will be sent home if he can't prove the reason for his exemption when he arrives. ATAGI is run by the Feds, seems like a lot of politics going on here.

[MITCHAY]

It may well be legit but you can forgive the general public for thinking this was doctor shopping at its best given the history behind it.

[Pooka]

Originally Posted by lucas2

I would still get a PCR so it’s officially logged on your record if you are positive. I believe the advice if you have had COVID, that you should not get another vaccine dose for several months due to natural immunity. It may also be harsh on your body dealing with both in a short space of time. I’m not sure how they plan on dealing with that scenario if they remove the PCR requirement.

Correct. Here's the list of reasons for a temporary exemption, taken from www.health.gov.au

ATAGI expanded guidance on acute major medical conditions that warrant a temporary medical exemption relevant for COVID-19 vaccines

Valid reasons for a temporary exemption include:

• For an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine:

• Inflammatory cardiac illness within the past 3 months, e.g., myocarditis or pericarditis; acute rheumatic fever or acute rheumatic heart disease (i.e., with active myocardial inflammation); or acute decompensated heart failure

• For all COVID-19 vaccines:

• Acute major medical condition (e.g. undergoing major surgery or hospital admission for a serious illness). Typically, these are time-limited conditions (or the medical treatment for them is time limited).
  
  
• PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection. Vaccination should be deferred for 90 days in people who have received anti-SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibody or convalescent plasma therapy.
  
  
• Any serious adverse event attributed to a previous dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, without another cause identified, and with no acceptable alternative vaccine available. For example a person <60 years of age, contraindicated to receive Pfizer vaccine and in whom the risks do not outweigh the benefits for receipt of AstraZeneca vaccine, is eligible for a temporary exemption.
  
  
• If the vaccinee is a risk to themselves or others during the vaccination process they may warrant a temporary vaccine exemption. This may include a range of individuals with underlying developmental or mental health disorders, but noting that non-pharmacological interventions can safely facilitate vaccination in many individuals with behavioural disturbances and that specialist services may be available to facilitate the safe administration of vaccines in this population.

I think Novax Djokovic's medical exemption falls under the "individuals with underlying developmental or mental health disorders" ruling as per the last point in the list above.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Pooka

Where did you purchase the 'Suresign' kit from? There is no 'Suresign' listed as one of the 160 kits approved for sale in Australia. There is a Suresign RAT kit, but it's NOT to be sold in Australia, so someone is doing a dodgy.

The Ecotest comes in 3 different kits. Two saliva and one nasal. Only one is on the TGA approval list.

• Ecotest COVID-19 Antigen Saliva Test Kit - This kit is TGA approved.
• Ecotest COVID-19 Antigen Nasal Test Kit
• Ecotest COVID-19 Antigen Saliva Test kit (COV-S35Pen)

Apologies, I meant Rightsign.

As for Ecotest, the TGA approved kit.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I might be wrong, but I'm going to take a punt and suggest that Bent meant the Rightsign brand, not Suresign, as is listed in the list you provided earlier, pooka.


Name: RightSign COVID-19 Antigen Rapid Test Cassette
Type: Nasal
Sensitivity: High
Variants detected: No evidence provided to TGA as of 21/12/2021

This is the brand my ex, who works in a local pharmacy, has been getting access to via staff discount and that I've been using.

Correct, my Daughter sourced it from a friend who's Mother works in a Pharmacy.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Pooka

I think Novax Djokovic's medical exemption falls under the "individuals with underlying developmental or mental health disorders" ruling as per the last point in the list above.

No shortage of people claiming 'anxiety' as an excuse not to vaccinate. Funny that they're not anxious about getting COVID...

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

No one I tell believes me when I say 4 of us spent the entire fortnight with a Covid positive person and didnt catch it, crazy when its supposedly spread so easily.

Yes I believe you. My family is all double vaccinated.

My daughter got covid -positive RAT and PCR Christmas eve.

Had to cancel a big family Christmas at our house and my wife and I isolated with Covid sick daughter at my house. When my daughter had complained about feeling sick and coughing leading up to Christmas eve I got a sore throat and had headaches and so got tested PCR- was negative.

After my daughter tested positive Christmas eve- my wife and I again got tested using both RATS and PCR some 5 days into quarantine-negative.

Came out of quarantine, daughter tested negative, and we had a big New Years eve family get together watching fireworks over Lake on balcony at my place. Big booze up- new years day my brother received a PCR -covid positive, so was my brother in law and niece- all who were at my place New Years eve.

So I again isolate and 3 January feel crook, coughing, night sweats and wake up at 3.30 am with heavy chest. Convinced I have covid, so my wife and I get PCR tested on 5 January- both negative.

All I know is that when I associate with covid people, get a bit crook for 1 day and night odd, but the RAT and PCR tests show negative- maybe psycho somatic (but I doubt that).

Buggered if I know- maybe I have had covid previously and/or the double vacced immunity causing a body reaction but immunity prevents virus taking hold- so little known about the virus in context of subjective individuals responses.

[FairmontGS]

Victoria has fewer COVID-19 cases than New South Wales, so why are more people dying?

An unfortunate reality for Victorians, which has puzzled many epidemiologists, is that their state has borne the brunt of the pandemic.

The same factors that have seen it record the greatest number of cases across Australia might also be contributing to its higher death rate.

"Victoria has always seemed to have have the worst epidemics in Australia, and I don't think we fully understand why that is," Professor Trauer said.

"In terms of infections, and then also now in terms of what we're seeing with deaths, that seems to follow that pattern as well."

He believes factors like seasonality, population density, connectedness or demographics could all be contributing to the trajectory of Victoria's outbreaks.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-...ales/100736476

[Giant Cranium]

I'm off to summernats this weekend, I'm pretty sure it will be a massive spreader event.

i cant see anyone in attendance or competing pulling out unless they are hospitalised.

so many "bogans' and people who have spent hundreds of thousands on their cars are not pulling the pin.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Yes I believe you. My family is all double vaccinated.

My daughter got covid -positive RAT and PCR Christmas eve.

Had to cancel a big family Christmas at our house and my wife and I isolated with Covid sick daughter at my house. When my daughter had complained about feeling sick and coughing leading up to Christmas eve I got a sore throat and had headaches and so got tested PCR- was negative.

After my daughter tested positive Christmas eve- my wife and I again got tested using both RATS and PCR some 5 days into quarantine-negative.

Came out of quarantine, daughter tested negative, and we had a big New Years eve family get together watching fireworks over Lake on balcony at my place. Big booze up- new years day my brother received a PCR -covid positive, so was my brother in law and niece- all who were at my place New Years eve.

So I again isolate and 3 January feel crook, coughing, night sweats and wake up at 3.30 am with heavy chest. Convinced I have covid, so my wife and I get PCR tested on 5 January- both negative.

All I know is that when I associate with covid people, get a bit crook for 1 day and night odd, but the RAT and PCR tests show negative- maybe psycho somatic (but I doubt that).

Buggered if I know- maybe I have had covid previously and/or the double vacced immunity causing a body reaction but immunity prevents virus taking hold- so little known about the virus in context of subjective individuals responses.

About 15 years ago I helped a girl who had a fall and cut her head, took her to hospital, wouldn't know her to a bar of soap, just doing a good deed, I went back later to see she was OK, the nurse asked me if I'd got blood on my skin or had any breaks in my skin?

I asked why?..she said I can't tell you, see your GP, I said for what, she said I can't tell you, privacy laws, that made me feel really good, it was a pretty ominous thing to tell someone.
Turns out she had Hep B and C, so the tests come back Hep B negative, I have immunity to it but Hep C positive?

I get a letter from Liverpool Health asking me to come in for a visit, so I go, and I felt fine by the way, they did more bloods, and next day phone me and tell me the tests were Hep C negative?
I asked about the first tests, they said it was a "false positive" and they happen all the time

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

I'm off to summernats this weekend, I'm pretty sure it will be a massive spreader event.

i cant see anyone in attendance or competing pulling out unless they are hospitalised.

so many "bogans' and people who have spent hundreds of thousands on their cars are not pulling the pin.

That's crazy, bordering on madness!...where did common-sense go.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

That's crazy, bordering on madness!...where did common-sense go.

Should be fine. Its outdoors. And event organisers will need to comply with their state rules. It'll be "covid safe". Only vaxxed can get in. Limited density etc etc.

Everyone said MCG test would be a superspreader.....its turned out fine. No worse than the virus naturally being spread now.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Victoria has fewer COVID-19 cases than New South Wales, so why are more people dying?

We might need to consider climate given that both Victoria and Tasmania are at the upper end of the numbers.

The whole of pandemic CMR for Victoria isn't the worst in the country at 0.602% because WA is 0.750%. The other States also vary widely from a low of 0.019% (Queensland) through 0.033% (SA), 0.102% (NT), 0.199% (NSW), 0.207% (ACT) up to 0.358% in Tasmania.

If we look at 2021 in isolation - without the fiasco we had in aged care during 2020 then the order is (noting that WA, Tasmania and the NT had zero deaths):

Queensland 0.016%; SA (0.040%); ACT (0.305%), NSW (0.341%) and Victoria 0.461% ... so that seems to support the argument.

Indeed, although Victoria had around 25k less cases than NSW, there were 105 more deaths in Victoria - or to put it another way, if NSW had the same CMR as Victoria, another 160 people would have died.

It looks worse thus far in 2022. The number of deaths are almost identical YTD yet Victoria has almost half the case numbers that NSW has recorded.

[russellw]

Australia
NSW records 34,994 cases in the current period and the 10-day average growth rate increases to 1.2269 (from 1.2259) while the actual line is still well above the predictive trend line.



VIC records 21,997 cases in the current period (another new record high) and the 10-day average growth rate increases to 1.2818 (from 1.2814) while the actual line remains above the predictive trend.



Queensland (6,781), SA (3,493), NT (110) and Tasmania (867) set new daily highs yesterday (4/1).
.. and here is the predictive trend graph for both NSW / Victoria based on cases since Omicron was identified which, for our purposes, will be taken as December 1st.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Should be fine. Its outdoors. And event organisers will need to comply with their state rules. It'll be "covid safe". Only vaxxed can get in. Limited density etc etc.

Everyone said MCG test would be a superspreader.....its turned out fine. No worse than the virus naturally being spread now.

We will know in a week or so T3, I think they fudge the stats by the way, keep em in the dark and feed em on bullsh.t attitude, it's been working well so far, but I hope everyone has a good time.

[arm79]

I would have thought the exemption was made under the second point.

Originally Posted by Pooka

[*] PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, where vaccination can be deferred until 6 months after the infection. Vaccination should be deferred for 90 days in people who have received anti-SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibody or convalescent plasma therapy.

It was well publicised he and his wife were diagnosed with covid. Right now it would be 2ish weeks shy of that 6 months. But it will be a different story by the time the tournament rolls around.

To me if he has a valid exemption then he is welcome in the country.

If there are any denials or refusal of entry then it's all done out of spite by the respective government, which is despicable in itself.

[xxx000]

Well he's been refused admission into Australia

[slowsnake]

He should change his name to "DjoCovid"......

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by russellw

We might need to consider climate given that both Victoria and Tasmania are at the upper end of the numbers.

The whole of pandemic CMR for Victoria isn't the worst in the country at 0.602% because WA is 0.750%. The other States also vary widely from a low of 0.019% (Queensland) through 0.033% (SA), 0.102% (NT), 0.199% (NSW), 0.207% (ACT) up to 0.358% in Tasmania.

If we look at 2021 in isolation - without the fiasco we had in aged care during 2020 then the order is (noting that WA, Tasmania and the NT had zero deaths):

Queensland 0.016%; SA (0.040%); ACT (0.305%), NSW (0.341%) and Victoria 0.461% ... so that seems to support the argument.

Indeed, although Victoria had around 25k less cases than NSW, there were 105 more deaths in Victoria - or to put it another way, if NSW had the same CMR as Victoria, another 160 people would have died.

It looks worse thus far in 2022. The number of deaths are almost identical YTD yet Victoria has almost half the case numbers that NSW has recorded.

Do you know if colder countries like Northern Europe have higher mortality rates than places closer to the equator?
I’ve seen some reports of it but the reports I’ve seen are pretty light on details

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Off topic but....

no matter which side of the fence you sit on re whether Novak should be allowed in to the country to play the Open or not, this whole thing is a farce and makes us aussies look like morons.

This whole saga will do more to put prospective visitors off visiting our shores in the future than any previous decision by the officialdom with respect to Novak's eligibility to enter the country.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT January 5th 2022.

65,228 new cases for Australia (a new record) and 20 deaths so the CMR is 0.374%.

NZ recorded 40 cases and 0 deaths for a CMR of 0.354%.

The UK recorded 193,284 cases and 343 deaths for a CMR of 1.079%.

681,563 new cases in the USA yesterday and 2,214 deaths sees CMR at 1.466%.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 297M, the last 2M in 1 day;
Global cases set a new record daily high with 2,364,076 recorded;
Europe sets a new daily high with 1,234,914 cases recorded;
North America sets a new daily high with 653,508 cases recorded on 4/1;
Africa sets a new daily high with 63,124 cases recorded on 4/1;
Africa passes 120M cases;
North America passes 69M cases;
Europe passes 92M cases;
The USA passes 58M cases;

Liberia (447);
Somalia (729);
Guyana (779);
Suriname (820);
Mauritania (1,149);
Aruba (1,162);
Cabo Verde (1,397);
French Guiana (1,734);
Luxembourg (2,131);
Kuwait (2,246) - the previous high (1,993) on 6/7/21;
Montenegro (2,805);
Dominican Republic (5,201);
Norway (8,385);
Croatia (8,587);
Bolivia (9,242);
Sweden (17,320) – the previous high (11,380) on 23/12/20;
Denmark (26,200);
Netherlands (24,490);
Portugal (39,570);
Canada (49,829) on 4/1;
Australia (65,228);
Turkey (66,467) – the previous high (63,082) on 16/4/21;
Argentina (95,159);
Italy (189,109);
France (332,352) – 60k more than yesterday; and
The USA (980,103)

... all recorded new highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

Serbia, Bosnia, Costa Rica and the Philippines move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period and no countries drop below

[russellw]

2020 v 2021
In 2020, over the 9 months that the pandemic really ran for there were 83.5M cases reported globally and 1.935M deaths for a CMR of 2.3064%.

In 2021, the year has seen 204.875M cases (+244%) and 3.506M deaths (+181%) for a CMR of 1.7117% - or roughly a 25% reduction in the global CMR. The difference in those CMR numbers resulted in 1,218,310 people not dying, largely due to the vaccination programs along with better treatment protocols.

In our little microcosm, the numbers are a bit starker given how bad the impact was of the aged-care debacle in 2020.

2020 saw 29,731 cases and 911 deaths for a CMR that was poor by global standards, of 3.064%. In 2021, we had 371,259 (12.5x more) cases and 1,323 deaths (1.45x more) for a much better than the global average CMR of 0.356% - that’s an 89% improvement in the CMR and it is even lower thus far in 2022 .

Just as well we didn't have the same CMR as 2020 because that would have resulted in another 11,376 deaths or >10x the number we actually had.

It’s not strictly relevant but we’ve already had 77% of the total case number for 2021 in the first 6 days of 2022 so we’ll pass that total in the next few days.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Do you know if colder countries like Northern Europe have higher mortality rates than places closer to the equator?
I’ve seen some reports of it but the reports I’ve seen are pretty light on details

It's largely been believed to be the case but one of the problems with being absolutely certain is finding countries near the equator with reliable reporting. Most of the countries the Equator passes through would be considered 'developing' at best but let's try and pick a few that aren't too far away.

South Africa has a whole of pandemic CMR that is fairly poor at 2.636%.
Brazil is worse at 2.772%.
Indonesia is worse again at 3.380% so on the basis of those three, you'd possibly have to call the 'climate' thing a myth.

However, the health systems in all of those countries are not as mature as those in some of the colder climate countries so I think the question remains open especially when there are some colder climate countries with very low CMR's like Norway (0.331%) and New Zealand (0.336%) while others have mid to high-range CMR's like Finland (0.601%), Switzerland (0.9640%) and Swden (1.161%).

[arm79]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

There's no such thing as a "valid" exemption, either you are double vaxxed or you're not

Ummm... Yes there is...

Originally Posted by slowsnake

who makes these damn rules

ATAGI. As Pooka posted the document is here:

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defa...9-vaccines.pdf

Originally Posted by slowsnake

seems the rules are different for you and me but there are more provisions for the rich and famous, so Rock astars, movie greats and sports people!

No, that is not the case.

We are acquainted with a family of restaurateurs through our own family. 2 of the brothers had Pfizer shots and quickly came down with one of the carditises. Doctors thought it was strange so they ran tests. Seems a number of family members were genetically predisposed to develop a carditis infection. So the remainder were told not to get the jab and were given exemptions until Novavax becomes available.

My neighbour has serious pre-existing cardiac conditions. There is a very real fear that any adverse reactions to an mRNA vaccine will cause problems so it was advised not to get the jab and wait for Novavax. But they cant get an exemption so are stuck in the great unwashed grouping.

You disagree with his attempt to circumvent what is the spirit and intention of the exemptions. I am on your side.

But if he is/was colouring inside the lines of the same exemptions available to you, me and every other Australian, then refuse on these grounds can only be take as political spite.

[Pooka]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

This whole saga will do more to put prospective visitors off visiting our shores in the future than any previous decision by the officialdom with respect to Novak's eligibility to enter the country.

In respect to Novax's eligibility to enter the country.. there has been much angst for weeks about Novax and if he would be getting an exemption. I'm now starting to feel that this may have been a PR stunt by the Fed's. The Fed's are the ones who gave him the exemption, not the VIC gov as many RWNJ are trying to blame.

The Fed's let Novax in on a dubious visa, then they deny him entry - as per PM's announcement this morning stating "Rules are rules and no one get's special treatment.", so that the Fed's look like the "good guys" doing what 90% of the population would agree with. This has more to to with pity politics than the Aus Open I think. Must be an election around the corner.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Off topic but....

no matter which side of the fence you sit on re whether Novak should be allowed in to the country to play the Open or not, this whole thing is a farce and makes us aussies look like morons.

This whole saga will do more to put prospective visitors off visiting our shores in the future than any previous decision by the officialdom with respect to Novak's eligibility to enter the country.

TBH in time people abroad won't give a stuff just as most of us once its passed over........
How many other countries people wouldn't visit on the account of Gov custom hurdles let alone how the country is ruled and its people yet toursits keep going......
Nothing like headlines, how many other people have had excemptions to date prior to him, plenty from media reports if true.
I get your POV but so many countries are laughing stocks but I'll still head there for hols let alone business.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Pooka

I'm now starting to feel that this may have been a PR stunt by the Fed's. The Fed's are the ones who gave him the exemption, not the VIC gov as many RWNJ are trying to blame.

Turns out he never had an exemption at all, nor the supporting paperwork to request one on arrival.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...347adfefb176a2

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by arm79

Turns out he never had an exemption at all, nor the supporting paperwork to request one on arrival.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...347adfefb176a2

Given it wasn't the Feds, I wonder who did tell him he was cleared for playing? Is is he just a goose?