E85 vs THE REST!

[prasac]

Originally Posted by rednose

So Pras, are you saying that we dont need to worry too much about the inconsistency from the bowser?Tested the Flex at Moorebank yesterday and found it to be about 72%

May end up doing a United 85% tune and that way I can just switch between the 2 tunes

i think it depends on your tune n combo. still check it, we just may have been very lucky. i'd hate for someone to go out n lose an engine. it was more a comment on how resilient we found it in our car.

most people i know never tune E85 right on the edge anyway, there is no need to, even a little fat, mid 11 AFR's it makes the same power if not more.

we have a very safe tune it is 11.5-11.7 AFR down the track, if its off 5% here or there we aren't too fussed, i take 8% fuel out it goes to about 12.1 AFR.

video of the car going down the track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mnVSyD92vw

we noticed something was wrong in the burnout, the car didn't sound as crisp. we don't log FP so we had to rely on what the driver told us. amazingly even with 2 pumps out, only revving to 6200rpm it still ran a 9.5@142, at least we now know what it can run with 1 pump working

the United stuff is awesome, what i think saved us is that it has a higher ethanol content, it's more around 90% than E85. in the very near future we are going to just run E98 at the track. should pickup more torque and power.

we are even tossing around the idea of losing the intercooler and running it straight in, let the fuel cool it down. i think power may drop 30-50hp, if it does, back on the intercooler we don't make the big power that we can afford to lose 50hp.

[Giant]

Originally Posted by prasac

well the E85 has just shown a level of detonation protection i have never seen before. still using the United E85, we went out to the track a couple weeks back. new driver in the car has only driven it once before.

did some checking ran the car up on the dyno today, low fuel pressure 20psi. 2 of the 3 fuel pumps we had weren't working (bad wiring) so you can imagine we were pretty ****ed off as the driver said fuel pressure was fine which it couldn't have been.

i was checking the logs at the track i thought we were getting faulty readings but both fuel sensors showed the same AFR. so, we checked the plugs. funnily the plugs didnt show it was lean nor was there any signs of detonation. the AFR's on the 4 runs was between 14.7 and 16.5 we are amazed no damage has been done.

Damn your pretty lucky to get away those AFR's for 4 runs. I bet Joe was super happy with the driver. Talk about leaning on the car haha you leaned so hard you dropped back a bracket .

I had to explain to the wife and my mates not to fill up with flex / E85. This is got to start happening people just putting in the cheapest fuel and then wondering why the engine goes bang lol.

[blueoval]

The amount of storys I hear from the Caltex Eflex attendants, of people thinking they can just throw in the eflex without any modification is astounding.

I occasionally get the new attendants asking if my car has been modified for Eflex. It gets a bit long winded at times, but they are just doing their job. I've been using Eflex for 18months now.

On the pump handle, there is a big stop sign saying, not petrol or diesel. Surely people don't just pick up the pump and not read it.

[Giant]

LOL you still get cases of people putting petrol into a diesel or vs verus. Your giving people way to much credit!

[prasac]

people are silly might be why United put the fuel up to $1.36/L stop people from thinking its cheap gasoline and put it in.

[Giant]

Your driver is evidence lol.

[rickyros]

hey Paul, is C16 worth the dollar for numbers sake? Drum E85 seems good too.

[prasac]

Originally Posted by rickyros

hey Paul, is C16 worth the dollar for numbers sake? Drum E85 seems good too.

heya Ricky, C16 you won't pick up any power. we gained 50rwhp on the 2JZ changing from C16 to United E85 on the same boost.

Roo16 is good, it's more oxygenated, you will pickup a few more horsies but for the $'s its not really worth it. you buy 20L of Roo16, its $200+, get it tuned on that, say it takes 10 runs on the dyno to get it all tuned up and getting the most power you can. it's time to spend another $200+ for another drum

from what i have seen Roo16 is excellent with W2A intercoolers it makes the same or a little more than methanol. with A2A is less of a pickup.

if there was no drum E85, i'd begoing down to Rocket, getting a drum of VP M1 or M3 methanol, 200L is cheaper than a drum of E85. but, with methanol you can't drive on the street with it.

[Giant]

Can you mix VP M1 or M3 with 98 octane to make your blend safely?

[rickyros]

Thanks paul

[SSD-85]

Ive been flicking through this thread & I seem to be getting the impression that E85 has a longer storage life than "normal" petrol. Would I be correct in saying this?

[prasac]

Originally Posted by Giant

Can you mix VP M1 or M3 with 98 octane to make your blend safely?

yeah you can, they were actually doing it 20 years ago it was supposed to be the next E85, but, it wasn't economical enough.

Methanol is not legal on the street here in NSW, even though it is the cleanest of all fuels, because you can't see the flame when it's on fire it's not allowed to be used. though, mixing it with unleaded would probably create a visible flame. you might remember Indy 5 or so years back was a methanol fire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnDX4FpDAzQ was actually one not long ago at the track, not sure if you were that day, Pac's car caught on fire, none of the WSID staff saw it, Po Tung (GAS Motorsports) must have seen the heat vapors ran over and started putting the fire out.

Originally Posted by rickyros

Thanks paul

sweet as mate.

Originally Posted by Scotty85

Ive been flicking through this thread & I seem to be getting the impression that E85 has a longer storage life than "normal" petrol. Would I be correct in saying this?

yeah it does.

some guys i spoke to in the US have ''proved'' (we have never tested it) that over time the gasoline evaporates thru vapours and leaves the ethanol content higher. so over time E85 could turn to E88 we have a drum sitting in the corner for 6 months or so to try it. i have seen a fluctuation of 1% from some of the older stuff we had, but, that could be from anything.

[Giant]

What about this? Tolunene mix at 25% tolunene and 75% BP 98 Test. Calculated octane RON is 104

Anyone tested this stuff and is safe or just a myth?

[prasac]

Originally Posted by Giant

What about this? Tolunene mix at 25% tolunene and 75% BP 98 Test. Calculated octane RON is 104

Anyone tested this stuff and is safe or just a myth?

seriously, just get E85, you're going to do your head in thinking about fuel mixes. toluene was big back 10 years ago, back when AVGas was the fuel of choice as well

not only will E85 produce better results, it's cheaper, higher RON (108) and has many more benefits which far outweigh the use of a Toluene/BP98 mix.

[Giant]

Happens when you start racing at 34 years old lots to learn and catch up on. Cheers big ears.

[graham_h]

just wish they'd change the damn laws so I can grow my own

[prasac]

Originally Posted by Giant

Happens when you start racing at 34 years old lots to learn and catch up on. Cheers big ears.

i was the same, get as much knowledge as you can and try and think of different things. but, sometimes the easiest simplest answer is the best. thinking too much not only does your head in but makes you second guess yourself.

i was always told to race with my wallet (what i can afford) i think the saying can go to brains also, race with what you know, E85 is proven, you start playing around with things you don't know etc, it can start costing you

[Buttnekid]

ig only old Wait Awhile would catch on, we still cant get the damn stuff without paying $3 a litre

[63futura]

Originally Posted by Buttnekid

ig only old Wait Awhile would catch on, we still cant get the damn stuff without paying $3 a litre

Tell me about it
The minute its at the bowser im switching over to it

[prasac]

last time we filled the drum up at United, it had gone from $1.16 to a $1.35

we got a few barrels of E98 for cheap, we are going to have a play around with E98 it's a little harder to start the car with, but, the benefits far outweigh the bad.

after we have a few hitouts thinking bout doing a 30psi E98 tune on our drag car, just to see how far we can take it. no intercooler just straight E98, same as you would do with methanol.

[Giant]

Maybe you could use a small second tank with E85 to start the car then switch to the main tank running E98.

I would go straight to E85 just a matter of money for the injectors and tune and fuel pump upgrade. Also sucks that the xCal doesnt let me adjust the tune myself if its winter or summer blend etc.

[prasac]

Originally Posted by Giant

Maybe you could use a small second tank with E85 to start the car then switch to the main tank running E98.

I would go straight to E85 just a matter of money for the injectors and tune and fuel pump upgrade. Also sucks that the xCal doesnt let me adjust the tune myself if its winter or summer blend etc.

even in Winter the E85 is pretty bad to start, we spray a bit of 'start ya bastard' in the charge pipe or in the turbo's and she cranks over straight away.

we used to spray it directly into the manifold, had a backfire and the thing bent the throttle body a lil bit. all good now, you need to make sure you have a good throttle body like this one, might be a bit hard to see in this pic

[Giant]

Just ordered a pair.... I like the grease nipples

[Giant]

I made my own 10% blend with 98 octane works good. How far can I push the stock setup I recon 20% would pretty much max out the injectors with the current NA regulator.

Yeah I know just go E85 I will I will.

[prasac]

Originally Posted by Giant

I made my own 10% blend with 98 octane works good. How far can I push the stock setup I recon 20% would pretty much max out the injectors with the current NA regulator.

Yeah I know just go E85 I will I will.

not sure on yours, i think we worked out 30% on my Aurion we would start running lean and out of injector. bad thing is you can't get into the ECU and have a fiddle.

love to throw a couple of turbo's on my Aurion and run it on E85, i was reading about a TT 2GR-FE engine in a buggy producing 600kw@18psi that is ridiculous, 485kw@10psi in race trim those are engine figures.

[graham_h]

In case anyone is interested E85 is available at United Warwick

[prasac]

United @ Drummoyne and Dee Why also have E85 now.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Found a place in Adelaide(Scotchers)that sells the V8 Supercar fuel for $2 a litre from a bowser,located in Wingfield.

[xr6t_ute]

I have tried E98 on my Ba,xr6t ute, and found that it coughed and spluttered through the whole rev range on the dyno, lambda was 0.74 and even, tried pulling the gaps down on the plugs and still did it...so canned the idea and went back to E85.
I can only put it to not enough spark on the std system, whats your thoughts?

[prasac]

Originally Posted by xr6t_ute

I have tried E98 on my Ba,xr6t ute, and found that it coughed and spluttered through the whole rev range on the dyno, lambda was 0.74 and even, tried pulling the gaps down on the plugs and still did it...so canned the idea and went back to E85.
I can only put it to not enough spark on the std system, whats your thoughts?

how much boost and what were the plugs gapped at? what plug/heat range are you running? did you try leaning it out a bit? if you were getting 0.74 Lambda that is around 10.8 AFR, that is very fat. try leaning it out to around 0.83 (12.2 AFR) depending on how much boost you are pumping in, the spark should be fine if it's not too fat. i think it was a bit too rich.