Ford is Looking Back - XR8 - Page 6

FPV GTHO · 28-02-2012, 09:00 PM

I don't think it really solves the problem though. Firstly there is still no V8 competitor for SS which is what the fans want the most. Them there's still the issue of the SSV and GS attacking that area of the market from 2 different directions. IMO even if Ford had a $50k drive away XR8 tomorrow, someone would still be unhappy because Holden would be selling SS's for $43k as a deal

b2tf · 28-02-2012, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Your a smart kid!

As for Austin you should have kept the one you had sunny jim!

FG2 XR8 = FG2 GS :(

Maybe, much rather have the mortgage looking nice and healthy though

**Luke Plaizier** · 28-02-2012, 09:35 PM

Crikey. This incessant can't-do attitude is maddening.

I'd imagine the Holden boys are constantly going on about how there's no Turbo 6 to take on the XR6T. All they have at that price point is the SS after all.......you can't just up the boost with a flash tune on an SS..... those Ford boys have it so good with Forced induction on their 4's, 6's and 8's. Why can't we get Forced Induction on at least ONE of our Commodore models?

Just put 'No Stickers and Ford/XR8' Badges as a blinking tick box option on the GS order form fer heavens sake. Give the XR8 name one last glorious supercharged run to the finish line before the plant gets shut down for good without all this dumb dilly dallying about what it 'should' be. 'You guys' (not knowing who 'you' really refers to) have already killed any hopes of a GTHO revival with the same 'it should be' diatribe.

I tell you, your choice right now is either rebadging the GS, or having no XR8 AT ALL. Mull that over all of the 'it can't be dones' that have surfaced here.

Lukeyson

prydey · 28-02-2012, 10:17 PM

lukeyson, if you leave the price the same, then you may as well sell it as an FPV. pretty sure an FPV badge will sell better than a XR8 badge.

P6LTD351 · 28-02-2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

lukeyson, if you leave the price the same, then you may as well sell it as an FPV. pretty sure an FPV badge will sell better than a XR8 badge.

I disagree. XR8 goes back to Tickford. To me FPV hasn't been around long enough to really have as much pedigree. I know most will find this comment silly, but that's the way I feel.

Buntz · 28-02-2012, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I disagree. XR8 goes back to Tickford. To me FPV hasn't been around long enough to really have as much pedigree. I know most will find this comment silly, but that's the way I feel.

They have the Ford naming rights, and GS has longer pedigree than XR8.

They could just extend the boost on the tunes for the rest of the FPV range and offer a slightly cheaper than current price GS as XR8.

Now with FG2 is as good as any time to do it.

P6LTD351 · 28-02-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

They have the Ford naming rights, and GS has longer pedigree than XR8.

They could just extend the boost on the tunes for the rest of the FPV range and offer a slightly cheaper than current price GS as XR8.

Now with FG2 is as good as any time to do it.

I agree that GS has longer pedigree but FPV doesn't.
Btw, the GS was always known as the poor man's GT in the 70s. The XR8 was the top line V8 throughout the 90s (not including 92 and 97 GTs)

anto · 28-02-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyk54

No, it's topical, logical and informative. Anyone who says the XR6T is a boring drive without backing it up deserves critique.

You and your mate obviously have nothing to offer on topic short of this?? OK.

It is boring! fast..yes, exciting and fun ?....NO !!

The sensation is about as exciting as a sterile hospital ward

I miss my XR8

**Professor Farnsworth** · 29-02-2012, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

It is boring! fast..yes, exciting and fun ?....NO !!

The sensation is about as exciting as a sterile hospital ward

I miss my XR8

this man speaks the truth

the true measure of a car is not top speed, dyno figures, radar guided cruise control or 22 inch wheels, it's how it makes you feel when you drive it. To me and a lot of people i know, that feeling only comes from the character of a v8.

OZQUAD44 · 29-02-2012, 02:30 AM

I've actually enjoyed reading this thread, apart from the the pathetic bickering, as it has highlighted one thing for me. There is still a lot of passion for Ford and the XR brand. A brand Ford spent some time and effort to build up. It seems a shame to write all that off. (If it wasn't for the XR6 do you think the red team would ever have come out with the rip off SV6?)

The GS as a marketing exercise must have hit the right numbers on debut as it was extend to a permanent model, but it sounds like that concept is reaching a used by date. (Personally I really like the GS. I think it looks awesome and must be one of the performance buys of the decade, but for me I can't come at the lack of big brakes. In my mind the only drawback of the beast, I'm pretty sure the 302 GS had it as an option)

I think all those comments about rebranding a GS to an XR8 are probably on the money. I think a run out sale on the GS, and a big welcome back for the XR8 would be an easy sell for minimal outlay. (my personal view on the XR8 is that it should be marketed as a 302 KW N/A V8, but I think initial cost and future expansion will prevent that from ever happening but its nice to dream)

Bring Back the XR8 brand I say, Keep the GT, GT-P and GT-E for FPV.

LPi G8 anyone........ :-P

OZQUAD44 · 29-02-2012, 04:16 AM

Ah, just to correct my last post a little, I just wandered onto the FPV site and it seems "High Series" brakes are now fitted to the GS. Apart from rotor size, I'm not exactly sure what "High Series" Brakes means. But it looks like the GS Brakes have come under some attention, which is a good thing.

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-02-2012, 06:51 AM

LPi G8? Actually, that would be nice. LPi G8E certainly.

As for GS brakes....

The whole line reads "High series brakes (322mm front rotor with 303mm rear rotor)". So that's the 303mm solid disk rear from the base Falcon with the larger 322mm front rotor from the XR6T, up from 298mm std.

The BF XR6T/XR8 came out with the Territory brakes, 322mm fronts and 328mm ventilated rears. But they have obviously dropped back to the 303mm solid rears to save some money on the FG.

The next step up is the 4-spot brembo package on the GT and F6 - with 355mm rotors up front with 4-spot calipers, and 328mm single spots at the rear.

The top step is the full brembo on the GT-P, GT-E and F6-E - 6-spot 355mm up front, 4-spot 330mm rears (different rotor to the 328mm - and not compatible).

Hey, I think the GS still has some legs, and here's why.

Some people like being in FPV badges, seeing how many people whack FPV instrument clusters or stickers on their std Falcon, but you ultimately end up being the "bottom" car for that brand. If that's what you want that's fine.

But as an XR8 it would be the "top" performance model in the Ford range - no disrespect to the XR6T, which has been the "top" performance model now since it's introduction thanks to it's superior speed and handling - but supposedly inferior 'sound' and throttle response depending on who you talk to. So depending on whether you want to be at the "bottom" or the "top" of the model range, you'd have a choice.

The other thing that I'll mention, and it might have been brought up earlier, is that for as long as I can remember, it's been the 'XR8' that's been promoted as the vehicle 'used' in V8 Supercars. It's always been the bonnet-bulge model that's been used - when they jumped from BA/BF to FG they even contemplated running a non-bulge bonnet to improve aero, but chose to stick with the V8 factory model association. Now, I know there is nothing common between a V8S and the factory sedan other than the shape of the shell. But still, it's been years of marketting that is still in the mind of some of us V8S faithful.

FPR have been the only team to whack a little 'GT' on the front of the car. But as far as I can tell, there have been no attempts by anyone to market the GS as the car on which any V8S is based.....

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-02-2012, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

lukeyson, if you leave the price the same, then you may as well sell it as an FPV. pretty sure an FPV badge will sell better than a XR8 badge.

How about this. Release the GS badged as an XR8, since it would cost Ford nothing other than badges and perhaps some 'marketting', while keeping the GS on sale, and if the GS sells better, then you have the right to say "I told you so".

But if the TOTAL number of GS + XR8 sales actually increases vs GS only, since they are all effectively GS's anyway, then it's my turn to gloat.

We could even have the chance to gloat at the same time.

Sound fair?

Lukeyson

jpd80 · 29-02-2012, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

How about this. Release the GS badged as an XR8, since it would cost Ford nothing other than badges and perhaps some 'marketting', while keeping the GS on sale, and if the GS sells better, then you have the right to say "I told you so".

But if the TOTAL number of GS + XR8 sales actually increases vs GS only, since they are all effectively GS's anyway, then it's my turn to gloat.

We could even have the chance to gloat at the same time.

Sound fair?

Lukeyson

As I said earlier the GS is basically the XR8, release the XR8 and GS sales would suffer..that's the problem.

At the moment making 535 GS sedan and Ute and selling both for $10,000 more than XR8 and XR8 Ute,
the Return on Investment is close to $5.35 million more for the partners than selling the same number
of XR8 and to recover that $5.35 million, Ford would have to make and sell a bucket load more XR8s.
Therefore, selling limited numbers of cars at a higher price is the best course for this vehicle.

For those about go off the deep end and sarcastically infer that this applies to all Falcon lines,it doesn't
because protecting a niche product has to be handled completely to different to volume selling lines.

The other point is that competing with SS and Holden's frequent and aggressive discount pricing
means that an XR8 sedan and Ute would be forced into similar discounts so the ROI becomes even less....

Nikked · 29-02-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I disagree. XR8 goes back to Tickford. To me FPV hasn't been around long enough to really have as much pedigree. I know most will find this comment silly, but that's the way I feel.

FPV is Tickford.

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-02-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

As I said earlier the GS is basically the XR8, release the XR8 and GS sales would suffer..that's the problem.

You seem to be actively promoting in here to stop any sort of XR8 from ever being made again. There is no other financially viable way to bring an XR8 back to market other than a GS rebadge at the same RRP. And if the XR8 IS a GS with different badges, then the only way there'll be a problem is if the total number of GS+XR8 sales is less than that of GS alone.

2 negative Points countered - price and impact. DON'T sell the Xr8 for $10k RRP less than the GS, because that's where the XR6T lies. The SS can live there - it's not supercharged. Next you'll be telling me that the SS-V is RRP at $48k too.

But that wasn't another "Can't be done" post by any chance was it?

Lukeyson

aussie muscle · 29-02-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I'd imagine the Holden boys are constantly going on about how there's no Turbo 6 to take on the XR6T.

i haven't seen one, but there was a thread bemoaning no supercharger on the top of the line GTS (to compete with the GT).

prydey · 29-02-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

There is no other financially viable way to bring an XR8 back to market other than a GS rebadge at the same RRP.

i can't figure out how you think it will sell better though. the GS as it stands is selling better than XR8 was and its about $10k dearer. if it had ford and xr8 badges instead of fpv and gs badges, i have no doubt it wouldn't sell as well.

regardless of what has happened in the past, an FPV badged car has more appeal than a FORD badged one, end of story.

its like someone preferring holden badges instead of HSV. its just not going to happen.

i don't ever recall XR8 being promoted as a premium car. many people now look at the xr6 as a fleet hack. also, listen to what jpd80 is saying. put xr8 badges back on and suddenly you are back fighting with SS at low $40k. why would ford want that?

i can't believe all the discussion over a couple of badges.

MAGPIE · 29-02-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

regardless of what has happened in the past, an FPV badged car has more appeal than a FORD badged one, end of story.

i can't believe all the discussion over a couple of badges.

FPV has no appeal to me, I'd rather a XR8. The current GS is rubbish on the inside with the awful cloth seats etc.

I wanted a new XR8 (had a BF with Lux Pack) looked at the GS but for the money they are asking I was insulted by the povo interior, anyway I gave up waiting and bought a 2011 Mustang instead, yeah I have to sit on the wrong side to drive it, big deal at least it has a decent interior.

To me it's less about the badge and more about the fact the GS is just an XR6 with a admittedly great engine. It looks cheap, it feels cheap but it don't cost cheap.

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-02-2012, 09:26 AM

There is no proposed "XR8 instead of GS". There is only a proposed "XR8 as well as GS". I don't know why you are arguing against a point that is not proposed.

Secondly, your FPV vs FORD comment is an opinion. Appreciated I'll grant, but valid only for you and those who share it with you - not for everyone. And it is EXACTLY like someone preferring Holden - or Chevrolet - over HSV Bagdes. And no, I don't share that opinion, end of story sequel.

I do recall the XR8 being sold in BA, BAII and BF for $51K to $53K before onroad costs before the BFII plummet. Priced as it was as a premium over the XR6T at the time, if anything, the idea that is ISN'T premium is relatively new. But back then it had no forced induction and was slower than an XR6T - which wouldn't necessarily be the case now.

And no, I don't subscribe to the idea that an XR8 has to compete directly with an SS for the simple fact that a XR8 badged GS will have the supercharger.

Tell me, with a budget of nothing, what is your positive and contributory suggestion for bringing the XR8 back to the market - without falling into the trap of 'the XR8 should be...' or 'it can't be done...'

If it is, as you say, such a trivial discussion over badges, why are you arguing against it?

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-02-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

GS but for the money they are asking I was insulted by the povo interior, anyway I gave up waiting and bought a 2011 Mustang instead, yeah I have to sit on the wrong side to drive it, big deal at least it has a decent interior.

Er, is this in Australia? Because the last I heard you could only register an LHD if it was more than 25 years old in Australia. And the guys in Qld who RHD convert US imports generally charge you the cost of the car AGAIN to do the conversion.

That hardly seems like a viable alternative. But hey, despite the rest of the negativity, I appreciate the attempt at providing one positive comment.

Lukeyson

prydey · 29-02-2012, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Tell me, with a budget of nothing, what is your positive and contributory suggestion for bringing the XR8 back to the market

simple, the XR8 is available now and has been for some time. it just has FPV and GS badges on it!!

compare resales of FPV products compared to FORD products and then convince me someone will fork out $50k+ for one with XR8 badges rather than GS badges.

yes, they are my opinions. not having a go at anyone.

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-02-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

simple, the XR8 is available now and has been for some time. it just has FPV and GS badges on it!!

I agree with you completely. It's just a matter of having the right badges!

Lukeyson

prydey · 29-02-2012, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

FPV has no appeal to me, I'd rather a XR8. The current GS is rubbish on the inside with the awful cloth seats etc.

I wanted a new XR8 (had a BF with Lux Pack) looked at the GS but for the money they are asking I was insulted by the povo interior, anyway I gave up waiting and bought a 2011 Mustang instead, yeah I have to sit on the wrong side to drive it, big deal at least it has a decent interior.

To me it's less about the badge and more about the fact the GS is just an XR6 with a admittedly great engine. It looks cheap, it feels cheap but it don't cost cheap.

so what you are effectively saying is, because it is badged as a FPV you expect a lot more, but if it was badged as a XR8 you would be happy with it??

i had no idea a couple of badges could mess with ones head so much.

the price is not really up for discussion, as the GS is selling at its current price so obviously there are many people that are happy with it.

this may go a little against what i've been saying, but i don't think ford will drop the price and keep it in the FPV stable. that will just cheapen the brand too much. if they go down the path of reducing the price, then i think they will revert to selling it as a ford product.

**Polyal** · 29-02-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

from what i've heard, GS is selling in better numbers than FG XR8 was.

There is a very good explanation for that, the new 5.0. Its not rocket science why its selling better.

Look at 5.4 GT vs 5.0 GT...same freakin car sans engine. This market, and to a lesser extent the XR8/SS market is all about the engine. So people claiming the XR6T is its natural replacement are wrong.

Same goes for Ford theory on the Territory replacing the Falcon wagon...wrong again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

why do people continue to compare things with holden, when they are in just as big a financial mess. hardly a good business case to base yours on!!

That is true, but their mess is more than their product mix..it runs much deeper than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

I don't think ford seem that interested in a V8, as far as they are concerned, FPV have that market covered. Perhaps it was the fact that the BA was lumped with the 3V...who knows.

It would be interesting to see a N/A 5l cammer in the G and Xr series...

Again, just like the 5.4 4v the 3v was basically a POS (I dont care how many bolt ons and forced induction methods people stick on them to compensate).

Your right, Ford have access to the best and id say cheapest V8 they have ever produced and they are not touching it...why? To protect FPV in some way. Stuff FPV, Ford sales are far more important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

lukeyson, if you leave the price the same, then you may as well sell it as an FPV. pretty sure an FPV badge will sell better than a XR8 badge.

This I agree with, the price of the GS is not a problem, its a good car and worth mid 50's I guess. The fact is right now, in this climate people wont be so eager to pay that money for their V8 thrills when the SS is mid 40's or even less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

FPV has no appeal to me, I'd rather a XR8. The current GS is rubbish on the inside with the awful cloth seats etc.

I wanted a new XR8 (had a BF with Lux Pack) looked at the GS but for the money they are asking I was insulted by the povo interior, anyway I gave up waiting and bought a 2011 Mustang instead, yeah I have to sit on the wrong side to drive it, big deal at least it has a decent interior.

To me it's less about the badge and more about the fact the GS is just an XR6 with a admittedly great engine. It looks cheap, it feels cheap but it don't cost cheap.

Nicely done squire, I WANT YOUR ENGINE! If we could do want you guys could over there then Id imagine plenty of stangs getting about.

___________________

Lets look at the facts, Ford need to do everything IMO to explore whether or not the Falcon is going to work in the future. They have 4 years as of right now.

If they develop the Coyote for the Falcon then the work involved is NOTHING like what FPV/Ford did with Miami, nothing alike at all.

If the idea falls flat on its face then atleast FoA can look back and go, ah well, we gave it a crack, now we know for sure the Mondeo/Taurus thing is going to work. I mean why not go down with a fight? For once Ford grow some balls.

The Falcon having a V8 is what makes a Falcon. Otherwise you might aswell be buying a Mondeo/Taurus...oh hang on..BINGO....maybe thats why people saying the I6T is good enough are actually getting at.....I6T would be easily replaced by the ecoboost V6, so no worries...still no V8 though...

prydey · 29-02-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

The Falcon having a V8 is what makes a Falcon.

nope. v8 falcon sales have always been a fraction of total sales. for the majority, the falcon is a family car/tourer.

the minority (normally the ones that hang out on enthusiast forums) often like to think that they are being ignored but unfortunately, its about sales and profits.

**Polyal** · 29-02-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

nope. v8 falcon sales have always been a fraction of total sales. for the majority, the falcon is a family car/tourer.

the minority (normally the ones that hang out on enthusiast forums) often like to think that they are being ignored but unfortunately, its about sales and profits.

Again, a pretty obvious statement, Ford wouldnt be coming out with LPi, EB et al if they thought the V8 was the only way, I didnt say it needed it per se, but its what makes the Falcon different and set it apart historically. Otherwise just buy a mondeo.

I dont subscribe to this BS about modern people not wanting V8's etc. Even if Commodore owners have little choice between a V6 and a V8..they still buy V8's in droves. Its not the most economical for families is it? Look at AMG, nothing to do with Holden/Ford but they had record sales of their V8's last year IIRC...that thing doesnt exactly hug trees either.

Because you can start breaking down every facet of a Falcon and make it redundant pretty quick.

All this "logic", and it sounds like accountant logic, has nothing to do with V8's. They are an emotional purchase and as such dont give themselves into reasoning.

If it was all about economy and rationalization then why does the GT sell so well over the F6?

I will guarantee you that the same phenomenon will happen with the XR6T vs XR8.

Many loyal Ford V8 fans went to the I6T when it came out, partly because it was new but more so because it was just a better engine than the 5.4. Now Ford has a decent V8 again and guess whats happening..their coming back.

But a car for some, and this segment, is more than just a family transport. Its an expression of ones self, a form of release, a bit of pride, whatever you want to call it.

The way some are talking FoA will turn into Toyota pretty quick.

You work with a marketing department at all?

prydey · 29-02-2012, 10:07 AM

GT sells thanks to the GT badge.

up until recently its always been slower than F6 and yet still outsells it. then people argue the reason xr8 never sold well was because the engine was no good!! you can't have it both ways. GT was slower than its stablemate and slower than its cross town rival and yet it still outsold the F6.

xr8 was slower than its baby brother and slower than its cross town rival and apparently this is the reason for its demise??

it seems to me ford just can't take a trick with its so called fans.

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-02-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

If it was all about economy and rationalization then why does the GT sell so well over the F6?

I will guarantee you that the same phenomenon will happen with the XR6T vs XR8.

Many loyal Ford V8 fans went to the I6T when it came out, partly because it was new but more so because it was just a better engine than the 5.4. Now Ford has a decent V8 again and guess whats happening..their coming back.

Nicely put.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

XR8 was slower than its baby brother and slower than its cross town rival and apparently this is the reason for its demise??

Well, many would argue yes to that, but I do appreciate the irony. It was often written about - heavier, slower, uses more fuel. Despite that, there were still SOME that bought the XR8. That's more than none....

Lukeyson

MAGPIE · 29-02-2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

so what you are effectively saying is, because it is badged as a FPV you expect a lot more, but if it was badged as a XR8 you would be happy with it??

i had no idea a couple of badges could mess with ones head so much.

No what I said was...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

To me it's less about the badge and more about the fact the GS is just an XR6 with a admittedly great engine. It looks cheap, it feels cheap but it don't cost cheap.

The XR6 has become a rental/fleet car hack, an XR8 (and XR6T for that matter) should be a step up.